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UK judge rules Apple must advertise Samsung did not copy the iPad - Page 4

post #121 of 301

A couple of lines in the public notices section of a newspapers classified section would fulfil this request.

 

"Samsung is not cool enough to copy us."

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post #122 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:

 

 


He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.

"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.

"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.

 
So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?

I think you've brought up an important point.  Apple, just like Samsung, isn't trying to get "informed users" to buy their products.  They want all users to buy their products.  I'd argue that the marketing both companies do, suggests that the market is more uninformed users than informed users.  I know this is out of context, but if you look at two things and think they look very much the same - then spend weeks "learning" what differences there are, it's not exactly a fair statement to say you now realize they are different, where in the beginning you thought they were the same (or more similar than not).

post #123 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I agree that Samsung tweaked THIS particular design enough to get away with it. (But didn’t they have an earlier design that WAS a more direct iPad copy?) When Apple “advertises” that, they should also include side-by-sides of all the TRULY blatant copying Samsung has done... http://photos.appleinsider.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg

http://dcurt.is/chromebox-samsung

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/09/29/apple-samsung-copycat-2/

 

Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves.  How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.

post #124 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.

Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, and someone would find the rock to be a good actor.

 

Only in your world.

 

People once thought that about the IBM PC, the Sony Walkman, the Atari 2600. All great products that dominated their respective markets and years later just faded away without anyone giving a hoot.

 

NEVER think your product is irreplaceable, its one of the fundamental rules of business. And trust me, Apple knows this. They will never do something so stupid.

post #125 of 301

Whatever... That judge got jokes! Maybe the judge should be ordered to make an apology to Apple for such a ruling.

post #126 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.

 

This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.

 

Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
 

 

Probably the best post I've read. It's a shame so many people on here cannot remove emotion and look at the facts.

 

According to Bloomberg news the Judge HAS granted Apple leave to appeal so we shall see what happens. I can't see any reason why the High Court would overturn the ruling but let's wait and see.

post #127 of 301

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

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post #128 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

 

Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves.  How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.

Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.

 

Differences:

 

No home button

the camera is placed different

the screen size is diff

its thinner

the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen

the aspect ratio is diff

diff volume rocker

diff volume rocker placement

diff bezel thickness

it clearly says Samsung on the back

There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad

3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position

charging port in diff position

silver rim around the edge

 

Similarities:

Rectangular

Rounded Edges

Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)

 

Yep, overwhelming evidence there.

 

By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all

 

However, it came after tablets such as these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg

 

Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.

 

So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.

 

Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one

http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/

 

So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.

post #129 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Coke didn't invent the bottle yet no one is able to copy the curve design.
... and that's why it is called a trademark and not a patent...
post #130 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, 

 

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/01/13/iphone-china.html

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/15/chinese-customs-tells-proview-that-ban-of-ipad-exports-would-be-difficult/

 

 

Quote:
However, China's customs authorities told Proview that it would be difficult to execute such a ban due to the popularity of Apple's products:
 
"The customs have told us that it will be difficult to implement a ban because many Chinese consumers love Apple products. The sheer size of the market is very big," Yang Long-san, chief of Proview Technology (Shenzhen), told Reuters in a telephone interview on Wednesday.
post #131 of 301

Did apple ever claim in media or in print that Samsung copied the iPad?

 

Why wouldn't they just pay a fine or something if the judge felt they were wrong?

 

Forcing them to advertise for a competitor is a malicious ruling, plain and simple. I have lost respect for the UK judicial system if this kind of thing is allowed.

post #132 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtrac View Post

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

post #133 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

 

Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.

 

Unfortunately, socialists multiply quicker than you can squash 'em. They're worse than cockroaches. At least cockroaches don't try to raise your taxes.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #134 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.

 

Differences:

 

No home button

the camera is placed different

the screen size is diff

its thinner

the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen

the aspect ratio is diff

diff volume rocker

diff volume rocker placement

diff bezel thickness

it clearly says Samsung on the back

There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad

3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position

charging port in diff position

silver rim around the edge

 

Similarities:

Rectangular

Rounded Edges

Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)

 

Yep, overwhelming evidence there.

 

By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all

 

However, it came after tablets such as these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg

 

Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.

 

So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.

 

Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one

http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/

 

So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.

 

I know you are just regurgitating the Samesung talking points your puppeteers gave you but..one only need look at this...http://photos.appleinsider.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg

post #135 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.

 

Apple has very competitive products. It would be senseless for them to pull them from the UK, despite whatever boneheaded ruling is passed down.

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post #136 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Oh boy. I've got my popcorn ready for this thread.

Me too, I almost dropped my coffee when I read it. This is going to be fun!

post #137 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

 

Coke didn't invent the bottle yet no one is able to copy the curve design.

 

It's not about the "square" or "rectangle", it's the fact Sammy mimic'd the iPad in many ways.

Yes but they also had similar designs in their products before the iPad was released. Apple patent for design was nonsense to begin with.

post #138 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post


Agreed, along with an additional statement to the effect of "However, other courts in the United States, Australia and other countries have ruled that the Samsung device was an improper copy."

It was reversed in Australia.....

post #139 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

I simply wouldn't do it. It's not like the people in the UK won't simply scalp for the devices anyway. 

That's why you aren't in charge of any company and make posts like that on the internet...

post #140 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

One of the principles of neurolinguistic programming is that the human brain does not store negation.  If you tell a person "there is not a rattlesnake in your mailbox" the brain stores an image of a
rattlesnake in the mailbox.  Additionally, the person to whom you said this will probably recall the image every time they open their mailbox from then on.  Apple advertising that Samsung DOES NOT
copy will implant the association between Samsung and copying, even in the minds of people who knew nothing of the dispute between the two companies.  If I were in Samsung's place, I would not
want this.

You beat me to it! The judge just threw one of the nicest eggs EVER... on Samsung. It is Samsung that will be made to look foolish here, believe me.

In fact, do exactly as the judge has ordered: picture of Samsung GalTab and the exact text: "Samsung Galaxy Tab did not copy the iPad." I would assume that Apple will be able to use their logo. I would elect not to, and instead in huge lettering: By order of Judge Colin Birss, etc. etc.

It's called "taking the high road". This is "thermonuclear" Sun Tzu 1smile.gif
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post #141 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

 

Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.

Maybe they should have had a quote from a brilliant thinker like George W Bush lololol

post #142 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

Bwaahhhh........

 

Get serious. LOL.

post #143 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJunior View Post

Like I said, this might teach arrogant Apple a lesson!

 

To keep hitting the "Appeal" button?

 

Apple really isn't being taught a lesson here (at least, not the kind of lesson you WANT them to experience.)

 

If the UK judge's ruling is based on the connection in UK law between an unsuccessful complaint and libel, then the lesson for Apple is to be careful how they go about asserting their claims in the UK. That's all. 

 

There is no such easy way to connect libel with an unsuccessful complaint in the US, for example. 

post #144 of 301
Let's not forget that Apple is legally bound to enforce or legally exercise their rights to their patents and trademarks, or potentially lose that ability in the future.

So... could it be, that Apple is doing this as a "precedent" and forewarning to certain products and patents to come? The courts then can NOT say that they do not have enough experience, or that there aren't any rulings of this kind that have been made, so as to prolong a long drawn out legal proceeding.

This could also be used to poke fun at, and be very good reasons for Apple to battle the USPO, and help bring on patent reform. I actually would say that this would be to the detriment of the other tech manufacturers in the future. We, they and Apple KNOWS... that they are copying and reverse-engineering Apple's products the day they hit the market.

Apple was far too slow trying to stop Microsoft at one time, and look what happened. This time they're on their toes, and wont even let that ball get rolling. It's a steep and fast hill down if they do.
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post #145 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

How did the person to whom you were responding merit THAT response?

 

He said:

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by vtrac View Post

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

 

 

 

He just gave his opinion (irrespective of whether or not it's informed) on what I assume is your legal system. Apparently he thinks it's corrupt. 

 

What actual harm has been done here?  Are you some sort of fascist?

post #146 of 301

Maybe we shouldn't blame the Koreans, Chinese etc. They're just trying to make an easy buck and create local jobs in their own countries off the sweat of western R&D. But the west seems bent on absolutely f***ing itself out of existence and giving away the farm in a single generation. 

post #147 of 301

nm


Edited by Realistic - 7/18/12 at 2:11pm
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post #148 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Let's not forget that Apple is legally bound to enforce or legally exercise their rights to their patents and trademarks, or potentially lose that ability in the future.
So... could it be, that Apple is doing this as a "precedent" and forewarning to certain products and patents to come? The courts then can NOT say that they do not have enough experience, or that there aren't any rulings of this kind that have been made, so as to prolong a long drawn out legal proceeding.
This could also be used to poke fun at, and be very good reasons for Apple to battle the USPO, and help bring on patent reform. I actually would say that this would be to the detriment of the other tech manufacturers in the future. We, they and Apple KNOWS... that they are copying and reverse-engineering Apple's products the day they hit the market.
Apple was far too slow trying to stop Microsoft at one time, and look what happened. This time they're on their toes, and wont even let that ball get rolling. It's a steep and fast hill down if they do.

True but many of their patents are nonsense and vague.

post #149 of 301

The last time I remember this happening was when the Sun newspaper had to print a front page apology to Elton John after to losing a libel case. They wrote an article which claimed he was gay.

 

I wonder if we're not misinterpreting the judge's motives. I'm sure he's smart enough to know that this is not going to stand up in appeal, but at the same time he might want to send a clear message to Apple: keep this up and you could wind up being badly bitten.

post #150 of 301
I would argue that it isn't appropriate for Apple to say anything about the UK court ruling (that Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't copy iPad) on their website because Apple never posted any claim that the Galaxy Tab copied the iPad on their website to begin with. That is something they asserted before the courts. And court rulings are the job of the press to disseminate to the public. It's not Apple's job.

Is it supposed to be a punitive measure for Apple going before the courts and arguing a civil case? Will all future civil cases result in measures like this? Of so, what is it supposed to accomplish?

This ruling is bizarre.

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post #151 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperJunior View Post

Like I said, this might teach arrogant Apple a lesson!

 

South Korea fighting!

 

Mighty Samsung fighting!

"South Korea fighting" wasn't just a bad t-shirt from the World Cup 2002 - it was an open admission to the world of Konglish. 

 

Even at with your bribed refs and home turf advantage the best "South Korea Fighting" could muster was 4th place. 4th! And we all know the Oriental connotation of that number :)

 

Samsung, POSCO, LG etc were all built on western expertise and stolen patents - but I guess that's something you can be proud of. 

post #152 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

The last time I remember this happening was when the Sun newspaper had to print a front page apology to Elton John after to losing a libel case. They wrote an article which claimed he was gay.

 

Wait, what? Elton John's not gay?!

post #153 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

 

British libel laws  - as draconian as they are - have never been used against anonymous posters to my knowledge.

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post #154 of 301

Its thanks to our stupid legal system that the country is paralysed by fear of personal injury lawsuits, health & safety laws and the outlawing of free speech an why we no longer make anything in this country. Thanks to successive socialist governments the UK is now totally hostile to business, and in particular small startups making innovative things of the type which thrive in California. It makes me ashamed to be British.

post #155 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

This ruling is bizarre.

 

But is it? Samsung is a friend to the British people. Just yesterday, they bailed out one of our struggling tech companies, CSR, to the tune of £200M.

 

And now, a judge rules that Apple must apologise for falsely accusing Samsung of copying their designs.

 

Do not think these two events are unconnected - "justice" sometimes works in mysterious ways.

post #156 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

True but many of their patents are nonsense and vague.

You really need to take that up with the patent issuers, who, apparently, disagreed with you.

post #157 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

British libel laws  - as draconian as they are - have never been used against anonymous posters to my knowledge.

And that too, speech outside Britain? Good luck trying.

 

I was laughing my a** off at that post. He's off his rocker.

post #158 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

True but many of their patents are nonsense and vague.

...and that's exactly what I'm pointing out: even Apple, regardless of the patents they have...more than likely thinks the whole USPTO-thing is absolute nonsense.

However, in many cases time and again... Apple is the first to use any of their patented processes in an actual product, regardless of how stupid, vague and/or all-encompassing the patent is. That's their advantage, not necessarily the patents.

It's been said before, but again: their would be NO touch Smartphones, Tablets or Ultrabooks anywhere, without Apple leading the way first with their products.

A Funny fact: Apple was the very first company to integrate USB ports on their computers. They were the first to also NOT include them on a "computer", the iPad. It is now the Tech Geeks calling Apple idiots for dropping USB, when they probably wouldn't even have SCSI-2 yet if left to the other manufacturers.

Their always has to be a leader... and for +30 years, that has always been Apple.
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post #159 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You really need to take that up with the patent issuers, who, apparently, disagreed with you.

Well the judge didn't....

post #160 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


...and that's exactly what I'm pointing out: even Apple, regardless of the patents they have...more than likely thinks the whole USPTO-thing is absolute nonsense.
However, in many cases time and again... Apple is the first to use any of their patented processes in an actual product, regardless of how stupid, vague and/or all-encompassing the patent is. That's their advantage, not necessarily the patents.
It's been said before, but again: their would be NO touch Smartphones, Tablets or Ultrabooks anywhere, without Apple leading the way first with their products.
A Funny fact: Apple was the very first company to integrate USB ports on their computers. They were the first to also NOT include them on a "computer", the iPad. It is now the Tech Geeks calling Apple idiots for dropping USB, when they probably wouldn't even have SCSI-2 yet if left to the other manufacturers.
Their always has to be a leader... and for +30 years, that has always been Apple.

There were tablets way before Apple released the iPad though. It's not like their design is particularly unique.

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