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Google comes to Samsung's aid in patent battle with Apple

post #1 of 94
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Smartphone maker Samsung and Android creator Google are "working closely to create a united front" in the face of legal challenges from Apple, according to a new report.

Samsung has confirmed that it is working with Google to fend of patent infringement claims made by Apple, according to The Korea Times. The announcement marks the first time that Samsung has confirmed it is receiving assistance from Google in its legal battle with Apple.

Years ago, Google publicly announced that it was supporting Android smartphone maker HTC after that company was hit with a lawsuit from Apple. But Google has not publicly indicated any such agreement with Samsung as its patent infringement dispute with Apple has ballooned into multiple lawsuits in numerous countries around the world.

Now Samsung reportedly hopes that Google's assistance will give the Korean electronics maker an advantage in the courtroom against Apple. An unnamed official with Samsung quoted by the Times as saying the company hopes it will be able to earn royalties from Apple.

"The fight is becoming more dramatic and the possibility of a truce in the form of a cross-licensing deal seems to be becoming likely," they were quoted as saying.

Galaxy Nexus


Another industry source also reportedly indicated that Apple's newly earned injunction barring sales of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will cost Samsung about $80 million. The injunction was awarded last week and went into effect almost immediately after Apple posted the necessary $2.6 million bond.

Apple also won another injunction in the U.S. last week against Samsung's Galaxy Nexus smartphone. That handset was co-developed by Samsung and Google, and runs an unmodified version of Google's Android mobile operating system.

Samsung's losses on the Galaxy Nexus could be even greater, as industry sources reportedly indicated that the company could lose up to $120 million if the sales ban extends for two months.
post #2 of 94

Maybe I'll get to say "Now Google has sued someone". ;)

 

I still doubt it tho. This could be anything from a faulty translation to Google joining Samsung in filing a new suit. It will be intersting to see if the report is at all accurate and what it actually means. IMO Google is going to have to involve itself more strongly than it has so far, and sooner rather than later.

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post #3 of 94

Good, now both of them can die together.

post #4 of 94

So, Google fell for the bait Steve promised when he warned Google he was going to go thermonuclear on them. Good! Jobs mentored Brin and Page and lent Schmidt credibility by gifting him a seat on Apple's board and those slimy MFs spit in Jobs' face and stole his intellectual property. Google has lost any mojo it had and is now just a copycat Microsoft wannabe.  

post #5 of 94

Stupid for Google to enter the dispute.

Sooner than later Samsung will compete with Google.

If it remains dependent to Google then it may be another Sony in the future, 

post #6 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The fight is becoming more dramatic and the possibility of a truce in the form of a cross-licensing deal seems to be becoming likely"

 

These things usually end in some form of compromise deal so I guess this is the most likely outcome in the end.  

post #7 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

Stupid for Google to enter the dispute.

Sooner than later Samsung will compete with Google.

If it remains dependent to Google then it may be another Sony in the future, 

As long as whatever Samsung offers includes Google services (maps, GMail, etc) I don't think it would matter too much. I don't see Samsung entering the search space to compete with Google. Maybe I'm missing something. 

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post #8 of 94

All Google has to do is change its OS by taking out these Apple claims. Slide to unlock is pretty simple to avoid by using two fingers gesture or even by shaking the phone a bit. There's a ton of ways to unlock a phone. Other patents would just have to be taken out our of Android and Google should see if they can license them from Apple. Google already paying $5-$15 per phone to Microsoft for their licenses.

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post #9 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Maybe I'll get to say "Now Google has sued someone". 1wink.gif

And mobsters aren't murderers if they only commission the hit.

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post #10 of 94
Has Apple sued Google directly? Because that seems to be where this all is headed from my outsider POV. Set up some background by fighting the companies that make the phones, then find a way to draw Google in and get them on the software that makes it all possible.

Can't say I support only Apple making these type of smartphones, but Android probably did end AT&T iphone exclusivity faster and push certain new features faster. That said its pretty clear they copied iOS a lot. Kind of a grey area where I mostly back Apple for being more innovative and creative. And cohesive. And aesthetic.
post #11 of 94

 ... and in a related interview later that day the Samsung spokesperson said that the lawsuit strategy against Apple was going 'very smooth ...'

post #12 of 94

The reason Google is helping now is they now own the Motorola IP portfolio which they can license to Samsung if they like which could in turn help them win their case.

post #13 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

As long as whatever Samsung offers includes Google services (maps, GMail, etc) I don't think it would matter too much. I don't see Samsung entering the search space to compete with Google. Maybe I'm missing something. 

 

It is a wish of mine.

Samsung has the will and money to stand shoulder to shoulder with both Apple and Google.

post #14 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


And mobsters aren't murderers if they only commission the hit.

I think you meant when an Angel raises his sword. :)

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post #15 of 94
Wait.... What happened to the billions of dollars worth of Motorola patents?
"Very disappointing to have people judging something without all the facts." - charlituna.
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post #16 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

Stupid for Google to enter the dispute.

Sooner than later Samsung will compete with Google.

If it remains dependent to Google then it may be another Sony in the future, 

 

I believe the old proverb goes something like, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

 

--DotComCTO

post #17 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Wait.... What happened to the billions of dollars worth of Motorola patents?

Still there AFAIK. I don't think they sold them.

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post #18 of 94

The patent system is broken.

 

If every company litigated like Apple, one of two things would happen:

 

  1. Nobody would have any electronic device, or
  2. Patent reform would rapidly take place

 

The fact of the matter is that these types of patents are insane. Ask yourself these questions:

 

  1. What if Ford patented the "tire" as we know it? What if they sued every manufacturer for using that form factor, asthetic, material, etc?
  2. Imagine Nike patented the modern "shoe." To what extent does that cover any shoe? Sandals? Boots? Any type of footwear?

 

Ridiculous propositions, right? So are these. Patenting basic "concepts" is not the same as patenting specific algorithms, such as Apple's internal music-suggesting logic for iTunes, should they choose to patent that (for example).

post #19 of 94

Here's some advice for both Google and Samsung to fend off Apple - STOP COPYING APPLE'S STUFF!

 

It's bad enough that Google's Android is/was a knockoff of iOS, but Samsung took it one step further and copied Apple's Design/hardware/packaging/etc...

Samsung has lost my business.  It's bad enough that my Apple products have Samsung components in them, that's just the way the business is, but if I need to buy any end-product with a Samsung logo on it, I'll just keep right on going to someone else's.

Bunch of thieves they are... oh right, the CEO is a mobster, bribed his way out of jail, and obviously believes he is above the law.  

post #20 of 94

LOL

 

Google is stepping right where Apple wants them to.

 

It is fairly obvious that Apple is after Android itself, but also focusing on the hardware manufacturers own customizations that infringe on Apple IP.

 

Once Apple has enough wins in court versus Android hangers-on, it will be a mountain of precedent for Google to have to fight.  In court, precedent is everything.  Talk about an uphill battle for the thiefs.

 

Now, Google allies itself with Samsung, opening the door for Android itself to be the main target.  This even before Apple has garnered the steam they sought.

 

Still, Google is exposing themselves here.  They sense the trend and they know they need to lay all the cards on the table now to avoid a much larger issue down the road.

 

that said, it seems like Christmas is coming early for Apple.  Google is going to have to answer for why they do what they do.

 

It is really sad that a great company like Apple has to actually sue just to protect their inventions. In China, knockoffs may be an everyday reality that is near impossible to win, but the US?

 

Surely our courts can do the right thing.

post #21 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Here's some advice for both Google and Samsung to fend off Apple - STOP COPYING APPLE'S STUFF!

 

It's bad enough that Google's Android is/was a knockoff of iOS, but Samsung took it one step further and copied Apple's Design/hardware/packaging/etc...

Samsung has lost my business.  It's bad enough that my Apple products have Samsung components in them, that's just the way the business is, but if I need to buy any end-product with a Samsung logo on it, I'll just keep right on going to someone else's.

Bunch of thieves they are... oh right, the CEO is a mobster, bribed his way out of jail, and obviously believes he is above the law.  

 

So you're OK with iOS ripping off the Notification Bar, then?

post #22 of 94

How do you get from this:

 

"Samsung has confirmed that it is working with Google to fend of patent infringement claims made by Apple, according to The Korea Times. The announcement marks the first time that Samsung has confirmed it is receiving assistance from Google in its legal battle with Apple."

 

to this:


"An unnamed official with Samsung quoted by the Times as saying the company hopes it will be able to earn royalties from Apple"?

 

 

How do you get from fending off infringement claims together to earning royalties?

post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

The patent system is broken.

 

If every company litigated like Apple, one of two things would happen:

 

  1. Nobody would have any electronic device, or
  2. Patent reform would rapidly take place

 

The fact of the matter is that these types of patents are insane. Ask yourself these questions:

 

  1. What if Ford patented the "tire" as we know it? What if they sued every manufacturer for using that form factor, asthetic, material, etc?
  2. Imagine Nike patented the modern "shoe." To what extent does that cover any shoe? Sandals? Boots? Any type of footwear?

 

Ridiculous propositions, right? So are these. Patenting basic "concepts" is not the same as patenting specific algorithms, such as Apple's internal music-suggesting logic for iTunes, should they choose to patent that (for example).

 

"If every company litigated like Apple..."

 

You mean if every company defended their intellectual property?

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post #24 of 94

Imagine all of the money that could have been saved all round if Samsung had just apologised for ripping Apple off in the first place and changed their icons/chargers/packaging and look off their phones.

post #25 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

The reason Google is helping now is they now own the Motorola IP portfolio which they can license to Samsung if they like which could in turn help them win their case.

 

They offered to help HTC before, and likely have been helping Samsung all along behind closed doors.

post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

"If every company litigated like Apple..."

 

You mean if every company defended their intellectual property?

 

Read my examples and post that you agree, or that you don't agree. Specifically regarding tires and shoes.

 

You answer that, and I'll respond to you.

post #27 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

 

How do you get from fending off infringement claims together to earning royalties?

 

Imagine all of the patents held by the combined handset manufacturers as well as Google. Now imagine that all of them file IP lawsuits against Apple all at once for every patent they have.

 

Remember, Apple is the one of the offensive here. Google (and most of the rest) are only defending themselves. This is hypothetical to "What happens if everyone else turns on the offensive and goes against Apple?"

post #28 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Maybe I'll get to say "Now Google has sued someone". 1wink.gif

I still doubt it tho. This could be anything from a faulty translation to Google joining Samsung in filing a new suit. It will be intersting to see if the report is at all accurate and what it actually means. IMO Google is going to have to involve itself more strongly than it has so far, and sooner rather than later.

If you did not conveniently ignore the Motorola suits, you already could.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

Read my examples and post that you agree, or that you don't agree. Specifically regarding tires and shoes.

 

You answer that, and I'll respond to you.

 

Here's a hint:  There are many patents that cover tires and shoes. Also, comparison of tires or shoes to Apple's products is irrelevant. Patents covering basic phones have been around for many years, but Apple's phone is a computer that has phone function and all of the patents that require the application of FRAND are licensed by Apple and every other manufacturer.

 

Some tire patents (34,000+ results):  http://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&q=tires&btnG=#hl=en&safe=off&tbm=pts&sclient=psy-ab&q=rubber+tire&oq=rubber+tire&gs_l=serp.3..0l4.2231.3715.0.3958.11.9.0.2.2.0.226.1210.5j3j1.9.0...0.0.ImqTRJO_FcM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=72b5010e7e778aa2&biw=1322&bih=1223

 

Some shoe patents (34,000+ results):  http://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&q=tires&btnG=#hl=en&safe=off&tbm=pts&sclient=psy-ab&q=shoes&oq=shoes&gs_l=serp.3..0l4.46792.47984.1.48437.5.5.0.0.0.0.181.610.3j2.5.0...0.0.taimDco_d3M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=72b5010e7e778aa2&biw=1322&bih=1223

 

You seem to be making the oldest error in the book that equates the "idea" of something being the same as a patent of something. Not at all the case.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 7/2/12 at 2:14pm

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post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


If you did not conveniently ignore the Motorola suits, you already could.

If you weren't guessing as to who decided what you already would have acknowledged that it was Motorola that sued Apple, months before the purchase was approved. Google could not have as they did not own them. Come back with a real one and I'll tell you you're right. In the meantime be honest enough to admit I am.

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post #31 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

Here's a hint:  There are many patents that cover tires and shoes, look them up for yourself. Also, comparison of tires or shoes to Apple's products is irrelevant. Each invention is what it is.

 

Way to dodge my question altogether.

post #32 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

"If every company litigated like Apple..."

 

You mean if every company defended their intellectual property?


Taking ideas and making them better does not automatically make it your property.

post #33 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

Read my examples and post that you agree, or that you don't agree. Specifically regarding tires and shoes.

 

You answer that, and I'll respond to you.

The thing you forgot it that patents are only valid for a specific period of time. You are giving examples that cannot happen. Tires and shoes been around for centuries and therefore they cannot be patented. However, someone could patent a certain composite material that can be used in manufacturing shoes and tires. Or someone could patent a certain feature that makes shoes lighter or a certain tire patters that improve handling.

 

One of the advantages of patents is that your competitors will have to look for better alternatives. This is how innovations is expected to come with patents. However, the problem with patents now is what is called non-practicing entities.

post #34 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidell View Post

 

Way to dodge my question altogether.

 

Look again. Also, you should be as capable as anyone to use Google to perform a search.

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post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


Taking ideas and making them better does not automatically make it your property.

 

No, but taking an existing idea and patenting it makes it your property. Ideas cannot be owned. Patents can. Copyrights can. The undisclosed content of your mind is also your property.

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post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


Taking ideas and making them better does not automatically make it your property.

 

It makes the "better" part your property. Everyone else will need to find another way to get to the "better" part.

post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

  An unnamed official with Samsung quoted by the Times as saying the company hopes it will be able to earn royalties from Apple.

 

 

They already earn huge amounts of money from Apple.  Billions of dollars a year.

 

But if this happened, heads would explode all across this site's user base.

post #38 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

The thing you forgot it that patents are only valid for a specific period of time. You are giving examples that cannot happen. Tires and shoes been around for centuries and therefore they cannot be patented. However, someone could patent a certain composite material that can be used in manufacturing shoes and tires. Or someone could patent a certain feature that makes shoes lighter or a certain tire patters that improve handling.

 

One of the advantages of patents is that your competitors will have to look for better alternatives. This is how innovations is expected to come with patents. However, the problem with patents now is what is called non-practicing entities.

 

Actually, a non-practicing entity that acquires patents to license, or in some cases shut out an infringing competitor, is legal and just a part of doing business. The time-limited monopoly aspect of patents is what makes them unique and highly sought after (depending on the nature of the patent, naturally). I don't agree with the "patent troll" moniker. The important part to remember about IP is that it is property and it can be used any way the owner wishes.

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post #39 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

 Jobs... lent Schmidt credibility by gifting him a seat on Apple's board

 

 

 

It was not a gift.  It was an appointment calculated to increase total profits.  Apple gives no gifts - most especially seats on the BOD.

post #40 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I think you meant when an Angel raises his sword. :)

 

I thought it was "when you hear a bell ring, an angel gets his wings".  :)

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