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Apple pulls products from government-backed 'green electronics' list - Page 5

post #161 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

I have been an Apple fan for a while, and i have been directly or indirectly been responsible for quite a few Apple purchases, through friends, family or work. I am however starting to have a problem with what Apple is becoming. Put simply, I think the bean counters are gaining control of the company. They are getting too greedy and complacent. The glued in batteries, non upgradeable memory, and proprietary ssd hard drives are really just the last straw. I also find that my iPad feels like a controlled prison. I have al ready purchased an Android phone and I will likely find other alternatives for my next laptop purchase. I am angry at Apple.

Lol. Will you please come back a few months from now and tell us how the alternatives worked out for you on all these attributes.
post #162 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

I have been an Apple fan for a while, and i have been directly or indirectly been responsible for quite a few Apple purchases, through friends, family or work. I am however starting to have a problem with what Apple is becoming. Put simply, I think the bean counters are gaining control of the company. They are getting too greedy and complacent. The glued in batteries, non upgradeable memory, and proprietary ssd hard drives are really just the last straw. I also find that my iPad feels like a controlled prison. I have al ready purchased an Android phone and I will likely find other alternatives for my next laptop purchase. I am angry at Apple.

 

Hilarious. Glue: another sign of the apocalypse. If all you have is a screwdriver, then the whole world looks screwed. I mean clearly, you can't dissolve glue with a screwdriver, so Apple is "greedy and complacent" (???)

 

What you're saying is: you want a commodity PC laptop built from common-off-the-shelf (COTS) components held together with screws and creaky plastic. HP and Dell have got you covered.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #163 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

You should really take a half day out of your important life and visit, say, the local dump. Many of the hills one sees are mountains of garbage. Stay and watch while truckloads come and dump their loads. You will first enter a large secured site, and drive miles of dirty roads as you climb the "mountain". The dirty underneath your car wasn't there a decade ago, but excavated from deepening holes and dumped on top of garbage, then spread out by heavy equipment which "buries" the garbage, then flattened to make a pathway for your car and loaded trucks as they climb higher up the garbage mountain. There at the top of you will drive over partially buried bricks, clothes, coat hangers, children's dolls, decaying refuse in black plastic bags with wire ties, All day, the heavy machinery is plowing and moving the newly deposited garbage around, while more garbage comes along with truckloads of excavated dirt. It's loud; maybe 100 decibels or more as the machines do their work moving the new dirt on top of new garbage then packing them down to make a plateau of garbage, your garbage. Next week, go back again, and the garbage you dumped the week before will have been buried, the garbage mountain just a little higher than the week before; the road you traveled just a little bit steeper, until they decide to make a new road up to the new plateau. 

 

Think of what you are seeing, and image how this area was and how much life it contained before we acquired it for a dump. You will see nothing living there, and life will not return. Apple's genius will be long forgotten; the dumps will remain our lasting legacy. 

 

This is a very short-sighted and almost certainly false picture you're painting here.  It adheres to currently accepted thought on the matter but doesn't take the future into account.  

 

The garbage piles and city dumps of today will certainly not be (paraphrased) "lifeless forever."  It's far more likely that the dumps of the 20th and 21st centuries will actually be a wonderful benefit to the resource starved people of the future.  Today's dumps will also be the future's archaeological goldmines as well.  

 

The idea that the city dump is some sad, lifeless, scar that will "never be healed" is ridiculous.  

post #164 of 197
I wonder what the environmental costs are for a device that has little to no aftermarket value and therefore isn't resold or handed down to friends/family often or at all?

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post #165 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Apple states, "Our goal in 2010 was to achieve a worldwide recycling rate of 70 percent. (To calculate this rate, we use a measurement proposed by Dell that assumes a seven-year product lifetime. The weight of the materials we recycle each year is compared to the total weight of the products Apple sold seven years earlier.) We met and exceeded that goal in 2010. This far surpasses the last reported numbers from Dell and HP, which were each lower than 20 percent. In 2011, Apple global recycling once again exceeded our 70 percent goal, and we are confident that we will maintain this level through 2015." (4).

That is impressive data.

Too bad groups like Greenpeace and EPEAT are more interested in companies who kowtow to them than in companies who really make a difference.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #166 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

I have been an Apple fan for a while, and i have been directly or indirectly been responsible for quite a few Apple purchases, through friends, family or work. I am however starting to have a problem with what Apple is becoming. Put simply, I think the bean counters are gaining control of the company. They are getting too greedy and complacent. The glued in batteries, non upgradeable memory, and proprietary ssd hard drives are really just the last straw. I also find that my iPad feels like a controlled prison. I have al ready purchased an Android phone and I will likely find other alternatives for my next laptop purchase. I am angry at Apple.


I don't understand your anger. You appear to be upset about a single criteria "upgradeability" when Apple has dramatically lowered the cost of manufacturer upgrades to a reasonable amount. Apple provides superior products when judged by virtually every criteria versus any single competing product:

* Apple has led the PC industry in customer satisfaction for eight years!

* Apple leads customer satisfaction in the smartphone industry with an astonishing 75% of customers "very satisfied," nearly 30% higher than the nearest competitor.

* Apple iPhone has the highest customer retention rate.

* Apple won handily in the desktop, notebook and smartphone categories for reliability, according to PCWorld's annual Reliability and Service Survey.

* Apple's approval rating for laptop reliability has risen from 82.3 percent in 2008 to 90.6 percent in 2011, according to PCWorld.

* According to PCWorld, "The ten most common laptop problems that our readers reported encountering were with (in descending order of frequency) the operating system (19.2 percent), the hard drive (17.8 percent), the power supply (10.6 percent), the graphics or video system (8.8 percent), the keyboard (8.6 percent), the motherboard (8.5 percent), the screen (6.1 percent), the wireless connection (6 percent), the optical drive (5 percent), and the system memory or RAM (3.9 percent)." This suggests that when purchasing, choice of operating system is the most important factor for reliability.

* Apple has the best smartphone reliability according to Square Trade.

* PCWorld's survey of tablet users found that no tablet could beat out the iPad in reliability or satisfaction with features.

* Apple iPhone offers much less expensive prices for apps than Android.

* Apple products are highly secure as evidenced by only two significantly successful malware threats in the last ten years (MacDefender and Flashback) across their entire product line. In fact, Dino Dai Zovi commented about OS X Lion that, “It's a significant improvement, and the best way that I've described the level of security in Lion is that it's Windows 7, plus, plus.” Dino Dai Zovi is Co-founder and CTO of Trail of Bits, an independent information security company.

* Apple iPhone 4S performance surpassed all competing products, with few rivals even 8 months later and continues to be the benchmark against which all other smartphones are measured.

* Apple has the market leading ecosystem with:

* 28 million (mostly) DRM-free songs worldwide (many encoded as 256 kbit/s AAC)
* 1,000,000+ podcasts (USA)
* 40,000+ music videos (USA)
* 3,000+ TV shows (USA)
* 20,000+ audiobooks (USA)
* 2,500+ movies (USA)
* 725,700 App Store Apps with more than 25 billion downloads in more than 155 countries
* Apple has more than 70% of the digital music downloads market share

* Apple iTunes provides seamless synchronization of Apps, audiobooks, Books, calendars, contacts, movies, music, podcasts, and TV shows between iOS and OS X or Microsoft Windows
* Apple iCloud provides seamless synchronization of Apps, audiobooks, Books, calendars, contacts, movies, music, podcasts, TV shows in the cloud
* Apple iTunes AirPlay provides wireless media playback between iOS and OS X or Microsoft Windows

* Apple iTunes in the Cloud provides free, unlimited perpetual storage and access on-demand to the entire catalog of purchased movies, music and TV shows

* Apple iTunes Match allows users to download up to 25,000 tracks in 256 kbit/s DRM-free AAC file format that match tracks in any supported audio file format, including ALAC and mp3, in the customers' iTunes libraries, with users having the additional option on their computers to keep the original version stored there or to replace it with the version from the iTunes Store as they wish

* Apple iCloud provides free mail, calendars and contacts
* Apple iCloud provides 5 GB free storage which enables bookmarks, calendars, contacts, data & document, email, notes, to-do lists synchronization across devices and platforms
* Apple Photo Stream provides up to one month storage of up to 1,000 digital photographs with synchronization across devices
* Apple iCloud "Back to my Mac" service automatically configures ad hoc, on-demand, point-to-point encrypted connections between computers using IPSec.

* Apple iCloud "Find my iPhone" allows users to track the location of their iOS device or Mac with the ability to see the device's approximate location on a map (along with a circle showing the radius depicting the margin of error), display a message or play a sound on the device (even if it is set to silent), change the password on the device, and remotely erase its contents
* Apple iCloud allows users the option to back up iOS devices online and restore from online backup without connecting to a computer

* Apple provides consumer content creation and editing apps for apps, textbooks, movies (and TV shows), music and digital photography
* Apple provides professional content creation and editing apps for movies (and TV shows), music and digital photography
Edited by MacBook Pro - 7/8/12 at 12:07pm
post #167 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Sucks for whom?
Apple's doing fine.

 

They are, for sure, but I'd personally like them to dominate the biz/govt market as well. 

post #168 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

All this sensationalism about Apple is making me want to start my own personal compost heap, if you know what I mean. lol.gif

 

Well you do talk a lot of crap sometimes.

post #169 of 197

Seems an odd move given the potential impact on sales and the fact that Apple has really been pushing how "green" their products are for the past few years.

post #170 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That is impressive data.
Too bad groups like Greenpeace and EPEAT are more interested in companies who kowtow to them than in companies who really make a difference.

Apple has a 45% higher recycling rate than the industry average. Impressive indeed.

Obviously, the industry needs to follow Apple's lead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

They are, for sure, but I'd personally like them to dominate the biz/govt market as well. 

I am not convinced that this will signal the end for Apple:

* Many competing products are not EPEAT certified. Apple's key product lines are currently (arguably) iPad, iPhone and Mac of which an EPEAT rating does not exist for iPad or iPhone (tablets and smartphones, respectively).
* Many competing products are not upgradeable. In fact, Apple is more honest than competitors as Apple provides guidance during the purchasing process, "If you feel you may need 8GB in the future, it is important to upgrade at the time of purchase, as RAM is not upgradeable in this model." (1) I could not find such guidance at some competitor's website despite having the same limitation.
* Many competing products are functionally no more repairable or upgradeable than Apple. For example, repairs and upgrades performed by an other than authorized service center are not covered under warranty.



1. Unattributed. No Published Date provided. Configure your 13-inch MacBook Air. Apple. Retrieved 8 July 2012.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 7/8/12 at 1:20pm
post #171 of 197

Funny how all these new critics never complained about the iPhone and iPad and their lack of EPEAT certification. Suddenly it's an issue? Seems to be they just want to jump on the "Hate the RMBP" bandwagon for whatever reason. I wonder what that might be.

post #172 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

Funny how all these new critics never complained about the iPhone and iPad and their lack of EPEAT certification. Suddenly it's an issue? Seems to be they just want to jump on the "Hate the RMBP" bandwagon for whatever reason. I wonder what that might be.

See the post immediately preceding in which I describe the lack of EPEAT ratings for tablets and smartphones. In my opinion this is fairly standard anymore, react without knowing details.
Quote:
"an EPEAT rating does not exist for iPad or iPhone (tablets and smartphones, respectively)."
post #173 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Apple has a 45% higher recycling rate than the industry average. Impressive indeed.
Obviously, the industry needs to follow Apple's lead.
I am not convinced that this will signal the end for Apple:
* Many competing products are not EPEAT certified. Apple's key product lines are currently (arguably) iPad, iPhone and Mac of which an EPEAT rating does not exist for iPad or iPhone (tablets and smartphones, respectively).
* Many competing products are not upgradeable. In fact, Apple is more honest than competitors as Apple provides guidance during the purchasing process, "If you feel you may need 8GB in the future, it is important to upgrade at the time of purchase, as RAM is not upgradeable in this model." (1) I could not find such guidance at some competitor's website despite having the same limitation.
* Many competing products are functionally no more repairable or upgradeable than Apple. For example, repairs and upgrades performed by an other than authorized service center are not covered under warranty.
1. Unattributed. No Published Date provided. Configure your 13-inch MacBook Air. Apple. Retrieved 8 July 2012.

Nice points in this thread. It's interesting that the biggest sellers in tech are completely ignored. While I can see why an iPod would not be a high consideration for government purchases or business, in general, handset and tablets certainly are.

It looks like there is a void in the market right now that can judge a product based on how it was made, what it's made of and packaged, and it's expected average life. Too bad I'm not the guy to do this.

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post #174 of 197
Why on earth would any manufacturer want to help make last years product repairable? This is just logical from a business stance and as long as the custom keep coming in thick and fast they ain't bothered.
post #175 of 197
A brilliant move of course removing all products from the register. There can be no drip drip of complaints when it gets to the day when Apple can prove they have not one screw loose. You don't need to be highly clued to know Apple's future is all glued.
post #176 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How many people can even have a broad understand of what EPEAT is or what the acronym EPEAT stands for? I could have given the former and their rating nomenclature (not what the levels mean) but I couldn't have told you what EPEAT stood for.
I know nothing about it. But if it has anything to do with a government agency I'm suspicious, but the knee jerk reactions really bother me. There is zero evidence that Apple's products are less recyclable today than they were a few years ago. And zero evidence that there stuff just ends up in a landfill somewhere.
post #177 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

I have been an Apple fan for a while, and i have been directly or indirectly been responsible for quite a few Apple purchases, through friends, family or work. I am however starting to have a problem with what Apple is becoming. Put simply, I think the bean counters are gaining control of the company. They are getting too greedy and complacent. The glued in batteries, non upgradeable memory, and proprietary ssd hard drives are really just the last straw. I also find that my iPad feels like a controlled prison. I have al ready purchased an Android phone and I will likely find other alternatives for my next laptop purchase. I am angry at Apple.

Why are you angry at Apple? You KNEW what you were buying each time. What, you didn't know the iPad runs on Apple's ecosystem?

Have fun on the other side. Of course, when you find out that the competition is beginning to mimic Apple even in the ways you hate (and they will), you'll find out a lot of your bluster was for nothing.
post #178 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

The thing that concerns me is that the Govt and many large corporations require their purchases to be EPEAT certified. It really sucks to be blocked out of a whole market like that.

Macs have never been a strong suit in government and large corporations. I think they've done far better with tablet sales to these organizations - which apparently aren't covered under the standard, at least yet. US Government sales of Macs might still fit within the 5% exception.
post #179 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Macs have never been a strong suit in government and large corporations. I think they've done far better with tablet sales to these organizations - which apparently aren't covered under the standard, at least yet. US Government sales of Macs might still fit within the 5% exception.

I suspect an upcoming release of an EPEAT rating for tablets and smartphones may be one reason Apple took this action. If the manufacturer responsible for more than half of all tablets and nearly one-third of all smartphones doesn't subscribe to the rating the adoption of the rating is a non-sequitor.
post #180 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


You drop Apple over this lack of EPEAT, to go to a computer that lacks EPEAT
That's logical


With the System 76 I could access the internal parts. That makes a difference. It would also come with a CD/DVD drive. That is something I use to this day. It is also less expensive with equal or perhaps better performance.

 

I've learned there is a way for me to run Powerpoint within Linux using a couple of programs. That is the only Windows program I would use. I have an old Windows XP OS that I could run virtually to use Netflix. If the hardware is good enough to handle the load and do the jobs I require, then it would probably do well for me. I do agree that Apple software is the best OS for ease of use out of the box. These days Linux is just as good once all of the tweaking is done.

post #181 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

This really has nothing to do with them being green or talking about it.
It's about abiding by a particular standard for 'being green'. That's all. EPEAT is about being able to open the computer with standard screwdrivers etc to pull out the battery and toss the rest in a shredder. But is that really the best way to recycle. Might it actually be better to strip the components apart and do it that way. Is shredding everything together better than perhaps the machine going back to Apple to be disassembled and the enclosure somehow melted down to be pressed into a new enclosure, the rare earth metals melted down etc. And if this way a step towards Apple offering an incentive like they do for iPods, that wouldn't be a bad thing.
And the govt thing is a bit moot cause Congress and Obama can change those rules if they want to.

It was an executive order so only Obama needed to countermand.
post #182 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Amusingly, if you search for "remove glue" on Google, it returns 19.6 million results.

Maybe it's not such a big deal after all.

 

 

Quote:

Google also shows 15.7 million results for "remove nuclear weapons" so that might not be the best evidence

 

And it depends on the answers aswell. You can find a lot of problemsolving on the net with no good answers! lol.gif
 

Sorry didnt use quote function...


Edited by habi - 7/8/12 at 11:51pm
post #183 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple || 

 

They should mind their own business. They have no business dictating their extremist religious beliefs unto others. If somebody wants to be all green and go live in a tree for the rest of their lives and never use toilet paper ever again, then good for them, as long as they keep their distance from me. But these loons have no right to impose their beliefs unto others. 

Well, it is their own business as well as everyone else's business. The year isn't 1600, and today, how everyone conducts their business has an effect on everyone else. Also, while you are correct in saying their position is extremist, they don't get to dictate much of anything to anybody. Sure, they can lobby the government with their limited budgets, and they can try to sway popular opinion. I doubt they really have that much effect in the grand scheme of things.

post #184 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Good. I've always felt that Apple spends too much time talking up the whole green angle during their keynotes, and it has zero effect on my eventual purchase of any Apple product. That's probably the least important feature of any Apple device, in my opinion. And it doesn't really matter anyway, because Apple will still get the imbeciles from Greenpeace attacking them, no matter what they do.

 

I also usually view products labelled with "green" as a negative thing, and I try to stay away from "green" products, such as certain hard drives. In the case of the hard drives, "green" is practically synonymous with inferior, slower and worse.

Wow, what a nice person you must be! I bet when you're shopping for food you intentionally pick up the factory farmed meat instead of the free range, because you'll never have to live in a cage so small you can't move, so why should you care? Heck why even care about Chinese slave labour because you'll never be a Chinese slave and all you want are cheaper prices.

 

We only have one planet, and it's resources are running out far, far quicker than the planet can replenish them. Every company should make their products with as little energy as possible, and ensure they can be repaired and recycled easily and quickly. 

 

You need to grow up and read up about the terrible state the planet is in and how big companies are largely to blame. 

post #185 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

I have been an Apple fan for a while, and i have been directly or indirectly been responsible for quite a few Apple purchases, through friends, family or work. I am however starting to have a problem with what Apple is becoming. Put simply, I think the bean counters are gaining control of the company. They are getting too greedy and complacent. The glued in batteries, non upgradeable memory, and proprietary ssd hard drives are really just the last straw. I also find that my iPad feels like a controlled prison. I have al ready purchased an Android phone and I will likely find other alternatives for my next laptop purchase. I am angry at Apple.

I would like to note that you have established a false dichotomy.

System 76 does not offer products that compete directly with MacBook Air, MacBook Pro or MacBook Pro with Retina Display. The target demographics are vastly different; ultraportable, powerful portable and powerful ultraportable (for Apple) versus portable (for System 67). System 76 does not offer a laptop under 4.5 pounds, no dedicated graphics, no integration with Apple services (iCloud and iTunes).

System 76 is functionally no more upgradeable or repairable than Apple MacBook Air or MacBook Pro with Retina Display. I was unable to find readily available make and model information for RAM upgrades or battery replacements.

"Importantly, this limited product warranty does not cover:

non-System 76 branded hardware products and accessories e.g., monitors, speakers, printers, portable devices, etc.; software, including the operating system and software as well as any third party software; product that has been damaged by actions that are beyond System 76's control, including for example, impacts, fluids, fire, flood, wind, earthquake, lightning or similar disaster, war, strike, lockout, epidemic, destruction of production facilities, riot, insurrection, or material unavailability; product that has been damaged through misuse, abuse or mishandling, including without limitation the unauthorized modification of the system as a whole or any individual component, and/or the attachment of peripheral devices; product for which System 76 has not received payment; or paint or finish." (1)

Further, I am surprised that you would succumb to the logical fallacy of "proprietary systems." Virtually every company in the Information Management product sand services sector provides proprietary solutions; Adobe, Amazon, AMD, Apple, Cisco, eBay, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Oracle. The only important factors for consumers to consider about "proprietary systems" are; is product service and support readily available, is product training readily available? The emphatic answer for Apple aficionados is an emphatic, Yes! In fact, as previously stated, Apple provides market leading customer service and support in every major market in which they compete. With hundreds of retail stores worldwide and thousands of authorized service providers, service and support is also readily available.


1. Unattributed. No Published DAte provided. Warranty and Returns. System 76. Retrieved 9 July 2012.
post #186 of 197

This is unfortunate.  Apple needs to be proactive in this field.  Speak up, Tim Cook!

post #187 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post



I am not convinced that this will signal the end for Apple:
 

 

 

I've not heard any predictions that this signals the end for Apple.  

post #188 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Wow, what a nice person you must be! I bet when you're shopping for food you intentionally pick up the factory farmed meat instead of the free range, because you'll never have to live in a cage so small you can't move, so why should you care? Heck why even care about Chinese slave labour because you'll never be a Chinese slave and all you want are cheaper prices.

 

We only have one planet, and it's resources are running out far, far quicker than the planet can replenish them. Every company should make their products with as little energy as possible, and ensure they can be repaired and recycled easily and quickly. 

 

You need to grow up and read up about the terrible state the planet is in and how big companies are largely to blame. 

 Indeed, even worse, he seems to get some kind of sexual gratification from the idea that people have suffered making his beloved Apple products. The first post of his that I had the misfortune to read mocked the suicides of the Chinese Foxconn workers. I instantly concluded that he is a very flawed person. As a result of reading other posts of his I now have a mental picture of a teenager living with his mother in a large conurbation, he lives fairly close to his high school, he is a virgin (he really believes that only attractive women own iPhones) and socially awkward. As a loner he spends all of his free time at home. His father may have been absent for sometime, hence he feels it is necessary to over compensate and try to appear to be macho and dispassionate. His inability to make real friends explains his desire to be part of the "apple family", treating it as a credo that must not be questioned.. Naturally I am not saying that any of the above is true but some of his posts have been some of the most offensive I have ever read.

 

If I am correct I guess we can hope that when he matures he will become a more rounded person. If i am wrong then I am gald that he only has one vote.

post #189 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

A brilliant move of course removing all products from the register. There can be no drip drip of complaints when it gets to the day when Apple can prove they have not one screw loose. You don't need to be highly clued to know Apple's future is all glued.

And while I laud the original goals of EPEAT to allow consumers to use "common tools" to facilitate recycling, how many consumers have really done that? I've tried to harvest batteries from rechargeable devices before tossing them, and some devices are downright impossible despite the laughable "instructions" for battery removal that many such products have.

I think Apple dramatically pulling out of EPEAT is their somewhat clumsy attempt to point out that in this day and age, the emperor has no clothes. Consumers aren't the ones that need to actively reclaim materials for recycling - qualified recyclers are.

The original goals of EPEAT were nobel, if not a bit naive and impractical. Apple has already shown their current approaches are far more effective - approaches that don't need nor benefit from the arbitrary EPEAT certification.

BTW - EPEAT is a bit of a scam. Manufacturers self certify - there is no independent verification of their claims. And vendors have to pay. So let's review - a questionable standard that was well intentioned but proven impractical, that really has no weight behind it and to top it off you have to pay for. Hmm - I see no reason for Apple to want to get out of that :P
post #190 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgot username View Post

This is unfortunate.  Apple needs to be proactive in this field.

Who is more proactive than Apple "in this field".

Seriously - show us one company that focuses on and does more than Apple - not just talking about it, but showing it through their actions?
post #191 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I would like to note that you have established a false dichotomy. [...] I was unable to find readily available make and model information for RAM upgrades or battery replacements. [...] Further, I am surprised that you would succumb to the logical fallacy of "proprietary systems." Virtually every company in the Information Management product sand services sector provides proprietary solutions

Excellent points. I always shake my head when people criticize the 30 pin iPod connector when praising Europe for "standardizing" mini-USB - while conveniently overlooking that USB is in, itself, a proprietary connection.
post #192 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

 

 

I've not heard any predictions that this signals the end for Apple.  

 

Certainly not. But the faster they move to 100% non user serviceable products means they guarantee impressive long term income even after any decline..
post #193 of 197
I would think this now means that all United States Federal agencies will stop buying Apple products.
post #194 of 197
http://www.apple.com/environment/ Best to read it while you can? "be as energy efficient and recyclable as possible." 1 out of 2 ain't bad.
post #195 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

 Indeed, even worse, he seems to get some kind of sexual gratification from the idea that people have suffered making his beloved Apple products. The first post of his that I had the misfortune to read mocked the suicides of the Chinese Foxconn workers. I instantly concluded that he is a very flawed person. As a result of reading other posts of his I now have a mental picture of a teenager living with his mother in a large conurbation, he lives fairly close to his high school, he is a virgin (he really believes that only attractive women own iPhones) and socially awkward. As a loner he spends all of his free time at home. His father may have been absent for sometime, hence he feels it is necessary to over compensate and try to appear to be macho and dispassionate. His inability to make real friends explains his desire to be part of the "apple family", treating it as a credo that must not be questioned.. Naturally I am not saying that any of the above is true but some of his posts have been some of the most offensive I have ever read.

If I am correct I guess we can hope that when he matures he will become a more rounded person. If i am wrong then I am gald that he only has one vote.

From his very first post, the image that comes to my mind is Eric Cartman.
post #196 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh, look.  More government.  This is exactly why we can't build anything in this country anymore.   

More government is not the problem, at least not in the sense you mean. It is too much government when the government subsidizes and encourages companies to send work abroad. It has nothing to do with environmental protections. In addition, government policies always favor the big guy over the little guy even though 75% of jobs are the little guy.

 

In addition, investors, in cahoots with the big bankers, contribute nothing to the US economy and in fact are actively engaged in its destruction. 

 

Investors want high returns on their investments -- don't we all?. So instead of investing in productive activities (like businesses that make things), they invest in money and debt. If you don't know, you need a review. If you as an investor want to make a lot of money (as opposed to product) your best bet is to invest in money. Payday loans are great with 400% interest earned, but high risk. Or investment in credit card debt, which earns 18 to 24% interest -- no longer high risk because Congress got bribed like they always do by making credit card debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. If an investor invests in small companies (or banks that give loans to smaller and local companies), then you will not be making any 18%. Small businesses support the local economies and the local economies remain viable because of the multiplier effect of local employees and local businesses buying local,  supporting locally-built homes, farms, local schools and teachers, etc. Investors in these businesses might make 3% on their investments, but that 3% supports entire communities and not some Bain Capital or JP Morgan billionaires. It's the same 3% if you invest in infrastructure, or generic drugs, or any industry that is stable and long term -- think water supply, family farms, maintenance services like electrical, plumbing, home maintenance, nuts, bolts, nails, fabric, shoes, etc.

 

You also have to remember, if you ever knew it, that the average US economic growth is 3% per year, of which 1% is due to 1% growth in population, leaving about 2% for actual economic growth. Of course, there will be industries and companies doing much better than 3%, and one can try investing in these companies for relatively short term gains. Investment in the stock markets have little to do with adding to productivity. Except for the initial IPO companies don't directly benefit from their stock valuations. If companies hold some of their own stock, then it can be used as collateral for debt incurred to improve and increase production and R&D. Other than that, companies get no benefit from stock evaluations. If an investor wants to support a company's productivity, they have to purchase a company's private bonds. 

 

Basically, the big investors today, and for decades now, make their money the old fashioned way: "rape and pillage". If you can buy up a company, you put some marginal amount in, borrow the rest, and shift the debt load to the company you just bought. For the investors, these are non-recourse loans -- an investor cannot lose any more than his initial marginal investment, and if you can shift even that marginal amount to the purchased company, all the better. Now, that previously viable company is loaded with debt, often far greater than they can pay off. In order to pay off that debt, the company is downsized, parts sold off, wages slashed, or moved offshore, products cheapened by buying from cheaper suppliers. And if the big banks can do better by bundling and selling the new debt as CDO's (collateralized debt obligations) and selling it to other investors, all the better. The initial investors can make a second bundle of money off this mechanism.

 

This is how the bubble economy works. Housing, big banking, savings and loans in the 1980's -- all bubble. Health care industries is another bubble industry for which substantial debt is being incurred and is unsustainable in the long term and has been for at least a couple of decades. When the housing and financial bubble collapsed, the government propped up the bubble economy with bailouts. Because the financial industry is about 40% of the economy, the economy took a close to 40% hit. At that time, the financial folks advising both Bush and Obama indicated that the economy would take about 12 years to return to "normal". There is nothing magical about this 12 years. That is about the value of 3% growth compounded annually over 12 years -- that is, 1.03^12 gives 1.426. 


Edited by waldobushman - 7/10/12 at 10:14am
post #197 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

This is a very short-sighted and almost certainly false picture you're painting here.  It adheres to currently accepted thought on the matter but doesn't take the future into account.  

 

The garbage piles and city dumps of today will certainly not be (paraphrased) "lifeless forever."  It's far more likely that the dumps of the 20th and 21st centuries will actually be a wonderful benefit to the resource starved people of the future.  Today's dumps will also be the future's archaeological goldmines as well.  

 

The idea that the city dump is some sad, lifeless, scar that will "never be healed" is ridiculous.  

Wishful thinking. What I described is today, and for the foreseeable future. Yes, in the generations to come, maybe these mountains will be dug up and the fetid materials reused, and somewhere in academia, scientists (or maybe just philosophers) are considering how this might be done, but at this time, your vision is too similar to a dream sequence. A more likely scenario is the one proposed in the movie "Idiocracy". 

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