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Nest Learning Thermostat reportedly taken off Apple Store shelves - Page 2

post #41 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosebreath View Post

draconian means to set death as a punishment for even the most minor infractions of law. they removed items from their shelves.
 

 1. Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Draco, archon at Athens in 621 b.c., or the severe code of laws said to have been established by him; rigorous, harsh, severe, cruel.

 

while 'death' was the most severe and probably(?) the most common, it is quite normal to use the term to describe overly harsh tactics.  In some cases, Apple rejecting something could lead to the actual 'death' of a product just by swaying consumers notions of the product. Your 'it can only be used literally' notion does not hold up.

post #42 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I'm very concerned this may be the result of draconian Apple store policies.

 

Hear that folks? Now a retailer that has the audacity to choose what to stock in its own physical retail stores is the definition of 'draconian'. Incredible how something thats the norm is suddenly twisted into scary language when it comes to Apple. 

post #43 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtinc View Post

Sorry a $250 thermostat? No matter how "cool" it's still a programmable thermostat. My top of the line wired thermo controls fans, heat, cooling programmable for each of seven days? I mean, come on now. Is this a real product with a real need excepting those that need a non-Apple Apple product?
As far as I can tell there are two ways to look at it, setting aside luxury benefits:

If you don't effectively program your programmable thermostat it will pay for itself in short order. Easily.

If you do effectively program your home thermostat, and have a home thermostat decent enough to program effectively around a schedule, you may not save a whole lot more with the nest. Technically you should be able to save more if you wanted simply from scheduling because the nest provides such amazing control over programming, but it would definitely take a good amount of time to pay for itself. The exception would be if your home is empty with some degree of regularity you can't program around, and you don't turn off your thermostat when you leave (frequently annoying on some more sophisticated thermostats) you have found another avenue through which the nest can pay for itself in a decent period of time.

And then there are luxury features. The nest is incredibly easy and enjoyable to work with, whether programming or adjusting your schedule, viewing history, or simply setting it to away. The wireless controls through the app are also absolutely fantastic. It is easy to program and change settings, and also nice to set it away as you leave (or manage while on vacation), or to have it start warming while on your way home on a cold winter's day. In these regards it has luxury value which does not translate directly into money saved.

So not necessarily for everyone.
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post #44 of 226
This is most probably got to do with those who bought the item are idiots and contacted Apple to help them get them working instead of phoning the manufacturer. Sure it can be controlled by iOS devices but this is not an exclusive app-enabled product. It goes with and operating with other products in a system that a DIY store have better place for it rather than an Apple store.
post #45 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by super8sean View Post

Wow this dude is paranoid. Only the router gives off a wireless signal. Everything else receives it. You get more radiation per by going through the checkpoints at a airport.

Wait, you mean this MacBook Pro I'm typing on only receives WiFi? Then how am I uploading this post? I knew it was all voodoo magic!!!

post #46 of 226
Could this be due to Honeywell's patent claim against Nest?

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post #47 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post

It might looook cool, but it's just more wireless junk unnecessarily radiating your brain in your own home ... I need it like a tumour. No wireless in my house.

A little tinfoil shaped into a cloche hat will take care of your concerns nicely.
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post #48 of 226

Nice guess Soli! Apple is fairly quick to pull product apps that have any IP challenges. I would imagine they have the same attitude towards 3rd party products sold within their stores. 

melior diabolus quem scies
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post #49 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Could this be due to Honeywell's patent claim against Nest?

I'd wager no.  First Apple is the honey badger of patent claims, and second it wasn't removed from the online Apple Store.

post #50 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by super8sean View Post

Wow this dude is paranoid. Only the router gives off a wireless signal. Everything else receives it.
So devices using wifi don't send stuff to the router?
And even if the device is not a transmitter, if it uses electricity, it radiates some type/amount of signal.
post #51 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Some people do, and they probably will be proven right in 30 years or so...
You know, 30 years ago, it was impossible that  plastics could have any effect on human health. It was absurd to even suggest it. Where are we now? Same situation.

I'm guessing you dozed off during that logic class when fallacies were being covered.
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post #52 of 226

I have three.  I also purchase an additional three thermostats for some of my clients and they are all EXTREMELY pleased.  The auto away, app, reporting features are well worth the price. $250 for a device like this is reasonable, but not everyone needs a thermostat like this. Like a smart phone, not everyone needs one, yet. If you have a home with multiple mechanical systems, multiple floors, a second home, small office... it has cut my energy usage by about 15% over the past year in both my home and office. 

 

It will drop in price, but it is a really great product and fills a need for a device like this in a sea of other really crappy products.

 

They are worth it in some situations but not for everyone until the price drops.

post #53 of 226
Why has this thread been hijacked by Wi-Fi conspiracy theorists?

Not one person claiming to be capable of feeling or being affected by Wi-Fi has ever been able to prove it in testing. Laugh in your neighbor's face if he comes to you and tells you to shut off your Wi-Fi.

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I don't think this has happened due to 'overextension' or what have you. The two ideas I buy are the Honeywell lawsuit and morons coming to Apple for tech support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkWagner View Post

I suggest this may be as simple realizing the real estate (space) in an Apple store is very valuable and should be allocated to products with high demand and turnover.

That's not the case. Case in point, cases. And printers, backpacks, hard drives, etc.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #54 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkingclassic View Post

This was one of the many reasons I've seen in reading reviews online from various sources why the Nest is an iffy purchase.  It seems to have some bugs (either with the device or the user themself) that need to be worked out despite its ease of install and use.

Sometimes it can be as simple as which brand of hvac equipment you have.
When i wired up a new programmable stat it wasn't hard but....most heat pumps use a certain wire color for each function. I get about halfway through when I find out Rheem/Ruud banded ones use a few different colors depending what year they were made. Luckily I have this neat thing called Google that pointed me to the right direction as to which color went with what terminal on the tstat. Little things like that can screw up what should otherwise be an easy instillation. Maybe Apple got to many calls asking for help. Supporting a tstat installation has got to be easier than supporting Windows installs but still...
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post #55 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Purchased a Nest thermostat but had to return it because I couldn't get it to work properly with my building's HVAC system. It would either blow hot air or lukewarm air but never cold, even after changing the wiring five times per the advice of their phone support team. The product is slick and comes with clear instructions and great phone support, but it just didn't work for me, and I live in a 3 year old building so it's not a matter of dealing with outdated technology.

Perhaps the Nest isn't as widely compatible as originally thought and Apple had to take it off the shelves after receiving complaints? I always wondered if the limited availability of the Nest enabled the company to keep complaints out of the public eye...

Nest offers free installation within 72 hours of delivery/purchase. There was a card with a number in the box. Did you ask them to come out?
post #56 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCGOO View Post

If I was going to guess,  I imagine it has to do with the standard return policy in the stores, and how they could even begin to test the device upon return.  It is a great product IMO (I have two of them). But it would be very difficult for the in-store staff (geniuses) to deal with the plethora of installation related questions.  Think of how difficult it would be just to train the floor staff how to answer basic questions about the device. The questionnaire and installation instructions on the nest.com website are vastly superior. No disrespect to anyone, but HVAC is not what they are there to do.  

I was a bit suprised hearing it would be available in the Apple stores. It probably detracted from the "retail experience"

Agree...
We love out Nest, but it just seems an odd fit for the Apple store. The app connection doesn't really make it that integrated to apple... You can run it just fine without an app... Physically or via web. And it brings up a lot of wiring questions tha Apple may not want to deal with.
post #57 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Well I love domotics but a $250 thermostat is just a ridiculous price to start with...

 

Maybe you haven't bought a thermostat in a while, but it's actually only slightly higher than the average semi-decent thermostat of the same type.  

 

For the extra money it looks a whole lot nicer and works a whole lot better.  

post #58 of 226

Just buy one at Lowes if you want one.

post #59 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Could this be due to Honeywell's patent claim against Nest?

 

I doubt it.  That claim is simply because the Nest is round.  Honeywell claims they own the "round" shape

post #60 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Some people do, and they probably will be proven right in 30 years or so...

You know, 30 years ago, it was impossible that  plastics could have any effect on human health. It was absurd to even suggest it. Where are we now? Same situation.

 

It's clear you are a loonie, but aside from that your statement about plastics is completely made up.  

 

You are confabulating recent public opinion (many people being surprised or unaware of the fact that plastic is bad for you), with scientific or public opinion at the time of it's introduction.  You also can't just go back in history and say "everyone at this time thought this," or words to that effect.  Its unreasonable.  

 

It wasn't absurd to suggest at the time that plastics were bad for you.  Common sense alone dictated that whatever you eat off of, you are also eating in small amounts, and that the result of eating even small amounts of various plastics were unknown at the time.  Lots of people raised a lot of concerns at the time, but we live in a society dominated by industry and under capitalist rule so they were over-ruled and out advertised.  

post #61 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Good point.
Just curious... do Apple geniuses have to answer questions about other non-Apple stuff?
Apple Stores carry all sorts of speaker docks and other gadgets and gizmos.

 

 

But do they  support them?  They sold me a pair of Skull Candy headphones that broke.  They had a lifetime warranty.  They wouldn't do anything for me except to give me an  800 number for Skull Candy.

 

I went to Best Buy, with no receipt, and they were replaced with no questions asked.

post #62 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Could this be due to Honeywell's patent claim against Nest?

 

 

Seems unlikely given that Apple still sells the product.

post #63 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post


Seems unlikely given that Apple still sells the product.

I understand what you and others are getting at but I've seen odd removable of items from one store front but not another in relation to legal issues. So do you and others think is the most likely reason they have removed it from the B&M stores but not the online stores?

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post #64 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawspud View Post

Did you even read that dictionary entry, or are you just an arbitrary contrarian that expects people to accept your assertions without actually checking your sources (or, say, reality)?

 

I did in fact read it, and one of the definitions is cruel or overly harsh punishment. Nowhere in modern lexicon or comparison to unhappy consumers or people does the punishment of death ever come up. It's always used to describe something as an overly harsh punishment or system when not needed. Are you someone who doesn't pay attention to the world around them? I know what the word means, and it's never used as the original poster I replied to said it did, it's always used as the second definition.

 

Open your eyes before you open your mouth moron.

post #65 of 226
Quote:
Sorry a $250 thermostat? No matter how "cool" it's still a programmable thermostat. My top of the line wired thermo controls fans, heat, cooling programmable for each of seven days? I mean, come on now. Is this a real product with a real need excepting those that need a non-Apple Apple product?

 

Not just programmable, it's a "learning" thermostat.  It can learn when you are home and when you are away.  It is also remote controllable from your iOS device which is convenient for those who have home automation in their home.  It also gives you a monthly report on your usage.  So it IS a "real product" and some people have a "real need" for it.  We bought one just for these purposes; because it just works.  I paid $250 for it because it's worth it.  The same reason I paid $179 for an Airport Extreme when I could have just bought any multitude of wireless routers for under $100.

post #66 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

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That's not the case. Case in point, cases. And printers, backpacks, hard drives, etc.

Way different.  All of those mentioned are no-brainers that everyone needs, except backpacks which students may need.  You don't have to sell them, they all sell themselves if they're presented well on the floor.  People know why they'd need one.  Buy an Apple laptop and you know you need all of those while you're there.  The Nest?  It may be a programmable/learning device, but it's like a programmable barbecue or a learning refrigerator.  Might be great but a VERY small group of people in an Apple store are even potential candidates much less good bets.  If you're in an urban area with a large renting population, or if the homeowners are mostly in one bedroom condos in high rises, it gets ignored.  All students, minors, anyone who isn't running the household, they ignore it once they see what it is.

 

Shelf space in a place like NYC is so much more valuable than in a suburban mall.  I can certainly imagine the Nest being seen by Apple Store managers here as not being worth the shelf space to display.

post #67 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Some people do, and they probably will be proven right in 30 years or so...

You know, 30 years ago, it was impossible that  plastics could have any effect on human health. It was absurd to even suggest it. Where are we now? Same situation.

Straw man much?

post #68 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post

It might looook cool, but it's just more wireless junk unnecessarily radiating your brain in your own home ... I need it like a tumour. No wireless in my house.


Wat.

post #69 of 226

What "Faces" is to iPhoto, or "Smart Playlists" is to iTunes; "Nest" is to home climate control.

Not surprised at Apple carrying this product at all.

post #70 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I understand what you and others are getting at but I've seen odd removable of items from one store front but not another in relation to legal issues. So do you and others think is the most likely reason they have removed it from the B&M stores but not the online stores?

 

 

I can tell you what I think, but it diesn't really matter because it is a guess based upon scant evidence, and would be one of many equally plausible reasons. I can't tell you anybody else's reasons.

 

The support issues might be a factor.  The shelf space issue might be a factor.  Maybe Apple gets paid for shelf space, like supermarkets do, and the sales didn't justify the cost for the manufacturer?  Or some combination of factors we can imagine and others we know nothing about?

 

But the patent issue seems to me to be unlikely, given that Apple still sells the product. 

post #71 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post

It might looook cool, but it's just more wireless junk unnecessarily radiating your brain in your own home ... I need it like a tumour. No wireless in my house.

I bet you have one of these.

post #72 of 226

tin-foil-hat.jpg

 

There are some real sick people in this thread. Get help pronto.

post #73 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtinc View Post

Sorry a $250 thermostat? No matter how "cool" it's still a programmable thermostat. My top of the line wired thermo controls fans, heat, cooling programmable for each of seven days? I mean, come on now. Is this a real product with a real need excepting those that need a non-Apple Apple product?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergsf View Post

 

Not just programmable, it's a "learning" thermostat.  It can learn when you are home and when you are away.  It is also remote controllable from your iOS device which is convenient for those who have home automation in their home.  It also gives you a monthly report on your usage.  So it IS a "real product" and some people have a "real need" for it.  We bought one just for these purposes; because it just works.  I paid $250 for it because it's worth it.  The same reason I paid $179 for an Airport Extreme when I could have just bought any multitude of wireless routers for under $100.

It also has some outside the box thinking as well.  The Airwave feature that extracts otherwise wasted cold energy from the condenser coils is pretty genius. The Nest also gets OS updates from Nest which they use to add features.  They have already done this twice in the relatively short life of the product.  My wife and I have erratic, unpredictable schedules and the Nest deals with that beautifully.  It's particularly nice to turn on the AC a few minutes before I get home so the house is not 85 degrees. Plus it replaced a wireless programmable thermostat that cost more than $250 so the price argument people are making is weak.


Edited by WelshDog - 6/23/12 at 11:53am
post #74 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

I'm very concerned this may be the result of draconian Apple store policies.

If that was this issue they would have never stocked them in the first place

This is most likely due to the same reason they pulled the Pogo off the floor -- shoplifting.

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(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #75 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Good point.
Just curious... do Apple geniuses have to answer questions about other non-Apple stuff?
Apple Stores carry all sorts of speaker docks and other gadgets and gizmos.

They emphatically do NOT have to. But that doesn't mean folks don't ask and think they should support everything that even works with something Apple

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post #76 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post

It might looook cool, but it's just more wireless junk unnecessarily radiating your brain in your own home ... I need it like a tumour. No wireless in my house.

Don't worry. Apple Store will be using the extra shelf space to stock tinfoil helmets as of next week. Heralding a new line of products that cater to alternate customer segments. The Apple Store in Waco will be first to stock this new line of apparel along with metalic radio-wave screening paint that should further reduce the risk of tumors from a scientifically supported value of zero.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones
post #77 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wozwoz View Post

It might looook cool, but it's just more wireless junk unnecessarily radiating your brain in your own home ... I need it like a tumour. No wireless in my house.


Smart thinking about playing it safe.  Heaven forbid that natural solar radiation, or uranium that is naturally present in your granite kitchen countertops or any granite structures, or radio waves, or EMF from your house wiring won't give you that tumor first.

Maybe you just need a thicker tinfoil hat??


Edited by sflocal - 6/23/12 at 4:56pm
post #78 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdx View Post

 

You know TV, radio and this new fangled thing called mobile phones are also wireless. They're also a lot stronger. 

 

FM radio: 100,000 W

3G: 2W

WiFi: 0.2W

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm

 

Alas, you are rather confused. No-one has an FM radio transmission mast in their house ... they just receive radio. And it is well-known that living next to a radio tower is bad news, and highly correlated with cancer clusters. If you live just a km away from a mast, you are usually fine ... by the inverse square power law. Same for a mobile phone ... keep it a metre or 2 away from your head, and you will be fine ... even though it has to transmit the signal all the way back to the base station which might be a few km away.

 

And no ... I don't use wireless at home  (I get headaches from them) ... I've got Cat 6 ethernet wired throughout  ... and I do try to avoid mobile phones if possible (they also give me headaches ... or suggest use a Moshi to keep the phone away from your body, or use an external antennae in the car).

 

You are, of course, free to nuke your testes or your brain, as you please. Life is full of choices.

post #79 of 226

The Nest thermostat looks cool but I ain't paying all that money for that bull****!

It's a money grubbing tech gimmick and when Nest goes bankrupt in a few years who the hell is going to support that thing? The same folks supporting the old Newton tablets? 

post #80 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

The Nest thermostat looks cool but I ain't paying all that money for that bull****!

It's a money grubbing tech gimmick and when Nest goes bankrupt in a few years who the hell is going to support that thing? The same folks supporting the old Newton tablets? 

Ha! And where are those people who originally supported the Newton, today? Who is it who makes whatever device those people use today? People who think things "look cool" are simply too full of bull**** to know any better. They've got the depth and insight of a blank sheet of paper.

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