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HP reportedly ditches Windows RT as Microsoft readies Surface

post #1 of 42
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According to unconfirmed reports, HP has scrapped plans to build Windows RT-based tablets which would have been direct competitors to Microsoft's own upcoming Surface tablet that was announced in June.

Unnamed sources told SemiAccurate (via The Mac Observer) that Microsoft's largest OEM partner HP has decided to dump Windows RT, the ARM processor-powered version of the company's upcoming Windows 8 OS, possibly in favor of Google's Android.

Microsoft reportedly angered hardware makers when it unveiled two self-branded tablets, one running Windows RT for ARM and another Intel-based machine called Surface for Windows 8 Pro, on June 18 after having worked closely with the OEMs in designing devices that would efficiently run the new OS. Semi Accurate alludes to Microsoft cherry-picking the best of each design to make its own tablet in the Surface, however the rumor is unfounded and can't be proven until all new Windows tablets launch later in 2012.

Most recently, Acer founder Stan Shih called the Surface a mere advertising stunt for Windows 8, saying that the Redmond-based company had no real plans to continue development in the tablet hardware arena.

Surface
Source: Microsoft



The software giant has placed itself in a curious position with hardware makers that will essentially become competition when Surface is released later this year. Microsoft will have a definite pricing advantage as it won't have to pay the $90 OS licensing fee applied to OEMs planning to use either Windows RT or Windows 8 Pro.

When Surface was announced, some pundits believed that Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro stood a good chance at taking away some of Apple's dominating iPad tablet share, but it remains unclear if Microsoft can do so without the help of HP.
post #2 of 42

HP may be the trendsetter here. As a manufacturer, I'd dump Microsoft and let them flounder on their own.

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post #3 of 42

I'm not even sure what that thing is supposed to be. All I know is that I don't want one.

 

It's like a laptop, but with an inferior keyboard, a little, shitty trackpad and the display doesn't even stay up on it's own, so you have to prop it up from behind with a kickstand and keep it at a fixed angle, an angle which you can't choose, if I'm not mistaken. I'll take any Apple laptop over that thing any day of the week.

post #4 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

HP may be the trendsetter here. As a manufacturer, I'd dump Microsoft and let them flounder on their own.

i don't think MS's actions with the Surface are bad. Just as MS should be secretly working on HW in case their vendors falter Win OEMs should have been secretly working on an OS in case MS would falter. Both have failed each other miserably for reasons we could easily argue about.

While I think MS not having a clear focus on Win8 or the Surface HW is a problem, the overall concept of each looks great to me. If they can't get customers interested in Win8 tablets (or Win8 smartphones) soon it won't matter how they treat their partners because iOS and Android will begin to eat away at all of MS's OS business.
Edited by SolipsismX - 7/2/12 at 4:14pm

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post #5 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151048/hp-reportedly-ditches-windows-rt-as-microsoft-readies-surface#post_2138816"]I'm not even sure what that thing is supposed to be. All I know is that I don't want one.

It's like a laptop, but with an inferior keyboard, a little, shitty trackpad and the display doesn't even stay up on it's own, so you have to prop it up from behind with a kickstand and keep it at a fixed angle, an angle which you can't choose, if I'm not mistaken. I'll take any Apple laptop over that thing any day of the week.

I think those are prominent problems with the device and a key problem with MS's outlook on technology. Instead of creating something that is ideal for specific tasks they have created something that is shitty for every task. That, historically, doesn't work too well. You don't see lumberjacks using Swiss Army knifes simply because it has a saw... plus a bunch of other tools.

There are many individual aspects of Win8 and the Surface HW I like but there is nothing about either actual product that feels right.
Edited by SolipsismX - 7/2/12 at 4:15pm

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post #6 of 42
If only they had their own tablet OS they could rely on...
post #7 of 42
Not sure why I'd dump them in favor of Android when Google itself has just jumped in with its own little-to-no-margin tablet. If Microsoft's tablet is actually priced for the sake of profit (so as not to strangle profit from potential third party manufactures) that would be the preferred position. Outside any discussion of OS quality and appeal.
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post #8 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


i don't think MS's actions with the Surface are bad. Just as MS should be secretly working on HW in case their vendors falter Win OEMs should have been secretly working on an OS in case MS would falter. Both have failed each other miserably for reasons we could easily argue about.
While I think MS not having a clear focus on Win8 or the Surface HW is a problem, the overall concept of each looks great to me. If they can't get customers interested in Win8 tablets (or Win8 smartphones) soon it won't matter how they treat their partners because iOS and Android will begin to eat away at all of MS's OS business.

 

It is almost shocking to imagine that a company of Microsoft's size has been so blinded by computing trends to realize so late in the game that their long-held money machine is disappearing... and fast. Their panicked response to iPad and OSX with Surface and Windows 8 has just been jaw-dropping. I wonder if they'll even be around in ten years time.

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post #9 of 42

Exactly, for a company like HP - damned if you go with Android, damned if you go with Microsoft ... a fine kettle of fish that they find themselves in. 

 

Best thing you can say about this situation for them is that Apple and Foxconn can't make enough iPads fast enough to satisfy demand, so there will be a market for others. But that's hardly a basis for a thriving market with decent margins.

post #10 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by battiato1981 View Post

Exactly, for a company like HP - damned if you go with Android, damned if you go with Microsoft ... a fine kettle of fish that they find themselves in. 

Their problems are self-inflicted.

The Touchpad wasn't that bad a device (my daughter has one). With a little work, it could have been a contender, but they abandoned it too early. In particular, they simply dumped the price to far lower than they needed to - since they were being resold on ebay by the hundreds or thousands at $200 and up (I sold 3 of them at a big enough profit so my daughter's was free).
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post #11 of 42

MS relies on their OEMs. For some reason they think they can pull an Apple and be successful. Unfortunately, they don't have the attitude, the philosophy, the cachet, the mindshare, or the ecosystem to pull it off. 

 

Apple's been integrating hardware and software since birth. 

post #12 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It is almost shocking to imagine that a company of Microsoft's size has been so blinded by computing trends to realize so late in the game that their long-held money machine is disappearing... and fast. Their panicked response to iPad and OSX with Surface and Windows 8 has just been jaw-dropping. I wonder if they'll even be around in ten years time.

Oh, I'm sure they will be. I'm also sure they'll have the highest desktop* OS marketshare in the world. But in terms of relevance and mindshare they could be pretty non-existant. Think of them like a SW version of Sony. IE was even close to being relevant (it's actually good now!) and yet its decline was still very slow. i expect Windows to fall the same way if MS can't turn things around. However, they do have many years and many opportunities to figure it out, unlike other companies that have few resources to counter an attack. MS is no RiM.


* In terms of OS installations I think iOS and Android each outsell or are on the verge of outselling Windows.

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post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
[" url="/t/151048/hp-reportedly-ditches-windows-rt-as-microsoft-readies-surface#post_2138816"]I'm not even sure what that thing is supposed to be. All I know is that I don't want one.

It's like a laptop, but with an inferior keyboard, a little, shitty trackpad and the display doesn't even stay up on it's own, so you have to prop it up from behind with a kickstand and keep it at a fixed angle, an angle which you can't choose, if I'm not mistaken. I'll take any Apple laptop over that thing any day of the week.
Ah but don't you know Microsoft just made Apple's smart cover dumb? lol.gif
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Not sure why I'd dump them in favor of Android when Google itself has just jumped in with its own little-to-no-margin tablet. If Microsoft's tablet is actually priced for the sake of profit (so as not to strangle profit from potential third party manufactures) that would be the preferred position. Outside any discussion of OS quality and appeal.

 

There's generally one answer and only one answer as to why companies do what they do...money (of course).  An $85-$95 per unit MS license fee could amount to 20% to 40% of the cost to build a MS powered tablet by HP or anyone else.  Using Android, although not free (and even MS will still make money) cuts expenses considerably.

 

It remains to be seen what MS will charge for the vaporware "Surface", but if it's in the ballpark of an "ultrabook" notebook as MS has said, it shouldn't be long before the Surface takes its place alongside the BlackBerry Playbook, Slate and other iPad wannabes on Woot! and Big Lots' shelves.

post #15 of 42

If I had a violin, I might play a sad song for HP.   

 

HP virtually screws everything up they touch, I can't even remember their last successful product.

post #16 of 42

What a circus watching Microsoft and HP execute their business plans (sic).

post #17 of 42
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Originally Posted by quinney View Post

What a circus watching Microsoft and HP execute their business plans (sic).

Which one is Jim Carrey and which one is Jeff Daniels?

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post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

What a circus watching Microsoft and HP execute their business plans (sic).

Which one is Jim Carrey and which one is Jeff Daniels?

I don't know, I just hope they don't make a sex video.

post #19 of 42

This article implies that HP isn't planning on developing any Windows tablets in the future.  However, HP told PC Magazine that they do plan on releasing a Windows 8 tablet with x86 internals -- just not one incorporating Windows RT on ARM.

post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

MS relies on their OEMs. For some reason they think they can pull an Apple and be successful. Unfortunately, they don't have the attitude, the philosophy, the cachet, the mindshare, or the ecosystem to pull it off. 

 

Unfortunately, they also never had Steve Jobs, or had him build them a kick-ass management team.

 

Personally, I believe that Ballmer should be replaced, preferably with Clippy the Paperclip from Office 2003. That guy really knew what he was doing.

 

"It looks like your trying to create a mobile market product. Would you like me to help to:

 

1. Bollocks it up by having it run Windows?

2. Paint the thing Zune-Brown?

3. Just get out of the way and do the monkey dance?"

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Ah but don't you know Microsoft just made Apple's smart cover dumb? lol.gif

 

Only after Apple made Microsoft's smart-tablet dumb.

 

I'd call that more than even.

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post #21 of 42

Semiaccurate is the same site that in Spring 2011 told use Apple's laptops were going to switch to ARM. Semiaccurate might be right about HP, but they might equally just be a bunch of trolls.

post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Ah but don't you know Microsoft just made Apple's smart cover dumb? lol.gif

 

 

It's amazing how people complain that the Apple appeal is "form over function". Yet nowhere do you see any company that works so hard to get every detail of function right. That's a lot of Apple's appeal.

 

Microsoft comes out and shows people a cover. "This is what it looks like. No you can't touch it while it's on." And everybody runs around saying how great it is. On the basis of what? Aside from the shallowest form... absolutely nothing. 

 

What they're banking on is that when people actually use it, the mediocre reviews it gets by people who actually used it won't be able to fully supplant the rave reviews of all the people who didn't.

post #23 of 42

Windows RT isn't particularly appealing to me. I have little interest in running Metro-only apps, especially when an x86/x64 equivalent can also run Metro apps, as well as a full-blown PC.

 

Windows RT is a weird animal, but Windows 8 (especially on tablets) is a very interesting and forward-looking OS--and if you haven't already, realize that Microsoft is pushing to extend ARM to the desktop (with additional applications) and further (and more importantly), prepare for a world where the mobile phone is also the PC and the tablet.

post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If I had a violin, I might play a sad song for HP.   

 

HP virtually screws everything up they touch, I can't even remember their last successful product.

HP 12C.  The best financial calculator ever made.  Still the best.  The only one I have consistently used for over 20 years.

 

Sadly, I think HP is going the way of Kodak.

post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

HP may be the trendsetter here. As a manufacturer, I'd dump Microsoft and let them flounder on their own.

At some point in the near future the idea of following IBM into new markets and ditching PCs and consumer tablets will come to be seen as the right thing to do. I just hope HP haven't left it too late. I'd hate to see them join Kodak on the funeral pyre.
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post #26 of 42

Is it true that Microsoft doesn't know hardware? Not entirely. It has been a dominant maker of mice, webcams and keyboards for decades. It has been making XBoxes for a decade, and its Kinect controller has been sold in millions.  If I am not mistaken, it sold faster than the iPad at launch.

 

The XBox is a complete computer, for all intents and purposes.  MS had to master design, integration, supply chain management and marketing to make it succeed.  Can we argue it is much harder to design, manufacture and market a tablet?  Don't forget, Ballmer's twin brother, Apple's hardware SVP, just retired. Maybe he did it to take over the same job at MS. ;-)

 

It took MS a while to get the XBox right, but they had the cash and patience to do it. They also have the cash and patience to make Surface succeed, if they really want to. 

 

But I am not yet convinced they want to. The whole Ballmer and Sinofsky show and tell smells uncommitted to me.  It could just have been an elaborate demo of a reference model, something akin to Google's Nexus models.  At least the Nexus phones and tablet are finished products. The Surface still appears to be pseudo-vaporware.  But, I believe MIcrosoft can make this succeed if they are committed.

 

As for HP, when are they going to try hiring a CEO who is actually techno-savvy?


Edited by ankleskater - 7/2/12 at 7:12pm
post #27 of 42
Just bought an HP Envy (some machine code) printer, hardware is great (apart from the ink scam); the software is awful.

HP WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH PALM?

They're probably still sat there with their fingers in their... ears.

Given their software is complete and utter ballshitfuckbuggery, you'd think...

Ah, nevermind.
post #28 of 42

Wow HP might have few years left. If printers, scanners and pc towers with some laptops can save them for maybe 5 more years that would  be amazing. HP really dumped their only hope with WebOS. If they kept WebOS and kept developing their own computers, smartphones, tablets they might have some shot. Unfortunately, the old farts at the top of the management think that people gonna keep buying PC towers, Printers and Scanners forever. Now that they completely placed WebOS in trash they have no hope, just like RIM and Nokia.

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post #29 of 42

I must confess: AppleInsider is doing a better job of clarifying what is rumor from what is fact, and its right in the headline, which is a good thing because RSS feeds tend to show just headlines, and you don't want them to be misleading or untruthful. This I can appreciate. Thanks, and keep up the professionalism.

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post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Ah but don't you know Microsoft just made Apple's smart cover dumb? lol.gif

 

Stop kidding yourself. If you wanted an ultrabook, the MacBook Air runs Windows too. And it doesn't need a goddamned kickstand to stay open.

 

Oooo... a cover that doubles as a keyboard, where have I seen that?

 

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post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

 In terms of OS installations I think iOS and Android each outsell or are on the verge of outselling Windows.

 

It could happen. Enterprise has adopted Windows 7 fairly well and MS hasn't given enterprise any strong reason to spend a ton of money to upgrade to Windows 8. Furthermore, Windows it butt-ugly and different enough to use to make it a retraining cost to change to it.

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post #32 of 42
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Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

It could happen. Enterprise has adopted Windows 7 fairly well and MS hasn't given enterprise any strong reason to spend a ton of money to upgrade to Windows 8. Furthermore, Windows it butt-ugly and different enough to use to make it a retraining cost to change to it.

Just read an Asymco article on that very thing. Looks like Android has topped Windows and iOS will surely do it soon enough. Regardless smartphones are far beyond PCs and I can't see that changing back...ever.

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post #33 of 42
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Ah but don't you know Microsoft just made Apple's smart cover dumb? lol.gif
 

 

 

Smart Covers don't sell iPads. Apple's perfection of the tablet paradigm sells iPads. 

 

On the other hand, MS seems to be hoping an integrated keyboard-cover will help sell a product that is neither a competitive tablet nor a competitive ultrabook. 

 

So essentially, MS is selling an awesome keyboard-typey cover, with a slab attachment that looks like a tablet. You can even close the awesome keyboard-typey cover by folding that slab attachment over it in order to protect the keys. Great, isn't it? 

 

That's quite an expensive keyboard. 

post #34 of 42
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

According to unconfirmed reports, HP has scrapped plans to build Windows RT-based tablets which would have been direct competitors to Microsoft's own upcoming Surface tablet that was announced in June...
 
...The software giant has placed itself in a curious position with hardware makers that will essentially become competition when Surface is released later this year. Microsoft will have a definite pricing advantage as it won't have to pay the $90 OS licensing fee applied to OEMs planning to use either Windows RT or Windows 8 Pro.

 

     So maybe Léo Apotheker was right after all?

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post #35 of 42
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

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4x Expandable floppy bays?

 

What lunatic would need access to that much data at once?

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post #36 of 42

I personally think it is easier for a software/OS company (like MS or Google) to dabble in the hardware market than a hardware company (like HP, Dell, Acer, etc) to dabble in the software/OS market.  And THAT is where the hurt feelings from the hardware makers come in.  Google or MS can easily pair up with any number of hardware manufactures in the Asian supply chain like FoxConn and produce a generic iTablet.  What matters is the OS, and as HP catastrophically proved with WebOS, building an entire ecosystem outside of Android or iOS is hard.  All the rumors of Samsung investing in Bada are probably true as they are needing to hedge their bets.  What is Dell, Asus, and the countless other commoditized hardware makers to do?  It's not as if there is room for 10 OS's.

post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyTomato View Post

 All the rumors of Samsung investing in Bada are probably true as they are needing to hedge their bets.  What is Dell, Asus, and the countless other commoditized hardware makers to do?  It's not as if there is room for 10 OS's.

Canonical has Ubuntu. There is Red Hat too. Both are big enough to get the job done. If Dell and HP would take the plunge with all of their computers instead of just netbooks, they could attract developers. Adobe's Creative Suite isn't free on any system. With enough people liking Linux after a couple of years you can bet they would create a version for it. If they did that, Apple would suffer more than Microsoft. I would like to subscribe to the Adobe cloud service for $600 per year but it won't run on Linux.

 

All of these manufacturers need to offer Ubuntu for free and charge the full price for Windows. Then people would see the cost of Windows and realize it just isn't worth it.

post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Is it true that Microsoft doesn't know hardware? Not entirely. It has been a dominant maker of mice, webcams and keyboards for decades. It has been making XBoxes for a decade, and its Kinect controller has been sold in millions.  If I am not mistaken, it sold faster than the iPad at launch.

I wish people would stop making that comparison. It's like saying a new set of cutlery is better than an iPad because it sold more at launch.
Quote:
The XBox is a complete computer, for all intents and purposes.  MS had to master design, integration, supply chain management and marketing to make it succeed.

Mainly marketing. They also had to replace huge numbers of faulty units and lose billions of dollars on it. Being able to sell something in large numbers doesn't automatically mean that it's a quality product, whether it's Microsoft, HP or Apple.

And Microsoft haven't made a decent mouse since about 1992.
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post #39 of 42

When you cross the Rubicon and diss your hardware patterns you better know what you are doing.

 

Hard to go back.

 

P&G decided to directly ship Crush Soda directly to supermarkets and cut their distributers out of the deal.  After market share dropped they had to go back, hat in hand, and beg them to distribute their product again.  The product was dead shortly after.

post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

It could happen. Enterprise has adopted Windows 7 fairly well and MS hasn't given enterprise any strong reason to spend a ton of money to upgrade to Windows 8. Furthermore, Windows it butt-ugly and different enough to use to make it a retraining cost to change to it.

That is not uncommon in the Windows arena.

It was hard to get people off XP. For years, people continued to use XP.

Vista didn't sell well.

Windows 7 sold very well.

I suspect that Windows 8 will not sell particularly well (except where preloaded on new machines), but in the end, it doesn't matter all that much. Microsoft gets their money whether the user installs Windows 7 or Windows 8.
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