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NYT profiles Apple's retail stores, says employees are 'short on pay' - Page 3

post #81 of 129
If only you all knew.....bites tongue...
post #82 of 129
When you work for a company you are invested In the company and one should benefit from that.
post #83 of 129

Apple is a good company to work for. The media just likes to amplify everything out of proportion.Human nature can never be satisfied.
 

post #84 of 129
What I will say is that newspapers in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
post #85 of 129

I was at a One to One workshop the other day and ended up talking with the instructor.  He said he has been with Apple for over 5 years and loves it.  He also talked freely about the opportunity he had to purchase Apple stock at a 10 to 15% discount, which he has been doing, and also the great health care plan and 401K plan that Apple offered to employees.  Sounds like the total compensation package is pretty good.  Particularly for retail folks.

 

As far as sales/retail store employee, the numbers are amazing as are the inventory turn over numbers and outstanding accounts receivable numbers and sales/square foot numbers.  IMO it all goes to a combination of great products, great management, great employees and the team spirit.  I don't think you can put your finger on any one particular piece of the equation and give all the credit to that single element.  

 

Thank you SJ wherever you are!  You made life better.

post #86 of 129

i lost all respect for the nyt after they let bush off the hook. talk about a bunch of pussies.

 

nyt is nothing but a glorified national enquirer.

post #87 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

i lost all respect for the nyt after they let bush off the hook. talk about a bunch of pussies.

 

nyt is nothing but a glorified national enquirer.


+1

post #88 of 129

Apple's retail stores supply 30,000 entry-level employment opportunities, primarily for America's youth. The pay is "commensurate with responsibility" and includes excellent benefits. What value does the New York Times bring to this country?

post #89 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post

Apple's retail stores supply 30,000 entry-level employment opportunities, primarily for America's youth. The pay is "commensurate with responsibility" and includes excellent benefits. What value does the New York Times bring to this country?

10 million bird cages couldn't do without it.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #90 of 129

Here in Austin where we have two Apple stores there is a mile long line of people wanting to

work at one of the retail stores. My next door neighbor's son worked at one of them. He **loved

working there (Barton Creek Mall) and according to him everybody did. Whenever I go to

either retail store in Austin the feel of the place seems like employees are very glad to be

there.

 

I was an Apple employee in Education sales for eight years and know first hand the wonderful

benefits employees get. Something that should be pointed out in this thread is the employee stock

purchase plan. Every 6 months Apple employees have the option of enrolling (or not). It's a no

brainer and if a person doesn't take advantage of it then that's their choice. There is absolutely

no reason for Apple to pay people a high premium just because the company is making record

profits. It's not a charity it's a company that has to answer to stock holders that expect to

hopefully get a gain on the investment they make.

post #91 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

When you work for a company you are invested In the company and one should benefit from that.

Well said. Just because they don't have stock does not mean the average employee should not get some benefit other than market rate employment. It looks like Apple is 'recently' addressing that commensurate with their success... Good for Apple. Steve Jobs probably would not be happy with this. He agreed with most of the ops here.., employees other than the 'A' players are just commodities. I understand that thinking, just do not totally agree.
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post #92 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Well said. Just because they don't have stock does not mean the average employee should not get some benefit other than market rate employment. It looks like Apple is 'recently' addressing that commensurate with their success... Good for Apple. Steve Jobs probably would not be happy with this. He agreed with most of the ops here.., employees other than the 'A' players are just commodities. I understand that thinking, just do not totally agree.

By what right should employees get some benefit other than employment? And who defines what is sufficient?

The only reasonable way to define it is to let the market decide what a job is worth. Apple does that - and also offers very attractive benefits on top of that. What gives you the right to demand that they take money away from their shareholders and give it to their employees?

Furthermore, where do you draw the line? Should they also pay their lawyers more than the market rate because they have lots of money? Maybe they should pay Foxconn an extra 20% just because they have lots of money. Or maybe add a 10% bonus to their taxes.

In the end, it's a negotiated agreement between Apple and the employees and everyone else should keep their noses out of it (other than if they were violating the law, of course). Apple pays what they need to pay to get the employees they want. If they want better employees, they pay more (or offer improved benefits). If the employee thinks they're not paying enough, then don't take the job.
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post #93 of 129

Uh . . . it's RETAIL. 

 

Am I missing something here?

post #94 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


10 million bird cages couldn't do without it.

 

This post made my day.  lol.gif

post #95 of 129

Oh really. The stock holders at Apple sit around and don't do jack sh** but the top stock holders are raking in the cash while sitting at home drinking a martini.

The retail staff should be paid more because they are the public face of the company.

post #96 of 129

Thanks for putting that troll in his place. Apple has some  the best products on the market that fu***** work as advertised. 

One critic even believed that Apple made their stuff too good. 

Hell, just look at the refresh rate of their products. Once a year or more for a major redesign? That is unheard of. But the nasty pc guys have to drop new shi*every week because they are under pressure form M$ to get new machines out so a fresh batch of licensing money can drop into their bank account.

post #97 of 129

The NYT are a bunch of whiny b1tches. Are the workers getting more than minimum wage? yes. So it's still retail. who cares if Apple has large profits. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to swipe a credit card and give the customer a product. The Geniuses should be paid higher than retail but are they competitive with say the Geek Squad or those support folks at big box retail?. If they don't like their pay, quit and find another job. I hear MS is higher for their stores.

 

The Grey Lady needs to get off her high horse and realize Apple created 30000+ retail jobs worldwide in 10 years.

post #98 of 129

The dumbest thing in the article is the comparison to AT&T and Verizon stores. The salespeople make a lot of commission in those stores because they're paid by the manufacturers to lie to customers. If you go to an Apple Store, you at least know they're going to be biased. If you go to an AT&T or Verizon store, you might be under the illusion that they're going to recommend something based on merit, when in fact the staff is being paid to recommend a particular product by the manufacturer (or by Microsoft in the case of WP7 phones). The stores are even set up so you have to go through the staff instead of being free to make your own decision for this very reason. The whole thing is an exercise in misleading the customer.

post #99 of 129

Don't you just love freedom of speech? It's great to live in America where the opportunities are limitless. I am retired now, but 39 years ago I bagged groceries and delivered them to customers' vehicles for tips. My goal was to accomplish at least 4 carryouts per hour and earn at least 50 cents per tip. Access to this job was first-come, first-serve. You had to "sign up" each day at 6:00 a.m. for the chance to be 1 of 35 baggers. On evenings prior to the workday, some prospects would "camp out" to secure their place in line, as well as the privilege of earning about $2/hour. Sometimes, you could make $20 in a day, put gas in your tank at 30 cents a gallon (if you even had a car), and go to the gym and shoot some hoops. At night, I would ride my bicycle to the local sports bar, toss a few, play some pool or foosball, then meander home. I can still picture the faces of coworkers to this day--laughing, joking, smiling. It was the best of times, but I knew that I could do better and eventually did.

 

Good luck to all those who are employed the Apple Store or elsewhere in America. If you're still there, that's your decision. If young, you are gaining experience and learning responsibility. If older, I'm sure you have interesting stories to tell. We all have choices to make and that's what is really great about freedom. By the way, make any and all sacrifices to get an education. It really helps.

post #100 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Oh really. The stock holders at Apple sit around and don't do jack sh** but the top stock holders are raking in the cash while sitting at home drinking a martini.
The retail staff should be paid more because they are the public face of the company.

So by your logic, a company should pay its receptionist more than all of its engineers and COO.

Salaries are set by the market. Stock returns are set by the market. If you don't like it, there are plenty of countries with managed economies you can move to.
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post #101 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

If only you all knew.....bites tongue...

And since you refuse to tell us anything, you obviously don't know, either.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Since you're such and objective non-fanboy could you explain why Apple's retail pay is so bad?

 

Sure.  $11.25 is $22.5K a year.  Three quarters of a million in three months translates to about $3M in annual sales.  Let's say that Apple's margin is 30%, or $900,000, on those sales.  That means this guy at $11.25 is delivering a pay multiplier of 40.  Which is an order of magnitude more than many professional service providers such as engineers make.

post #103 of 129

The NYT article is so flawed it's on the verge of being pathetic.  They could have just as easily claimed that since Apple is so profitable they should reduce the prices of their products.  Why didn't they?  If Apple is allowed to charge what the market will bear, why are they not allowed to pay what the market will bear?

 

If I were to subscribe to the NYT's line of thought, I would have a more valid argument for lower prices than all of their retail employees have for higher pay-- I've been a loyal buyer far longer than than every one of them has been a loyal employee.  Heck, I started using Apple computers before many of them were born!

 

Also, their claim that Apple doesn't pay enough of their gross margin per retail employee is dubious at best.  There is no appropriate percentage for such a concept and if there were, who would determine what this is?  I sell products that generate about 15x gross margin per year compared to the average Apple retail employee.  I don't get 15x their pay but I doubt the NYT would consider me underpaid.  Further, what the NYT fails to explore is what is the real contribution of Apple's retail employee workforce to Apple's overall profitability? No doubt they are an important cog in the wheel but ultimately it's the product that makes the sale -- especially with Apple's product offerings.

post #104 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


And since you refuse to tell us anything, you obviously don't know, either.

You make it very hard to bite my tongue but just suffice it to say that many @ NYT drink the Apple kool-aid....myself included.

post #105 of 129

You get what you pay for. You want to be #1 in customer service well you have to pay your employees more money for that type of service. That's the bottom line. It'd be one thing if Apple were at the bottom of the customer service rankings....well then you could make the argument that they are as good as any customer service outfit and are paid on par as a result. However, the salary isn't commensurate with the level of service that's being provided. That is a fair discussion to have. 

post #106 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

However, the salary isn't commensurate with the level of service that's being provided. That is a fair discussion to have. 

As determined by whom and based on what criteria? The only answers that matter are the employees'. See what happened when people here thought they knew what was best for Foxconn workers? They hated their new hours.

It's like the rich people that give tractors to villages in Africa instead of hand plows.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

You get what you pay for. You want to be #1 in customer service well you have to pay your employees more money for that type of service. That's the bottom line. It'd be one thing if Apple were at the bottom of the customer service rankings....well then you could make the argument that they are as good as any customer service outfit and are paid on par as a result. However, the salary isn't commensurate with the level of service that's being provided. That is a fair discussion to have. 

Sorry, but you're contradicting yourself. First, you say that the only way to have exceptional customer service is to overpay employees. Then, you admit that Apple is at the top of customer service charts - even though they pay market rates.

In reality, there's no real correlation between customer service and employee salaries. Paying employees too much can make them lazy and self-serving. It can also motivate them. In reality, other factors are far more important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX View Post

Sure.  $11.25 is $22.5K a year.  Three quarters of a million in three months translates to about $3M in annual sales.  Let's say that Apple's margin is 30%, or $900,000, on those sales.  That means this guy at $11.25 is delivering a pay multiplier of 40.  Which is an order of magnitude more than many professional service providers such as engineers make.

That's a silly metric. Someone who cuts diamonds makes a multiplier of many times that figure. OTOH, a very skilled, talented artist gets a multiplier of 1.0 (if they work for themselves). I know sales people with multipliers of over 100 and others with multipliers of well under 10.

And that, of course, ignores the fact that there's a lot more to the job than salary. Apple's benefits are exceptional for a retail position and add a great deal of value.

Once again, the only logical way to set salaries is to pay what the market determines is an appropriate salary for a job and then modify it if you're not getting the caliber of people you desire. It's not up to you or the NYT to determine what a 'fair' salary is. The fact that people are lined up for miles to take jobs at Apple suggests that they think the current salary is fair.
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post #108 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I think I know how this one goes:

 

1. Apple sees problem.

 

2. Apple improves problem.

 

3. Media sees problem and sells ads with it.

 

4. Minor public outcry about problem.

 

5. Media inflates minor outcry into supposed scandal.

 

6. Media makes minor footnote about Apple's improvement.

 

7. Public believes Apple's improvement was only because they were forced into it.

 

8. ???

 

9. Media and Apple competitors profit.

The answer is for Apple to up the ante and employ teams of staff to permanently monitor all staff welfare/conditions and environmental impact. They have a surplus of money and the means to do so. Perhaps their mantra should be Don't be evil...Ever.

post #109 of 129

Wait, he's complaining about moving thousands of dollars of tech? I work retail selling technology and i'd KILL to have that kind of product, rather then push laptops that are all ready outdated and tablets I know are inferior! 

post #110 of 129

When does the NY Times expose come out on newsstand sellers?

 

#won'tholdmybreath

post #111 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX View Post

 

Sure.  $11.25 is $22.5K a year.  Three quarters of a million in three months translates to about $3M in annual sales.  Let's say that Apple's margin is 30%, or $900,000, on those sales.  That means this guy at $11.25 is delivering a pay multiplier of 40.  Which is an order of magnitude more than many professional service providers such as engineers make.


Sorry, it's retail. the products sell themselves. All the guy has to do is answer basic questions,  swipe a credit card and place the device in a bag.

post #112 of 129
Once you make an argument for communism, there is no turning back. The NYT could perhaps set the wages for everyone in our society. No doubt they would set theirs rather high.
post #113 of 129
In a free labor market, can't private companies set their own wages? I mean, if Apple can hire the right people for its retail operations while paying average salaries, what's wrong with that?
While the reporting might be factual, the conclusions are biased politically. The assertion being made by NYT is that these retail workers are entitled to more money. If they had left that out of the article and simply printed facts and statistics about the retail pay scales, it would be a more neutral article.

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post #114 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Sorry, it's retail. the products sell themselves. All the guy has to do is answer basic questions,  swipe a credit card and place the device in a bag.

Exactly. When I go to an Apple store, I know exactly what I want. I'm just looking to get in & out as quickly as possible, pay for my goods and be done.

 

It's not like the sales people are selling junk products and have to lie and force their products on customers, like some other stores do. iPhones, iPads, iPods and Macs sell themselves. 

post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

In a free labor market, can't private companies set their own wages?

 

Not according to a liberal/commie newspaper like the NYT. They know what's best for everybody.

post #116 of 129
Quote:

Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

...

 

Now, in order to improve their image, I think they should wear polo shirts instead of t-shirts at a minimum.  I think there should be sales people that have a BS degree, plus 3+ years business sales experience to also assist in local small business sales as well and they should be able to improve their pay upwards to $75K a year.  In the corporate sales, they want BA/BA or higher, plus 3 to 5 years Corporate Sales experience, which is far more demanding and stressful, but requires far more experience and training.

 

...

 

lol. Are you out of your mind? This is retail sales.

 

The NYT viewpoint is idiotic. Just because Apple has $110 billion stashed away doesn't mean the people that empty the trash cans should get fatter salaries. It's supply and demand. How replaceable is the person? Emptying trash? Extremely replaceable.

 

Retails sales is not a terribly unique skill set. A 4-year degree for that?

 

Oh BTW, Best Buy employees have polo shirts and it doesn't do squat for their image.

post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

The answer is for Apple to up the ante and employ teams of staff to permanently monitor all staff welfare/conditions and environmental impact. They have a surplus of money and the means to do so. Perhaps their mantra should be Don't be evil...Ever.

This is a problem for successful companies. Everyone with a social cause believes they get to tell Apple how they should spend their money. Mike Daisey, Greenpeace, NYT... The thinking is: if you have the money, you should spend it on social causes, and if you don't, you're evil forever.

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post #118 of 129

And what about employees who work for a failed company?  If Apple employees should benefit from the company so much making money should they be made to have to pay losses if the company eventually flounders?

post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Yeah, well name a "great" company who currently is the poster boy for humanism. There are none and I'm sick and tired of all this drivel about how corporations are somehow obligated to share the wealth. The world has NEVER EVER worked that way and NEVER WILL. The human condition is all about sex, wealth, and power, and the accumulation there of. And people like yourself go on and on about "fairness" and "equality" ad nauseum until of course it hits you personally in the pocketbook. It's always somebody else, some corporation who's duty it is to redistribute wealth, not your wealth of course. Somebody else's wealth.

 

Sad commentary about how some view the world.  And there have been "great" companies who have promoted "fairness" and "sharing the wealth."  Case in point, Henry Ford:  

 

After the success of the moving assembly line, Henry Ford had another transformative idea: in January 1914, he startled the world by announcing that Ford Motor Company would pay $5 a day to its workers. The pay increase would also be accompanied by a shorter workday (from nine to eight hours). While this rate didn't automatically apply to every worker, it more than doubled the average autoworker's wage. As expected, employee turnover diminished. And, by creating an eight-hour day, Ford could run three shifts instead of two, increasing productivity.Henry Ford had reasoned that since it was now possible to build inexpensive cars in volume, more of them could be sold if employees could afford to buy them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post

I am ashamed to be in company with so many cold hearted, mean spirited people on these forums. I thought that Apple fans were different. You sound like a bunch of Islamic fundamentalists. I guess when a brand gets to become so big, it has to absorb even bottom feeders.

 

I realized long ago that AI is primary a newsfeed for Apple shareholders...most of the comments here are from those folks that have a vested interest in watching Apple profit, not the best interests of it's workers, society or even the products themselves.

 

By the way, this headline from Business Insider reflects the premise of this story on the broader economic level:

 

     Corporate Profits Just Hit An All-Time High, Wages Just Hit An All-Time Low

 

post #120 of 129

Lost in much of the conversation are the benefits, such as health insurance, stock options and employee discounts that Apple pays.  I visit my local Apple Store at the Natick (MA) Mall several times a month.  I pass by a Lululemon store down the aisle.  The Lulu store is empty and the one or two clerks are re-folding and cleaning up shelves.  They look lonely and dispirited.  

 

The Apple Store is always "Rocking the Casbah."  Customers are immediately greeted by happy, energized Apple Reps.  Contrary to the NYT article, I am always impressed by the wide range of ages and experience of the Reps. Age does not seem to be a factor in hiring, just enthusiasm and a desire to be helpful.  How many other companies look beyond age and appearance besides Apple?  Not Lululemon, where obvious hiring criteria include youth, low BMI and beauty.

 

As an AAPL shareholder, I applauded last week's announcement that Reps could qualify for 25% salary increases.  I want the best reps to stay motivated and stay with Apple for a long time.

 

Apple empowers its Reps and Geniuses to bend over backwards to make every customer happy, even to the extent of making no cost exchanges and repairs, well beyond what any other company does.  Take a loot at the "Haggler" column  in Sunday's NYT and compare how Apple and Hewlett-Packard care for their customers.

 

Case closed.

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