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Apple tones down language touting OS X security measures

post #1 of 108
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Apple's website used to boldly claim that the Mac "doesn't get PC viruses," but following the spread of the Flashback botnet, the company has since toned down the language to say that OS X is "built to be safe."

The changed list of features on Apple's promotional website for OS X was first noticed by PCWorld. Another headline on the site used to say that users could safeguard their data "by doing nothing," but the page has since been changed to read, "Safety. Built right in."

The new, revised language is less boastful about OS X security, and the it no longer mentions "the thousands of viruses plaguing windows-based computers." Rather than putting down Windows PCs, Apple now simply focuses on how OS X helps to keep users safe.

The changes come just a few months after more than 600,000 Macs were estimated to have been infected by a trojan horse named "Flashback." More than half of the Macs believed to be infected by the botnet were found in the U.S. alone.

Security


The first iteration of the malware appeared in 2011 disguised as an Adobe Installer. Following installation, Flashback harvests sensitive data like user IDs, passwords and web browsing history and sends the information to an off-site server.

After the malware began to spread rapidly, Apple responded by releasing a number of software updates to block Flashback. Apple also issued a Flashback-specific malware tool in April.
post #2 of 108
If there's any better reason for the removal of Flash and Java, let me hear it. "Pathetic performance" might fit that bill.
post #3 of 108

"Safeguard your data. By doing nothing." was a terrible tagline in all senses anyway.

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post #4 of 108

PR. They had to. 

 

The average user doesn't know the difference between "trojan" and "virus" and "malware." In fact, Joe Lunchbox lumps everything into the "virus" category. 

 

Next time a trojan shows up for OS X (we get one or two every few years, Lol) they'll scream "virus!!!"  and there goes the neighbourhood.

And whereas media coverage about the precious few pieces of OS X malware in the past was next to nonexistent, Apple's brand name has

garnered more attention over the past few years than ever. Count on the news about next trojan (maybe sometime next year)

to clog tech news sites and mainstream news outlets. 

 

Apple doesn't need to deal with that kind of bullish*t. Can't blame them for modifying the PR blurb.

It wasn't necessary, but the possibility for negative PR arising from consumer misunderstanding (or rather, ignorance) is far too great. 

post #5 of 108
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Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

I'm sure after the Australia 4G advertising lawsuit, Apple's lawyers scoured all of the promotional material to see what could be future lawsuit material. If anyone lost any data to a Mac virus and Apple is saying "to protect your data, do nothing", it's an automatic lawsuit. Going forward, I'm sure all advertising will be going through the lawyers for a final check.

Excellent point.
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post #6 of 108
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

PR. They had to. 

 

The average user doesn't know the difference between "trojan" and "virus" and "malware." In fact, Joe Lunchbox lumps everything into the "virus" category. 

 

Next time a trojan shows up for OS X (we get one or two every few years, Lol) they'll scream "virus!!!"  and there goes the neighbourhood.

And whereas media coverage about the precious few pieces of OS X malware in the past was next to nonexistent, Apple's brand name has

garnered more attention over the past few years than ever. Count on the news about next trojan (maybe sometime next year)

to clog tech news sites and mainstream news outlets. 

 

Apple doesn't need to deal with that kind of bullish*t. Can't blame them for modifying the PR blurb.

It wasn't necessary, but the possibility for negative PR arising from consumer misunderstanding (or rather, ignorance) is far too great. 

It's perfectly reasonably for Joe Lunchbox to think so.  Whether it's a worm or virus, or an STD, he doesn't care, "It just doesn't work, fix it" he yells.

 

Regardless, his understanding should be that "OS X doesn't need extra anti-viral software, because Apple will issue a security update ASAP if there is anything wrong".  It really doesn't make sense that they would need to teach us anything too technical. 

 

Should I be worried about my iOS running on 'unsecure wireless networks' yet?

post #7 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

If there's any better reason for the removal of Flash and Java, let me hear it. "Pathetic performance" might fit that bill.

Flash and Java have already been removed form OS X. It is up to the end user to install them if they wish. BTW I have a Flash to HTML5 job that I need programmed if you know anyone who is good at that stuff. It should be quite a challenge so if you think you are up for it send me a PM.

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post #8 of 108

Apple needs to get serious about security fast.  At least they are not being so crazy about how safe it is.

 

I hope Apple gets security build back up to when it had a smaller market-share.

 

Sadly i think it will not happen.

 

My bigger concern is now that most OSX users are much less careful than most Windows users....

 

:(

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post #9 of 108
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Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

I'm sure after the Australia 4G advertising lawsuit, Apple's lawyers scoured all of the promotional material to see what could be future lawsuit material. If anyone lost any data to a Mac virus and Apple is saying "to protect your data, do nothing", it's an automatic lawsuit. Going forward, I'm sure all advertising will be going through the lawyers for a final check.

I think there is plenty of truth in what you say. Of Apple can be sued for correctly stating the iPad has LTE HW and that it will not work in Australia they an surely get sued by their very comment about Macs and Windows-based PCs.

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post #10 of 108
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

BTW I have a Flash to HTML5 job that I need programmed if you know anyone who is good at that stuff. It should be quite a challenge so if you think you are up for it send me a PM.

Have you looked into Wallaby, or is that still too threadbare?
post #11 of 108

Apple did the right thing by covering their @ss on this. There may have been no viruses for OS X to date, but that's not to say there couldn't be. It's impossible to say with absolute certainty that any OS can be made 100% impervious to viruses. That said, I still think OS X is one of the most, if not the most, secure OSes available.

post #12 of 108
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Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Apple did the right thing by covering their @ss on this. There may have been no viruses for OS X to date, but that's not to say there couldn't be. It's impossible to say with absolute certainty that any OS can be made 100% impervious to viruses. That said, I still think OS X is one of the most, if not the most, secure OSes available.

 

The thing is, it is highly unlikely that we'll see "viruses" on OSX, because of its Unix foundation. The permissions-based architecture of Unix all but precludes the possibility of a virus spreading like it does in the Windows environment. But viruses aren't the only kind of malware out there. 

 

It's notable that almost all the 'malware' we've seen for OSX so far requires explicit user approval to gain entry to a user's system, and it can't spread itself to other systems automatically. That said, once installed Trojans and Worms and the like can destroy data, steal data, and forward emails to your contacts in the hopes that they will in turn give permission for something to run… 

 

This is the main reason the Flashback trojan was so successful. We often have apps set up to "automatically check for updates", and they'll pop up a notification and dialog to enable an update when one comes available… Flashback looked exactly like the all-familiar Adobe Flash update installer, so many people didn't think too much about the timing or sudden appearance… it was an unexpected surprise perhaps, but, oh, it's a Flash update… *click. 

 

I also find it notable that although 600k sounds like a lot, it's a very small proportion of the total installed Mac base…

 

No doubt we're still a LOT safer (and hassle free) than that other mainstream OS…

post #13 of 108

I have noticed that, with later versions of 10.6 (and now with 10.7) none of the software updates that come directly from Apple ask for a system password anymore, prior to installation.

 

When/how/why did this change, and is this wise? Couldn't someone use something that looks similar to fool consumers into accidentally downloading bad stuff?

post #14 of 108
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

When/how/why did this change, and is this wise? Couldn't someone use something that looks similar to fool consumers into accidentally downloading bad stuff?

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post #15 of 108
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


How could a fake App Store install itself on your computer?

Is that an answer, or a question, or are you just being snarky-rhetorical?

 

And who said anything about an App Store?

post #16 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Is that an answer, or a question, or are you just being snarky-rhetorical?

And who said anything about an App Store?

Come Mountain Lion, all updates are done through the App Store. They'd have to have a fake App Store app install to get any updates to pretend to happen. Unless you think someone could somehow inject "updates" into the real App Store.
post #17 of 108
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Come Mountain Lion, all updates are done through the App Store. They'd have to have a fake App Store app install to get any updates to pretend to happen. Unless you think someone could somehow inject "updates" into the real App Store.

Read my question. If you don't have a useful answer -- or don't understand the question -- go somewhere else and play.

 

Go on, now....

post #18 of 108
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Have you looked into Wallaby, or is that still too threadbare?

I have not even heard of Wallaby before. I looked at Sencha which is ok for basic animations. The project I have in mind is converting a Flash based menu system into CSS JS but this menu is really complicated and parses an xml structure. I can do it by hand, I just don't have time right now.

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post #19 of 108
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I have noticed that, with later versions of 10.6 (and now with 10.7) none of the software updates that come directly from Apple ask for a system password anymore, prior to installation.

 

When/how/why did this change, and is this wise? Couldn't someone use something that looks similar to fool consumers into accidentally downloading bad stuff?

I think they are probably signed and have an MD5 key. If any hacker tried to alter the OS or install an application, especially one from the Internet the built in security controls would pop up.There are probably many new users who don't know their root password and have no login either so perhaps Apple simplified the process to help keep these new people up to date. If they don't know the password they wouldn't be able to upgrade. 

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post #20 of 108
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Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

Apple needs to get serious about security fast.  At least they are not being so crazy about how safe it is.

 

I hope Apple gets security build back up to when it had a smaller market-share.

 

Sadly i think it will not happen.

 

My bigger concern is now that most OSX users are much less careful than most Windows users....

 

:(

 

I think that is a fair concern. Apple has for years misguided its customer base into thinking that OS X is inherently (technically) safe, using Windows as a foil, whereas the truth was actually in OS X's lack of value for hackers. With Apple's ballooning share of the market, the years of security neglect are starting to show. Apple can hope its loyal base will shift blame onto Flash and Java (which *do* increase security risks), but the fact remains that OS X has *not* been hardened in the way Windows has over the years. OS X will have to go through the *same security evolution* as Windows if OS X continues to gain traction. Flame this post if you like, but if your beloved platform continues to grow, you will "suffer" as do Windows users for being high value targets. Summary: OS X is not secure, play safe and be ready for battle.
post #21 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Read my question. If you don't have a useful answer -- or don't understand the question -- go somewhere else and play.

Go on, now....

I've answered your question exactly as presented. The meaningless condescension makes you look really confused.
post #22 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

 

I think that is a fair concern. Apple has for years misguided its customer base into thinking that OS X is inherently (technically) safe, using Windows as a foil, whereas the truth was actually in OS X's lack of value for hackers. With Apple's ballooning share of the market, the years of security neglect are starting to show. Apple can hope its loyal base will shift blame onto Flash and Java (which *do* increase security risks), but the fact remains that OS X has *not* been hardened in the way Windows has over the years. OS X will have to go through the *same security evolution* as Windows if OS X continues to gain traction.Flame this post if you like, but if your beloved platform continues to grow, you will "suffer" as do Windows users for being high value targets.Summary: OS X is not secure, play safe and be ready for battle.

I don't think this is entirely true. OS X is built on UNIX which is a much more secure system to start with than Windows. Things like having all the applications support files in a single directory instead of scattered about the Windows Registry and a much more robust file permissions architecture make OS X inherently more secure. Plus the new ML will enforce even higher security with Gatekeeper so Apple is definitely not sitting idly by but is being proactive about security. They certainly are starting from a much better position than Windows did. UNIX is secure from the foundation. On Windows security is a bunch of patchwork. Many people are running Windows as administrator much more than Mac so that makes a big difference as well.

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post #23 of 108
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Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

With Apple's ballooning share of the market, the years of security neglect are starting to show. Apple can hope its loyal base will shift blame onto Flash and Java (which *do* increase security risks), but the fact remains that OS X has *not* been hardened in the way Windows has over the years. OS X will have to go through the *same security evolution* as Windows if OS X continues to gain traction.

 

If Windows was so battle hardened and perfect it would be impenetrable.  Yet with Windows 7 still requires antivirus because Windows 7 vulnerable to 8 out of 10 viruses.

 

Even Microsoft acknowledges that its current Windows 7 requires anti-virus software: 

 

How can I help protect my computer from viruses?

Protecting your computer from viruses and other threats isn't difficult, but you have to be diligent.

  • Install an antivirus program. Installing an antivirus program and keeping it up-to-date can help defend your computer against viruses. 

 

Yet after 10 years and millions of users, we're yet to see a single virus affect Mac OS X.  True it has been affected by malware, but not the deluge that engulfs the Windows world.


Edited by ChiA - 6/25/12 at 3:32pm
post #24 of 108
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think this is entirely true. OS X is built on UNIX which is a much more secure system to start with than Windows. Things like having all the applications support files in a single directory instead of scattered about the Windows Registry and a much more robust file permissions architecture make OS X inherently more secure. Plus the new ML will enforce even higher security with Gatekeeper so Apple is definitely not sitting idly by but is being proactive about security. They certainly are starting from a much better position than Windows did. UNIX is secure from the foundation. On Windows security is a bunch of patchwork. Many people are running Windows as administrator much more than Mac so that makes a big difference as well.

 

You must consider that invoking UNIX in the way your are means *server* platforms. Part of UNIX's legendary security is because of hardcore, basement gnome administrators *managing* it. Also, Windows Server is a very sophisticated and deep piece of software with real security certifications. Normal people who use computers use desktop variants, which means there are a LOT of ways for things to go wrong (i.e.: non-OS software installed by non-technical people.)

I'm not saying that Apple isn't addressing security, but it has VERY little experience in the department compared to, say, MS, and there is precious little 3rd party help at the moment. Like for Windows, the uphill fight is on, and it is at your peril if you perpetuate Apple's "all's well" propaganda.

PS: Saying "patchwork" is ambiguous. Of *course* it's patchwork, just like those software updates you get for OS X. Do you want them to rewrite the whole OS each time? The fact that Apple is writing BIG pieces of software to address the issues means OS X is *immature*
post #25 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

 

If Windows was so battle hardened and perfect it would be impenetrable.  Yet with Windows 7 still requires antivirus because Windows 7 vulnerable to 8 out of 10 viruses.

 

Even Microsoft acknowledges that its current Windows 7 requires anti-virus software: 

 

How can I help protect my computer from viruses?

 

Yet after 10 years and millions of users, we're yet to see a single virus affect Mac OS X.  True it has been affected by malware, but not the deluge that engulfs the Windows world.

 

Sure, millions of OS X users vs billions of Windows users. Question of scale, something people seem incapable of observing.

Why or why are people so blindered? Is the US impenetrable? Did we not get the buhjezus blown out of us ten years ago? Windows has holes because it is also BIG. OS X will get its holes *revealed* if its popularity continues. Get a clue! If you keep your way of thinking, you'll go the way the Dodo bird when the invaders do come knocking.
post #26 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I have noticed that, with later versions of 10.6 (and now with 10.7) none of the software updates that come directly from Apple ask for a system password anymore, prior to installation.

 

When/how/why did this change, and is this wise? Couldn't someone use something that looks similar to fool consumers into accidentally downloading bad stuff?

 

I think part of the problem with malware in OS X lies in the fact that many installers ask for the admin password, so people routinely grant permission to a program or installer without giving thought to what it may be up to, entering the password becomes the same reflex action as dismissing pesky dialogue boxes on Windows.

 

So in view of this behaviour Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion looks like a good idea, but I'm relieved that it's an option for users to decide whether to use or not.

post #27 of 108
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

PR. They had to. 

 

The average user doesn't know the difference between "trojan" and "virus" and "malware." In fact, Joe Lunchbox lumps everything into the "virus" category. 

 

Not only Joe Lunchbox is lumping everything under the virus category, but Joe Talking Head and Joe Newswriter are doing the same. 

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post #28 of 108
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Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

 

IWith Apple's ballooning share of the market, the years of security neglect are starting to show.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that the ratios are very different now than they were years ago.  Isn't it still > 90% for Windows and < 10% OSX?

post #29 of 108
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

......meaningless condescension makes you look really confused.......

You're certainly the expert on 'meaningless condescension'.

Just so that you know, some important software that people rely on -- SPSS, in my case -- don't keep pace with Apple's OS revisions, and the need for that specialized software can trump the need for the next new bells-and-whistles OS that doesn't do all that much for the average user.
post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

Why or why are people so blindered? Is the US impenetrable? Did we not get the buhjezus blown out of us ten years ago? Windows has holes because it is also BIG. OS X will get its holes *revealed* if its popularity continues. Get a clue! If you keep your way of thinking, you'll go the way the Dodo bird when the invaders do come knocking.

 

Keep in mind the genealogy of the two OS softwares. Windows is an OS built for stand-alone 16 bit systems, and was itself a rewrite of an 8-bit OS. It has been patched up more times than anyone can count and extended and modified for 32-bit / 64 bit use. Unix-based OS was from the inception intended for larger computers. A lot of what troubles Windows never has been part of Unix's weaknesses.

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post #31 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You're certainly the expert on 'meaningless condescension'.
Just so that you know, some important software that people rely on -- SPSS, in my case -- don't keep pace with Apple's OS revisions, and the need for that specialized software can trump the need for the next new bells-and-whistles OS that doesn't do all that much for the average user.

I have a lot of respect for both you and TS. However, you may be jumping at shadows in regards to his reply.

He appeared to genuinely attempt to answer your question, based on the information that you provided, and his reply was technically correct.

And to all the gloaters, please try to keep in mind that MAC OS X's third party software (not the core operating system) had less 'viruses' this year than the PC platform had in the last hour...
Edited by GTR - 6/25/12 at 4:34pm
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post #32 of 108
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Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

Keep in mind the genealogy of the two OS softwares. Windows is an OS built for stand-alone 16 bit systems, and was itself a rewrite of an 8-bit OS. It has been patched up more times than anyone can count and extended and modified for 32-bit / 64 bit use. Unix-based OS was from the inception intended for larger computers. A lot of what troubles Windows never has been part of Unix's weaknesses.

 

Does that make a difference? I guess it makes Windows a more mature platform for having been rewritten a couple of times, with more engineering resources put into it, so I'll agree with you there. UNIX, the way the word is thrown around, means 1% of the complexity of modern desktop environments, which means the majority of problems you'll run into with OS X have *nothing* to do with UNIX but rather with OS X.

I'm not saying OS X will suffer the same *technical* problems Windows does, rather it will suffer from being a complex system thrust into the limelight without a history of dealing with malware. It will be a case of the Emperor's New Clothes - entirely Apple's fault for making people believe that it is inherently safe (in some other way than obscurity, which it can't count on anymore) And BTW, when I get a Windows patch the OS does NOT crash, ever. In the XP days I had problems, since Windows 7 my system has been rock solid. OS X has bombed me numerous times, and twice in recent history with their updates. The OS X team is absolutely amateur compared to the Windows team.
post #33 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post


I have a lot of respect for both you and TS. However, you may be jumping at shadows in regards to his reply.
He appeared to genuinely attempt to answer your question, based on the information that you provided, and his reply was technically correct.
And to all the gloaters, please try to keep in mind that MAC OS X's third party software (not the core operating system) had less 'viruses' this year than the PC platform had in the last hour...

 

And to you defensive OS X folks, welcome to the real world. Apple had better step up its game.

I should add that I'm a 51% vote for OS X over Windows, and most of that is because of Apple's industrial design. If their computers where any less awesome, I'd be on a Thinkpad.
post #34 of 108

The "low marketshare" argument doesn't quite hold true when, since OS X's release in 2001, there's been just a handful of malware.

Every couple of years there's *maybe* a new trojan. And the media eats it up. And then all goes quiet again.

 

Even years ago, OS X was running on tens of millions of Macs. Today we are told that there are around 60 million OS X users.

Let's go back a few years, or maybe more than that, when there were only, say 35 million users. And hardly a peep about "malware" for OS X. 35 million users.

That's approximately the population of Canada. Or nearly all of California. 

 

Think about it. ALL of California on Macs. And only a meagre handful (even less than today) of Mac malware. 

 

Now let's fast forward to today's 60 million users. Still barely a handful of Mac malware. What do we have, two more? Four more?

 

If you buy into the "low marketshare" argument, then you're either new or dumb. 

 

Besides that, OS X is immune to every single instance of Windows viruses and Windows malware in existence.

Further, there is currently no way to remotely infect (by way of a destructive, spreading virus) even a vanilla OS X installation.

This has been the case for OS X's entire existence.

 

And malware isn't even worth mentioning when it comes to iOS. 

post #35 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The "low marketshare" argument doesn't quite hold true when, since OS X's release in 2001, there's been just a handful of malware.

Every couple of years there's *maybe* a new trojan. And the media eats it up. And then all goes quiet again.

 

Even years ago, OS X was running on tens of millions of Macs. Today we are told that there are around 60 million OS X users.

Let's go back a few years, or maybe more than that, when there were only, say 35 million users. And hardly a peep about "malware" for OS X. 35 million users.

That's approximately the population of Canada. Or nearly all of California. 

 

Think about it. ALL of California on Macs. And only a meagre handful (even less than today) of Mac malware. 

 

Now let's fast forward to today's 60 million users. Still barely a handful of Mac malware. What do we have, two more? Four more?

 

If you buy into the "low marketshare" argument, then you're either new or dumb. 

 

Besides that, OS X is immune to every single instance of Windows viruses and Windows malware in existence.

Further, there is currently no way to remotely infect (by way of a destructive, spreading virus) even a vanilla OS X installation.

This has been the case for OS X's entire existence.

 

And malware isn't even worth mentioning when it comes to iOS. 

 

Do you know the # of Windows users? Why are you people so irrational? Also, FYI, via history and Google search


New targeted Mac OS X Trojan requires no user interaction

Another Mac OS X Trojan has been spotted in the wild; this one exploits Java vulnerabilities just like the Flashback Trojan. Also just like Flashback, this new Trojan requires no user interaction to infect your Apple Mac. Kaspersky refers to it as “Backdoor.OSX.SabPub.a” while Sophos calls it at “SX/Sabpab-A.”

Right, that isn't vanilla (anymore), but if you want to keep those blinders on, then make sure you don't install ANYTHING on that vanilla system, because you wouldn't want to make your machine useful or expose yourself to the world or anything.
Edited by kustardking - 6/25/12 at 5:27pm
post #36 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

 

 

I'm not sure that the ratios are very different now than they were years ago.  Isn't it still > 90% for Windows and < 10% OSX?

 

Yes, it is still VERY small, and hence Apple users still able to believe in the old lines that Apple itself has retracted. However, with the popularity of the iOS ecosystem, I think Apple has a very good chance of bumping up the share. I hope they do, because I like the design a lot. However, I very much do not like the smoke-and-mirrors anti-virus Windows FUD campaign they've been waging to date. I'd like to see Apple prepare for a bright future by investing in security. Maybe they are already!
post #37 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

 

And to you defensive OS X folks, welcome to the real world. Apple had better step up its game.

I should add that I'm a 51% vote for OS X over Windows, and most of that is because of Apple's industrial design. If their computers where any less awesome, I'd be on a Thinkpad.

 

Whoops!

 

In the time it took you to make that post, the PC world just copped another virus... (>_<)

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post #38 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by kustardking View Post

 

Do you know the # of Windows users? Why are you people so irrational?

 

Perfect point.

 

Given MS' horizontal business model, and their universal-licensing racket, they will for the foreseeable future have dominant PC marketshare. 

 

OS X share *still* won't rise above what, at most 15%? Let's say 20% just for kicks. 

Still doesn't in any way suggest much more of a "malware problem" beyond what we have today, which is really no problem at all.

One of the barriers to Mac adoption on the level of Pee-Cees is price. The Mac/OS X entry-fee is minimum $1000 (unless we're talking

about the Mini.) But naturally, as with many things in life, a Premium experience will cost you. On the other hand, those Dell boxes

start at what, $400?  But Apple owns the $1000+ market segment. And that's just fine by them (and consumers, too.)

 

And as for the # of Windows users and the amount of Windows malware today, don't kid yourself. It's as much due to horrible design and extreme negligence by MS

as it is by virtue of Windows flooding the market. 

 
For example, Before '03-'04, MS had no such thing as user-permission prompts (among other missing security features.)
Windows XP shipped with FIVE open ports. And this was in 2001! Can you believe that? XP shipped insecure by default in an
environment that was already teeming with Windows viruses. MS really had no viable, effective concept of security in any of its
operating systems until Vista. Which finally caught Windows up to where everyone else had been for years.
post #39 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Perfect point.

 

Given MS' horizontal business model, and their universal-licensing racket, they will for the foreseeable future have dominant PC marketshare. 

 

OS X share *still* won't rise above what, at most 15%? Let's say 20% just for kicks. 

Still doesn't in any way suggest much more of a "malware problem" beyond what we have today, which is really no problem at all.

One of the barriers to Mac adoption on the level of Pee-Cees is price. The Mac/OS X entry-fee is minimum $1000 (unless we're talking

about the Mini.) But naturally, as with many things in life, a Premium experience will cost you. On the other hand, those Dell boxes

start at what, $400?  But Apple owns the $1000+ market segment. And that's just fine by them (and consumers, too.)

 

And as for the # of Windows users and the amount of Windows malware today, don't kid yourself. It's as much due to horrible design and extreme negligence by MS

as it is by virtue of Windows flooding the market. 

 
For example, Before '03-'04, MS had no such thing as user-permission prompts (among other missing security features.)
Windows XP shipped with FIVE open ports. And this was in 2001! Can you believe that? XP shipped insecure by default in an
environment that was already teeming with Windows viruses. MS really had no viable, effective concept of security in any of its
operating systems until Vista. Which finally caught Windows up to where everyone else had been for years.

 

Uh, OK, if you want to contradict your own original argument that's fine - that's what arguments are about, adapting, so we agree that low market share means lower risk of exposure.

Now, my other point is that I think, and hope, that Apple's market share will get larger. Their iOS platform appears to be helping that. Increased share means greater exposure, which in turn means a better ROI for virus writers. You know how the iPhone gets rooted on day 0 each time? Well, that's because it's such a hot phone. Guess what? If OS X gets bigger, you will have those same smarties, and evil ones, too, ripping it apart.

Argue that OS X is inherently safe all you want, but use the iOS rooting instant-defeat real-life examples as a warning.
post #40 of 108
OK, I can see this will be endless, so I'll leave with a summary of my opinion, cuz obviously it's just an opinion, of what's what

  • Apple has for years been subsidizing a sense of security by pointing at Windows faults
  • Apple has begun retracting that propaganda in light of recent, serious security breeches
  • OS X is not a stable environment relative to Windows 7
  • Apple has recently been in the habit of crashing their OS with patches
  • All systems have bugs, but the recent performance of OS updates exposes that OS X is *absolutely subject* to serious risks
  • If Apple's share of the market increases, those risks *will be* exploited
  • IMPORTANT: Use the rapidity of iOS's rooting as a forewarning of what the real-world will be like for a more popular OS X

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