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Italy threatens to suspend Apple operations in warranty dispute

post #1 of 101
Thread Starter 
Italy's marketing authority has threatened to temporarily close Apple's Italian operations for up to 30 days over laws related to product warranties.

Italy's AGCM competition and marketing authority has warned Apple that it could face more fines and have is Italian operations suspended if it does not offer customers a free two-year warranty, according to Reuters. The group has given Apple 30 days to respond.

The organization has said that Apple has failed to meet its requirements and offer customers a warranty period of two years. Apple's standard product warranty is free for one year, and customers can pay for additional AppleCare coverage if they so choose.

If the AGCM finds that Apple has not begun to comply with Italian law, the iPhone maker could see its operations in Italy suspended for up to 30 days, according to the report.

Late last year, the watchdog group fined Apple 900,000 euros, or $1.2 million, for "unfair commercial practices" related to product warranties. Apple appealed the decision, but ultimately lost that decision this March.

AppleCare Italy
Apple's Italian AppleCare webpage. | Source: Apple


The AGCM found that Apple had pushed its paid two-year AppleCare warranty on customers despite acknowledging that EU laws require companies to offer the same protections without charge. Apple complied with the December order and began informing customers through its online storefront of the mandatory two-year warranty.

However, with its latest statement reported on Monday, the AGCM has said that Apple has failed to comply with the antitrust requests tied to the original $1.2 million fine.
post #2 of 101
Let 'em try.

That's just what the EU needs right now; fewer jobs.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #3 of 101

Raise the European price and include the two year warranty, problem solved.

post #4 of 101
"The AGCM found that Apple had pushed its paid two-year AppleCare warranty on customers despite acknowledging that EU laws require companies to offer the same protections without charge. Apple complied with the December order and began informing customers through its online storefront of the mandatory two-year warranty."

So exactly how did Apple not comply?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #5 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Let 'em try.
That's just what the EU needs right now; fewer jobs.

Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.

We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business
post #6 of 101
Put up the prices to cover the additional warranty, or keep the prices the same and put a cover charge on the lineup for the AppleCare specialist.
post #7 of 101
This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.
post #8 of 101

From the comments, seems like people don't know what's the issue here.

 

The issue is that Apple wants to price discriminate. For the same product, some are willing to pay more and some are only willing to pay less. Like storage, AppleCare is an effective way to discriminate and that's why Apple wants to keep having it. That's why all these suggestions of 'just charge a high price for the product' doesn't work for Apple, because then Apple will lose business on those people who're going to not buy the product because they don't want to pay for the warranty. 

post #9 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.
We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business

LMFAO oh let me catch my breath...... I needed that laugh.

So please enlighten the us as to why the eu is the laughing stock of the financial systems of first world countries.... I don't remember any American stats asking for bailouts.

So pompous......

Run along now, the IMF Called your number again, looks like more money is ready for you.


Edit--
and-any
Edited by Market_Player - 7/2/12 at 11:32am
post #10 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

We're doing ok in the EU.

 

No you're not. The EU is in deep shit. I'm hoping for a total collapse of the EURO soon, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They're living on borrowed time. The EURO is a failed experiment, and those European countries that haven't adopted the idiotic EURO are surely happy today.

post #11 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

We're doing ok in the EU.

Sure you are. 💸

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #12 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post


Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.
We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business

You're doing ok in the EU? are you kidding me? 130% in a very active banking sector, one which isn't broken... unlike the EU banking sector

post #13 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post


Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.
We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business

…but he does make sense. Apple will put up the price, Italians (if they can afford it cos lets face it, they aint rolling in money right this second) will shop in the neighbouring state, less taxes for the government, less jobs for the people. Less meddling = more money.

post #14 of 101

Italy needs Apple FAR MORE than Apple needs Italy.  

post #15 of 101

I practically never buy extended warranties because if I did I'd spend way more money on them than I'd ever lose in replacement costs when the occasional gadget went wrong. They're only offered because it's financially viable to offer the extended coverage, which means the products they cover must be - statistically at least - good enough not to need the cover. Therefore, if you own lots of gadgets, it's hardly worth having the cover.

 

With that said, I don't know what the specific beef this Italian agency has with Apple on the basis of the compliance requirements: it must be something other than the specific two year warranty term if Apple has already complied with that. Sounds like brinkmanship to me though on the part of the agency. 

post #16 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Sure you are. 💸

Let's not be so smug here.... The US is also a house of cards.  We've just kicked the can down the road a few more years.   We are in dire straights  

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #17 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Let's not be so smug here.... The US is also a house of cards.  We've just kicked the can down the road a few more years.   We are in dire straights  

There's a fundamental difference that makes the US unable to collapse.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #18 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


💸

 

I see all these people posting these boxes without anything in them, because that's how it's showing up for me. I guess I'm being discriminated against, because I happen to be on Snow Leopard at the moment. Is that a Lion thing only?

post #19 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Let 'em try.
That's just what the EU needs right now; fewer jobs.

What the world doesn't need is your ilk who seek to destroy it for short-term, meaningless 'profits'.
1 year warranty is a joke and disturbing. If Apple cant produce a product that it can stand behind for at least 2 years - then they have no business producing landfill fodder and leaving others to deal with the waste.

Good on Italy. I hope other countries do the same and end this insanity.
post #20 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

Put up the prices to cover the additional warranty, or keep the prices the same and put a cover charge on the lineup for the AppleCare specialist.

what additional warranty?

 

it's the law, has been for years

 

apple's staff aren't ignorant fuckwits are they? they know the law, they already priced for it, if they didn't then they should be sacked for incompetence

 

apple chooses to offer its products in the eu, and like every other vendor it has to meet its obligations

 

if apple is misleading customers, it deserves to be punished, just like any other company would be for doing the same thing

 

selling worthless extended warranties was a widespread practice for years, but at last regulators have been punishing violators, which is a good thing

post #21 of 101

Do you also not buy health and life insurance? Because statistically, those don't make sense either. the reason people buy them is because being the unlucky one is too expensive and/or catastrophic. If you are willing to take that risk that's great, but don't pretend it has no value.

 

All that said, I'm not sure what Italy's problem is. It sounds like Apple has complied with their requirements. IIRC, the consumer protection law at issue is the same throughout the EU, and no other EU country has taken issue with Apple about it.

 

Italy has much deeper financial problems to work on than this, as one of the PIIGS.

post #22 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151042/italy-threatens-to-suspend-apple-operations-in-warranty-dispute#post_2138594"]
I see all these people posting these boxes without anything in them, because that's how it's showing up for me. I guess I'm being discriminated against, because I happen to be on Snow Leopard at the moment. Is that a Lion thing only?

Snow Leopard doesn't have emoji?

81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

What the world doesn't need is your ilk who seek to destroy it for short-term, meaningless 'profits'.
1 year warranty is a joke and disturbing. If Apple cant produce a product that it can stand behind for at least 2 years - then they have no business producing landfill fodder and leaving others to deal with the waste.

Yeah, because that's certainly the case. It can't possibly be anything else. You're obviously right.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #23 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

"The AGCM found that Apple had pushed its paid two-year AppleCare warranty on customers despite acknowledging that EU laws require companies to offer the same protections without charge. Apple complied with the December order and began informing customers through its online storefront of the mandatory two-year warranty."
So exactly how did Apple not comply?

They didn't make it clear that AppleCare doesn't enable 4G LTE in Australia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151042/italy-threatens-to-suspend-apple-operations-in-warranty-dispute#post_2138594"]
I see all these people posting these boxes without anything in them, because that's how it's showing up for me. I guess I'm being discriminated against, because I happen to be on Snow Leopard at the moment. Is that a Lion thing only?

It's Emoji. If you have an iDevice they will probably show up.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #24 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sessamoid View Post

Do you also not buy health and life insurance? 

 

As far as the first one goes, people will have no choice anymore, otherwise they will be taxed/fined, in the US that is. :)

post #25 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Snow Leopard doesn't have emoji?
81
 

 

That one showed up fine.

post #26 of 101
The deceptive practice is selling the AppleCare warranty package where consumer protection laws in the E.U. mandate product warranties.

Ultimately, Apple will have to comply with the consumer protection laws and either cease offering AppleCare or simply assign an AppleCare warranty, without a separate fee, to all Apple products.

We have similar kinds of laws in the United States, albeit not for most consumer products. Nearly every state has a "lemon law" applicable to defective automobiles (typically applicable only to new vehicles) and the federal Magnussen-Moss Act.

Apple has no business breaking the law. Apple needs to wrap AppleCare with the product and move on.
post #27 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's Emoji. If you have an iDevice they will probably show up.

 

I'm on my Blackbook at the moment. The first one tallskill posted didn't show up, but the second one did.

post #28 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151042/italy-threatens-to-suspend-apple-operations-in-warranty-dispute#post_2138604"]
That one showed up fine.

That was an image. 😛

Oh, that's nice… your name breaks Huddler's formatting.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #29 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir View Post

This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.

 

But I don't want a 2 year warranty.  I replace my phone each year, tablet each year, laptop each year(ish).  Putting up money for a warranty for the 2nd year of ownership at the day of purchase is a waste of MY money.  And I'd never get that money back on resale.  Thinking that extending the duration of service and fault replacement by a year won't raise the price is silly.  The word free means hide the cost somewhere else.  Can I decide what I want to do with my money without having a law tell me what I must do when purchasing from the marketplace?  This is one place I don't want the government to protect me.  It's just another way for a politician to tell me he/she/it has "given" me some new right or benefit.

post #30 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

Raise the European price and include the two year warranty, problem solved.

Two years is mandatory by law, or at least in The Netherlands. And raising the price wouldn't be a good thing: Apple already sells at odd FX rate. Case in point: RMBP $2199 (ex VAT), in NL it's € 2279 incl. VAT. Currently 1 USD = € 0.80 or some-such. They do sometimes, change the price, it least the MBA used to be $ 999 / € 1049 but dropped to € 949, possibly because of user response - I don't know.
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post #31 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


That was an image. 😛
Oh, that's nice… your name breaks Huddler's formatting.

 

That's still shows up as a rectangle for me, with nothing inside of it. I guess I'll take a deeper look at preferences later, though it looks like a new Lion feature, because I don't see any option for Emoji when I quickly checked language & text preferences.

post #32 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151042/italy-threatens-to-suspend-apple-operations-in-warranty-dispute#post_2138603"]
As far as the first one goes, people will have no choice anymore, otherwise they will be taxed/fined, in the US that is. 1smile.gif

Try reading the Act.


http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/

While a penalty is assessed for those people who opt not to purchase coverage, the Act expressly excludes any civil or criminal action to enforce payment of the penalty. No liens, no nothing.
post #33 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post

But I don't want a 2 year warranty.  I replace my phone each year, tablet each year, laptop each year(ish).  Putting up money for a warranty for the 2nd year of ownership at the day of purchase is a waste of MY money.  And I'd never get that money back on resale.  Thinking that extending the duration of service and fault replacement by a year won't raise the price is silly.  The word free means hide the cost somewhere else.  Can I decide what I want to do with my money without having a law tell me what I must do when purchasing from the marketplace?  This is one place I don't want the government to protect me.  It's just another way for a politician to tell me he/she/it has "given" me some new right or benefit.

Are you planning on destroying last year's phone, tablet, and laptop? No? You're going to give them to somebody or you will sell them. The additional year of warranty coverage is transferred with the device. That transfer of warranty value will be recouped by you at the time of sale or gift.
post #34 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bought_it@AAPL View Post


Try reading the Act.
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/
While a penalty is assessed for those people who opt not to purchase coverage, the Act expressly excludes any civil or criminal action to enforce payment of the penalty. No liens, no nothing.

 

You just gave me a link that is 955 pages long. :)

 

I'm going to pass on reading it, because it doesn't really concern me too much, as I already have coverage. It does seem strange though, that if what you claim is true, that there is no penalty for not paying the penalty, then why should anybody who gets slapped with a penalty bother to pay at all? 

post #35 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bought_it@AAPL View Post


Are you planning on destroying last year's phone, tablet, and laptop? No? You're going to give them to somebody or you will sell them. The additional year of warranty coverage is transferred with the device. That transfer of warranty value will be recouped by you at the time of sale or gift.

It's not my phone, tablet, laptop anymore.  While the warranty transfers, it's of no use to ME - the one who spent the money.  I also wait to buy the AppleCare until it's due for products that I have not upgraded in the past.  This has saved me as well because I've upgraded/modified or accidentally damaged equipment to the point there would be no coverage under warranty - iPhone 4 took a swim, iPad impact dented and slightly cracked the display so I got it repaired 3rd party (iPad replacement would have been $400 - 500 under AppleCare), upgraded MBPs taking little stickers off in the process post 1yr.

 

Again, it's my money and I'd rather maintain the choice.  I may be in the minority but isn't my choice to be protected?

post #36 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh, that's nice… your name breaks Huddler's formatting.

Can't the transition from vBulletin to HuddlerTech be reversed? Seems that no one likes it here @ AI.

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post #37 of 101

At first I struggled to understand why Apple would still be obstinate about this. Then I remembered that a couple other EU countries/consumer protection agencies have the same complaints that they're starting action on.

 

Apple probably receives hundreds of millions in warranty revenues (at least) in Europe. Italy is but a tiny piece. If they give in to them, and with a few others already starting investigations for the same claim, Apple stands a chance that the entire EU will jump in the fray, throwing rocks in the money stream. Extended warranties are considered gravy trains by retailers and so I suppose I'm not surprised that Apple might continue the fight. There's a whole lotta money involved.

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post #38 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Italy needs Apple FAR MORE than Apple needs Italy.  

 

That is true. Apple could pull out of Italy completely, and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

post #39 of 101

IMO it's not just about Italy. Apple's trying to keep this from becoming EU wide...

which it should be if the laws are the same.

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post #40 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

IMO it's not just about Italy. Apple's trying to keep this from becoming EU wide...

which it should be if the laws are the same.

If it were to become EU wide, then I agree with the other posters who stated that Apple should just jack up their prices even more for EU people. Too bad for them.

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