or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › US PC shipments drop 6% as Apple posts 4% gain
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

US PC shipments drop 6% as Apple posts 4% gain - Page 2

post #41 of 63
I don't think PCs are going anywhere anytime soon, but I do think we're getting to a point where machines perceived as being far less powerful are becoming just powerful enough to do the things we used to do on PCs. It's even gotten to the point where I think Apple isn't as interested in updating the Mac Pro as much as a lot of professionals would like them to because there are now iMacs and MacBook Pros that seem to be nearly as powerful if not for the obvious lack of expansion slots. Now a lot of people scoff at that idea, but really, we've been doing video and 3D editing and such on much less powerful computers years before we had Mac Pros and the current lineups of Windows workstation machines.

I think it's a perception that anything less will be bogged down. Or like in all IT departments before 2007 where absolutely nothing was done without a Windows machine and a Blackberry. Maybe that's just my perception. It's like the whole FCPX debacle. At first everyone who did professional video editing absolutely despised it. Now I see lots of reviews where professionals are actually impressed with it and thrilled with the new version. Some people still hate it and have moved to Adobe Premier or Avid because they lost all faith in FCPX and Apple. That's their right to do if they see fit, but it would seem that a lot of people have either figured out FCPX and have made it work with their workflow or didn't need to figure anything out at all and it all just worked intuitively. A lot of reviewers now say that they don't understand what all the negativity was/is all about. The people who abandoned it did so because they possibly perceived that since it did things differently and that some features were eliminated in favor of other features that it is now an inferior product. Perhaps it really is inferior but some professionals are still using it and are happy with it. Maybe while it is not perceived as being as powerful as before, it is apparently still more than enough to get the job done.

I think that's why PCs are in decline...there are lesser machines now that are more than enough to get the job done. Soon enough that will probably include the iPad...much to the chagrin of many people. Hell, people are already including the MS Surface and that doesn't even exist yet!

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

Reply
post #42 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

The only successful MS consumer product to date is Xbox and its success was strongly tied to two things (i) selling the hardware for a loss and (ii) having exclusive rights to a few really popular "hard core" video games.  MS would have to get really lucky to replicate the Xbox outcome with Surface and it isn't likely to be very profitable for them.

 

Just to back your assertion up with some numbers, Microsoft dumped in excess of $30 billion into their consumer products division before they were finally able to start turning small annual profits on it.  Most of that money went into developing, manufacturing and marketing the Xbox and Xbox 360.  At the current rate of return, it'll take them decades to recoup their investment.

 

They can't afford another "success" like the Xbox.  It would break the company - especially with PC revenues set to start declining over the next decade, as the computer market begins to dry up and price pressures force them to reduce the amount they charge for Windows licenses or face increased competition from free alternatives like Linux and possibly Chrome.

post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

 

Just to back your assertion up with some numbers, Microsoft dumped in excess of $30 billion into their consumer products division before they were finally able to start turning small annual profits on it.  Most of that money went into developing, manufacturing and marketing the Xbox and Xbox 360.  At the current rate of return, it'll take them decades to recoup their investment.

 

They can't afford another "success" like the Xbox.  It would break the company - especially with PC revenues set to start declining over the next decade, as the computer market begins to dry up and price pressures force them to reduce the amount they charge for Windows licenses or face increased competition from free alternatives like Linux and possibly Chrome.

Nice post!

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #44 of 63

If the Surface isn't vaporware, which I suspect it is, it will be plagued by a fatal flaw from its inception -- Windows 8. An OS predicated on a GUI that looks like DOS bitmap boxes is so fugly it'll never sell... Call me a whacko but I predict Windows 8 will be stillborn -- dead at birth! 

post #45 of 63

Is it possible that the announcement of the Surface tablet by MSFT may have the unintended consequence of causing consumers to hold off on buying a new machine until they get a chance to check this thing out? When the surface was announced, there seemed to be many MSFT people who seemed to want to buy this thing when looking at the comments section of some of the articles that were written.

 

I know they wanted to try to prevent some people from going over to Apple by making this announcement but maybe they will, not on purpose, cause issues for their present OEMs? It will be interesting to see what happens to sales in the present quarter and how people/consumers are thinking.

post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

Is it possible that the announcement of the Surface tablet by MSFT may have the unintended consequence of causing consumers to hold off on buying a new machine until they get a chance to check this thing out? When the surface was announced, there seemed to be many MSFT people who seemed to want to buy this thing when looking at the comments section of some of the articles that were written.

I know they wanted to try to prevent some people from going over to Apple by making this announcement but maybe they will, not on purpose, cause issues for their present OEMs? It will be interesting to see what happens to sales in the present quarter and how people/consumers are thinking.

I doubt the bulk of the market is even meaningfully aware of the Surface at this point.

If after all that marketing by MS and Nokia, and after all this time, people are *still* barely aware there's a "Windows Phone", how much consumer awareness do you think there is for this "Surface" thing? Especially when it isn't even available for purchase.

If anything, Joe Average is dreaming about Apple gear. That's the power of Apple mindshare, and a lineup of great products that establish a stellar reputation and anticipation for the "next purchase."
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Lenovo sells a lot of low margin devices in Asia.  It doesn't do much good to have 50B in revenue if you only make 50M in profit.  PCs will soon be a commodity like corn.  HP recognized this problem and considered selling its PC division a year ago (note that it is the world leader).  It isn't very exciting to be a PC vendor these days.  

Lenovo sells quite a few devices in the US, primarily in corporate accounts, where commodity, sturdy, and stable PCs are desired.  I would hazard a guess that they are the top 'other' in the US category.   

 

While still a commodity... people make money growing and selling corn... especially on a contract basis.  Lenovo is the IBM ThinkPad.  It's about as good as it gets when it comes to a beefy corporate laptop (The CEO travels with a Macbook Air... but his all his contractors get Lenovos).

post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Windows 8 will be stillborn -- dead at birth! 

Unnecessary redundancy there? ;-)
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Unnecessary redundancy there? ;-)

He's channelling Microsoft.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #50 of 63

What will happen when people realize that they only need/use minimal capabilities of Office on their tablets for content creation?

 

What if the likes of iWork are enough to satisfy most users?  80%?

 

Now I'm convinced that MS missed the opportunity to put Office on the iPad.

 

Office... Office.. We don't need no stinkin' Office!

 

Dictated on my iPad.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/11/12 at 8:00pm
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Office... Office.. We don't need no stinkin' Office!

Dictated on my iPad.

Did you do the stereotypical accent for that part?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #52 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Perhaps, but Amazon has a big problem. There's a pretty strong move afoot to require sales taxes on Internet sales - even if you don't have a nexus in the state. That, combined with the fact that as Amazon grows, they need new warehouses, expanding the number of states they pay taxes (a la California), means that Amazon is likely to lose a key cost advantage.
Given that Amazon only makes a few percent on each sale, requiring the customer to pay 10% sales tax (for example) may shift a lot of Amazon customers back to brick and mortar. While I expect that Amazon will adapt and survive, it will sure take away much of their ability to subsidize loss leaders like the Kindle Fire (allegedly).

If the recent rumors are correct, we are going to find out if Amazon can break into the smartphone market sooner than any legislation could be passed to require sales tax.  I also think Amazon did a better job than anyone else in the tablet market of creating a reason for user's to buy their device.  MS and Google just throw up some hardware specs and say "buy me because I'm for sale."  Amazon is creating an ecosystem and has the customers to do it.  

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Amazon is going to hinder Apple.  I just think Amazon has a chance of succeeding in the tablet market where Google and MS don't.  I see zero chance of the Surface succeeding.  Surface is DOA.  MS won't succeed with phones or tablets.  Google will continue to succeed with phones, but I don't see success in the tablet market.  

 

Maybe Google and Amazon should form an alliance??????

post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

 

Just to back your assertion up with some numbers, Microsoft dumped in excess of $30 billion into their consumer products division before they were finally able to start turning small annual profits on it.  Most of that money went into developing, manufacturing and marketing the Xbox and Xbox 360.  At the current rate of return, it'll take them decades to recoup their investment.

 

They can't afford another "success" like the Xbox.  It would break the company - especially with PC revenues set to start declining over the next decade, as the computer market begins to dry up and price pressures force them to reduce the amount they charge for Windows licenses or face increased competition from free alternatives like Linux and possibly Chrome.

Well done on the Xbox analysis.  With regard to declining PC revenues, I would add that even if MS doesn't lower their price, there will be declining profits.  From a performance standpoint, there just isn't a compelling reason to spend money on new computers.  The upgrade cycle for desktops is going to stretch out to 5 years and beyond.   

post #54 of 63
Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that. We used to upgrade our personal and office iMacs quite aggressively. Except the last cycle. It''ll be four years since our last desktop upgrades but we will probably upgrade our iPads and iPhones every 2 years.

With limited funds, the desktops are just not as exciting as the portable stuff.
post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that. We used to upgrade our personal and office iMacs quite aggressively. Except the last cycle. It''ll be four years since our last desktop upgrades but we will probably upgrade our iPads and iPhones every 2 years.
With limited funds, the desktops are just not as exciting as the portable stuff.

 

New hardware purchases aside, are there any compelling reasons for the consumer or enterprise to upgrade to Windows 8 or the latest Office software?

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

Lenovo seems to be kicking ass.  

 

 

Just like he said "PC sales must be really suffering".

post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I doubt the bulk of the market is even meaningfully aware of the Surface at this point.
If after all that marketing by MS and Nokia, and after all this time, people are *still* barely aware there's a "Windows Phone", how much consumer awareness do you think there is for this "Surface" thing? Especially when it isn't even available for purchase.
If anything, Joe Average is dreaming about Apple gear. That's the power of Apple mindshare, and a lineup of great products that establish a stellar reputation and anticipation for the "next purchase."
Ah but didn't you know ZDNET took a poll of CIO's around the globe and they're all waiting to get their hands on Surface. lol.gif
post #58 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

New hardware purchases aside, are there any compelling reasons for the consumer or enterprise to upgrade to Windows 8 or the latest Office software?


Well if they had already planned to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7, they might as well upgrade to Windows 8 since it is said to be less resource intensive than Win 7. Also Win 8 for the consumer would be more integrated with Surface and the XBox360.

 

But from my employer's perspective there really isn't anything wrong with Win XP that can be solved by Win 8. They will likely not upgrade until you can't purchase a new machine without it.

post #59 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Ah but didn't you know ZDNET took a poll of CIO's around the globe and they're all waiting to get their hands on Surface. lol.gif

 

CIOs probably love the idea because it requires the least thought on their part. They don't actually have to use the devices they force on everyone else (At least not to do anything the company gets paid for.).

post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock Me View Post

CIOs probably love the idea because it requires the least thought on their part. They don't actually have to use the devices they force on everyone else (At least not to do anything the company gets paid for.).

It goes beyond that.

CIOs are strongly in Microsoft's pocket. There are a number of reasons for that:

1. it's the "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" syndrome from the 80s. If you make a choice that's outside the mainstream, you are creating risk for yourself. If the decision fails, then you could get blamed for it. If, OTOH, you choose the standard and the decision fails, you can say that it must be someone else's fault.

2. A little bribery goes a long way. Not illegal bribery (obviously), but just the same. I used to have a neighbor who was CIO for a major bank. He got a couple of nice vacations every year for him and his wife. A full week, all expenses paid at a nice, exotic location - all paid for by Microsoft. Of course, he had to attend a couple of hours of seminars every week so it was 'education' and not a bribe.

3. Comfort level. People tend to choose what they're familiar with.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #61 of 63

strange world the analysts live in.

 

Sell a flash memory device with a 11 inch screen that has a pointing device where you tap, slide, pinch with your fingers, but have to coordinate the actions of your fingers with a virtual finger that's on the display. give it a mandatory physical keyboard and you have a "PC".

 

Move the pointing device onto the screen itself where you can directly manipulate the content, shrink the screen by 1", make the physical keyboard optional and instead use a virtual keyboard when needed.  Suddenly it's not a "PC" according to analysts, who then talk about the shrinking computer market.  

 

The PC market isn't shrinking, it's booming and Apple is dominating that boom.  Apple isn't down there with "other' in worldwide market share.  Apple is at the very top.  They sold 20 million iPads in the june quarter.  The iPad alone makes apple #1 in world wide market share and it's not even close.  They sold about 2x the computers HP sold.  They sold about as many computers as HP and Lenovo combined.

 

PC is "Personal Computer".  The iPad with WiFi+Cellular is the most "personal" computer ever made.

post #62 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I watched the MS presentation and it was very amateurish and clumsy! 1smile.gif I just don't think MS has the skill to successfully implement a competitor to the iPad. They have to be very worried about Apple and iOS! 1smile.gif
To ever be a competitor against the iPad, they would first of all have to get rid of their CEO Clown.
As long as they keep him in place I can only see them slip ever further in to the mud they are in.
post #63 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

strange world the analysts live in.

Sell a flash memory device with a 11 inch screen that has a pointing device where you tap, slide, pinch with your fingers, but have to coordinate the actions of your fingers with a virtual finger that's on the display. give it a mandatory physical keyboard and you have a "PC".

Move the pointing device onto the screen itself where you can directly manipulate the content, shrink the screen by 1", make the physical keyboard optional and instead use a virtual keyboard when needed.  Suddenly it's not a "PC" according to analysts, who then talk about the shrinking computer market.  

The PC market isn't shrinking, it's booming and Apple is dominating that boom.  Apple isn't down there with "other' in worldwide market share.  Apple is at the very top.  They sold 20 million iPads in the june quarter.  The iPad alone makes apple #1 in world wide market share and it's not even close.  They sold about 2x the computers HP sold.  They sold about as many computers as HP and Lenovo combined.

PC is "Personal Computer".  The iPad with WiFi+Cellular is the most "personal" computer ever made.

Well said. One can imagine the additional confusion had Apple's smart cover contained a keyboard like MS's Surface.

It'd be interesting to take a poll and see the percentage of people that think of the iPad as a computer vs. merely a consumption device.

I agree with your analysis completely. But I think most people get tripped up by the form factor, lack of a physical keyboard, and the lack of a file system that adheres to the common desktop metaphor.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › US PC shipments drop 6% as Apple posts 4% gain