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Bill Gates: There is 'a strong possibility' Apple needs a Surface-like device - Page 4

post #121 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

Nobody knows yet. It's impossible to judge fairly until real people have the opportunity to use these new products and review them. But Microsoft Office is still very much a big deal for a lot of people.

I don't need to wait.  The product isn't the problem...the business strategy is the problem (see my post 114).  They have an enterprise device that at best will be sold through consumer channels (if at all).  There is no way in hell Microsoft can compete with iPad from a manufacturing, marketing, and distribution standpoint.  It will be about as successful as a 12 year old selling warm beer at a lemonade stand. 

 

Sorry, but the business strategy is screwed up.  I don't need to use the device to know that.

post #122 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I welcome Microsoft to the tablet world, just as I welcomed them to the smartphone world.
Though what they think anyone would want with a desktop OS on a multitouch device is anyone's guess. They don't seem to have learned from the last decade.

I for one have been waiting 2 years before i can do anything significant on my iPad besides reading iMags/iNewsapers, looking at iPics, viewing iMovies.

An actual hands on user experience would be a relief <sigh>- besides playing iGames.


Edited by iSheldon - 7/3/12 at 7:47pm
post #123 of 298

Looks like its about time for Microsoft to stage a funeral for the iPad, like they did for the iPhone...the hubris is on full display just like always...

 

The whole "new" form factor is utter nonsense, its a tablet that runs windows (like the ones they've had since XP but never sold much)...except this is the PR machine for Microsoft...this has to be "new" (even if its not) and "great" so they have a chance of selling it.

 

Question for Bill - will my WinPad run Norton Antivirus?  And what's the effect on battery life of that?

post #124 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS

 

It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.

 

Take a look at photos of headquarter offices of top start-ups - Facebook, Twitter, FourSquare, Square, LinkedIn, Pandora, etc...   They all use MacBooks and OSX.  So, smarty, Apple has a solution for the creators as well 

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #125 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla View Post

 

Question for Bill - will my WinPad run Norton Antivirus?  And what's the effect on battery life of that?

 

As long as you can compute an Excel spreadsheet/edit a Word document - who the hell cares?

post #126 of 298

right, because microsoft is so on the cutting-edge of innovation that apple would need to feel that it needs to compete.

 

it is a well known fact that apple looks to itself as it's own competitor and attempts to outdo itself, not it's competitors—except when their technology is stolen (cough-android-cough).

post #127 of 298

Now all the words from Gates here aside, I think the WinPad stands a chance if Microsoft executes adequately (although with nothing but crashing prototypes that nobody got to play with in hand and two different versions of the WinPad at the starting gate its not looking good from a consumer confusion standpoint).  Seems like they could take share from the little part of the market that Android owns as they are in such a sad state on tablets.  There will be a group of dedicated windows users that will buy it as well (its a big market) and possibly have a WP phone to go with it.  

 

It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is.  Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.

 

Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...

post #128 of 298

Yes, Apple has the best selling tablet by far! I think that they need to change their strategy. What on earth is Bill smoking?

Go back to your humanitarian efforts, you are really doing great work there - seriously you are.

post #129 of 298
It's not so much that it will change the way people think, it's that it will get people thinking the same things they were thinking before the iPad. This is exactly what the vision was for a tablet before the iPad came around.

We will see if it does any better this time around.
post #130 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Billy is a nice chap, but somehow I can't get rid of the feeling, that he just missed the train.

 

Billy just got off the short bus to miss the train... He's been away from the market a long time if he thinks the Surface has any appeal. Windows 8 may be a failure as well. Enterprise is happy with Windows 7 and there's nothing about Windows 8 compelling enough to upgrade to a screen full of LEGO blocks.

post #131 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla View Post

It seems at this point Microsoft can finally see they and their share price will fade away over time if they don't get into the phone and tablet markets which is where the growth (future) is.  Like the game console market, they can spend years and years pouring money down a hole if they think they need to until they finally get it working enough (they made no money on Xbox and didn't start making money on the Xbox 360 for years but do now) - and they have no choice but to do this and pour money down this hole and the WP hole - for years - until they get it right enough (not for domination but for some marketshare) - the alternative is to watch the growth of their main revenue driver, PC's, tail off and eventually start shrinking.

 

Apple has nothing to worry about here and I hope Microsoft can execute this...Google (android tablets) are the ones to be sweating this...

 

MS did pour a ton of money down a hole to get their game machine to run correctly and finally be well accepted, only to find the console game market morphing into a portable game market. 

 

In an alternate reality where MS would have released the Surface product a couple years before Apple announced the iPad, the Surface might have gained some traction. Today, the Surface is "meh" in an "oh wow" world that prefers simplicity of design and function... not the whole damn thing and the kitchen sink too in your face and in your way.

post #132 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

 

As long as you can compute an Excel spreadsheet/edit a Word document - who the hell cares?

Well, YOU would care if the power hog shut down before you could edit and save. 

post #133 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

Needs?  Needs.

 

Needs to have a Surface-like device in order to do.... what, exactly? Apple doesn't seem to be at a point of need.

 

More like, Microsoft needs Apple to compete with the Surface, namely, compete against Microsoft, using Microsoft's rules.

 

First rule:  Nobody is allowed to make the iPad.  [it's fair, Microsoft can't make the iPad either].

post #134 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No, he's the richest man in the world for figuring out you can create a business model around whoring out a totally shit operating system to everyone and their dog.  

I have to disagree. I think it was mostly dumb luck.
post #135 of 298

It's wonderful!  Marvelous!  Just don't try to touch its one distinguishing feature, the keyboard.

 

Want to see every MS new product rollout?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnX4quv5W4

 

FF to 2:00, ends at 2:39.

post #136 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Here we go again.

 

I think Bill Gates' comments were entirely expected, and his advocacy of Surface isn't somehow an unbiased opinion (remember, Gates won't allow members of his family to buy Apple products like an iPod, no matter how much better the iPod is over a Zune).

 

And I would expect competitors to frame the debate according to their perceived strengths. Microsoft says you can run full Windows on a tablet that looks suspiciously like a laptop that needs a kickstand. Motorola claimed you Xoom would deliver Adobe Flash. RIM proclaimed amateur hour over. HP flew the TouchPad straight into the ground.

 

I have no doubt some people will not be happy with a tablet unless it requires antivirus scanners, fixing registry errors, and weekly reboots to satiate Windows Update, and weird DLL conflicts, and stupid, inane user experience like this actual message that I got trying to uninstall a service pack: "The removal of Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Service Pack 1 may put this computer in an state in which projects cannot be loaded and Service Pack 1 cannot be reinstalled." Seriously, WTF? And if you install things in the wrong order, it can create strange problems. Uninstalling things in the wrong order can actually cause later uninstalls to fail (oh yes, I've seen it on my work PC). I'm not making this shit up; this is normal for Windows. I mean, no wonder there's keyboard in the cover: how else are you going to get this "tablet" to boot into safe mode when you can't press F8?

 

If this is the experience you want from a tablet, Microsoft has you covered.

You have t give MS an 'E' for effort. To think that you can actually cherry pick selected service packs to delete and fall back to is rather ambitious indeed. With Apple you better have a complete data backup because their only version of fixing problems for iOS is a full restore. Not saying that isn't a reasonable strategy it is just that MS tries to repair things that are unrepairable thus they get a bad reputation for needing a reformat HD to solve things where as Apple uses reformat as their first option so it doesn't seem like a last resort.  

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #137 of 298

bottom line for BG:

 

when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

post #138 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

Hilarious. All you have to do is buy the "Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover" for your iPad, and you have the Microsoft Surface.


And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?

 

I think not.

 

Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.

post #139 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasparilla View Post

Looks like its about time for Microsoft to stage a funeral for the iPad, like they did for the iPhone...the hubris is on full display just like always...

 

Thanks! i had forgot how utterly that MS stunt failed!!

 

just so you can all relieve the moment:

 

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/51494-microsoft-employees-dance-at-mock-iphone-funeral

 

and it was for the launch of Windows Phone 7!!! oh yeah, how that took off!!!! just like this did too:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6a6Hkp94o

 

like they said then "it's only an incident in the perfection of the [Vanguard Satellite] system." oh, that guy could have so worked for MS. it came to be known as "FlopNik." Windows Phone 7, i mean (haha).

post #140 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by macuser916 View Post

It may well be fit for purpose but for it to be fully useable you're going to have to cart around a keyboard, mouse, stylus and extra batteries or at least cables to plug it in. Don't get me wrong, I hope its dynamic and brilliant because it will help encourage innovation and keep Apple on its toes but from a home user perspective, Apple will continue to dominate with its holistic approach. It's a new toy for windows lovers to get into and be able to play with file explorer and keep the hackers and virus writers busy and the virus companies rich. I wish it the best of luck.

 

Not really. It will come with keyboard and touchpad built in smart cover. And judging from battery life in some of recent Ivy Bridge Ultrabooks (which is mostly same hardware), you will not need extra batteries for typical work or school day.

 

It is funny how many individuals are ready to laugh at something new, or different. Such people were laughing at that guy who created Palm PDA ad was carrying around (allegedly) a wooden dummy in his pocket in order to realize usage scenarios... some of the same people were laughing at SJ when he came out with first iPhone, and first iPad. At the end of the day, they looked stupid. And now, some people are laughing at something that is, again, a bit different and unknown.

 

Some people never learn.

post #141 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?

 

I think not.

you could - IF those complex softwares were re-designed from the ground up and stripped down for a limited area tablet touchscreen UI. like iMovie was, for example.

 

but of course they have not been. nor have they (except presumably MS Office) been re-designed from the ground up for the Surface Tablet touchscreen UI either. so instead all you have is the same old desktop software with a much smaller screen to work with. a 13" laptop screen has 3X as much screen area as a 7" tablet, and 70% more than a 10" tablet. seriously, you think the Surface is going to be as convenient to use for these kind of monster desktop programs?

 

in a word, no, it's not. it's going to be so cramped it's dysfunctional. if you are a pro, you will still take your laptop to run those. 

 

there is a whole new generation of powerful pro software being created now for tablets. not Intel powered tablets either. maybe some for Android tabs, but mostly for iOS iPads. they are very different in basic concept from the omnibus desktop applications of yore. and they are the future. MS has totally missed the next wave, because it is desperate to hang on to the last one.

post #142 of 298

The keyboard cover idea/concept is kind of weird.

Unlike Apple iPad smart cover, i believe this Surface is going to leave a lot of oily stains on the screen (which technically beats the purpose)

post #143 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS

It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.


Show us what you make. (Other than 3 year old arguments that have been proven wrong again and again). We can show you 1000s of examples of people creating real content on their iPads and you will dismiss them all. So, save us some time. Show us your stuff.

That's what I thought.
post #144 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


And... you can run heavy-duty apps like Final Cut Pro, Office for Mac or Aperture on iPad "upgraded" with keyboard?

I think not.

Question that remains to be answered is, how many people need fully featured computer in a tablet form. Microsoft's own RT vs. Pro tablets sales will be good indicator. If Pro turns to be selling well, then yes - Apple could benefit from having MacBook Pro hardware in tablet format. Airs are nice and portable, but still laptops - not that easy to use while standing, for example, or in both landscape and portrait orientation. Or where freehand input (via touch-screen) is preferable to keyboard and touchpad.

When you include the keyboard cover on the pro surface you have the same dimensions as an air. It is just slower and a lot more awkward. What benefit is the touchscreen providing if your use case involves non-touch apps.
post #145 of 298

In the thread "Microsoft faces 'major dilemma' pricing Surface tablets against iPad" I made the same point Gates is, and suggested this same approach might be their only conceivable winning strategy.  

Gazobee mentioned it was "nonsense", and that I wasn't "even paying attention"...

 

Hey, Gazoobee!  I guess you forgot to tell Bill!

 

There ARE significant differences in iOS vs OSX, their respective abilities and interface.  And so, there may also be between iPad and Surface.

I'm not saying its a shortcoming of iPad, just that pretending it is, may be MicroSoft's only wedge to drive.

post #146 of 298

The Bill Gates I admire and the one whom it is said will be remembered, is the one from here - http://www.gatesfoundation.org, not here - http://www.microsoft.com/

 

John Gruber puts the surface into perspective - http://daringfireball.net/2012/06/surface_between_rock_and_hardware_place

 

All the best.

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post #147 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

I agree. What you said made me feel rather nostalgic like seeing all those over sized laptops from back in the days. Go to the flee market and you'll see those relics somewhere. 

Yeah man, eventually the tablets will replace the laptops and desk tops. Clouds will be storing all our stuff, so good buy to optical drives baby!

In ten years when we go to the flee market we'll see our old macbook pro and airs looking like old Greek columns from the Roman days. Yep that's the way it is.

 

Oh I'm reminded every day.  I have a big behemoth under my desk at work.  It is a Dell XPS gaming tower that was given to me in case I wanted to play company products along with our developers.  It is a beast and reminds me of the Packard Bell, Compaq, Acer, and HP towers of the early to late 90s. I had Macs in the 80s (84 on that is).  

 

And 10 years from now we'll all be wearing Google or Apple glasses while our cars drive us to work.  For the lucky ones, they'll be able to work from their VR office from home.  

 

Don't know if you saw John Carmack trying to light a fire under VR again (another 90s memory).  I believe he'll succeed and we'll have a new era of VR that will take gaming and video conferencing to a new level.  

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/06/john-carmack-is-making-a-virtual-reality-headset-500-kits-available-soon-video-interview-inside/

post #148 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

Microsoft is giving consumers CHOICE. I know that ugly word is mostly foreign to Apple fans.

 

KIN ONE and KIN TWO were also giving consumers CHOICE. People are free to buy Microsoft Turd version 8. What did you say your favorite word was--"ugly"? Yeah, I bet you know all about "ugly." It comes in blue with a lot of white letters and numbers.

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post #149 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

 

I think this is as hilarious as the next guy... but really... the logitech "cover" you speak of is anything but "ultrathin". At 8mm it will basically double the thickness of your iPad. Logitech calling it a "cover" is hilarious. It's nothing at all like the 3mm touch cover for the Surface. I've been a Mac user for 20 years and have never and will never own a PC... but credit where credit is due... you have to admit that the 3mm touch cover for the Surface is pretty cool. Hopefully it will inspire Logitech to up their game.

Will the 3mm cover keyboard works as advertised.

 

Remember they didn't allowed anyone to use it or touch it, 

 

If I am not mistaken it will be a copycat of the logitech keyboard.

post #150 of 298

I finally understand why he would get Steve Ballmer as CEO of Microsoft. COZ they are the same type of people, always like to lie..Are we gonna see other ipad funeral?
 

post #151 of 298
It's almost sad (in an unintentionally funny way) to see what Microsoft has become. They've become the laughing stock has-been of the tech world and all I see from Gates here is outright denial of the state that Microsoft is in. I really thought that Microsoft would come out with something at least a little more compelling and well thought-out but, alas, that was not meant to be. Gates is totally out of touch and has been for a long time. He can't fix anything now even if he was to return as the CEO.

Microsoft is in a very desperate situation making desperate moves that they did not want to make. They've been forced into this very weak and uncomfortable position of doing things that they're just not good at. It's literally do or die with Windows 8 for Microsoft and this is like a navy deciding to land on a beach and take on a virtually invincible army deep inland. Things could get really ugly in Redmond in 2013. Microsoft is acting from positions of weakness, not strength. Gates being laughably defiant says it all. He can't accept that Jobs ultimately had his revenge and won.

Bill, do you remember what you said when Jobs came back to Apple? "He knows he can't win." Well, he won and he left knowing that he won. And now Apple (and Google) will tear your company apart methodically piece by piece in what will seem like an excruciating manner to you and you will be powerless to do anything about it. Just enjoy your billions (and memories of your early-90's heydays) but your creation Microsoft is now on its way to an agonizing slide into irrelevance and, ultimately, death.
post #152 of 298

He's clearly referring to the fact that the upcoming Microsoft Surface tablet has a full operating system that is capable of downloading any third party program. You're all being ignorant and bashing the man. Apple will in fact have to put a real operating system in the iPad to compete with the Surface, that's if Windows 8 runs smoothly on it.

post #153 of 298
Quote:
You don't have to make a compromise

 

To me, putting a mouse and a keyboard on a touch device is actually a compromise. That means that Microsoft can't do a decent touch-only OS. Developers: why bother making a good touching UI? The device has mouse and keyboard, so not a problem... We know how lazy developers do they work... :P

  — Marco Meneghello

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  — Marco Meneghello

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post #154 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewan View Post

He's clearly referring to the fact that the upcoming Microsoft Surface tablet has a full operating system that is capable of downloading any third party program. You're all being ignorant and bashing the man. Apple will in fact have to put a real operating system in the iPad to compete with the Surface, that's if Windows 8 runs smoothly on it.

1) The Surface running Windows RT will only run apps that go through MS's app store.

2) You're being ignorant by not even understanding the basics of the Surface or Windows 8 constraints.

3) You're clearly trolling by saying iOS is not a real OS. MS had decades with their "real" OS on tablets and it got them nowhere. There first attempt post iPad will be with a concept that follows Apple's very successful iPad and iOS lead.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #155 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS

It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.

Very arrogant of you to assume that the only "real" work is that done on the web.
post #156 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

I care less about microsoft - and yes 90% of the people spend their time on web browsers... because 90% of the people make nothing - it is the rest that still to this day make the sites they look at, layout the e-magazines they read - design and build the apps they use. non of it is made on an iPAD or Mickey Mouse iOS

 

It is nice that that 90% that went no further past crayons are happy with IOS - but for the rest of us who actually do not waste that much time on doing nothing - it would be nice to also get a tablet device from Apple.

 

Your logic is flawed. The web is an essential tool for anyone who creates things.

iOS is tailored to its use and isn't crippled in any way, its exactly the opposite.

The iPad is exceptionally suited for production (controlling robots and other machinery), shop automation (portable cash registers), education, writing, flying airplanes, navigating, painting and so on, because of its form factor its touch control and its aluminium and Gorilla glass finish.

So, actually, its the essential device for anyone who likes to 'do things'.

 

J.

post #157 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

I for one have been waiting 2 years before i can do anything significant on my iPad besides reading iMags/iNewsapers, looking at iPics, viewing iMovies.

An actual hands on user experience would be a relief <sigh>- besides playing iGames.

You should probably rethink the idea of getting a new tablet, sounds like you need a notebook, if you want to get some content creation done you shouldn't be using a tablet, its like getting a spoon to cut a steak :S the touch interface doesn't have the fine control for formatting documents & its going to take a while longer for any company to figure that issue out, so apple came out & said (basically) that the touch interface is great at a certain set of tasks & that's what they will focus on.
Time will tell.

post #158 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

The Bill Gates I admire and the one whom it is said will be remembered, is the one from here - http://www.gatesfoundation.org, not here - http://www.microsoft.com/

 

 

I still know how mister Nobel earned his money.

 

J.

post #159 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

I bought an iPad as a gift for a friend yesterday. He wanted to get one of those keyboard/cover deals, but me and another friend told him, somewhat from experience, that he would quit using it in about a week.
I think that's how it will be for most people. It eventually just becomes an annoyance, except in this case (no pun intended) you're stuck with it.

So true, I have a bluetooth keyboard which I seldom use because once they are synced the virtual keyboard doesn't work.

 

An iPad is mobile which I use all over the house and when I need to send an email I can't use the virtual keyboard imagine how annoying it is which I believe the Surface buyers will be facing.

 

And Apple did the right thing use the virtual keyboard for light use and when one needs to write a novel get a bluetooth keyboard and how many of us are novel writers.

post #160 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by BanExtremists View Post


Real men already have built in equipment for having 'fun'.  Usually involves a partner.  They don't need to pay big money to a fruit named company to do so.

Real men reminds me of Rock Hudson and they play with boys.

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