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San Francisco to cease Mac purchases without EPEAT certification

post #1 of 192
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Officials in the city of San Francisco are moving to block the purchases of new Macs after Apple removed EPEAT certification from its laptops and desktops.

San Francisco Department of Environment officials who spoke with The Wall Street Journal said letters will be sent out over the next two weeks to the city's 50 agencies that Macs "no longer qualify" for purchase with city funds. Jon Walton, San Francisco's chief information officer, said city employees will still be able to buy Macs, but that doing so will require a "long" and "onerous" process that will make it "very problematic" to do so.

Tuesday's report portrayed the city's decision as "largely symbolic," as only between 500 and 700 of its municipal computers are Macs, representing 1 to 2 percent of its total usage.

Last week, it was revealed that Apple has asked the government-backed electronics standard setting group EPEAT to remove 39 desktops, laptops and monitors from its list of environmentally friendly devices. The move even removed legacy devices that already held EPEAT certification from the agency's list.

The Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool was the result of a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency grant awarded to the Zero Waste Alliance for an electronics assessment program.

MacBook Pro Environmental Impact
The MacBook Pro with Retina display environmental information no longer mentions the EPEAT standard
and was not submitted for certification. | Source: Apple


San Francisco may be just the first government agency to move away from Macs following Apple's decision. Because of a 2007 executive order, 95 percent of all federal agency purchases must be EPEAT-registered products, and many manufacturers strive to attain the group's "Gold" rating.

EPEAT certification requires that a product must be easily disassembled with common tools to have toxic components like batteries separated from recyclable materials. Apple's products have become increasingly difficult to take apart, as evidenced by iFixit giving the company's new Retina display MacBook Pro its lowest ever repairability score of 1 out of 10.

Apple's decision to remove EPEAT certification from its Mac lineup is curious, because the company helped to create the EPEAT standards in 2006. The company also regularly discloses environmental assessments of its products and supply chain partners, and even touts how "green" its products are at keynote presentations.

But the new Retina display MacBook Pro would not have been eligible for EPEAT certification because its battery is glued to the case, the organization's CEO, Robert Frisbee, told the Journal. An Apple staffer reportedly told EPEAT in June that the Mac maker was leaving the registry because of changes to its "design direction."
post #2 of 192
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But the new Retina display MacBook Pro would not have been eligible for EPEAT certification because its battery is glued to the case, the organization's CEO, Robert Frisbee, told the Journal. An Apple staffer reportedly told EPEAT in June that the Mac maker was leaving the registry because of changes to its "design direction."

It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.
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post #3 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Officials in the city of San Francisco are moving to block the purchases of new Macs after Apple removed EPEAT certification from its laptops and desktops.

In other news, Apple to move all business to Indiana.
post #4 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

Are you a recycling specialist? Apparently no, because glue does make recycling much more difficult.
post #5 of 192

If some Apple products, for the sake of advancement, are going to get recycled by methods that don’t fit the current EPEAT rules, then so be it. No avoiding this. Just so long as they still are recyclable, and Apple sees to it that they get recycled! Which Apple does do.

 

It IS a great thing, on some level, to keep using the same old construction techniques that support the most common recycling methods. But coming up with NEW construction techniques that have real value, and new recycling methods to deal with that, is simply necessary sooner or later.

 

It does seem like Apple should keep their legacy products on the list for now, though.

 

I also hope the chosen glue isn’t needlessly hazardous!

 

(I wonder if Apple is trying behind the scenes to get the rules updated to allow for newer construction methods?)

post #6 of 192
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


In other news, Apple to move all business to Indiana.

 

The real reason is that Apple only supports Thunderbolt and USB ports and has not adopted the new GLBT universal access ports.

post #7 of 192
Not surprising, this was bound to happen. It's very disappointing that Apple have chosen to go in this direction.
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post #8 of 192

Many of Apple's current products are EPEAT certified but Apple withdrew from certification across the board for uniformity. Of course a government is going treat those actually qualified products as if they magically became less environmentally friendly this week.

post #9 of 192

But what's the real deal? Is Apple's new "design direction" simply ignoring environmental concerns (producing dirty but cute iStuff), is the EPEAT certification somehow faulty (to which Apple objects), or is something else going on?

post #10 of 192

A bunch of really sick people live in San Francisco. Isn't that the same city that banned happy meals a while ago? Those people are batshit insane. And they've also considered banning pets? Is that an actual American city or is it some little communist town run by radical, authoritarian, dictator wannabes? It's like a prison for freaks.

 

As for San Fran banning Macs from being bought by city agencies, who cares? As the article said, Macs only make up a percent or two of their complete usage, so let 'em ban what they want. Apple doesn't need San Fran, and neither do I.

post #11 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


In other news, Apple to move all business to Indiana.

and GOV sales to China...

 

that way Apple can downgrade the brand in one press release.

post #12 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Are you a recycling specialist? Apparently no, because glue does make recycling much more difficult.

Much more difficult? Nonsense. I've taken apart plenty of electronics items where the batter is glued in. It takes an additional few seconds, although with the right tools, it might be even faster than removing screws. They make a simple device that's like a motorized paint scraper that makes this trivial.
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post #13 of 192

I have yet to figure out why Apple took the step to remove Macs that were already EPEAT certified.  Even if one current machine or perhaps future machines don't meet the standard, than deal with it, but just pulling out completely and withdrawing already certified machines doesn't seem to smell right.  Is this a case of Apple having a temper tantrum because EPEAT wouldn't change the standards to ensure their new Retina Mac would be certified?   Being as Apple is located in a region of the country where the religion of Green is perhaps the strongest and you pay lip service even if you don't really live the religion, you really have to question the decision making process here.  I understand Mr. Cook wants to 'double-down' on secrecy but unless Apple has a new form of leafy green brilliance under it's sleeve, this move might be very costly in terms of losing government contracts.  

post #14 of 192

Its not about whether it is possible to disassemble it, it is whether it is possible to disassemble it without it costing an arm and a leg. Everything is recyclable if money were not an object. So instead of spending a few $$ now to design it to be recyclable with simple tools (i,e, economically feasible), they make it cheaper up front and make it too expensive at the back end to recycle. Kind of like we pay for the cost of extracting and refining oil, but we don't pay the cost of the damage burning the oil actually does. If Apple is supposed to consider the entire life cycle, economically feasible recycling is supposed to be part of it.

post #15 of 192

Pretty bitchy San Fran.

 

Wonder why Apple didn't try to update the standards?  Manufacturing techniques evolve after all, not just at Apple.

post #16 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A bunch of really sick people live in San Francisco. Isn't that the same city that banned happy meals a while ago? Those people are batshit insane. And they've also considered banning pets? Is that an actual American city or is it some little communist town run by radical, authoritarian, dictator wannabes? It's like a prison for freaks.

 

As for San Fran banning Macs from being bought by city agencies, who cares? As the article said, Macs only make up a percent or two of their complete usage, so let 'em ban what they want. Apple doesn't need San Fran, and neither do I.

lol.gif Angry much?  If you don't live there, what does it matter to you?

 

Me, I think I'd like San Francisco a lot.

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post #17 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Many of Apple's current products are EPEAT certified but Apple withdrew from certification across the board for uniformity. Of course a government is going treat those actually qualified products as if they magically became less environmentally friendly this week.

Right?! So nothing has changed with Apple's products and yet now it' a big deal. To me that proves just how pointless EPEAT is when people blindly follow something without understanding it.

There was talk of only $45k being spent, which includes iDevices which never had EPEAT ratings. When you exclude iDevices rom the list and only consider their profits from Mac sales from that total you have a very small value.

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post #18 of 192
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A bunch of really sick people live in San Francisco. Isn't that the same city that banned happy meals a while ago? Those people are batshit insane. And they've also considered banning pets? Is that an actual American city or is it some little communist town run by radical, authoritarian, dictator wannabes? It's like a prison for freaks.

 

As for San Fran banning Macs from being bought by city agencies, who cares? As the article said, Macs only make up a percent or two of their complete usage, so let 'em ban what they want. Apple doesn't need San Fran, and neither do I.

 

 

If you live in the USA you need San Francisco.

post #19 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

Apple made the decision themselves to remove their own products from the approved list. They weren't thrown off. I'm very certain you don't think Apple management are the "idiots (who) make decisions for us".

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post #20 of 192

I work for the Federal Government, and as a rule the organization I work for (which will remain anonymous) can only buy 5% of its purchases as non-EPEAT compliant. Therefore, Apple has painted themselves into corner on government sales at the US Federal level. If either EPEAT or Apple cannot budge you will see a large backlash of data on this issue. I'm not saying either should change, but the plain fact is that Macs and other Apple mobile devices won't be looked to as a purchasable item for government and educational use.

 

This is perhaps the largest mistake Apple could have made, politically speaking, with regards to government and education.

post #21 of 192

Dudes this ruins everything!  I had it in my heart to work for SF city government, on a brand new Mac they provide! Now what???

 

On a more lighthearted note, I find it more than slightly ironic that the most rebel communistic city in California (not counting the Pacific Stock Exchange and the many financial organizations that are headquartered there, of course) is making such a fine point of adhering to the George W Bush executive order making 3PEAT the law of the land for "cities buying parts."

 

Glad I'm from *Southern* California, dudes.  I left my heart -- and my government Mac -- in San Francisco.

post #22 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A bunch of really sick people live in San Francisco. Isn't that the same city that banned happy meals a while ago? Those people are batshit insane. And they've also considered banning pets? Is that an actual American city or is it some little communist town run by radical, authoritarian, dictator wannabes? It's like a prison for freaks.

 

As for San Fran banning Macs from being bought by city agencies, who cares? As the article said, Macs only make up a percent or two of their complete usage, so let 'em ban what they want. Apple doesn't need San Fran, and neither do I.


i live in san francisco.  please enlighten me as to how i am sick?  or any of my friends for that matter? 

 

and [only a] nobody calls it 'san fran'.

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post #23 of 192
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

lol.gif Angry much?  If you don't live there, what does it matter to you?

 

Me, I think I'd like San Francisco a lot.

I don't live there thankfully, though I did pass through there briefly once. I was there for business purposes and didn't have the time to see much of the city, and I doubt that I missed out on much.

 

And San Francisco doesn't matter much to me obviously, I'm just commenting on this particular article, which has to with San Francisco and their banning of Macs.

post #24 of 192

apple losing all gov't clients is likely a good thing. you can't be "cool" and be a part of big brother at the same time. 

 

this is the best choice for apple to remain in the public eye as the quintessential hipster brand.

post #25 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


i live in san francisco.  please enlighten me as to how i am sick?  or any of my friends for that matter? 

 

and [only a] nobody calls it 'san fran'.

I don't know about you personally, I'm referring to your politicians, and when I mean sick, I am referring to mental issues.

post #26 of 192

What is this new port you speak of?  I couldn't find any information about it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

 

The real reason is that Apple only supports Thunderbolt and USB ports and has not adopted the new GLBT universal access ports.

post #27 of 192

f it.

post #28 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by danv2 View Post

I work for the Federal Government, and as a rule the organization I work for (which will remain anonymous) can only buy 5% of its purchases as non-EPEAT compliant. Therefore, Apple has painted themselves into corner on government sales at the US Federal level. If either EPEAT or Apple cannot budge you will see a large backlash of data on this issue. I'm not saying either should change, but the plain fact is that Macs and other Apple mobile devices won't be looked to as a purchasable item for government and educational use.

This is perhaps the largest mistake Apple could have made, politically speaking, with regards to government and education.

I don't think Apple has ever had anywhere near 5% of government PC sales so I think they are safe on that front.

iPhones and iPads are not required to be EPEAT certified, from what I understand so they are safe on that front.

It's better that Apple push the envelop in designing their PCs to increase overall sales and profit, not to guarantee a couple extra potential sales in government, so they are safe on that front.

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post #29 of 192
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Originally Posted by gbdoc View Post

But what's the real deal? 1. Is Apple's new "design direction" simply ignoring environmental concerns (producing dirty but cute iStuff), 2. is the EPEAT certification somehow faulty (to which Apple objects), or 3. is something else going on?

 

 

I'll pick 2. for $2000, Alex!

 

If Apple helped to produce the standards then I think that Apple knows the limits of that standard and has moved forward faster than the standards rules. I couldn't say for sure and something tells me that it might be hard to investigate because the glues and processes that Apple uses may be ahead of the curve and not fully tested in the standards setting labs.

 

I just can't see Apple saying to hell with the environment.

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post #30 of 192
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Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

What is this new port you speak of?  I couldn't find any information about it.

 

In case you missed it, it was a joke. I found it funny.

post #31 of 192

in an unrelated story, the City of San Francisco is deploying iPads to all of it's city officials.
 

post #32 of 192
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Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

If you live in the USA you need San Francisco.

Uh, for what?
post #33 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

Government bureaucracies are staffed by idiots? Who'da thunk it?

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post #34 of 192
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't think Apple has ever had anywhere near 5% of government PC sales so I think they are safe on that front.
iPhones and iPads are not required to be EPEAT certified, from what I understand so they are safe on that front.
It's better that Apple push the envelop in designing their PCs to increase overall sales and profit, not to guarantee a couple extra potential sales in government, so they are safe on that front.

They are 40% of the purchases and systems installed at the government organization I work for. This is a dangerous thing as we have become pretty reliant on them. I'm not kidding or joking.

post #35 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbdoc View Post

But what's the real deal? Is Apple's new "design direction" simply ignoring environmental concerns (producing dirty but cute iStuff), is the EPEAT certification somehow faulty (to which Apple objects), or is something else going on?

 

Apple has an extremely good environment record and has a sophisticated recycling strategy for its products.  It was involved in drafting the EPEAT standard years ago, but manufacturing has evolved since then and the criterion of easy disassembly by end users no longer makes sense.  Presumably Apple has removed all its products from certification in order to bring the issue to a head, since its new products are no longer easy to disassemble by end users and hence, in this respect alone, no longer qualify for EPEAT certification.

post #36 of 192

And what really pissed me off about San Francisco, is that they're supposed to be known as some progressive and hip city, and I was traveling through a bunch of US states a while ago, and I am a weed connoisseur, and can you believe that out of all of the states which I visited, which were many, just about the only place where I didn't manage to buy any weed was in San Francisco? What a joke. Every other state was easy. Maybe it was just extremely bad luck, but that didn't help San Francisco's image much in my opinion.

post #37 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


Are you a recycling specialist? Apparently no, because glue does make recycling much more difficult.

How so?

post #38 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

The glue isn't the problem, it's the battery. Not being able to easily remove it is a cause for concern for recycling purposes.
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post #39 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post

I have yet to figure out why Apple took the step to remove Macs that were already EPEAT certified.  Even if one current machine or perhaps future machines don't meet the standard, than deal with it, but just pulling out completely and withdrawing already certified machines doesn't seem to smell right.  Is this a case of Apple having a temper tantrum because EPEAT wouldn't change the standards to ensure their new Retina Mac would be certified?   Being as Apple is located in a region of the country where the religion of Green is perhaps the strongest and you pay lip service even if you don't really live the religion, you really have to question the decision making process here.  I understand Mr. Cook wants to 'double-down' on secrecy but unless Apple has a new form of leafy green brilliance under it's sleeve, this move might be very costly in terms of losing government contracts.  

Apple have $74B parked overseas showed the US market is no big deal.

post #40 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

Not surprising, this was bound to happen. It's very disappointing that Apple have chosen to go in this direction.

LMAO are you new?

You think Tim Cook *doesn't* have a plan? Do you think this comes as a surprise to him?

This is Apple. They've already seen several steps ahead and have planned accordingly. Save your disappointment for the rest of the industry.
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