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Amazon to launch at least three new Kindle Fire models this fall, report says

post #1 of 36
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A new report claims that Amazon will begin production of follow-up models to its Kindle Fire in late summer ahead of a possible fall rollout that is expected to bring new screen resolutions and 4G wireless compatibility to the 7-inch tablet.

NPD Display Search senior analyst Richard Shim (via CNET) said that the internet retail giant will bring at least three models of what is being called the "Kindle Fire 2" to market and could potentially have a 8.9-inch version in the works for the fourth quarter of 2012.

Citing "supply chain" sources from a number of different parts manufacturers Shim expects three distinct 7-inch models to show up in time for the holiday season:
  • 1,024-by-600 display, no camera; August production.
  • 1,280-by-800 display with camera; August production.
  • 1,280-by-800 display with camera and 4G connectivity; September production.

Following the production of the smaller models may be an 8.9-inch version with a 1,920-by-1,200 pixel display that would sit somewhere between the recently-released Google Nexus 7 and larger 9.7-inch Android tablets.

The next-generation Fires are expected to use either Texas Instruments OMAP chips or Nvidia's quad-core Tegra 3 processors. The screens will reportedly boast a pixel density of 216 pixels per inch, identical to the Nexus 7 but short of the third-generation iPad's 264 PPI Retina display. Amazon's first Kindle, for comparison, touted a density of around 170 PPI.

Kindle Fire
Amazon may expand its Kindle Fire product line this fall.
Source: Amazon


Pricing is as yet unknown, however it is likely that Amazon will put the devices in low-end of the market as it did with the original Fire in order to drive content sales through its online store.

The new rumors are consistent with rumblings in June as far as screen resolution is concerned, however that report diverges with Shim's analysis of a possible 8.9-inch model.

Amazon is also rumored to have a smartphone in the works to compete with the iPhone. It is unclear what mobile operating system the company will use if and when it decides to enter the market, but the unit is expected to be sold at a loss like most of Amazon's self-branded offerings.
post #2 of 36

Looks like they're adding more kindling to the fire that's going out, in an attempt to bring back those flames...


Edited by GTR - 7/6/12 at 7:02pm
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post #3 of 36

I know. THREE models.  We can lose money even faster!

post #4 of 36

I wonder how many of the first generation Fires are being used regularly after only 6 months from anecdotal evidence, not as many as Amazon would have hoped.

 

So who will buy them this time around? A lot of people bought these as gifts and the recipients concluded they either didn't need or want a tablet, it didn't have the right OS or ecosystem on it, or it just wasn't an iPad!

 

For prospective customers they may still not want a tablet, they are still on the 'wrong' OS and it still isn't an iPad. Even worse there may well be an iPad more within their price range and the Nexus will have got there before Amazon.

 

This could be a very costly move for Amazon who would on pretty thin margins anyway. Pleased I don't hold any of that over-priced stock!lol.gif

post #5 of 36
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Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

I know. THREE models.  We can lose money even faster!

 

Just update the eInk Kindle with a backlight and keyboard.

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post #6 of 36
  1. Good. Luck. With. That.
post #7 of 36

How about fixing what's already there, instead of adding to the current letdown?

post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

How about fixing what's already there, instead of adding to the current letdown?

Don't be silly. That's not the Android way. Instead of fixing what's broken and actually trying to make good devices that have a reasonable life, Android companies just release a new version. That's much easier than trying to make something good that lasts. As far as the OS goes, hardly anybody who uses Android is currently on ICS, and they're already releasing Jelly Bean, the whole thing is quite tragic and also very hilarious. By the time that 10% of Android users are on Jelly Bean, Google will probably already have released the next version, whatever that's going to be called, probably Key Lime Pie, or some other similar lame name. At this rate, they're going to reach "Z" mighty quickly, and a whole bunch of unfortunate bums will still be stuck on "A".

 

As for the hardware devices, they're practically already obsolete by the time that somebody gets home and opens the box.

post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

How about fixing what's already there, instead of adding to the current letdown?


The first Kindle eReader looked like a miss but they really shored up their weak points with the 2nd model and each additional eReader. If they follow the same path for the Kindle Fire they could be onto something.

Plus, if Asus/Google can come out with a much faster and better $200 tablet less than a year after the Fire launched I have confidence that Amazon is getting ready to step up their game as well. I doubt they have been resting on their laurels for the past year.

That said, Amazon is still not a company I would invest in but, for arguments sake, they were to start to making HW with a decent margin that turn their overall business around there stock might be very valuable in the long run for their current investors. I know I certainly buy something from them pretty much every week.

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post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That said, Amazon is still not a company I would invest in but, for arguments sake, they were to start to making HW with a decent margin that turn their overall business around there stock might be very valuable in the long run for their current investors. I know I certainly buy something from them pretty much every week.

 

I don't have anything in particular against Amazon, and I do order from them sometimes, if they have the product that I'm looking for and the price is right, but I find it outrageous that Amazon has a P/E of 186 while Apple has a measly 14.8.

post #11 of 36
The kindle app works great on an iPad. Why would you buy this junk once the mini-iPad is released?
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Apple 
I don't have anything in particular against Amazon, and I do order from them sometimes, if they have the product that I'm looking for and the price is right, but I find it outrageous that Amazon has a P/E of 186 while Apple has a measly 14.8.

A P/E ratio of 186 is not usually a good thing. It means that the company either has a very high expected future growth in earnings (less likely), or it is the subject of a speculative bubble (very bad).

A P/E ratio of 14.8 is quite healthy, it generally means that the company's stock is considered a fair value and accurate (and not likely to nose dive as what happened to many companies in the year 2000 dot-com bubble).

Remember it's a ratio, "Market Price per Share" divided by "Annual Earnings per Share"

This ratio can also be looked at as the number of years it would take for the earnings to equal the purchase price. Though I don't know exactly why 186 years of earnings to break even sounds ok, I suppose it's just a lot of hope for major growth!
post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk View Post


A P/E ratio of 186 is not usually a good thing. It means that the company either has a very high expected future growth in earnings (less likely), or it is the subject of a speculative bubble (very bad).
A P/E ratio of 14.8 is quite healthy, it generally means that the company's stock is considered a fair value and accurate (and not likely to nose dive as what happened to many companies in the year 2000 dot-com bubble).
Remember it's a ratio, "Market Price per Share" divided by "Annual Earnings per Share"
This ratio can also be looked at as the number of years it would take for the earnings to equal the purchase price. Though I don't know exactly why 186 years of earnings to break even sounds ok, I suppose it's just a lot of hope for major growth!

 

I'm a newcomer to stocks, so that's all interesting info for me, and I still have lots to learn. I just got involved in the past year or so.

 

186 years to break even? I'm glad that I don't own any Amazon stock.

 

Apple sounds like a far, far safer bet. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I had any money invested in Amazon. 

post #14 of 36

OMFG!!!!!

LMAO bro!!!

post #15 of 36

OH NO YOU DIDN'T with those periods.

Y'all crazy!

post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk View Post


A P/E ratio of 186 is not usually a good thing. It means that the company either has a very high expected future growth in earnings (less likely), or it is the subject of a speculative bubble (very bad).
A P/E ratio of 14.8 is quite healthy, it generally means that the company's stock is considered a fair value and accurate (and not likely to nose dive as what happened to many companies in the year 2000 dot-com bubble).
Remember it's a ratio, "Market Price per Share" divided by "Annual Earnings per Share"
This ratio can also be looked at as the number of years it would take for the earnings to equal the purchase price. Though I don't know exactly why 186 years of earnings to break even sounds ok, I suppose it's just a lot of hope for major growth!

 

P/E ratio is a very bad measure of how a company is doing, since earnings are affected by capital expenditures. For example, if Apple was to one quarter decide to aggressively expand their stores, they would end up spending a lot of money, which would cause their earnings per share to decline, which in turn would cause their P/E ratio to skyrocket. It would be the same Apple as it was the quarter before (albeit with more stores), yet their P/E ratio would be much much higher. So basically, P/E ratios are incomplete information - it could mean that the company has a lot of people speculating on future growth, or it could mean that they are aggressively spending money to expand.

 

By the same measure, a low P/E ratio is not necessarily a good thing either. RIM's P/E ratio was somewhere around 4 before they declared a loss this quarter (which is not always a bad thing, although in the case of RIM it certainly is). I think that Apple's low P/E ratio, while healthier, shows that investors don't expect the earnings per share to increase very much (which would lower the P/E ratio), which is typically the case of companies with higher P/E ratios.

 

So basically, P/E ratios are a meaningless way to tell how healthy a company is. If you really want to know, read these companies SEC filings - it will give you a much more complete picture of the state of the company (and in my humble opinion, they are much more interesting than you might expect).

post #17 of 36

Why do we assume we know better than Jeff Bezos, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the internet era?  Micro-analyze P/E, profit margins all you want, he is one of the few leaders who has reinvented his company repeatedly. Why do we assume he doesn't know what he is doing? And why are we dissing his company based on rumors?

post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk View Post



Remember it's a ratio, "Market Price per Share" divided by "Annual Earnings per Share"
This ratio can also be looked at as the number of years it would take for the earnings to equal the purchase price. Though I don't know exactly why 186 years of earnings to break even sounds ok, I suppose it's just a lot of hope for major growth!

 

That's what some *experts* say, but they always fail to show a few examples where this has been borne out.

post #19 of 36
3 more and it won't change a thing

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post #20 of 36
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

3 more and it won't change a thing


and selling it outside of the states this time would help those sales numbers too . . .

post #21 of 36
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Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Why do we assume we know better than Jeff Bezos, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the internet era?  Micro-analyze P/E, profit margins all you want, he is one of the few leaders who has reinvented his company repeatedly. Why do we assume he doesn't know what he is doing? 

 

Because the past 3 years have shown that outside of retail, he really doesn't. 

post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Why do we assume we know better than Jeff Bezos, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the internet era?  Micro-analyze P/E, profit margins all you want, he is one of the few leaders who has reinvented his company repeatedly. Why do we assume he doesn't know what he is doing? And why are we dissing his company based on rumors?

 

Because they're daring to compete against Apple. The fanboys don't need any other reason to viciously attack them.  And worse Amazon is competing against them using an OS created by Apple's arch-nemesis Google. Which of course makes those products double damned by the Apple fanboys.

post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Why do we assume we know better than Jeff Bezos, one of the most successful entrepreneurs of the internet era?  Micro-analyze P/E, profit margins all you want, he is one of the few leaders who has reinvented his company repeatedly. Why do we assume he doesn't know what he is doing? And why are we dissing his company based on rumors?

If you want to take that position, why do you think you know better than Apple - probably THE most successful company of recent years? By your logic, you should immediately stop criticizing Apple.

In any event, your logic really doesn't fly. Amazon has created a powerful business model and has convinced investors that it's worth almost 200 times earnings, but hasn't been as successful in other areas. For example, Fire was a pretty solid disappointment. I can't think of anything other than retail where Amazon has been successful. And where do you come up with the idea that he reinvented his company repeatedly? They're using the same business model that they've always used with only very minor changes.
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post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

 

Because they're daring to compete against Apple. The fanboys don't need any other reason to viciously attack them.  And worse Amazon is competing against them using an OS created by Apple's arch-nemesis Google. Which of course makes those products double damned by the Apple fanboys.

 

 

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/05/demand_for_kindle_fire_collapses_as_apples_ipad_continues_to_dominate.html

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57453699-93/ipad-still-dominates-tablet-traffic-but-nook-surges-past-kindle-fire/

 

The "Apple fanboys" predicted the Kindle Fire Fail even before it hit the shelves. You might want to start paying attention to them. Seems like a pretty prescient bunch. 

post #25 of 36

meh still getting a nexus 7 unless they announce the ipad7" soon

post #26 of 36
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Originally Posted by Coojo View Post

meh still getting a nexus 7 unless they announce the ipad7" soon

Enjoy your Nexus 7.
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Enjoy your Nexus 7.

There is certainly a case to be made for Apple releasing a smaller tablet.

1) They have an iPod-like domination of an entire market that could broken if they other vendors can make 7" tablets popular.

2) They shell game used to locate a 7.85" display size that could still use original iPhone's 163 PPI display investments could reduce costs thus making it feasible to play the low cost tablet game whilst turning a healthy profit.

3) If Apple can lose out to a 7" tablet market to Android it will create a market for tablet apps on Android which would make it harder to fend off larger tablets or create a smaller tablet once an ecosystem is established.

It's all looking very feasible to me.

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post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

There is certainly a case to be made for Apple releasing a smaller tablet.
1) They have an iPod-like domination of an entire market that could broken if they other vendors can make 7" tablets popular.
2) They shell game used to locate a 7.85" display size that could still use original iPhone's 163 PPI display investments could reduce costs thus making it feasible to play the low cost tablet game whilst turning a healthy profit.
3) If Apple can lose out to a 7" tablet market to Android it will create a market for tablet apps on Android which would make it harder to fend off larger tablets or create a smaller tablet once an ecosystem is established.
It's all looking very feasible to me.

We saw the same four years ago, but with "2-inch" and "iPhone nano" instead. *shrug*
post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

We saw the same four years ago, but with "2-inch" and "iPhone nano" instead. *shrug*

I'm not following. "but with 2" and iPhone nano instead"?

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post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm not following. "but with 2" and iPhone nano instead"?

How there were many valid arguments for a smaller-screened iPhone under a different name. I mention this, once again, not because of the features of the devices in question, but as an example of Apple ignoring what an assumed-large subsection of the market thought they wanted.
post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How there were many valid arguments for a smaller-screened iPhone under a different name. I mention this, once again, not because of the features of the devices in question, but as an example of Apple ignoring what an assumed-large subsection of the market thought they wanted.

The same argument applies. Apple apparently didn't think a simpler phone was worth their while but that doesn't mean that there will never be a case where a simpler device will never be worth their while. As previously stated they might actually make a healthy profit because they can use tech from soon-to-be retired iPhone manufacturing. They've also never had handset or smartphone monopoly but they had one with PMPs where they did make a series of different models.

If I were you I wouldn't rule it out even if your position is that it's unlikely.

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post #32 of 36
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Because the past 3 years have shown that outside of retail, he really doesn't. 


I wholeheartedly disagree. AWS was a pioneer in cloud computing and remains a top player in this area.  If you think Amazon is all about retail, I believe you are missing something big.

post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


If you want to take that position, why do you think you know better than Apple - probably THE most successful company of recent years? By your logic, you should immediately stop criticizing Apple.
In any event, your logic really doesn't fly. Amazon has created a powerful business model and has convinced investors that it's worth almost 200 times earnings, but hasn't been as successful in other areas. For example, Fire was a pretty solid disappointment. I can't think of anything other than retail where Amazon has been successful. And where do you come up with the idea that he reinvented his company repeatedly? They're using the same business model that they've always used with only very minor changes.

 

WTF?


When have I consistently stated that Apple would not succeed at something? 

 

I occasionally would disagree with Apple practices but mostly praise their approach and products.

 

Look at the comments here - so many people suggesting Amazon doesn't have a chance, doesn't know what it is doing, doesn't know how to do anything except lose money, etc., etc.  Have I ever suggested Apple doesn't stand a chance in anything? WTF are you talking about?

 

As for saying that Amazon has not succeeded at anything other than retail and has never reinvented itself, that's like saying Apple has not succeeded at anything other than designing computers and related electronic products.

 

AWS, by the way, is pretty successful.  Is that retail?  Fire was a dud, but the Kindle series overall has not been such. That's not retail either, BTW.  You're cherry-picking to make your case.

 

No question, Apple is a far far more profitable company. But Amazon has diversified much more. That's not a slight on Apple but you will probably take it as much and come up with more baseless accusations.

 

I understand some of you have a mission here to make everything non-Apple sound like crap so that your Apple stock will go up. But don't come up with crap like "why do you think you know better than Apple" when I have never made any statement suggesting I do. You ought to make a retraction.


Edited by ankleskater - 7/8/12 at 8:39pm
post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

 

Because they're daring to compete against Apple. The fanboys don't need any other reason to viciously attack them.  And worse Amazon is competing against them using an OS created by Apple's arch-nemesis Google. Which of course makes those products double damned by the Apple fanboys.

 

 

In my book, "vicious attacks" usually involve casualties, blood, and persistent debilitating results… Why go all "sensational" with the rhetoric here? Following a bit too much tabloid news these days? "Daring to compete", and "viciously attack", and "arch-nemesis"… "double damned"… wow. Quite a picture you have of these wild, terrorista "fanboys". Do we really have to go there? It's fairly spurious in the end...

 

Me, I'm just a happy Mac/OSX/iOS (iPhone/iPad) user… is that alright with you?

 

I occasionally have opinions about competing products and companies, to which I say, INNOVATE AND COMPETE! PLEASE! Just don't 'slavishly copy' or steal ideas… otherwise, go for it, and I'll happily opine...

 

I think Bezos has masterfully run Amazon over the past 15 years or so. I've been both a customer and investor from time to time. I don't think the Fire will take any markets by storm like the iPad has, but it will massage revenue streams for Amazon, help to keep them relevant, and will keep their fingers in more pies… (their 'diverse product portfolio' is what helps to keep them alive).

 

I'm not an investor now. I prefer companies with a P/E below 25, and those are getting much harder to find. And, like Apple, when you do find them they're less affordable.

 

Wait… do I need to do some rabid fanboy stuff too? OK here….. iPad is the KING, Apple rules! M$ Surface and Google Android are just slaves to Apple's lead…. 

 

OK, there you go… have fun with that… ;)

post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


There is certainly a case to be made for Apple releasing a smaller tablet.
1) They have an iPod-like domination of an entire market that could broken if they other vendors can make 7" tablets popular.
2) They shell game used to locate a 7.85" display size that could still use original iPhone's 163 PPI display investments could reduce costs thus making it feasible to play the low cost tablet game whilst turning a healthy profit.
3) If Apple can lose out to a 7" tablet market to Android it will create a market for tablet apps on Android which would make it harder to fend off larger tablets or create a smaller tablet once an ecosystem is established.
It's all looking very feasible to me.

I agree.  A smaller iPad would be an entry level device that requires no contract.  Once in the ecosystem, you sell these same customers an iPhone, a full sized iPad, and even perhaps a Mac when the time comes that they can afford such devices.  Think teenagers and young adults.  

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post #36 of 36

Related, and something I've not seen mentioned here yet: Like Apple, Amazon has also purchased their own 3D mapping company, UpNext. They can currently be found in the AppStore, tho I wonder how long that will last. After all, Face.com pulled their app from the appStore, even discontinuing developers API support, after Facebook acquired them. That despite Face.com assurances to the contrary.

http://upnext.com/press.html

http://gigaom.com/2012/07/02/exclusive-amazon-buys-3d-mapping-startup-upnext/


Edited by Gatorguy - 7/9/12 at 7:53am
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