Originally Posted by Nightcrawler
Malaysia's discrimination is not racism, it is a sort of affirmative action that was envisioned by the late british colonists, before they let Malaysia into independence, to help the natives and Malays to develop better so that they would eventually be equally capable as the indian and chinese communities that came later but were far more developed:
At the time of Malaya's independence from the British in 1957, the population included many first or second-generation immigrants who had come to fill colonial manpower needs as indentured labourers
. Chinese entrepreneurs, who typically settled in urban areas, played a significant role in the commercial sector. TheCommunities Liaison Committee
(CLC), comprising leading politicians from different racial backgrounds, supported the promotion of economic equality for the Malays, conditional on political equality for the non-Malays. CLC member E.E.C. Thuraisingham
later said, "I and others believed that the backward Malays should be given a better deal. Malays should be assisted to attain parity with non-Malays to forge a united Malayan Nation of equals."
As a result, Article 153
of the Constitution states that,
It shall be the responsibility of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong
to safeguard the special position of the Malays and natives of any of the States of Sabah and Sarawak and the legitimate interests of other communities in accordance with the provisions of this Article.
The Malays back then were backward, uneducated and relatively unskilled compared to the chinese, indian immigrants and so affirmative action-policy was put into the constitution to change that.
It was an overwhelming success, today the Malays are not only equal but even more developed than the chinese and indian communities.
But today the Malays don't need affirmative action anymore and it would be wise to change the constitution accordingly, ie. to put a sun-set-clause in. The current government though is invested in the affirmative action-policy as abolishing it would cost them many votes and their coalition would break down, but the opposition who promised to abolish the affirmative action when in power could do that. For that to happen all non-Malays would have to vote for the opposition, after all they comprise half of Malaysia's citizens.
But apparently many non-malays still vote for the current government (maybe bribed?).
If anything can be learned from this it is that affirmative action is useful and sometimes necessary but without a sunset-clause the danger is that it becomes eternal and then what was once a good policy to achieve equality for a undeveloped community (ie. positive discriminiation) turns into negative discrimination once the undeveloped community has achieved equality and even more.
Thank you very much for taking the time to understand the fundamental flaw of Malaysia. A once proud country with great potential now sliding backwards in history. "Affirmative Action" has gone well past its use-by date. Up to the year 1995, I can accept, but most citizens never thought it would go on forever. It is institutionalised racism now, at best.
As for the Agong (King) and the Sultans of the states, they do f**k all nowadays. They don't even protect the rights of the underprivileged Malays. Note that a lot of the unrest in Malaysia is from Malays themselves because they see some Malays with connections to government live the good life, and many, many Malays are missing out.
Originally Posted by SDW2001
Agreed. In fact, we all experience discrimination to a degree. Anecdotally speaking, I'm starting to notice that white males are being passed over in my field...in favor of women and minorities. I think is is pretty common as more and more employers, colleges and other organizations become more "diversity" obsessed.
1. Got it.
3. The way people look affects others' judgement. It's just the way it is.
4. That's not reverse discrimination. That's racial stereotyping. Racial, Ethnic or Religious discrimination would be if you are denied something (anything..a freedom, a job, entrance to an establishment) as a result.
5. It doesn't seem that you're willing to place it aside. When you talk of being discriminated against because people assign certain stereotypes to you (in this case, positive ones such as being good with tech), that's not placing it aside. I don't know what "tolerance of intolerance" is to you, exactly. To me, it would include the fact that, say, the UK seems to look the other way as radical Muslims use the country and a fundraising base of operations, all the while demanding that the UK (London, England to be exact) bow to their cultural "sensibilities."
6. As much as race is an issue here in the U.S., it seems to me that it is a much bigger problem in the region of the world you're referencing. We are accused of anti-Muslim policies and racism in general. But in certain places in the Muslim world, racism (and worse) seems commonplace. A little off topic here...but sometimes I think that for all our problems, what may save the U.S. is its diversity and blend of cultures. We still have racism, but overall our culture tolerates people of all different backgrounds exceptionally well. I assume this can only be a strength.
But that doesn't mean you're the only one here that experiences racism or religious discrimination. It doesn't mean one has to be Jewish to understand.
Very good points. Perhaps I'm not willing to place it aside. But I agree with you in essence. The UK situation and the Muslim world is exactly what I mean about tolerance for intolerance. I believe the Muslim world is exploiting the non-Muslim world. Yes the US's core strength for this century is diversity. Never let go of that.
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
Discrimination based on race is racism.
Affirmative action based on race IS RACISM.
Just because it's instituted at the governmental level doesn't change anything. If race is considered in making a decision or forming opinion, then that's racism.
Originally Posted by SDW2001
I happen to agree with you. Many
others do not.
For the Malaysian situation "affirmative action" could be accepted from the 1950s to the early 1990s. Beyond that point, and today, a reasonable person will consider it outright codified, political-religious-socio-economic racism. Do we need to have separate water coolers for Malays and Non Malays for people to then accept this is racism?
Don't forget religious persecution and lack of religious freedom, again, for Malays themselves. Can you imagine being born, and everyone, from local, state to country, telling you, and forcing you, that you can never be anything ~but~ a Muslim? That you will never in your country have the right to eat openly in a restaurant during Ramadhan, even if you don't believe in any Abrahamic religions?
There's that line used in movies about cons never wanting to go back to prison. Now I understand it. It is up to you to decide whether I'm hyping it too much, but, I will fight to my dying breath never to go back and live and work in Malaysia ever again. Never again. Just to visit my parents and so on, nothing more.There are big changes coming to the world, my friends, and the time is now, to draw a line in the sand, and stand for what you believe in, against the onslaught of human depravation. For the astrologically inclined, the Age of Aquarius is upon us, a transition that will take a few hundred years, which possibly started a hundred years ago, but certainly intensifying soon. Those that cling to the "old ways", I don't think they are "evil", but merely of a previous age and not consciously (though perhaps subconsciously) aware of humanity's current point in history.
Maybe I'm bashing political correctness for the sake of it. Maybe all I'm trying to say, is, I will say what I think I have the right to say, and let the chips fall where they may.
Peace. And Prepare.Edited by sr2012 - 7/10/12 at 4:07am