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RIM's survival until BlackBerry 10 all about cash preservation - Page 2

post #41 of 94

It's sad to see people lose their jobs but it's a fact of life and something we all face from time to time. They're all well-educated intelligent people and no doubt some of them will take the opportunity to start their own successful businesses. It's also hard for top management but they are extremely well compensated and frankly it's their fucking job to observe the way the world rotates and have the courage to pivot in time. The "innovator's dilemma" is such a common pattern that it's almost a cliché. They've been teaching it at Harvard for years. I have very little sympathy for them.

post #42 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Ballmer on the other hand....


Not a fan of his. But, with his billions, he needs no sympathy from anyone. I have a small degree of admiration because he sure does not need to continue in his pressure cooker of a job. Why not retire like his brother Bob M. at Apple?

post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

At this stage RIM would have to pay me $500 to even touch a Playbook.
What nobody seems to talk about is how the BES value proposition eroded. At first everybody was like, oh, can't use iPhone, corporate email security is lousy. Then, a few years ago, the wheels totally came off the BES stuff, suddenly iPhone was everywhere in corporate.
Why has RIM not addressed this fundamental issue?

Research in Motion hasn't addressed the fundamental issue because they are a one trick pony. One heck of a trick but once another pony learned the trick the trick was unimpressive especially since the other pony had dozens of tricks.

Beyond that, there just isn't a significant list of features and functions that Apple iPhone can't provide from secure emails and messaging to enterprise device management without an expensive infrastructure.
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

It's sad to see people lose their jobs but it's a fact of life and something we all face from time to time. They're all well-educated intelligent people and no doubt some of them will take the opportunity to start their own successful businesses. It's also hard for top management but they are extremely well compensated and frankly it's their fucking job to observe the way the world rotates and have the courage to pivot in time. The "innovator's dilemma" is such a common pattern that it's almost a cliché. They've been teaching it at Harvard for years. I have very little sympathy for them.


And these people of who teach it, the likes of Clay Christensen, how many wildly successful and innovative companies have they spearheaded?

post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

I saw a guy in a suit on the train with a BB. My ^sstard elitism aside, I did feel sadness for him. Like I do for Bill Gates now. At least in the tech world, it is sad to see a giant like that now be so, so very lost.
In the case of RIM, it is game over. Steve came on a conference call, a very rare thing, I think in 2009/2010 or something, and said that they just "passed BlackBerry", and that "they would never catch up". I remember exactly where I was when listening to the audio stream.
I honestly at that point thought it was trash talk by Steve. But, well... Vindication is a dish best served with soufflé. [Yes I'm pushing my vindication theme here]

I've learned in hindsight that Steve Jobs was incredibly prescient about technology. He sees where things are going and he got very good at betting on where the "ball" was going to be in 5+ years. Go back and watch the videos of Steve talking about technology to Walt Mossberg at D from years past. And he was willing to make a bet on which technologies would be legacy and when, and he was willing to risk being wrong about it. Usually he was right. The decline of Flash, The ascent of HTML5. The success of the tablet. He predicted that Mac Finder would be just an app for pros, but that it would someday not be the "face" of Mac OS. iOS Springboard is already a step in that direction. His description of cloud computing back in 1997 WWDC seems to foretell iCloud a decade later. The average person would probably misunderstand him.

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post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Mmmm... Maybe MS has another VP that they want to outsource ala Elop.   

 

I suspect that Sinofsky might be a prime candidate!


I like how Sinofsky skipped across the stage to fetch another Surface when the first one froze. Very reminiscent of Floop from Spy Kids.

post #47 of 94

RIM's cash will keep it on life support until it's sold - by the end of this year. from the buyer's point of view, the fewer RIM employees, the better. bye-bye, folks.

 

the auction has already started.

post #48 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbit View Post

Isn't cutting your workforce counter-productive? )

Not always.

When you get into a financial crisis like this, you re-evaluate all of your options and then focus solely on the things which will contribute to survival. A lot of 'nice to have' things go away. For example, if you have multiple product lines or multiple markets, you might drop a a product line or market if it is not generating cash or have the potential to do so soon. In that case, cutting dead wood can be positive. Simply telling the people in that department to work harder may slow the bleeding, but won't stop it.

Of course, I have no idea if RIM is making sensible cuts or not.
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post #49 of 94

Blackberry 10 delayed until Q1 of 2013. Might as well close the doors now and at least walk away with 'some' pride. Nothing like continuing to stay at the blackjack table after you've had 10 losing hands and starting to pull out the credit card.

post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

RIM's cash will keep it on life support until it's sold - by the end of this year. from the buyer's point of view, the fewer RIM employees, the better. bye-bye, folks.

 

the auction has already started.


And who would want to buy RIM? Microsoft? RIM could not release WP8 phones for at least another six months (look how long it took Nokia after their announcements). And would RIM WP8 phones really so much better than Nokia WP8 phones? Would that justify it for Microsoft to keep RIM afloat while their BB OS phone sales collapsed even faster (just see Symbian sales at Nokia)?

post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Feel sadness for Bill Gates?  The work he is doing well may be the greatest humanitarian work ever done. We should feel proud of him, not sad for him. And I don't think Gates is lost in any sense of the word.

Correct.

 

If history repeats itself, Bill Gates' lasting impact on society will be his humanitarian and charitable work. Whether it be someone like Andrew Carnegie or Albert Nobel, they are not best known for how they got their riches, but what they did with that money.

 

Bill Gates was a ruthless businessman, a trust fund baby that didn't languish on polo fields, but used his combativeness (uh, as well as some excellent family connections that come from being born to a privileged pedigree) to built a Fortune 500 software giant.

 

However, what he's doing with his money is today is from efforts planted in him by his mother and creating his own vision of a better world.

post #52 of 94

Thinking out loud, here...

 

RIMM is selling at a 52-week low of $7.50 with a market cap of $3.6 Billion.

 

I can't find what RIMM payed for QNX!

 

 

But here's the thought:  Both MS and Google seem to be PORPing -- Piss On youR Partners, of late.

 

What if some profitable, but estranged Partner were to:

 

1) Buy QNX from RIMM

 

2) License use of QNX back to RIMM (free for products in development)

 

3) Build their [the former MS or Google Partner's] own hardware, going forward based on the QNX OS.

 

 

Done right, it could provide opportunities for RIMM and the estranged Partner:

 

1) Rim could service near term, have the option to continue forward with hardware and possibly transform itself into a services company

 

2) The Partner could have a powerful in-house OS going forward with no dependencies/fees/competition to Google or MS.

 

 

As I understand it, QNX has already demonstrated the capability to run Android apps -- so either the users could install them from whatever source... Or, developers could be offered an additional marketplace (by the Partner) for Android/QNX apps... and an incentive to offer native QNX apps.

 

How much would a deal like that be worth?

 

Thoughts?


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 6/29/12 at 10:42am
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post #53 of 94

RIM are a bunch of fools. When the iPhone first got released, they were in complete denial and they thought that Apple was lying, because RIM saw the iPhone as being impossible. Since then it has only gone one way for them, and the way is not up.

 

[b]RIM thought Apple was lying on iPhone in 2007[/b]

 

[i]RIM had a complete internal panic when Apple unveiled the iPhone in 2007, a former employee revealed this weekend. The BlackBerry maker is now known to have held multiple all-hands meetings on January 10 that year, a day after the iPhone was on stage, and to have made outlandish claims about its features. Apple was effectively accused of lying as it was supposedly impossible that a device could have such a large touchscreen but still get a usable lifespan away from a power outlet.[/i]


http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/12/27/rim.thought.apple.was.lying.on.iphone.in.2007/#ixzz1zCnvV15C

 

 

post #54 of 94
LMAO. I pee'd a little bit.
post #55 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


And these people of who teach it, the likes of Clay Christensen, how many wildly successful and innovative companies have they spearheaded?

How many eggs have you laid before criticizing an omelette?

post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Correct.

 

If history repeats itself, Bill Gates' lasting impact on society will be his humanitarian and charitable work. Whether it be someone like Andrew Carnegie or Albert Nobel, they are not best known for how they got their riches, but what they did with that money.

 

Bill Gates was a ruthless businessman, a trust fund baby that didn't languish on polo fields, but used his combativeness (uh, as well as some excellent family connections that come from being born to a privileged pedigree) to built a Fortune 500 software giant.

 

However, what he's doing with his money is today is from efforts planted in him by his mother and creating his own vision of a better world.

 

Steel, Dynamite, Complete lack of ethics...

 

Some would say that they're all Robber Barons!

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post #57 of 94

What they should do is give an in-house 3 weeks training, for lets say 500 developers. Charge $1000, run it for 3 months and bam you have 2 million in cash. I'm willing to pay a thousand if i can get to play with that device for awhile. Of course that won't save them, but it increases the user bases of developers.

post #58 of 94

the biggest thing killing RIM is BYOD. use to be any place you needed a smart phone, they handed you a BB.

post #59 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

How many eggs have you laid before criticizing an omelette?


I've never criticized an omelette, to its face or behind its back. Sorry, but you laid an egg with that analogy.

post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

the biggest thing killing RIM is BYOD. use to be any place you needed a smart phone, they handed you a BB.


Not sure I agree completely. The problem, IMHO, is that they realized too late that a true smartphone was a computer. The leadership there simply could not design a computer, particularly the software. QNX was a really good software outfit. It's shocking that they can't have BB10 working by now.

post #61 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4mb4 View Post

the biggest thing killing RIM is BYOD. use to be any place you needed a smart phone, they handed you a BB.

 

You could say that, if their offerings were compelling...  They aren't, so it isn't.

 

I would say the opposite... The thing that is killing RIM is they catered to the corporate purchaser (and the teenage texter).  Just listened to last week's 5x5 with Horace Deidu... The key item horace noted was, once you stop making a product people want, and start making a product that a procurement officer or a IT operations guys likes, you lose in today's mobile market (He was arguing that the day Apple formally creates a product that 'appeals to corporate types,' they have lost their laser focus 'on what the user wants').

 

BYOD is just the classic case cost containment from the opposite end.     Security not withstanding (I'm a security guy... BB basically grokked security... Apple is doing 'just enough' (curated apps, central management)... Android isn't there),   If you can sandbox your business onto the applications, and remote wipe it, that's 'good enough.' (until we get a iOS virus), and we don't have to buy you a phone, a plan, and the support of it.   That's a $1500/year per employee.   BYOD plus enterprise management  plus VPN is good enough.

post #62 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelp View Post

What they should do is give an in-house 3 weeks training, for lets say 500 developers. Charge $1000, run it for 3 months and bam you have 2 million in cash. I'm willing to pay a thousand if i can get to play with that device for awhile. Of course that won't save them, but it increases the user bases of developers.

OK, let's work through that.

EVEN IF you could find 2,000 developers who wanted to pay $1,000 for training in a dying platform, you have to subtract all your costs - which would eat up a big chunk of that. And even if it didn't, $2 M would keep RIM alive for a couple of days at best.
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post #63 of 94

It may have been said before...this ship has sailed. Jobs said,"you have to be 5-10 years ahead in innovation to survive in the tech industry."

 

They got complacent and Apple ate their lunch! Sorry.

 

Gateway, Palm, Motorola, RIM, Nokia, Dell, Sony, HP and eventually MS. These companies are getting slammed from both ends....By Google for those who only buy stuff because it's cheap and Apple who only buy Apple stuff because it's great! :)

 

PS. Most of the companies above can blame MS for for the troubles/demise by providing a s**t horrible Windows OS!


Edited by christopher126 - 6/29/12 at 1:10pm
post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Research in Motion hasn't addressed the fundamental issue because they are a one trick pony. One heck of a trick but once another pony learned the trick the trick was unimpressive especially since the other pony had dozens of tricks.

Beyond that, there just isn't a significant list of features and functions that Apple iPhone can't provide from secure emails and messaging to enterprise device management without an expensive infrastructure.

I wanted to say something along those lines but your remarks are rather concise so I'll just give it a +1

 

I think Nokia will fall for the same reasons.

 

This is all about the big software companies, which makes sense. I hope MS actually gets their act together so at least it will be a 3 way competition.

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post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post
To me, companies that have policies that have continued to support RIM are almost as dumb as RIM itself.

Best line of the year! :)

 

That's how I look at companies/people that are using windows and Android products! 

 

Good show! :)

post #66 of 94

Quote: "With few exceptions, once started, downward spirals have often proved very difficult to reverse."

 

And then there was Apple in the 1990s...Exhibit A of one of those said 'few exceptions.'
 

post #67 of 94

Blackberry 10 will be delayed another 6+ months?

 

Bye bye, RIM, it's been boring knowing you.

post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Thinking out loud, here...

 

RIMM is selling at a 52-week low of $7.50 with a market cap of $3.6 Billion.

 

I can't find what RIMM payed for QNX!

 

 

But here's the thought:  Both MS and Google seem to be PORPing -- Piss On youR Partners, of late.

 

What if some profitable, but estranged Partner were to:

 

1) Buy QNX from RIMM

 

2) License use of QNX back to RIMM (free for products in development)

 

3) Build their [the former MS or Google Partner's] own hardware, going forward based on the QNX OS.

 

 

Done right, it could provide opportunities for RIMM and the estranged Partner:

 

1) Rim could service near term, have the option to continue forward with hardware and possibly transform itself into a services company

 

2) The Partner could have a powerful in-house OS going forward with no dependencies/fees/competition to Google or MS.

 

 

As I understand it, QNX has already demonstrated the capability to run Android apps -- so either the users could install them from whatever source... Or, developers could be offered an additional marketplace (by the Partner) for Android/QNX apps... and an incentive to offer native QNX apps.

 

How much would a deal like that be worth?

 

Thoughts?

And why would this partner not have bought WebOS when HP dropped the ball? WebOS was clearly far more complete than QNX or BB10 is now.

post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

And why would this partner not have bought WebOS when HP dropped the ball? WebOS was clearly far more complete than QNX or BB10 is now.


Or why wouldn't it just adopt Android?

post #70 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

And why would this partner not have bought WebOS when HP dropped the ball? WebOS was clearly far more complete than QNX or BB10 is now.

 

Simple answer: because the partner's OS provider was not, then, making hardware in unfair competition with partner.

 

I, too think WebOS was a missed opportunity.  Especially by HP.  HP was trying to get the best of both worlds by incorporating WebOS on the desktop as an extension.

 

I think that this approach would've been more successful than MS' attempt to cram Windows 8/ Metro down everyone's throat.

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post #71 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


Or why wouldn't it just adopt Android?

 

Would you build a partnership by basing your product upon an OS provided by a supplier who is building a product in competition with you?

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post #72 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuk View Post

What key features are included in crack berry 10 ... That will lure the crack berry heads back

Remember that RIM has promised to deliver "uncompromised mobile web experience including Flash" for their playbook and BB10 devices? Now, Flash would not be on iOS, WinPhone and Android. So only RIM who still promises Flash, is that right?

 

On top of that, RIM is offering much more than the competition:

- "Flow, Glance & Peek" would be gesture on steroids which is combination of MeeGo and webOS which includes live tiles and an "outdated" icon grid style of home screen.

- "True multitasking" so user can "flow" forever.

- "Predictive" virtual keyboard.

- "Time machine" camera.

- "Security" of BIS/BES network - assuming RIM could integrate this to BB10 platform.

- "BBM" is still messaging on steroids assuming RIM could integrate BIS/BES to BB10 platform.

- "Data compression" for 2G network in the 3rd world countries, again assuming BIS/BES could be integrated to BB10 platform.

- "Superior battery life".

- Greatest physical keyboard on some model. Maybe they should add stylus model.

- Abundant apps on bb10 platform, plus they could use Android app using App player.

- Partnership with Amazon for cloud drive and for music & movie store.

 

So Wake Up because Amateur Hour Is Over. Be Bold.

 

Unluckily, it is still a vapourware that is very very late to the 6th generation of iOS.


Edited by xsulux - 6/29/12 at 4:06pm
post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

...

 

This is all about the big software companies, which makes sense. I hope MS actually gets their act together so at least it will be a 3 way competition.

 

This is OT for this thread, but what do you think will happen if MS fails to get [back] into the smartphone and tablet market -- the post PC market?

 

Related question: what do  Windows developers do when the fastest-growing segment of the market is not available to them?

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post #74 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


And these people of who teach it, the likes of Clay Christensen, how many wildly successful and innovative companies have they spearheaded?

Well this question is beyond dumb. I'll let you work out the logical flaw of the inference.

 

Christensen is a pretty amazing person actually. His company is called Innobits I think.

post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

Well this question is beyond dumb. I'll let you work out the logical flaw of the inference.

 

Christensen is a pretty amazing person actually. His company is called Innobits I think.

 

You are welcome to disagree with me. But there is most assuredly no logical flaw in my "inference" (of course, one could argue you have introduced one by imbuing a question with an inference, but I am not down for that type of word games).

 

Christensen is indeed an impressive smart person, and a great speaker.  His analysis is often insightful.  But impressively smart, insightful people do not necessarily spearhead wildly successful and innovative companies. You may be thinking of Innosight, which is a consulting company that makes money for him by spreading his gospel (more or less).

post #76 of 94

RIM is an ice cube and so is Nokia for that matter.

post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Apple wrote that story already...   

And given where RIM is at... There is no 'insanely great' savior in the wings.   

When I look at RIM, their story more parallels AOL, but with worse management.

Nokia... now... they could/should make a comeback worthy of a story and be great for the mobile industry.

Interesting that you mention Nokia, because they are now rated as "junk" by the ratings companies. Whether they can last long enough to pay off the large amounts in debt that will be due in early 2014 and later is being debated.

They are running through cash quickly despite the money Microsoft has given them. They will be laying off another 10,000 workers.
post #78 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm... Maybe MS has another VP that they want to outsource ala Elop.   

I suspect that Sinofsky might be a prime candidate!

If the treo of products he's in charge of, Win 8, Surface and Wp8 are seen as failures, you may get your wish.
post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Thinking out loud, here...

RIMM is selling at a 52-week low of $7.50 with a market cap of $3.6 Billion.

I can't find what RIMM payed for QNX!


But here's the thought:  Both MS and Google seem to be PORPing -- Piss On youR Partners, of late.

What if some profitable, but estranged Partner were to:

1) Buy QNX from RIMM

2) License use of QNX back to RIMM (free for products in development)

3) Build their [the former MS or Google Partner's] own hardware, going forward based on the QNX OS.


Done right, it could provide opportunities for RIMM and the estranged Partner:

1) Rim could service near term, have the option to continue forward with hardware and possibly transform itself into a services company

2) The Partner could have a powerful in-house OS going forward with no dependencies/fees/competition to Google or MS.


As I understand it, QNX has already demonstrated the capability to run Android apps -- so either the users could install them from whatever source... Or, developers could be offered an additional marketplace (by the Partner) for Android/QNX apps... and an incentive to offer native QNX apps.

How much would a deal like that be worth?

Thoughts?

The partner would be taking a big risk.

There is no way to know now if BB10 is having too many problems to ever become viable. I'm beginning to think it is. They've had major problems integrating it into their systems. It's delayed three times now. It will be three years since they bought it in early 2010. That's a year delay. What if, as I think it might, it's not ready in January 2013?

What if it is, but no one cares?

How much would this partner pay for it? Will they pay only for a finished and shipping product?

There are a lot of questions here, and no good answers.
post #80 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151002/rims-survival-until-blackberry-10-all-about-cash-preservation/40#post_2137189"]

Here's a really good article from 2009. You'll love this one:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/12/technology/blackberry_research_in_motion.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009081709
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