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San Francisco to cease Mac purchases without EPEAT certification - Page 4

post #121 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


Are you a recycling specialist? Apparently no, because glue does make recycling much more difficult.

 

For any electronic item to be recycled it has to go to a place designed for that. Gluing the battery to the case is a non issue.

post #122 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

The really sad thing here is that this EPEAT agency is running the show. They are giving the "green initiative" a bad name by slowing down the process and forcing manufacturing based on an arbitrary standard of "recyclable." The "glue construction" process does make upgrades harder -- but a quick bath in a solution should allow everything to be extracted and that's quicker than a hundred screws isn't it?

I've read a lot of comments about "those damn environmentalists" as if there were one monolithic hippy controlling things -- the environment is EVERYONE's concern -- we don't want mercury poisoning our food supply or mutated children or poisoned air do we?

It isn't an either/or position -- something will need to be resolved so that Apple isn't "automatically" kicked out of the process because they don't fit the mold.

Well said. I couldn't agree more. Perhaps Apple could help the recycling industry with some of those Apple brains.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #123 of 192
Is this what they mean by "Liberal Job Killers"?
Keep the government environmental regulator jobs and kill the private sector manufacturing jobs?
post #124 of 192

This is a giant mistake by Apple, and possibly the beginning of a public relations disaster.

post #125 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

 

Ask iFixit. They've been saying for a while now that glued together products are incredibly difficult to recycle.  But hey, Apple can make their laptops 1mm thinner, so who cares about the environment eh?

post #126 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Unless your agency wants to take a symbolic stand against Apple then there are plenty of currently sold Macs that have passed EPEAT certification even if they are not currently listed.
As I stated in the first thread on this issue, I think Apple is moving to a new design that is more iDevice-like and therefore will continue to make further EPEAT certifications impossible. Therefore they being proactive about retaining the control here.
How many is 40%? How much profit is that really for Apple compared to the retail priced for the millions of consumers that might not buy a Mac because a competitor is making a better system that they can't compete with while trying to maintain EPEAT ratings across their entire Mac line? Let's not forget that other vendors have a vast number of models compared to a very small number of SKUs from Apple
If anyone is negatively affected here it's the users that rely on Macs in an agency that doesn't want to admit how outmoded EPEAT is or the hypocrisy that they don't require it for other devices. I'm guessing that eventually the desire for Macs will win out before Apple's desire for a few government sales.

If EPEAT is outmoded, or basically won't listen to Apple's stance on the matter, Apple needs more of an explanation to the public. The educational circles that were the backbone of Apple sales in the early 2000s are owed some sort of explanation b/c of the money spent on them in the past and the rug pulled out from under their feet. In addition, the Federal entity I work for has already contacted Apple and is in talks with them about this topic. It turns out Apple had no clue that we were "big customers" because we bought our machines through a third party - that was not at all affiliated with Apple.

 

The way it works: Just because Apple does not see the sales directly from the Government to their door does not mean those entities do not purchase quantifiably LARGE amounts of Apple products. There are reasons fiscally speaking to not buy directly.

 

The negative impact will be felt, and as long as zero explanation is given we're going to see more issues arise. Entire swaths of purchases are being reviewed. I agree that EPEAT might be out of date, but I think walking away is the wrong thing to do. Coming to the table, renegotiating with everyone involved, and also talking this out with big entities is probably a good idea. If Universities, Federal agencies, and other groups were let known about this I think they would have been vocal enough to tell EPEAT to update their requirements for this generation of Post-PC era products.

 

To do anything else would literally hamstring EPEAT and make it a useless entity; one that Apple helped build. I doubt they want that moniker. "Co-founder of defunct, useless, and incompetent environmental regulators." That's a great title.

post #127 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

I know what you're saying. Even though I'm bashing San Francisco here, the politicians in my city aren't much better. In my city, the mini-Stalin of a mayor is banning soda! Somebody needs to remind these people that this is the USA and not North Korea.

 

 

Yes, but only ten percent of people vote. The people get what they deserve.

post #128 of 192
@Tallest Skil: Does Apple owe anything to San Francisco?

If not for the western terminus of the railroad, there would have been no Stanford. No Stanford, no electronic engineering for Silicon Valley, no writing students like Ken Kesey to spread the LSD around. No Apple.

If you had read John Markoff's What the Dormouse Said, you would not make such a statement. Anyone wanting to understand the origin of Apple and the personal computer HAS to read that book.
Edited by Flaneur - 7/10/12 at 1:26pm
post #129 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

You cant just heat up the glue to unstick it since there is  now a battery in the way.

You're right, that's dangerous, but I don't think you saw my comment. I think you could heat from behind the metal, not the battery side of the bond.

The thing about not complying with EPEAT standards is the disassembly with common tools part. I don't think a heat gun is a common tool at least not in the sense of a screwdriver or wire cutters.

 

Gluing the battery does make sense from an assembly perspective, we just need to wait and see what Apple's plans are with regard to recycling the new MBP. It would be inconsistent for them to disregard the recyclability of the product since all other aspects of their enterprise seems to focus quite deliberately on environmental responsibility such as the case with their green initiatives in their data center construction.

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post #130 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

If not for the western terminus of the railroad, there would have been no Stanford. No Stanford, no electronic engineering for Silicon Valley, no writing students like Ken Kesey to spread the LSD around. No Apple.
If you had read John Markoff's What the Dormouse Said, you would not make such a statement. Anyone wanting to understand the origin of Apple and the personal computer HAS to read that book.

Guess San Francisco owes a ton to the Spanish Empire, who in turn owes a lot to the Roman Empire.

You can only take the butterfly effect back so far before it stops mattering and people stop caring.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #131 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The thing about not complying with EPEAT standards is the disassembly with common tools part. I don't think a heat gun is a common tool at least not in the sense of a screwdriver or wire cutters.

Gluing the battery does make sense from an assembly perspective, we just need to wait and see what Apple's plans are with regard to recycling the new MBP. It would be inconsistent for them to disregard the recyclability of the product since all other aspects of their enterprise seems to focus quite deliberately on environmental responsibility such as the case with their green initiatives in their data center construction.

There you go trying to be reasonable again.

I wonder if there is another reason or two for gluing the battery, like heat transfer, or reliability (a screwed and bracketed battery can work loose in a portable, for example)?
post #132 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

For those that complain that Apple is going backward with the recycle-ability of their computers are missing the point. The problem isn't Apple or their products, it's the EPEAT certification that has not kept up with advances and changes in computer product manufacturing. I can just see the conversations Apple had with EPEAT people. Apple, "So we've made our products better with less or no toxic chemicals and they are fully recyclable and we'd like you to update the certification protocol to address this." EPEAT staff, "But Apple, none of the other manufacturers are able to produce their computers in the same way and they would all become out of spec if we made the change - so we're not going to change until the majority of other computer manufacturers copy your production methods."
Apple's response, "Go screw yourselves. We'll create our own program that makes your antiquated system look like exactly what it is - worthless."
I would make bets that I'm not far off from how things played out.

 

Probably close to the truth.


Part of government standards like these is also ensuring competitiveness.  If only Apple were able to meet stringent standards, they would in effect become a sole source supplier.  Try explaining that to taxpayers.

 

I don't get the slamming of San Francisco.  It's standard for many governments at municipal and state level to follow federal standards.  Why would anybody expect San Fran to suddenly re-write the book for Apple?  Would all of you feel the same way if the city council re-wrote their buying guide to qualify a non-compliant car manufacturer?

post #133 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Guess San Francisco owes a ton to the Spanish Empire, who in turn owes a lot to the Roman Empire.
You can only take the butterfly effect back so far before it stops mattering and people stop caring.

Bull. We are talking about two or three steps, and you know it, or you should know it.

History is an ecosystem. Whether YOU care or not is beside the point.
post #134 of 192

The non-upgradeability of the RMBP has just about tipped me away from buying an Apple replacement for my 2007 MBP.  I already have an iPad, and I hate it...it feels like an iJail and not a walled garden.  Figuring out how to move files around from program to program is excruciatingly frustrating.  If you don't want to do things Apple's way on the device, well...actually you have to do it Apple's way.  If iOS is the future of computing, I want no part of it.  I have watched NeXT grow in my university days...it was a beautiful operating system, designed right from the ground up.  When it became OS X I was quite happy.  I love its elegance, from how it integrates pdf throughout the system, to how its security features are practical but not intrusive.  Using an iPad has been a rude awakening.  The simple fact that I cannot see my own root filesystem is irksome beyond belief.  

 

There seems to be a philosophy growing at Apple that takes control away from the user.  Freedom to upgrade in the case of most Apple devices, and now of late even in their latest laptop.  Freedom to tinker and explore in the case of iOS.  Yes Apple devices are pleasant to use.  They are simple, they are pretty.  But I am not willing to give up my freedoms for the sake of a few mm, a few pounds, or a bit of increased security.  

 

I am most likely going to make my next computer a unix laptop of some kind.  I know it will be clunky and unpolished.  I know I will have to mess around in the command line.  I know most users wouldn't really like such a machine.  It won't be unibody.  It will be plastic.  It won't have much of the software that I have grown accustomed to.  But at least I won't be subject to the whims of Apple.  

post #135 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't live there thankfully, though I did pass through there briefly once. I was there for business purposes and didn't have the time to see much of the city, and I doubt that I missed out on much.

 

And San Francisco doesn't matter much to me obviously, I'm just commenting on this particular article, which has to with San Francisco and their banning of Macs.

 I am not sure that school trips count as business. Sorry crayon boy.

post #136 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Ask iFixit. They've been saying for a while now that glued together products are incredibly difficult to recycle.  But hey, Apple can make their laptops 1mm thinner, so who cares about the environment eh?

That's not what they say. iFixit does not address recyclability - they address repairability. The difference is that in recycling, it doesn't matter if you ruin something when you remove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The thing about not complying with EPEAT standards is the disassembly with common tools part. I don't think a heat gun is a common tool at least not in the sense of a screwdriver or wire cutters.

Which is just one example of why EPEAT's standards are silly. The average homeowner can't recycle their computer, anyway. They don't have the equipment or the knowhow. The people who CAN recycle the computer can easily manage a glue gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post


If they were to look at in an up/down yes/no black/white manner, then they might come to your conclusion.

But likely, they pay attention to how quickly/easily/economically it can be recycled.

Kind of like redeveloping land - toxic waste dumps can most certainly be reused and redeveloped, but compared to clean sites, it is not quite the same. 

Really? OK, let's have a race. You can have a computer case with the battery screwed in with 3 or 4 screws. I'll have a glued battery with a powered paint scraper. I can remove the battery in under 2 seconds. How long is it going to take you to removed 3 or 4 screws and put them in the appropriate bins for recycling?
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post #137 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Even more would say it's insane that someone else thinks they can tell me what I can eat and in what quantities.

 Is that any more or less insane than criticising bodies who were convinced by Apple et al that they should only purchase EPEAT registered products in the first place 

post #138 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Really? OK, let's have a race. You can have a computer case with the battery screwed in with 3 or 4 screws. I'll have a glued battery with a powered paint scraper. I can remove the battery in under 2 seconds. How long is it going to take you to removed 3 or 4 screws and put them in the appropriate bins for recycling?

 

Go ahead with your heated paint scraper.  I'll bet you wouldn't like to get a job scraping such batteries off with a heated blade for a few years.  See how you like placing a heated object near a lithium cells filled with lots of fun toxic volatile chemicals day in and day out.  Take a nice deep breath.  Mmmmmm...cancer.

post #139 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Bull. We are talking about two or three steps, and you know it, or you should know it.

And Steve could have bought a muscle car instead of a Volkswagen van or just hit his brakes too late one time and boom, no Apple.

The butterfly effect is so fickle as to be meaningless. Since all instances of every event do exist and occur, you can't idolize the ones you remember from your timeline.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #140 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It's really sad how we let idiots make decisions for us. Glue does not make the laptop any less recyclable - and Apple leads the industry (by far) in recyclability of its computers.

It's not the glue that is the issue so much as the use of torque screws not regular Philips etc ones.

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(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #141 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

It's not the glue that is the issue so much as the use of torque screws not regular Philips etc ones.

You're joking, right? You can get penta- and hexalobe screwdrivers nearly anywhere.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #142 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Bull. We are talking about two or three steps, and you know it, or you should know it.
And Steve could have bought a muscle car instead of a Volkswagen van or just hit his brakes too late one time and boom, no Apple.
The butterfly effect is so fickle as to be meaningless. Since all instances of every event do exist and occur, you can't idolize the ones you remember from your timeline.

Read the book. Nobody (in Palo Alto) who did acid had a muscle car. Better yet, drop some acid. You will no longer diminish complex cultural causation with a facile term like "the butterfly effect." You will see lots of patterns. You will lose your ego for a while as it's sent out for a washing. But that will be ok. Everything will suddenly make sense. It will stay with you for life, as it did for Jobs.

Palo Alto could have been like Houston if it were not for the Beats.
post #143 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Read the book. Nobody (in Palo Alto) who did acid had a muscle car. Better yet, drop some acid. You will no longer diminish complex cultural causation with a facile term like "the butterfly effect." You will see lots of patterns. You will lose your ego for a while as it's sent out for a washing. But that will be ok. Everything will suddenly make sense. It will stay with you for life, as it did for Jobs.
Palo Alto could have been like Houston if it were not for the Beats.

Now you've devolved into pure nonsense.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #144 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbdoc View Post

But what's the real deal? Is Apple's new "design direction" simply ignoring environmental concerns (producing dirty but cute iStuff), is the EPEAT certification somehow faulty (to which Apple objects), or is something else going on?

 

My guess is that they want to force changes in the standard. Note that EPEAT rates the ability for regular waste processors to recycle equipment. It says nothing about a manufacturer's own recycling program. An EPEAT-certified computer that gets tossed in the trash is no better for the environment than a non-EPEAT-certified Mac that gets returned to Apple for recycling at one of its processors.

post #145 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

 

I am most likely going to make my next computer a unix laptop of some kind.  I know it will be clunky and unpolished.  I know I will have to mess around in the command line.  I know most users wouldn't really like such a machine.  It won't be unibody.  It will be plastic.  It won't have much of the software that I have grown accustomed to.  But at least I won't be subject to the whims of Apple.  

 

You are going to be part of a niche, however. It's your prerogative, but be aware of the risks. Microsoft is heading in the same direction. Most users want PCs to be appliances, the way cars have been for the past 20 years or so. People generally don't "tweak" their dishwashers or TVs. They plug them in and use them. That's where both Apple and Microsoft see things heading in the "post-PC" world.

post #146 of 192
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Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


For the chase scene in Bullitt, duh!

The chase in The Rock wasn't half bad either.
post #147 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Now you've devolved into pure nonsense.

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is a gibbering idiot.
post #148 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

Tim Cook is a bean counter MBA type.  The company is making money hand over fist, but what does he do?  He glues in the batteries on a $2500+ laptop to save a bit on machining.

Actually it's to save size, weight and yes - even waste. Overall the new MacBook Pro uses less material which means less overall waste at the end of it's lifetime. Apple sells MILLIONS of these things, and every ounce (or fraction of an ounce) is a significant difference.

EPEAT was started with the goal to foster consumer recycling.

It was a nobel ideal, but it flopped. People can't be bothered. So Apple has been and will no doubt continue to be the most aggressively recycled manufacturer because they collect up their old stuff and recycle it professionally. Where something like a bit of glue won't be a problem.

EPEAT needs to be updated. It's not really relevant to todays market.

And I love how no one seems to mention that EPEAT is a private company, not affiliated with the government or any regulatory agency in any way, and manufacturers have to pay to be listed on it. If I were Apple I would be protesting any government awards they didn't get because of EPEAT exclusions and demand to know the basis for such exclusion over and above some blind adherence to a now irrelevant standard (that they did help create initially)
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He institutes a proprietary solid state drive system so users can't upgrade their SSD after purchase.

Really? Someone better tell OWC/macsales.com that they are doing the impossible!
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He forces users to max out their memory by making it non-upgradeable.

Er, the default 8 GB is all the vast majority of PC laptop will even accept - let alone be upgradeable to. And they very plainly and very up front mention it on the store. And it's a pretty reasonable fee to upgrade to the maximum amount too.
Quote:
I don't buy the argument that what's OK for iPads and iPhones is OK for a pro-level $2500+ laptop.

Then buy their other pro level laptop that is still upgradeable. Personally I prefer the thinner and lighter weight one and don't find it that big a deal to just order the thing maxed out. But then again I'm not purposly agitating about a product I never intend to buy either....
Quote:
An elite laptop is a full computer.  It is built with a different philosophy and for a different purpose.  If I choose to spend my money on an elite laptop, I expect the freedom to fix and upgrade my machine.  I don't expect a souped up iPad with a keyboard and a nice screen.

Sigh - other than RAM and the hard drive, what exactly do you "upgrade" on a laptop anyway? What have you EVER upgraded on a laptop? Maybe a battery, or on the really clunky PC laptops where size apparently does not matter they have media bays where you can swap out a DVD drive for a second battery or hard drive...

Still, it's not like you are changing out the CPU, watercooling/overclocking or tweaking out the non-existent video cards.

These are PORTABLE COMPUTERS and one of the compromises of them is things are integrated and there is less choice. The whole non-removeable battery turned out to be, unsurprisingly, a complete non-issue. This whole "unupgradeable" crap with the Retina MBP will turn out to be the exact same non-issue because, at the end of the day, it is a complete non issue. Tempest in a teapot. Something for those who were never going to buy the machine anyway to fuss and fume over.

Pathetic. Not quite as pathetic as me typing out this response :P congratulations....
post #149 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

There seems to be a philosophy growing at Apple that takes control away from the user.

Then go buy from someone else. All the "restrictions" you are chaffing against foster stability and a stellar user experience and are the reasons Apple is my preferred vendor. So stop bitching that they aren't like every other miserable experience computer vendor and just go buy from any other vendor and we promise we won't miss your whining and complaining about how Apple isn't like everyone else. Everyone wins!
Edited by DocNo42 - 7/10/12 at 3:07pm
post #150 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The thing about not complying with EPEAT standards is the disassembly with common tools part. I don't think a heat gun is a common tool at least not in the sense of a screwdriver or wire cutters.

I would think that the part that would trip up Apple on EPEAT is the pentalobe torx, that's a special tool you have to order. A heat gun you can get at any hardware store.
post #151 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

 

You are going to be part of a niche, however. It's your prerogative, but be aware of the risks. Microsoft is heading in the same direction. Most users want PCs to be appliances, the way cars have been for the past 20 years or so. People generally don't "tweak" their dishwashers or TVs. They plug them in and use them. That's where both Apple and Microsoft see things heading in the "post-PC" world.

Yes, I suppose I will be a niche.  But I think Apple should be careful not to anger users like me.  I am a teacher.  I have brought my MBP to work every day, because I hate working on the locked up MS crap workstations that are provided.  That MBP has a nice Apple icon that faces the class every day.  It is quite an advertisement.  I teach the elite kids, the ones who will go on to be engineers and such.  Since I am something of a role model, my choices matter to quite a few students.  I have over the last few years been quite positive about OSX.  I have discussed the differing engineering philosophies between MS and OSX.  I have discussed how OSX is unix based and how unix was from the beginning an operating system that was designed to run multi-user mainframes, and had to e secure and robust.  I think I have likely influenced quite a few purchasing decisions.  I am one of those users who has played an outsize role in the ascendency of Apple over the past few years. If I choose to buy and use a proper unix laptop, I suspect I will influence some important students.  

 

You say that most people don't tweak their dishwashers or TV's.  That is true.  However, the freedom that proper computers have provided have given all everyday users freedoms and services that they have grown accustomed to.  If computers had been designed early on as locked down appliances, I doubt the world wide web would have come into existence.  The large network players, such as, say AOL or Compuserve would have done everything in their power to prevent such a powerful competing network.  They would likely have done deals with the companies controlling the locked down computing machines to lock out or cripple competing technologies.  You can see such tendencies in closed platforms such as the PS3, where Sony does a great deal to push you into their Playstation Network, or into Netflix, or their other partners.  The web browser is an afterthought.

 

Also, free computing and free networking vis the Internet brought filesharing, which put pressure on the media conglomerates to loosen their grip on content distribution.  iTunes was only grudgingly accepted after filesharing had already become rampant.  Now we take digital distribution for granted, but if computers had been as locked down as, say the PS3 or even the iPad, I doubt these things would have come into existence in the form they appear in today.

 

I suppose my main point is this:  I do not want to have my freedom to run the software of my choice beholden  to the whim of any particular company.  One can argue that Apple has been fairly benign in its control of iOS but the fact that it does have such control causes me concern for the future of computing freedom.  For that reason, I will make decisions to consume in such as way as to go against the "post PC era".  That will include running a clunky unix laptop.

post #152 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post



Is it fair to say Apple Knows Best? That's probably reaching, but if you want a poster-child for that idiom, Apple usually comes closest.

 

 

I'm not certain it is fair to say that Apple knows best.  But Apple certainly knows how to turn a buck, and knows how to influence public opinion. 

 

My guess is that their EPEAT decision will not result in significantly diminished profitability.

post #153 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post

 

This is a hint of "Apple 3.0" -- The slow, arrogant, downfall of Apple, Inc. 

 

 

Maybe, but betting against Apple is rarely a wise move.

post #154 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

 

If Canada wasn't so damn polite and gave all the territory they won off the USA back, everything North of the Mississippi would be Canada right now.  

 

 

I'm pretty sure that everything North of the Mississippi IS Canada.  Doesn't the Mississippi start in Minnesota?

post #155 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


are you a medical doctor?  pshychologist?  psychiatrist?  can you please post your credentials?  have you examined our politicians?  can you post a link to your report?

 

 

He's a Doctor of Science.  Respect!

post #156 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post


I'm pretty sure that everything North of the Mississippi IS Canada.  Doesn't the Mississippi start in Minnesota?

Pretty much.

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post #157 of 192

This is a genuine question - Do standards such as EPEAT, etc (actually, any "green" program) take into account things like product lifespan, etc? And cost of manufacturing? Or just "on a single day comparison, X vs Y?

 

As an example:

 

PC X life expectancy of 3 years

 

Mac life expectancy of 4 years.

 

12 years = 3 Macs vs 4 PCs.

 

Not saying any of this is realistic number wise, but I mean is this something that is looked at.

 

Another example. "Waterless" toilets. We have them at work. ALWAYS have the blue chemical leaking, service guys coming out (in their big trucks), etc. Is this REALLY a net improvement? What goes into making and recycling Pirus batteries. Or Chevy Volt ones.

 

Not saying we shouldn't advance, but is this "cost" accounted for?

post #158 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


I would think that the part that would trip up Apple on EPEAT is the pentalobe torx, that's a special tool you have to order. A heat gun you can get at any hardware store.

 The following has already been mentioned never-the-less it is worth repeating- heating batteries with a heat gun is not a good idea.

 

On a wider point, whilst the Apple recycling scheme will overcome many of the perceived problems not all Macs will be returned to Apple.

post #159 of 192

History shows that history is perhaps the most useless subject since we are doomed to repeat it, all the knowledge does is let you see the freight train at the end of the tunnel, not like you can do anything about it.

 

But lets use history to "forecast":

   - Apple has been focusing on its target market which is becoming more and more: upper class teenagers. As the global economy continues to degenerate, the "professional" class which are the buyers of their pro machines will shrink since they will have less people able to pay them for service. In five years or so, they will only have iOS devices, in ten years they will become like Nokia, the Android market will have beaten them, and they will release their first Android Device. 

   - A more accurate prediction is as time approaches infinity, everything disintegrates, proving that all is meaningless.

 

Considering how most people just toss their old computers into the trash bin, EPEAT is meaningless, people are too selfish and lazy to recycle. The only surprise is I thought their current market was "Prosumers" who need to feel "special" when they want to show off to people that they are "writing" in the Starbucks. The lack of EPEAT must be a blow to their superiority complex.

post #160 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

 I already have an iPad, and I hate it...it feels like an iJail and not a walled garden.  Figuring out how to move files around from program to program is excruciatingly frustrating.  If you don't want to do things Apple's way on the device, well...actually you have to do it Apple's way. 

 

 

 

I feel the same way about iOS.  I loved my 3GS for about a day and a half.  Then I got totally frustrated when I was repeatedly told by the Apple help line that what I wanted simply was impossible.

 

I really hate the launcher.  There is no choice whatsoever except "snap to grid".  So I tried to find an alternate launcher.  Yeah, right.  Apple didn't allow any such thing to be available, and short of Jailbreaking, there  was no other place to even  search for software.  

 

That stuff blew my mind,  I thought I was getting a pocket computer, and yet there were artificial limitations baked in from the ground up.  I was coming from the PalmOS, which was pretty much exactly the opposite in attitude.  Anybody could do anything-they were encouraged to advance the platform, and not handcuffed.

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