or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple experiencing battery issues in development of next iPhone - rumor
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple experiencing battery issues in development of next iPhone - rumor

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
One of Apple's key suppliers may be having trouble providing batteries for the next iPhone that are up to standards, according to a new rumor.

The claims stem from an article at the Chinese news website Sina.com discovered by analyst Brian White with Topeka Capital Markets. In a note to investors shared with AppleInsider on Thursday, White relayed details from the report, which suggested that only 30 percent of the battery volumes produced currently meet Apple's standards.

The unnamed battery vendor is reportedly working to solve the problem as development of Apple's next iPhone ramps up ahead of an anticipated release later this year.

Rumors of a battery production issue come on the heels of a second story from ifeng.com discovered by White that suggested Apple might want to launch its next iPhone as soon as the end of August. However, the analyst still believes that Apple will launch its sixth-generation handset in September.

"If there is a battery challenge, we trust that Apple will be able to figure it out in time for a September launch," White wrote.

Teardown 1


White's prediction of a September launch for the next iPhone is earlier than some others anticipate. Last year, the iPhone 4S launched in mid-October, and some industry watchers expect Apple will wait about a year before launching a new handset.

Apple's next iPhone is generally expected to have a 4G LTE radio for high-speed data connectivity. Its dock connector might also get a major redesign with a new, smaller form factor featuring 19 pins.

Reports have also claimed the next iPhone will feature a larger 4-inch display that will be taller than the current 3.5-inch screen and will adopt a new 16:9 aspect ratio with a resolution of 1,136 by 640 pixels.
post #2 of 34
The SoC is not still on Samsung's 45nm? I guess soon Apple will have to switch to Intel (again) for performance/watt reasons and I would rather an Intel chip than a Samsung in my next iPhone.

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

Reply

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

Reply
post #3 of 34

Here we go. What's next? The screens can't be made. The SoC error rate is too high. The shorters have to get the negative stories flying so that they can get AAPL down around $500 in order to buy-in before the holiday season gets ramped up.
 

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #4 of 34

If this has any truth to it, I hope it's because Apple will be employing some new superior battery tech that just isn't up to the yields of the old stuff yet.

post #5 of 34

Brian White sourcing some obscure Chinese website is up there with Bloomberg and Shaw Wu for lacking in a history of accuracy. I'm taking this with a quarry sized salt lick

 

The only part of this that I think might be true is the end of August thing. because of the school utility in iOS 6 I could see Apple 'launch' the iPhone in mid to late august with iOS 6 available immediately but the phone not actually going on sale until mid - late Sept. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Brian White sourcing some obscure Chinese website is up there with Bloomberg and Shaw Wu for lacking in a history of accuracy. I'm taking this with a quarry sized salt lick

 

The only part of this that I think might be true is the end of August thing. because of the school utility in iOS 6 I could see Apple 'launch' the iPhone in mid to late august with iOS 6 available immediately but the phone not actually going on sale until mid - late Sept. 

 

You're kidding, right?

na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

The SoC is not still on Samsung's 45nm? I guess soon Apple will have to switch to Intel (again) for performance/watt reasons and I would rather an Intel chip than a Samsung in my next iPhone.

 

It's been speculated that Apple may employ TSMC's 28nm process to fabricate their SoC, but that was only if they could meet Apple's production scale. Otherwise, Apple may not have a choice and continue to use Samsung's 32nm process as they do with the A5X.

 

Intel's mobile processors are so far down the ladder compared to ARM, that it will be years before Apple ever made that switch.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
Reply
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
Reply
post #8 of 34

There might be a little truth behind rumor or whatever this could be. Especially when Apple wants to reduce the thickness a little. Only a little because we don't want the kind of holding experience which 4G iPod touch gives. This speculation of mine comes because of the relative products coming from the competition and there is also a the small docking port found on that alleged NEXT iPhone video. I think I have some doubts with that implementation also.

 

There is another possibility of little truth behind this rumor because Apple wants to give worldwide LTE compatibility. Hell they even want thealiens to be able to use 4G LTE on the upcoming new iPhone. I am not quite certain but unifying lot of bands could create the scenario in which system behaves in a surprising way. And this is a "bad" surprise we are talking about with alleged 3D rendering, if at all. :(

 

I hate these conditions where Sir Jony Ive is forced to make comprises in his design. Nobody actually likes to change the design. All designers love their designs if turns out it in a way they have imagined. Just kidding. (But there was no kidding when I postponed purchasing the new iPad because it was slightly thicker in size & heavier in weight. I think I will be happy with my iPad 2 until & unless the next iPad comes with sharp's IGZO panels. At least it will be a* much needed welcome change in same old IPS display which could be called quite old tech*. when compared to the recent developments. Coming to the point... )

 

And there comes the another situation which we all know. Larger screen. At least 4". More pixels. So more raw power required from alleged A6 chip. But. Yes there is a but! With SoC implementations & custom silicon, I think they have mastered this art in a way where no matter how many pixels the hardware guys want to put in any form factor, chip guys will always oblige. This is an area where Apple has the highest lead to the competition. This is an area where their million-billion dollars worth of investment has given them substantial lead from the competition. Apple simply excels. BTW any idea about whether the new iPhone will come with the next step (PowerVR Series6 ‘Rogue’ architecture) or it will be cruising along with the new iPad as it has always been. 

 

Oh jeez it's rumor mill working at it's highest possible production capacity or I think I am going crazy with my imagination.

 

*edit

post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

 

It's been speculated that Apple may employ TSMC's 28nm process to fabricate their SoC, but that was only if they could meet Apple's production scale. Otherwise, Apple may not have a choice and continue to use Samsung's 32nm process as they do with the A5X.

 

Intel's mobile processors are so far down the ladder compared to ARM, that it will be years before Apple ever made that switch.

 

Selling 35 - 50 million units (per quarter) of one item could end up being Apple's undoing if they don't figure out a way of getting the manufacturers ramped up for the necessary production.


Edited by island hermit - 6/28/12 at 8:41am
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

The SoC is not still on Samsung's 45nm? I guess soon Apple will have to switch to Intel (again) for performance/watt reasons and I would rather an Intel chip than a Samsung in my next iPhone.

 

Surely it's not going to be on Samsungs 45 nm process, if not on 28 nm, at the very least it will be 32 nm, the A5 in the latest AppleTV and iPad 2 is already produced using a 32 nm process.

 

I wouldn't want to have an Intel chip in my next iPhone by the way, Intel is nowhere near the performance per watt that ARM chips get. To me, performance per watt really is the only thing that matters for a phone or tablet.

post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Surely it's not going to be on Samsungs 45 nm process, if not on 28 nm, at the very least it will be 32 nm, the A5 in the latest AppleTV and iPad 2 is already produced using a 32 nm process.

I wouldn't want to have an Intel chip in my next iPhone by the way, Intel is nowhere near the performance per watt that ARM chips get. To me, performance per watt really is the only thing that matters for a phone or tablet.

Performance per watt is the main metric, but there are others:

Size. It's cramped in there - if one chip uses less space (particularly when you include the surrounding circuitry and ancillary chips), it could be an advantage. I have no idea how the two options shape up.

Price.

Software. Apple has a well-established ecosystem for iOS on ARM. If Intel simply reaches parity in the other metrics, that would be enough to prevent a change. Because of the software base, Apple would only switch to Intel if there's a significant advantage in the other metrics.

Supply chain issues. Apple needs a steady supply of millions of chips per month. While both Intel and Samsung can handle that, what happens if the primary vendor has a problem? If Apple uses ARM, they have the potential to switch to another vendor. If they're using Intel, they do not.

From all of that, I agree that it's unlikely that Apple would switch to Intel, but for other reasons in addition to performance per watt.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #12 of 34
Quote:
I'm taking this with a quarry sized salt lick

Well stated.
post #13 of 34

The next iPhone isn't coming in August. The likely LTE chips aren't going to be ready in quantity by then. Late September or October.

post #14 of 34

This rumors smells like BS. It makes zero sense. Apple ships millions devices each quarter and each of them has a battery in it. iPhone 5's batteries won't be any different than these batteries that ship today.

post #15 of 34

When launching such a world class product, there are millions of similar issues to be solved. The miracle is that they are ...

post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighype View Post

iPhone 5's batteries won't be any different than these batteries that ship today.

That's because it's already shipping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by big hype View Post

The 6th iPhone 5's batteries won't be any different than these batteries that ship today.

It better darn well be different. LTE's such a leech on battery (and a faster processor would be, as well) that if the battery isn't changed at all, we'll have serious usability issues.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #17 of 34

They could announce in September,then the release date to be in October. And I think they'll announce a new iPod Touch too, because I doubt they'd ignore it for another year. They didn't necessarily ignore it may be that they were waiting until this year/

post #18 of 34

"Quick, rouse up half the population of Kansas and get them to work right now for at least 12 consecutive 12-hour shifts, we need to ship these in September! 

 

"What? What was that? Oh, union laws don't allow that? What do you mean we have to pay overtime? Oh, the packaging staff is on vacation? What do you mean out on maternity leave; I thought she was just fat, she's from Kansas for crying outloud!? What do you mean most of the workers have 45-minute commutes?! Why don't we just build a dorm around the factory here?! 

 

"Okay, that's it, we're moving to China." 

post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighype View Post

This rumors smells like BS. It makes zero sense. Apple ships millions devices each quarter and each of them has a battery in it. iPhone 5's batteries won't be any different than these batteries that ship today.

I think this is missing the point. The LTE radio and potentially larger screen will drain the battery faster than the previous model. If you don't increase the power density at the same physical size than you have to increase the size of the phone to accommodate a larger battery at the previous power density , which then in turn requires a re-engineering. I'd be somewhat disappointed if they make the iPhone larger that changes the resolution, as that will just anger the developers who already design against the native resolution of the device. 

 

More power amplifiers are required in LTE models to support the multiple bands needed, so logically the power draw will be higher when used in LTE locations. As we've seen with the iPad, the old chargers are insufficient to charge the iPad and use it at the same time. If they change the dock connector, it could be to support higher power draws as well. Though this seems unlikely. Most device dock connectors, past and present are incredibly fragile, so some variant of the mag-safe connector would be a welcome change, though what I'd expect from Apple is to make the dock connector magnetically held in place, but designed in a way to prevent pocket-fires (caused by contact of the dock connector with change and keys.)

post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

I wouldn't want to have an Intel chip in my next iPhone by the way, Intel is nowhere near the performance per watt that ARM chips get.

 

 

Intel has the rights to manufacture ARM devices, last I read.  They might choose not to do so - they don't really seem to want to be used as "just a fab" - but legally there's nothing preventing them from doing so.

post #21 of 34
Really Tallest you need to get over this IPhone numbering problem you have. Apple will call it whatever they damn well feel like calling the next iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's because it's already shipping.
It better darn well be different. LTE's such a leech on battery (and a faster processor would be, as well) that if the battery isn't changed at all, we'll have serious usability issues.
post #22 of 34
First; off every product ever made experience issues in ramp up. That is what product development and R&D is all about.

Second; Apple has been shipping product on Samsungs 32/28 nm node for some time now. Production is ramping up for the lower power SoC. However this really isn't a huge concern, rather it is the LTE networking hardware that has had power draw issues. The LTE chips come via TSMC and they have had significant issues with ramp up of their smaller nodes.

Third; performance per watt will become a very interesting discussion as Intel actually beats ARM on performance per watt with Ivy Bridge. However that is a big chip that can't go into a cell phone due to its power usage. What this indicates though is that Intel could potentially dip below Arm in power usage with a spin of Atom that leverages everything they have learned about low power at 22nm. The problem is that Atom is far from being the small SoC solution that Apple needs. In fact it often looks like Intel has zero interest in doing the high integration chips need for the cell phone industry. Intel talks up a good story but I've seen no credible sign that they really are going after cell phones.

Fourth; I don't see Apple going intel in tablets of cell phones anytime soon. They are basically terrible solutions. One issue is Intels reluctance to do custom spins. SoC are in reality the printed circuit boards of the 80's & 90's, it is here where the likes of Apple can add their IP to make unique and competitive products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post

The SoC is not still on Samsung's 45nm? I guess soon Apple will have to switch to Intel (again) for performance/watt reasons and I would rather an Intel chip than a Samsung in my next iPhone.
post #23 of 34

Doesn't Apple produce all their batteries themselves at Apple Japan?

 

I seem to remember reading about that after the big earthquake/tsunami, because there were concerns they wouldn't be able to keep up production...
 

post #24 of 34
Quote:
The SoC is not still on Samsung's 45nm? I guess soon Apple will have to switch to Intel (again) for performance/watt reasons and I would rather an Intel chip than a Samsung in my next iPhone.







The A5 is not a samsung chip. It is manufactured to apples specs by samsung but samsung has nothing to do with its design
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Really Tallest you need to get over this IPhone numbering problem you have. Apple will call it whatever they damn well feel like calling the next iPhone.

What does Apple have to do with anything? I didn't mention Apple at all. We already know what the next iPhone will be called; I'm concerned now for accuracy within troubleshooting and discussion.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #26 of 34

"Apple experiencing battery issues in development of next iPhone" 

 

No wonder.

 

It's amazing how much juice a Death Ray will chew up.

If you value privacy you can now set DuckDuckGo as your default search engine in iOS and OS X.
Reply
If you value privacy you can now set DuckDuckGo as your default search engine in iOS and OS X.
Reply
post #27 of 34

Here's a fun thing to do. Take out your iPhone 4S or iPhone 4. Now imagine the plastic/glass edges are totally gone, that is, the phone thickness is just the stainless steel band. Boom! iPhone 5 (or, "The Next iPhone"). Of course the battery will be a killer task.

post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

"Quick, rouse up half the population of Kansas and get them to work right now for at least 12 consecutive 12-hour shifts, we need to ship these in September! 

 

"What? What was that? Oh, union laws don't allow that? What do you mean we have to pay overtime? Oh, the packaging staff is on vacation? What do you mean out on maternity leave; I thought she was just fat, she's from Kansas for crying outloud!? What do you mean most of the workers have 45-minute commutes?! Why don't we just build a dorm around the factory here?! 

 

"Okay, that's it, we're moving to China." 

 

I understand your humour, but there's some very bad stuff happening in China right now. Apple is trying to be a positive force, I feel, but everything else in China? Not good, not good at all. You honestly wouldn't want to live there at all. Kids getting run down in the street and women molested in broad daylight and nobody cares. Everyone just trying to make a buck.

 

I'm just thankful I got the hell out of Malaysia. Bad stuff happening in the developing world.

 

Obesity and Laziness in the West is a problem because some (not all) people in the West appreciate truly how amazing life can be in the West. 

post #29 of 34

Maybe it Apple just made a larger phone, as people clearly want (see sales of Android devices) then they wouldn't have to struggle so much to fit a decent battery in there. 

 

I'm really rather tired of how conservative Apple are. It's as if they are deliberately trying to do the opposite of what people want, through sheer pig headedness. And I won't mention their hideous skeumorphic design sense, or this would end up a lengthy rant.

post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Maybe it Apple just made a larger phone, as people clearly want (see sales of Android devices) then they wouldn't have to struggle so much to fit a decent battery in there. 

I'm really rather tired of how conservative Apple are. It's as if they are deliberately trying to do the opposite of what people want, through sheer pig headedness. And I won't mention their hideous skeumorphic design sense, or this would end up a lengthy rant.

D'j'ever stop and think you might not be a representative of "people", or even "most people"?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #31 of 34
The SOC is mainly Samsung design. It just happens Apple now have a naming license. Samsung now use 32nm so obviously its 32nm and far less likely TSMC 28nm. As mentioned this battery thing is bad for the user who loses through enhanced lack of choice.
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


D'j'ever stop and think you might not be a representative of "people", or even "most people"?

 

If most people preferred phones with small screens, then there would be very few phones with large screens.  I invite you to look at exhibit A - the Android phone line-up.

 

PS. Android dominates phone sales. 

post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

PS. Android dominates phone sales. 

Not in the US. Nor, I imagine, in much of western Europe.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

If most people preferred phones with small screens, then there would be very few phones with large screens.  I invite you to look at exhibit A - the Android phone line-up.

PS. Android dominates phone sales. 

I do not think that is how it works. People choose products because of the way they work, in this case, iOS is chosen over Android. If people would choose a larger screen then why did Apple sell so many 4s's? That was the moment the market was flooded with these large screen phones.
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple experiencing battery issues in development of next iPhone - rumor