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Adobe acknowledges InDesign crashes with Apple's 2012 MacBooks

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
Users running Apple's latest MacBooks featuring Intel Ivy Bridge processors are experiencing system crashes with Adobe's popular InDesign software.

The issue has been documented by InDesign users on Adobe's official website where a forum thread has been growing since mid-June. The problem appears to be limited to users who are running just-released MacBook Pros or MacBook Airs featuring Intel's Ivy Bridge processors and OS X 10.7.4.

Adobe technical support employee Scott Worthington confirmed in the thread that the issue is related to a change made by Apple in OS X 10.7.4 The latest MacBook models, including the new MacBook Pro with Retina display, ship with OS X 10.7.4 preinstalled, making it difficult to "roll back" the operating system to a previous version.

"At this time it appears the update is removing an API we use to control our use of system icons," Worthington wrote. "At present the solution appears to be to rollback the update for the software to continue to function as expected."

Worthington added in a subsequent post that he's unsure if the problem will persist when Apple releases OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion later this month. He did not attempt to explain why the issue appears to be isolated to new 2012 MacBook models with Ivy Bridge processors.

"We're taking this issue very seriously," he said. "I wish we had more to share at this time but I'll be sure to share what comes down the line from the engineers relating to solutions or any workarounds they can find."

Crash


User "arminvit," who started the thread on June 15, found that they were able to address the problem by restoring their 2012 MacBook to factory settings and not installing the "MacBook Pro (Mid 2012) Software Update" available from Apple that includes OS X 10.7.4.

When running the latest version of OS X on their 2012 MacBook Pro, that user found that InDesign would crash when trying to delete a page that has content, and also when packaging a file. Users in the thread said the issue occurs with both Creative Suite 5 and Creative Suite 6.

When the crash occurs, InDesign attempts to post a warning box. However, the box is displayed blank except for the text "Warning," and InDesign promptly crashes.
post #2 of 58
That alert box pretty much sums up Adobe's effort into making Mac software.

Originally Posted by helia

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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #3 of 58
post #4 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
...Worthington added in a subsequent post that he's unsure if the problem will persist when Apple releases OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion later this month. 
...."We're taking this issue very seriously," he said. "I wish we had more to share at this time but I'll be sure to share what comes down the line from the engineers relating to solutions or any workarounds they can find."

 

In the main thread about this in the Adobe forums, it has already been confirmed that the bug is present in the 10.8 beta. I am guessing he said that hoping to buy some time.

 

Wish they had more to share?? B.S. How about sharing if you have an idea on how to fix the problem and how long it is expected to take? How about sharing if you have talked to Apple and what they said about the problem. How about letting someone with real information talk to the press instead of someone from the P.R. department that knows almost nothing about the problem?

 

UPDATE: I will also add that Adobe hasn't updated their "known issues" page with this problem 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not laying this all at Adobe's feet. How a release of OS X got out into the wild with such an easy to identify problem in a major piece of software speaks to exactly how much thought and care Apple is putting into its testing procedures which in turns says a lot about how much Apple cares about its professional users. Of course, I guess that memo was sent long ago.

 

-kpluck


Edited by kpluck - 7/11/12 at 11:19am

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post #5 of 58

I'm sure the InDesign 6.5 "upgrade", no doubt releasing before people have even figured out there is a version 6, will solve one or two problems, while introducing exciting new tweaks to the tool bar.
 

post #6 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That alert box pretty much sums up Adobe's effort into making Mac software.

 

Or, it sums up Apple's attitude to Mac OS X if it is simply leaving developers to find out the hard way that it is removing APIs.

 

Apple's developer support leaves a lot to be desired, especially for Mac OS.

post #7 of 58

As someone who has been encountering this issue on old projects migrated to the new CS6 on a Retina MBP I'm at least glad they have admitted a problem rather than make me spend any more time trying to troubleshoot the damn thing.

post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

 

Or, it sums up Apple's attitude to Mac OS X if it is simply leaving developers to find out the hard way that it is removing APIs.

 

Apple's developer support leaves a lot to be desired, especially for Mac OS.

 

Most likely Adobe was using a private API that's now been changed or removed in the special build of 10.7.4 released with the new Macs. Apple has zero obligation to inform developers of changes to APIs that they aren't supposed to be using in the first place.

post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That alert box pretty much sums up Adobe's effort into making Mac software.

 

Yep... Adobe seems to be falling asleep at the wheel... again...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

 

Or, it sums up Apple's attitude to Mac OS X if it is simply leaving developers to find out the hard way that it is removing APIs.

 

Apple's developer support leaves a lot to be desired, especially for Mac OS.


Get a clue.  If you even remotely keep tab on what's going on with Apple's OS release schedule, Apple gives developers the opportunity to test updates before publishing it to the world.  Are you even a developer in the know, or are you simply some weekend wannabe coder?

post #10 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Don't get me wrong, I am not laying this all at Adobe's feet. How a release of OS X got out into the wild with such an easy to identify problem in a major piece of software speaks to exactly how much thought and care Apple is putting into its testing procedures which in turns says a lot about how much Apple cares about its professional users. Of course, I guess that memo was sent long ago.

 

-kpluck

 

Why is this apple's fault? It isn't their job to make their hardware compatible with 3rd party software. It is up to the developers to make their software work with new OS releases. It's part of their jobs. Who knows what kind of janky hacks Adobe is using with their ancient code base. 

 

 

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post #11 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

 

Yep... Adobe seems to be falling asleep at the wheel... again...

 


Get a clue.  If you even remotely keep tab on what's going on with Apple's OS release schedule, Apple gives developers the opportunity to test updates before publishing it to the world.  Are you even a developer in the know, or are you simply some weekend wannabe coder?

+1 to this. Apple gives a ton of a notice (much more than other companies I could name) of when they are going to deprecate something.

 

 

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post #12 of 58
So the real questions here are;

What API(s) were removed…and

Can they be reinstalled somehow, using Pacifist to remove the appropriate modules from the 10.7 installer?…or

Will their reinstallation cause other problems for the OS?

The last question is whether Apple removed these intentionally, or whether it was inadvertent.
post #13 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That alert box pretty much sums up Adobe's effort into making Mac software.


It equally shows Apple's slack efforts at testing their products before putting them in the hands of users.

post #14 of 58

@cnocbui

 

You can't be serious, right?  Apple's products function just fine; it's Adobe who's relying on private APIs that they shouldn't be relying on anyway that crash their software.  Why would Apple have any obligation to clean up after purely third party software issues?

post #15 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Or, it sums up Apple's attitude to Mac OS X if it is simply leaving developers to find out the hard way that it is removing APIs.

Uh… huh.

I take it back, I think I like how DaHarder and MacRulez never post anymore. If we could get ALL trolls to just +1 comments they like instead of posting their own opinions and responses, eventually there won't be any more posts for them to +1 at all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

It equally shows Apple's slack efforts at testing their products before putting them in the hands of users.

What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The last question is whether Apple removed these intentionally, or whether it was inadvertent.

The APIs were intentionally removed. The damage done was inadvertent.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #16 of 58

This is wonderful, so it's going to take Adobe, what, two years to come up with a fix that they will "roll" into a future CS release?

 

Adobe makes crap bloatware and needs to die.

post #17 of 58

This is precisely why I never buy new hardware or software as soon as it's released, especially Apple kit which almost always seems to have problems in the first few months. Adobe isn't much better either.

post #18 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

@cnocbui

 

You can't be serious, right?  Apple's products function just fine; it's Adobe who's relying on private APIs that they shouldn't be relying on anyway that crash their software.  Why would Apple have any obligation to clean up after purely third party software issues?

 

Why does Apple allow third party software to access private APIs? It seems that Apple should tighten that up, don't you think?

post #19 of 58

Trolls and iHaters are once again out in full force displaying the exact same amount of cluelessness of how software development works and managed.

Come on mods, can't you spray some pest-be-gone on these guys?

post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

This is wonderful, so it's going to take Adobe, what, two years to come up with a fix that they will "roll" into a future CS release?

Adobe makes crap bloatware and needs to die.

You forgot to add that they'll charge you $3,000 for the upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

Why does Apple allow third party software to access private APIs? It seems that Apple should tighten that up, don't you think?

Developers have been told repeatedly not to use undocumented APIs. Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe can't follow instructions?
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post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Trolls and iHaters are once again out in full force displaying the exact same amount of cluelessness of how software development works and managed.

Come on mods, can't you spray some pest-be-gone on these guys?

We don't actually have a trolling policy here. As long as forum users aren't being insulted or accosted, they can say whatever they want.

We do have a Feedback subforum, though!

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

 

Why is this apple's fault? It isn't their job to make their hardware compatible with 3rd party software. It is up to the developers to make their software work with new OS releases. It's part of their jobs. Who knows what kind of janky hacks Adobe is using with their ancient code base. 

 

I didn't say it was only their fault but they certainly share some of the blame. It wasn't that long ago that Apple told developers to go ahead and count on 64 bit carbon then a year later decided to pull the plug on that causing delays in 64 bit software such as some of Adobe's products. http://arstechnica.com/apple/2007/06/64-bit-support-in-leopard-no-carbon-love/

 

As far as working with developers go, Apple is no angel. Only a true Apple fanboi could take the position it is all Adobe's fault.

 

-kpluck

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post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


The APIs were intentionally removed. The damage done was inadvertent.

We can't assume that yet, unless you have some information from Apple stating so. I've see this happen before, over the years, and then Apple ended up putting them back (with different API's or Kext's).

Even if it were intentional, I'd like to know, from Apple, not a poster here making assumptions, that these were indeed private API's. The other question is whether Apple should be having private API's for this sort of thing, or whether they should be made public.

If these were removed intentionally, then Apple usually says so to developers, and either provides another, newer framework for doing what these did, or tells why they are no longer used, and suggests alternative methods for accomplishing the same, or similar result.

It's also very unusual to remove API's in a point update, as this is usually done through an upgrade.

I wouldn't be surprised to find other software suffering the same problem from this. Adobe is just the most noticeable right now.
post #24 of 58

We have no idea whether this was a private API or not, but you'd think if it wasn't, more applications would be having this issue with the update.

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post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

@cnocbui

 

You can't be serious, right?  Apple's products function just fine; it's Adobe who's relying on private APIs that they shouldn't be relying on anyway that crash their software.  Why would Apple have any obligation to clean up after purely third party software issues?


If it was indeed a private API, then you are correct and I would withdraw the part of my comment that refers to this incident.  However, where in the original article is there mention the API was private?  The only mention of that I have seen is someones supposition.

post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


We can't assume that yet, unless you have some information from Apple stating so. I've see this happen before, over the years, and then Apple ended up putting them back (with different API's or Kext's).
Even if it were intentional, I'd like to know, from Apple, not a poster here making assumptions, that these were indeed private API's. The other question is whether Apple should be having private API's for this sort of thing, or whether they should be made public.
If these were removed intentionally, then Apple usually says so to developers, and either provides another, newer framework for doing what these did, or tells why they are no longer used, and suggests alternative methods for accomplishing the same, or similar result.
It's also very unusual to remove API's in a point update, as this is usually done through an upgrade.
I wouldn't be surprised to find other software suffering the same problem from this. Adobe is just the most noticeable right now.


I'll play the wait-and-see approach and hope Apple makes some official statement of what the API was.  In the past with OS updates that Apple puts out to the developer community, I've always read the API update documentation of times past and Apple always mentions the rules of using it, deprecate, etc... I find it really, really hard to believe that Apple would just make an API disappear without telling anyone.  It's not their style.  No proof yet, but I am leaning more to Adobe doing something with an API it wasn't supposed to do, but I'll wait and see. :)

post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


If it was indeed a private API, then you are correct and I would withdraw the part of my comment that refers to this incident.  However, where in the original article is there mention the API was private?  The only mention of that I have seen is someones supposition.

I haven't seen any reports of public APIs being removed. So where is the information suggesting that Apple removed a public API? Historically, when they remove public APIs, they announce it, but not when they remove private APIs.

Furthermore, Apple has been working with developers for a long time on Mountain Lion - probably a year. Developers are supposed to test their apps to see if they work. It is not up to Apple to test every conceivable app - but rather, it's the developer's responsibility. So why didn't Adobe catch this?
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post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


We don't actually have a trolling policy here. As long as forum users aren't being insulted or accosted, they can say whatever they want.
We do have a Feedback subforum, though!


Hmmm. I'd say being called a MS fanboy or an fanDroid counts as being insulted, so this rule might be dangerous ^^

 

/me hides behind his not-yet-Retina screen.

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post #29 of 58

The last time I reported a bug that crashed InDesign, and Adobe confirmed it, their "solution" was the purchase the upgrade.

post #30 of 58
Had the same error while using Mountain Lion Preview 2 until Preview 3 came.
Especially making pdf's triggered the error.
The error disappeared
post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

We have no idea whether this was a private API or not, but you'd think if it wasn't, more applications would be having this issue with the update.

They could be. But adobe is big, with very popular, and high visibility software. Even if it were a private API, we can expect that a lot of companies would use them, as they have in the past.

Sometimes, I have thought that Apple should see how many companies are using a private API, and if the interest is high, and there's no harm done, except to Apple's exclusivity, then they should declare them public.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I haven't seen any reports of public APIs being removed. So where is the information suggesting that Apple removed a public API? Historically, when they remove public APIs, they announce it, but not when they remove private APIs.
Furthermore, Apple has been working with developers for a long time on Mountain Lion - probably a year. Developers are supposed to test their apps to see if they work. It is not up to Apple to test every conceivable app - but rather, it's the developer's responsibility. So why didn't Adobe catch this?

It's very possible that they removed it at the last minute. After all, this was just gone as of 10.7.4, and apparently, just for the newest machines. As Adobe, and others haven't received the new machines before anyone else, there would be no way for them to have known about this problem.
post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


Hmmm. I'd say being called a MS fanboy or an fanDroid counts as being insulted, so this rule might be dangerous ^^

/me hides behind his not-yet-Retina screen.

This isn't always a sharp line in the sand. Since the term "fanboy" is so widely used, the mere usage isn't enough to cause a problem. We all use it from time to time. Same thing with the word "troll". But if it's used with other seriously depreciating comments, it's different.

We tend to have lively discussions here, though we don't allow what we often have seen on Slashdot, and some other sites.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


They could be. But adobe is big, with very popular, and high visibility software. Even if it were a private API, we can expect that a lot of companies would use them, as they have in the past.
Sometimes, I have thought that Apple should see how many companies are using a private API, and if the interest is high, and there's no harm done, except to Apple's exclusivity, then they should declare them public.

They will probably get it resolved soon since that is a major bug which prevents users in professional publishing from completing their projects. Apple has apparently completely revamped their icon related API with many new sizes as well as animations. There are dozens of new API calls related to this. 

 

There are also issues with other software experiencing problem related to icon in the dock. Apparently there are reports from last week of even Xcode suffering with crashes and not launching from the dock icon on 10.7.4 installed on rMBP.


Edited by mstone - 7/11/12 at 1:33pm

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post #35 of 58
Certainly, Apple supplies developers with software before it's released, but that's not true with hardware. Not even Adobe is given hardware in advance, so you can blame this one on Apple's "ship and test hardware" policy.
post #36 of 58

Right, like the zero notice they gave Adobe on depreciating 64-bit Carbon.

post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morky View Post

Right, like the zero notice they gave Adobe on depreciating 64-bit Carbon.

But was that really a shock to anyone?

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post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

Although not up to Photoshop features, Pixelmator is a great program and is programmed lean and mean to run fast in Mac OSX. People are finding alternatives to the Adobe bloatware and ridiculous upgrade prices. We need more app developers that produce excellent products like Pixelmator at reasonable prices.

It's a very nice little program for amateurs who shouldn't be using PS anyway. But if you consider it to be anywhere close to PS for the professional work we use it for, then it just shows that you aren't as familiar with PS as you think you are.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

They will probably get it resolved soon since that is a major bug which prevents users in professional publishing from completing their projects. Apple has apparently completely revamped their icon related API with many new sizes as well as animations. There are dozens of new API calls related to this. 

There are also issues with other software experiencing problem related to icon in the dock. Apparently there are reports from last week of even Xcode suffering with crashes and not launching from the dock icon on 10.7.4 installed on rMBP.

I'm not surprised. This isn't actually an "Adobe" problem. But Adobe might use these calls more than some other developers.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louderspace View Post

Certainly, Apple supplies developers with software before it's released, but that's not true with hardware. Not even Adobe is given hardware in advance, so you can blame this one on Apple's "ship and test hardware" policy.

Other than the lack of reports of this happening on Ivy Bridge PCs, I guess.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
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