Steve Wozniak on Microsoft Surface: 'Steve Jobs came back reincarnated at Microsoft' - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

I see it much like the Zune was a last ditch effort to use their 900 pound gorilla influence to gain some traction in the PMP market.

This is what a number of tech writers and analysts are saying. This is the same old Microsoft that announced a product months ahead, with no details, in an attempt to squash competitor sales. It used to work as many upstarts found out the hard way. People waited for the MS product, the upstart died on the vine, was purchased by MS which then released the product as their own. That isn't going to work this time. Consumers will not wait and the target moves too fast for that anyway. By the time the Surface is actually on the shelves it will most likely be a generation behind what Apple and Google are working on right now. Ballmer just doesn't get it. He's moving to where the puck is, not where it is going to be to quote Wayne Gretzky.

That's like saying Vint Cerf shouldn't talk about IPv6 since it's so far removed from IPv4.

Like Vint, Woz is one of the grandfathers of our technology.  Without him, there would be no Apple.

SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cronked 

Two questions:

 

1.  Why does Woz keep talking about technology as if he is relevant and influencing innovation?

 

2.  Why do people keep quoting Woz as if he is relevant and influencing innovation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65C816 

You should really learn to read.  He never counterfeit $2 bills.  Others thought he did, and he had an interesting chat with a Secret Service Agent (or FBI, forgot).

There was no reading involved, it was a video. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was some engadget interview, and I don't remember all of the details. It's been a while  since I saw it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallwheels 

The Microsoft Surface is the future of computing.

 

Oh how wrong you are. If anything it is a step back in time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 


If it was up to Woz, the vaunted Apple II would have been just another homebrew / hobbyist kit computer to impress his friends (instead of the finished & assembled computer that sold millions). Woz is beloved by geeks, but product vision was not his thing, something even Woz would not dispute. That said, let the Surface fans come out to gloat.

Geeks don't drive the industry anymore. They think they still do but they don't. Steve Jobs took them out of the picture and made them irrelevant. That's why the geeks here and on C|net can't deal with the success of Apple. What are the first words out of a geek's mouth when a new product is announced? Specs, specs, and more specs.

I like Woz. He is definitely his own person, and loves trying out different technology. One must remember however, he wanted to stick with the Apple ll platform, and wasn't really for the Mac. He is a geek, an engineer. But.....its one of those......what has he done for me lately kind of questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtm135 

That's like saying Vint Cerf shouldn't talk about IPv6 since it's so far removed from IPv4.

 

Like Vint, Woz is one of the grandfathers of our technology.  Without him, there would be no Apple.

 

...

No.  Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.  

Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmhisey 



Woz, from everything that I've ever seen or read, is the exact opposite of pompous. He's self-effacing and self-deprecating.
 

Ok. And?

My dog is also "self-effacing and self-deprecating."

But my dog didn't save Apple, for example. Or give us iPods. Or iPhones. Or iPads. Etc., etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtm135 

SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.

 

Where's his respect for a dead person who is not here to answer back or refute his dumb comment?

Steve Jobs would not have liked his comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

 

I'm not diminishing what Woz has accomplished in the past, but numbers 2 - 6 require zero talent or effort in my opinion. Anybody with money can accomplish those. Of course, he had the talent to acquire that money in the first place, but somebody just giving away money or donating money is not impressive in my view and pales in comparison to the actual work that he did when he was still involved in the tech business.

Exactly... they require no talent -- but a broader [and quite possibly, better] interest in mankind than just making money and persuing technology.

When Apple went public, AIR, Jobs sold few if any of his 1/3 of AAPL.  AIR, Woz sold more than 1/2 of his 1/3 of AAPL.  Woz bought some toys, certainly -- but he immediately took care of his family (who were upper middle class).  He didn't need to do that -- nor make any of his other humanitarian investments -- but he did.

A few of us figured that Woz "gave away" 1/2 his fortune while Jobs retained nearly 100% of his.  

The question is:  How much money do you need before you become a benefactor?

No one should attempt to minimize Jobs' contributions... nor should they, Woz'.

Abou Ben Adhem

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:— 
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtm135 

 

SO HAVE SOME GOD DAMN RESPECT.

 

I don't want to, though. My respect is saved for others, who, incidentally, aren't Steve Wozniak. Sorry. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 

Woz has some problems IMHO.

at least is not brainwashed to think that Apple products are the best

We have to remember that Woz was a savant of sorts and brilliant at what he did, but he was no visionary a la Steve Jobs or Johnny Ive. Woz seems like the consummate tinkerer. He demonstrates a passion for new gadgets, new technology, etc., but he's not the guy Apple went to for any design decisions outside of how to optimize a motherboard.

Seems like a genuinely nice guy but his comments should not be regarded as representing Apple's ethos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTR 

I find it ironic that Woz mentioned a couple of years ago that he would be open to any invitations from Apple if they were so inclined to try and employ him.

 

You may wish to stop singing the praises of Android, Mike Daisy, and Microsoft if you wish that to happen, Woz...

Woz is still an Apple employee. His ID number is 1.

The ID number of Steve was 0 before he left Apple - I don't know if he got that back when he returned.

If someone asks Woz what he thinks about this or that he will honestly answer what he really thinks and not what someone else thinks he should answer.

I appreciate that a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

 

No.  Without Steve Jobs, there would arguably be no Apple.  

 

Without Steve Wozniak, there would just be a different company very much like Apple, and founded by Steve Jobs and the second best chip guru in the Valley at the time.  

You're forgetting a few people who were responsible for Apple's success -- Mike Markkula,  Mike "Scottie" Scott, Rod Holt, Gene Carter, Wil Houde... 

At the time of the Apple I, there were lots of people (including Jobs and Woz) that were tinkering around building these new microcomputers.  Many were talented, prescient and quite creative "engineers"...

But none of them had the knowledge, experience and money to build a company.  That difference at Apple was Mike Markkula.  He provided the financing, guidance, business acumen and reputation to attract the talent necessary to build a company -- which allowed the 2 Steves to do their thing.

No one can say what wuld have happened if any of the major players hadn't joined together to form Apple.

Yeah, sure. Microsoft is Just Like Apple, with Ballmer in the part of Steve Jobs. I'm gonna barf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTR 

I find it ironic that Woz mentioned a couple of years ago that he would be open to any invitations from Apple if they were so inclined to try and employ him.

 

You may wish to stop singing the praises of Android, Mike Daisy, and Microsoft if you wish that to happen, Woz...

While I cringe a bit at some of Woz's awkward comments, I see no reason to trash the guy because he complimented a non-Apple product.

And by the way, he is technically still employed by Apple and receives a token paycheck believed to be around $120K a year... Not that he needs it, seeing as he's quite wealthy and owns quite a few Apple shares.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

 

I said he was a great guy.  I meant "accomplishments" not a laundry list of his personal attributes.  

 

Lots of us are nice people that donate money and help out our families.  No one should really get kudos for such things, it's a given that we all should do them.  

 

In terms of concrete accomplishments in the field of technology though you'd be hard pressed to find anything other than the remote which was a market failure in that it never really got to market in a useable or saleable form.  

Hmm, Bill and Melinda Gates seem to get quite a bit of kudos for their charitable activities, so has Mother Theresa. At a time when corporate and private greed are celebrated, I think it appropriate to acknowledge significant contributions back to society as an admirable accomplishment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalM 

Woz is still an Apple employee. His ID number is 1.

The ID number of Steve was 0 before he left Apple - I don't know if he got that back when he returned.

I don't believe that Jobs had employee #0.   There was a story that when it was decided that Woz would be employee #1 and Jobs would be employee #2 -- that Jobs was upset and wanted to be employee #0... But, I don't think that anything came of it.

You should realize, that at the time Apple Computer was formed -- the only product was the Apple I -- essentially a motherboard -- no case, keyboard, power supply, display, etc.   The Apple I was built [almost] entirely by Woz -- Jobs did not have the engineering or computer background.  What Jobs did provide was drive *, vision and sales.

* according to Woz' younger brother the drive came in a nagging sort of way...

Jobs attention to detain and sense of style came into flower in the design of the Apple ][ -- plastic injection-molded case ** with integrated kb, power supply, game paddles, monitor/TV adapter... and no fan!

** while most people think that plastic is cheap and metal cases are for macho "serious" machines -- just the opposite is true!   A metal case can be manufactured inexpensively -- with just a few bends and some welds.   A plastic injection-moded case required expensive tooling for the molds -- Something like the Apple ][ molds, likely cost $200,000 in 1977 dollars.   Most microcomputer companies were valued at much less than $200,000.

Edit: AIR, Job's [premature] vision of a self-contained, all-in-one computer led him to campaign against expansion slots in the Apple ][... and he lost the battle.  Good thing, or the Apple   ][ would have remained a 24-line, 40-column uppercase-only display.. with a tape cassette for I/O -- no floppies, VisiCalc, MicroSoft Soft Card, etc.  It would have died with the Commodore PET and the Trash-80.

Many years ago when I had a Powerbook, I was having issues with keeping a decent connection. I posted to a Powerbook mailing list and the Woz responded with the answer to my issue, saying that the Apple modem software was (at that time) known to have issues. Very nice of him to do that. I still have that message in my email.

This thread is unsurprisingly cringeworthy with all the attacks on Woz.

How dare he talk positively about another technology company that doesn't have the Apple logo? How rude of him to want to wait until he's had the chance to use a Surface tablet before passing judgement on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

Where's his respect for a dead person who is not here to answer back or refute his dumb comment?

 

Steve Jobs would not have liked his comment.

I think the intention of his comment was to say that he thought Microsoft's new designs are so much better than theirs in the past and he was "symbolically" attributing the improved designs to Steve Jobs' "spirit" influence.  Seems like a compliment to Steve in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

Other than dating Kathy Griffiths he hasn't done anything of note for at least 30 years, so he's pretty much open to any and all job offers.  

 

That's why he's in the news a lot.  He's just another minor celebrity who never turns down a free lunch or a speaking engagement and will allow himself to be interviewed for anything from a high school newspaper to the National news.  Sad really, and this latest pronouncement just makes him look like an old fool.  He's naive enough to not even notice when others are using him to their own ends also.  

 

Both Wozniak and Jobs started out working their asses off in that garage, Steve was still working right up to the day he died, whereas Wozniak hasn't done anything at all with the rest of his life.  It escapes me why he is idolised so much.   

I would argue that dating Kathy Griffin is about the lowest Woz has sunk in the last 30 years.  Not funny, not attractive, and never shuts up.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfisher 

Many years ago when I had a Powerbook, I was having issues with keeping a decent connection. I posted to a Powerbook mailing list and the Woz responded with the answer to my issue, saying that the Apple modem software was (at that time) known to have issues. Very nice of him to do that. I still have that message in my email.

The Woz could be reading this thread right now !    

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


Yep. He's apparently back to 'normal' -- a LOT spacey.

Oh, I don't think I'd call him that... Woz was always a jokester with a twinkle in his eye.  You should have seen Woz handle kids and "out-of-control" adults -- like John Draper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdkennedy 

I would say his comments are grossly premature considering there's no final product yet.

If you listen to his comments in full context, I think they were measured and reasonable... at least until the Steve Jobs line which made everyone cringe.

I think he just blurted that out without thinking about it. Perhaps a more appropriate comment would have been something along the lines of "It's great to see Microsoft working on what appears to be a very original product design. It seems promising but we'll have to wait until it's released before judging it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by drblank 

Wozniak is an idiot sometimes.  Wozniak's biggest claim to fame was the original Apple and that's about it.  Woz wasn't part of the Mac team that I know of.  Woz hasn't done anything successful since and I think he is trying to use the media to get attention and he says some of the STOOPIDIST things.  In order for Steve Jobs to be re-incarnated, he has to be reborn into another physical body and that person has to grow old enough to walk, talk, understand technology, etc.  Sometimes, Woz says things that just want to make one hit him over the head to knock some sense into him.  I personally think he should get 1,000 lashes with a wet noodle award.

Maybe Microsoft should hire Steve Wozniak.  Personally, that might PROVE he's an idiot if he takes the job.

I really don't think he's out begging for attention. But his history with Apple, combined with his willingness to talk to anyone about anything, make him a frequent target for "journalists" looking for a catchy story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eksodos 

This thread is unsurprisingly cringeworthy with all the attacks on Woz.

 

How dare he talk positively about another technology company that doesn't have the Apple logo? How rude of him to want to wait until he's had the chance to use a Surface tablet before passing judgement on it?

Because he talks positively about EVERYTHING.

His opinion can't be trusted because it isn't discriminating. No standards.  

And he had a hand in making THIS monstrosity:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/modbook

*rolleyes*

THANK GOD he no longer has any say at Apple. I'm sure he's a great guy or whatever, but when it comes to tech he's way past his sell-by date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmhisey 


A one-hit wonder? lol. You obviously have no idea what took place in the computer industry before you were born -- what 13 years ago?
Woz, from everything that I've ever seen or read, is the exact opposite of pompous. He's self-effacing and self-deprecating.
As compared to the pompous gasbags commenting here who are nothing but self-defecating...

listen, Sonny, i was word processing on the Wang back in those days. then DOS. heck, i'm even more of a geezer than Woz is. 

Woz' key work at Apple was over by the very early '80's. what did Woz accomplish after that - anywhere? the mid-80's PC breakthrough work was all under Jobs. 

besides penning his "self-effacing and self-deprecating" authobiography, iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It, that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum 

 

You're forgetting a few people who were responsible for Apple's success -- Mike Markkula,  Mike "Scottie" Scott, Rod Holt, Gene Carter, Wil Houde... 

 

 

At the time of the Apple I, there were lots of people (including Jobs and Woz) that were tinkering around building these new microcomputers.  Many were talented, prescient and quite creative "engineers"...

 

But none of them had the knowledge, experience and money to build a company.  That difference at Apple was Mike Markkula.  He provided the financing, guidance, business acumen and reputation to attract the talent necessary to build a company -- which allowed the 2 Steves to do their thing.

 

No one can say what wuld have happened if any of the major players hadn't joined together to form Apple.

Wasn't it Jobs who brought in Mike?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booga 

No one ever accused Wozniak of having good taste.

Judging by his waist line, I don't think he has a problem with taste. ;)

As near as I can tell, Wozniak has done nothing after he left Apple to suggest he wasn't just in the right place at the right time when the company started. I don't know why the press has such an interest in him in regards to technology.

I am sure he is a nice guy and wish him no ill will but he seems to be treated as some great authority on consumer electronics and frankly, he is not.

-kpluck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

 

There was no reading involved, it was a video. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was some engadget interview, and I don't remember all of the details. It's been a while  since I saw it.

And you are a fucking idiot if you believe anyone can walk around and spend counterfeit bills without the government closing down on them.

You are probably talking about:  http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/31/the-engadget-show-017-steve-wozniak-sony-ngp-playstation-ph/  at the 35:00 point.

Since you're obviously a moron, and I hate arguing with morons, here's what he did.

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/kkvz4/til_steve_wozniak_prints_his_own_money_and/

You can find the link to the higher quality printer in that article too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfiejr 

listen, Sonny, i was word processing on the Wang back in those days. then DOS. heck, i'm even more of a geezer than Woz is. 

 

Woz' key work at Apple was over by the very early '80's. what did Woz accomplish after that - anywhere? the mid-80's PC breakthrough work was all under Jobs. 

 

besides penning his "self-effacing and self-deprecating" authobiography, iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It, that is.

Reminds me of a Guy Kawasaki preso... Where he described this man with 2 computers -- he sat around with his Apple in one hand and his Wang in the other...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpluck 

 

Judging by his waist line, I don't think he has a problem with taste. ;)

 

As near as I can tell, Wozniak has done nothing after he left Apple to suggest he wasn't just in the right place at the right time when the company started. I don't know why the press has such an interest in him in regards to technology.

 

I am sure he is a nice guy and wish him no ill will but he seems to be treated as some great authority on consumer electronics and frankly, he is not.

 

-kpluck

Don't you think the insulting ad hominem attacks are going a bit far? I mean for a blowhard like Ballmer, I'm all for the insults. But I don't think Woz deserves this kind of vitriol...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65C816 

Because you are an idiot and have no frame of reference.  His 3 chip disk drive interface design was such an improvement on the disk interface cards which at that time required over 30 chips to function that people actually teach it in classes and use it to show how electronic designs can be *BEAUTIFUL* as well as functional.  He can design computers around you in circles, and by that, I don't mean buy off the shelf parts and assemble them.

Not to mention, the Apple ][ had ROM containing Integer BASIC, 6502 Assembler, HiRes graphics, Color LowRes graphics, serial I/O, sound... All these we're sophisticated hardware and software implementations.  These were Woz' areas of expertise... Not to demean Jobs, but he had no abilities in these areas.