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Anyone remember when Republicans impeached a president for perjury?

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 

Bet they won't bat an eye over their 2012 presidential candidate committing the same act.

 

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/07/yes-romney-perjured-himself.html

 

 

 

Quote:

The claim that he committed a felony by falsely reporting his role at Bain Capital under oath is what has really gotten under Romney's skin. But it seems pretty clear to me that he signed a federal financial disclosure form, under the penalty of perjury, saying he had not been involved "in any way" with Bain after he left for Utah in February 1999. That's a strong statement. And it is directly undercut by Romney's own statement in his 2002 attempt to prove residency to run for governor:

Romney testified that “there were a number of social trips and business trips that brought [him] back to Massachusetts, board meetings” while he was running the Olympics. He added that he remained on the boards of several companies, including the Lifelike Co., in which Bain Capital held a stake until 2001...

“He succeeded in that three-year period in restoring confidence in the Olympic Games, closing that disastrous deficit and staging one of the most successful Olympic Games ever to occur on US soil,” said Peter L. Ebb from Ropes & Gray, [his lawyer at the 2002 hearing].

“Now while all that was going on, very much in the public eye, what happened to his private and public ties to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? And the answer is they continued unabated just as they had.”

So the question of whether Romney committed a felony in his financial disclosure form is a very real one - because Romney and Romney's lawyer provide the strongest evidence that it was perjury. Now we have more contemporaneous evidence that Romney perjured himself:

During the 2002 hearing — in a remark that has not been previously reported — Romney said that after he departed Bain in February 1999 he went through a transition period regarding his work in Boston.

When a lawyer challenging his eligibility asked Romney, "Did you remain more or less continuously in Salt Lake City from February '99 to the end of the year," Romney answered: "Actually, there was some transition away from my work in Boston for the first few months and then I pretty much stayed there after." Trying to clarify this, the lawyer, after referring to this "transition," asked, "So from February through the end of the year you were pretty much full-time out in Utah, right?" Romney replied: "Well again, the beginning of the year was a good deal of time back and forth, but towards the last half of the year it was pretty much exclusively in Utah."

If there was a good deal of time back and forth in the first few months and some business conducted all the way through to December ("pretty much exclusively"), and if Romney's own lawyer tells an inquiry that Romney's work for Bain "continued unabated just as they had," then it is incontrovertibly true that Romney's statement under oath that he was not involved "in any way" in Bain business after February 1999 was a lie under oath.

I thought Republicans cared about perjury when it comes to high office. I mean, they impeached a sitting president for it. But their current candidate is an obvious perjurer and thereby a felon. How long will it take before this sinks in?

 

Your move, hypocrites.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #2 of 53

These desperate and trolling talking points really show how much the Obama campaign really wants to discuss anything, literally ANYTHING but the Obama record.

 

I've read through these issues and they really speak of gotcha nonsense while the president hopes, actually prays, the American public is too stupid to understand owning something and running it.

 

You can own a piece of stock. You are a co-owner of a company when you do this. You have an ownership interest. You in no form or fashion run it.

 

Go troll for Obama with something of substance. We can't afford another 5 trillion in deficit spending to have an economy sliding back into recession, a Senate that votes down their own party leader's budgets 99-0 and absolute nonsense like this that stinks of high school gossip while the country is sliding into ruination.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 53

Several years ago, during the Iraq cluster-f**k, I used to have a funny response to anyone who asked, "Do you think Al Gore would've gone after Saddam in the wake of 9/11?"  And my response always was, "Hell no.  He would've been too busy with his impeachment hearings!"

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #4 of 53
"Is either candidate really talking about the solutions that go along with the problems? No, I don't think so. They're talking about what the other ate for breakfast and the gaseous smells that resulted from the poor breakfasts they ate."
 
-- Gary Johnson (Libertarian Party Presidential Nominee)
 
 

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #5 of 53
Thread Starter 

So, just so we are clear...perjury, not an issue now?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #6 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So, just so we are clear...perjury, not an issue now?

 



A desperate Democratic President and his allegations are not the same thing as an actual charge or conviction of perjury. Clinton perjured on the stand with his own words and had his law license suspended.

 

You are welcome to do more than post the DailyKos talking points allegation if you have more than that but you don't. Andrew Sulllivan is the same bag of shit that demanded Sarah Palin submit herself to a maternity test and prove her own child came out of her own womb.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

These desperate and trolling talking points really show how much the Obama campaign really wants to discuss anything, literally ANYTHING but the Obama record.

 

I've read through these issues and they really speak of gotcha nonsense while the president hopes, actually prays, the American public is too stupid to understand owning something and running it.

 

You can own a piece of stock. You are a co-owner of a company when you do this. You have an ownership interest. You in no form or fashion run it.

 

Go troll for Obama with something of substance. We can't afford another 5 trillion in deficit spending to have an economy sliding back into recession, a Senate that votes down their own party leader's budgets 99-0 and absolute nonsense like this that stinks of high school gossip while the country is sliding into ruination.

lol.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #8 of 53
Thread Starter 

Wow, did Trumpet really claim that Romney didn't sign documents saying he was the CEO, chairman, and president?  Did he really claim that being the CEO, chairman, and president means one doesn't run the company?  Oh the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance one must somehow withstand to be a modern Republican.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #9 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Oh the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance one must somehow withstand to be a modern Republican.

 

Says the Obama supporter. lol.gif

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #10 of 53

Allow me to throw this into the mix since it seemed to go unnoticed in another thread :

 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12707047-the-larger-truth-about-romney-and-bain

 

 

Quote:

The larger truth about Romney and Bain

 

 

 

Quote:

Indeed, as the Globe reports -- and as the statement by Bain Capital implies -- Romney didn't "finalize a severance agreement with Bain until 2002." And it also notes that Romney classified his separation from Bain in 1999 as a "leave of absence" and not a final departure.

As Romney adviser Matt McDonald told Politico, "[Romney] was on the SEC filings because he was still technically the owner, but hadn't transferred ownership to other partners." Technically the owner?

What's more, according to the Globe, "state financial disclosure forms indicate he earned at least $100,000 as a Bain 'executive' in 2001 and 2002." (A campaign official says that payment was part of his retirement compensation agreement.) And, in one way or another, he continues to earn money from his time at Bain.

 

Sounds like a pretty solid connection to me. And a monetary one at that.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wow, did Trumpet really claim that Romney didn't sign documents saying he was the CEO, chairman, and president?  Did he really claim that being the CEO, chairman, and president means one doesn't run the company?  Oh the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance one must somehow withstand to be a modern Republican.

 

Did BR continue to troll and ignore the fact that all these matters have been clearly put before any and all regulatory groups and that nothing has been pursued, found in error, charged or anything along those lines for the entire 13 years since the claimed event happened?

 

Hey BR, I'm alleging that 10 years ago, you screwed a goat. Now I've got some smoke and mirrors and of course some bits of misdirection but what I don't have are any charges from anyone related to you doing anything.

 

So of course per BR reasoning, I'm completely right and justified. In fact if you disagree with me you are a hypocrite, engaging in mental gymnastics and are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

 

The real mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance are being engaged in by Obama supporters who backed fiscal sanity, peace, transparency and of course hope and change. Now what we have from them instead are executive privilege to not discuss Fast and Furious. We have Gitmo still open and more wars and support missions. We have 5 trillion in additional debt, more people on disability than who found jobs, record numbers of people dependent on government and no leadership from Barack Obama. His hope is to smear anyone who notes he is incompetent and the change he hopes to create is deluding everyone into thinking he wasn't responsible for leading the country for the last four years.

 

Barack Obama was going to change the culture of Washington D.C. Instead he is the personification of all that is wrong with it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Oh the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance one must somehow withstand to be a modern Republican.

 

Says the Obama supporter. lol.gif

There'll be a lot of them in November. ( wink if I could )

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #13 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Allow me to throw this into the mix since it seemed to go unnoticed in another thread :

 

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12707047-the-larger-truth-about-romney-and-bain

 

 

Quote:

The larger truth about Romney and Bain

 

 

 

Quote:

Indeed, as the Globe reports -- and as the statement by Bain Capital implies -- Romney didn't "finalize a severance agreement with Bain until 2002." And it also notes that Romney classified his separation from Bain in 1999 as a "leave of absence" and not a final departure.

As Romney adviser Matt McDonald told Politico, "[Romney] was on the SEC filings because he was still technically the owner, but hadn't transferred ownership to other partners." Technically the owner?

What's more, according to the Globe, "state financial disclosure forms indicate he earned at least $100,000 as a Bain 'executive' in 2001 and 2002." (A campaign official says that payment was part of his retirement compensation agreement.) And, in one way or another, he continues to earn money from his time at Bain.

 

Sounds like a pretty solid connection to me. And a monetary one at that.

 

Actually it reads just like the thinking of most Democrats and shows how they report something then attempt to distort it.

 

This is actual reasoning within your link...

Quote:
As Romney adviser Matt McDonald told Politico, "[Romney] was on the SEC filings because he was still technically the owner, but hadn't transferred ownership to other partners." Technically the owner?

 

The facts are stated. Nothing is in dispute about them and repeating the point italicized with a question mark noting skepticism is supposed to do what....mock it? Disprove it?

 

I guess that works on the Daily Show and Colbert Report though.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #14 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wow, did Trumpet really claim that Romney didn't sign documents saying he was the CEO, chairman, and president?  Did he really claim that being the CEO, chairman, and president means one doesn't run the company?  Oh the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance one must somehow withstand to be a modern Republican.

 

Did BR continue to troll and ignore the fact that all these matters have been clearly put before any and all regulatory groups and that nothing has been pursued, found in error, charged or anything along those lines for the entire 13 years since the claimed event happened?

 

Hey BR, I'm alleging that 10 years ago, you screwed a goat. Now I've got some smoke and mirrors and of course some bits of misdirection but what I don't have are any charges from anyone related to you doing anything.

 

So of course per BR reasoning, I'm completely right and justified. In fact if you disagree with me you are a hypocrite, engaging in mental gymnastics and are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

 

The real mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance are being engaged in by Obama supporters who backed fiscal sanity, peace, transparency and of course hope and change. Now what we have from them instead are executive privilege to not discuss Fast and Furious. We have Gitmo still open and more wars and support missions. We have 5 trillion in additional debt, more people on disability than who found jobs, record numbers of people dependent on government and no leadership from Barack Obama. His hope is to smear anyone who notes he is incompetent and the change he hopes to create is deluding everyone into thinking he wasn't responsible for leading the country for the last four years.

 

Barack Obama was going to change the culture of Washington D.C. Instead he is the personification of all that is wrong with it.

 

 

So says the master of Black is White!lol.gif

 

Don't you find it funny every time someone points out something that's wrong with Romney trumpy goes on a tear about all of the things he doesn't like about Obama? Instead of trying to disprove the statement. ( wink if I could )

 

And he does go on a bit doesn't he?

 

 

Quote:

Hey BR, I'm alleging that 10 years ago, you screwed a goat

I imagine that would be quite an issue if BR was running for president!lol.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #15 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

There'll be a lot of them in November. ( wink if I could )

 

Yes, a lot of people still believe the false dilemma.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #16 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So says the master of Black is White!lol.gif

 

Don't you find it funny every time someone points out something that's wrong with Romney trumpy goes on a tear about all of the things he doesn't like about Obama? Instead of trying to disprove the statement. ( wink if I could )

 

And he does go on a bit doesn't he?

 

So says the master of Black is White! Black and White? <--- This is proof you lied per your own link. This is Jimmac reasoning. No winking, no bullshit. Really, that is terrifying.

 

There isn't a way to disprove a loaded statement. Does your neighbor know you rape little girls? Please answer that question. If you don't then you are going on a tear about something else per you.

 

As for noting what is wrong about Obama. He is the sitting president. He is asking for reelection. Crazy concept perhaps to Democrats like yourself but the election is about him and the job he has done.

 

I know, or perhaps I should do like you do and pretend I speak for imaginary masses, WE ALL KNOW or THE FOLKS AROUND HERE ALL KNOW that you want to ignore that point Jimmac but this election is about Barack Obama and his horrible job performance.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #17 of 53

Hmmm...

 

 

Burma... Myanmar...  uniforms.... China... outsourcing...  trivial things...  JOBS

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/mitt-romney-olympics-outsourced-uniforms-burma_n_1677791.html

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/mitt-romney-outsourcing_n_1676839.html

 

 

 

Will create jobs...


Edited by Bergermeister - 7/16/12 at 6:58pm

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So says the master of Black is White!lol.gif

 

Don't you find it funny every time someone points out something that's wrong with Romney trumpy goes on a tear about all of the things he doesn't like about Obama? Instead of trying to disprove the statement. ( wink if I could )

 

And he does go on a bit doesn't he?

 

So says the master of Black is White! Black and White? <--- This is proof you lied per your own link. This is Jimmac reasoning. No winking, no bullshit. Really, that is terrifying.

 

There isn't a way to disprove a loaded statement. Does your neighbor know you rape little girls? Please answer that question. If you don't then you are going on a tear about something else per you.

 

As for noting what is wrong about Obama. He is the sitting president. He is asking for reelection. Crazy concept perhaps to Democrats like yourself but the election is about him and the job he has done.

 

I know, or perhaps I should do like you do and pretend I speak for imaginary masses, WE ALL KNOW or THE FOLKS AROUND HERE ALL KNOW that you want to ignore that point Jimmac but this election is about Barack Obama and his horrible job performance.

 

 

 

Quote:


 Does your neighbor know you rape little girls?

Man you really have a fixation on rape, pedophilia, screwing goats and such!lol.gif

 

 

Quote:

Please answer that question. If you don't then you are going on a tear about something else per you.

Like I've just said in another thread most of trumpy's posts are about me not the topic!lol.gif And why should I answer any of your questions when you refuse to answer mine?

 

 

Quote:
 I should do like you do and pretend I speak for imaginary masses,

 

If you did you'd be a Democrat and there's no imaginary masses there.lol.gif

 

And really trumpy are you implying you speak for most of the voting public? Well November may change your mind. ( wink if I could )

 

 


Edited by jimmac - 7/16/12 at 6:39pm
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post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

There'll be a lot of them in November. ( wink if I could )

 

Yes, a lot of people still believe the false dilemma.

Wait and see.

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post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Wait and see.

 

Wait and see what? I agreed with you.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Wait and see.

 

Wait and see what? I agreed with you.

Oh I'm sorry I see what you meant. Yes it will probably be Obama. Not the man from Bain.

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post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh I'm sorry I see what you meant. Yes it will probably be Obama. Not the man from Bain.

As if there's a substantial difference.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #23 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh I'm sorry I see what you meant. Yes it will probably be Obama. Not the man from Bain.

As if there's a substantial difference.

Well that's your view.

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post #24 of 53

BTW, Obama's history of drug use clearly violates SEVERAL felonies. Every leftist not calling for his imprisonment while declaring a signature on a piece of paper disqualifies someone for president and makes them a "potential" felon in the absence of any proof or charge is a profound hypocrite.

 

The claims against Romney are ALLEGED.

 

The felonies committed by Obama are ADMITTED.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

BTW, Obama's history of drug use clearly violates SEVERAL felonies.

 

But let's be fair to Obama. He's making up for this by ratcheting up drug enforcement during his administration.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #26 of 53
Thread Starter 

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

 

 

 

Quote:

tu quoque

You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

Pronounced too-kwo-kee. Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off the accused having to defend themselves and shifts the focus back onto the accuser themselves. The implication is that if one's opponent also does the thing that they are accused of, then their opponent is a hypocrite. Irrespective of whether this might be true or not, the problem lies in the fact that it is effectively a tactic to avoid recognising and responding to the criticism of one's argument - by turning it back on the accuser, the accused doesn't need to answer the accusation.

Example: Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

 

Typical.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #27 of 53

Oh look everyone: BR is interested in identifying the fallacies in things people say. One can only hope he'll turn this newfound insightfulness onto his own claims, statements and posts.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 53
Thread Starter 

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

 

 

 

Quote:

tu quoque

You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

Pronounced too-kwo-kee. Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off the accused having to defend themselves and shifts the focus back onto the accuser themselves. The implication is that if one's opponent also does the thing that they are accused of, then their opponent is a hypocrite. Irrespective of whether this might be true or not, the problem lies in the fact that it is effectively a tactic to avoid recognising and responding to the criticism of one's argument - by turning it back on the accuser, the accused doesn't need to answer the accusation.

Example: Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

 

Amusing that you used the precise fallacy I just pointed out.  Was that on purpose?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #29 of 53
Oh look everyone: BR is interested in identifying the fallacies in things people say. One can only hope he'll turn this newfound insightfulness onto his own claims, statements and posts.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh look everyone: BR is interested in identifying the fallacies in things people say. One can only hope he'll turn this newfound insightfulness onto his own claims, statements and posts.

 

Actually he was identifying the fallacy that is the premise of his own thread.

 


As he notes....

 

The implication is that if one's opponent also does the thing that they are accused of, then their opponent is a hypocrite.

 

Your move, hypocrites.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh look everyone: BR is interested in identifying the fallacies in things people say. One can only hope he'll turn this newfound insightfulness onto his own claims, statements and posts.

 

Tu quoque.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #32 of 53

Big Shit so he smoked some pot in his college days so what!
 

post #33 of 53

I'd actually like Romney more if he'd done a little weed in college.

 

But what has he left us with?  He's left us with the image of a man who has made millions off America and simply doesn't want to pay some back to her.  The purest form of being unpatriotic.  

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

But what has he left us with?  He's left us with the image of a man who has made millions off America and simply doesn't want to pay some back to her.  The purest form of being unpatriotic.  

 

No, what we have is a bunch of fucking envious, greedy pricks who think that they have a claim on what he (as well as others) have earned. The purest form of being greedy.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #35 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

No, what we have is a bunch of fucking envious, greedy pricks who think that they have a claim on what he (as well as others) have earned. The purest form of being greedy.

And that's the root of it.  You think anyone who wants a better society for all is just a greedy, envious prick.  Only sad, myopic fools would say that.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You think anyone who wants a better society for all is just a greedy, envious prick.

 

Wrong.

 

The deeper problem is that you think taking from people make a better society.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #37 of 53

I like roads.  And highways.  And places for criminally insane people to be put.  I like clean water.  I like safe prescription drugs.  I like airplanes not crashing into each other.  I like court houses where I can take my grievances or prosecute criminals.  I like schools.  I like public colleges.  I like a clean relatively safe society.

 

I like freedom.  But freedom and safety aren't free.  

 

But you know all this.  And you're just playing cute with rhetoric.  I get it.  But you know these things.

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I like roads.  And highways.  And places for criminally insane people to be put.  I like clean water.  I like safe prescription drugs.  I like airplanes not crashing into each other.  I like court houses where I can take my grievances or prosecute criminals.  I like schools.  I like public colleges.  I like a clean relatively safe society.

 

So do I.

 

P.S. We should note that most of what the government spends money on is none of those things. And that you could reduce government spending by about 80% and still have all of those things. But we won't let that fact get in the way.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I like freedom.

 

I suspect for some people, yes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

And you're just playing cute with rhetoric.

 

No. But it is obvious that you're making all sorts of assumptions that none of these things can be done without the state.

 

In particular, things like roads, highways, schools, safe food and drugs, air safety, general personal safety and even many matters that are taken to the courts could all be handled with a state. even clean water could be handled privately in a true private property regime. Clean air might be harder, but certainly not impossible. And almost certainly those things would be less costly and better quality with more options and flexibility if handled privately.


Edited by MJ1970 - 7/18/12 at 3:07pm

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I like roads.  And highways.  And places for criminally insane people to be put.  I like clean water.  I like safe prescription drugs.  I like airplanes not crashing into each other.  I like court houses where I can take my grievances or prosecute criminals.  I like schools.  I like public colleges.  I like a clean relatively safe society.

 

I like freedom.  But freedom and safety aren't free.  

 

But you know all this.  And you're just playing cute with rhetoric.  I get it.  But you know these things.

 

Because roads wouldn't exist without government?

 

And highways wouldn't exist without government>

 

And places for criminally insane people, clean water, safe prescription drugs, planes not crashing into each other, courts, schools, low-cost education, and a "relatively safe society" wouldn't exist without government?

 

Freedom and safety wouldn't exist without government?

 

Your rights do not come from government. They exist by virtue of your humanity. No man has given them to you - they simply are.

 

Freedom IS free.

 

And a group of individuals calling themselves a government has no more moral justification than I do in attempting to deprive you of those rights.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'd actually like Romney more if he'd done a little weed in college.

 

But what has he left us with?  He's left us with the image of a man who has made millions off America and simply doesn't want to pay some back to her.  The purest form of being unpatriotic.  

 

Note the key word is IMAGE.

 

Is that all Democrats and leftists can deal with these days? When watching their fake news shows, talking in bumper sticker slogans and sharing ridiculing and snarky pictures back and forth, is all they can think about with regard to their broke future and unemployed state of being is that they don't like the image claimed about someone?

 

This thread declares that anyone who does not equate a sitting president lying to a grand jury to about one action (sex with an intern) to cover up another action (Paula Jones sexual harassment) in which said lies resulted in the loss of his law license REGARDLESS of what happened in Congress, to be the same as a mere allegation by a talking head who demands a mother prove her own maternity?

 

They aren't equivalent. Congress couldn't vote to impeach a candidate. Romney hasn't testified in any regard about his actions.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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