UK judge rules Apple must advertise Samsung did not copy the iPad - Page 4

A couple of lines in the public notices section of a newspapers classified section would fulfil this request.

"Samsung is not cool enough to copy us."

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdasd 

The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:

 

 

He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.

"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.

"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.

 

So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?

I think you've brought up an important point.  Apple, just like Samsung, isn't trying to get "informed users" to buy their products.  They want all users to buy their products.  I'd argue that the marketing both companies do, suggests that the market is more uninformed users than informed users.  I know this is out of context, but if you look at two things and think they look very much the same - then spend weeks "learning" what differences there are, it's not exactly a fair statement to say you now realize they are different, where in the beginning you thought they were the same (or more similar than not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagromme 

I agree that Samsung tweaked THIS particular design enough to get away with it. (But didn’t they have an earlier design that WAS a more direct iPad copy?) When Apple “advertises” that, they should also include side-by-sides of all the TRULY blatant copying Samsung has done... http://photos.appleinsider.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg

http://dcurt.is/chromebox-samsung

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/09/29/apple-samsung-copycat-2/

Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves.  How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkichline 

I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.

Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, and someone would find the rock to be a good actor.

Only in your world.

People once thought that about the IBM PC, the Sony Walkman, the Atari 2600. All great products that dominated their respective markets and years later just faded away without anyone giving a hoot.

NEVER think your product is irreplaceable, its one of the fundamental rules of business. And trust me, Apple knows this. They will never do something so stupid.

Whatever... That judge got jokes! Maybe the judge should be ordered to make an apology to Apple for such a ruling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolook 

I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.

 

This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.

 

Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
 

Probably the best post I've read. It's a shame so many people on here cannot remove emotion and look at the facts.

According to Bloomberg news the Judge HAS granted Apple leave to appeal so we shall see what happens. I can't see any reason why the High Court would overturn the ruling but let's wait and see.

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullhead 

 

Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves.  How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.

Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.

Differences:

No home button

the camera is placed different

the screen size is diff

its thinner

the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen

the aspect ratio is diff

diff volume rocker

diff volume rocker placement

diff bezel thickness

it clearly says Samsung on the back

There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad

3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position

charging port in diff position

silver rim around the edge

Similarities:

Rectangular

Rounded Edges

Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)

Yep, overwhelming evidence there.

By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all

However, it came after tablets such as these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg

Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.

So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.

Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one

http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/

So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy3 

Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/01/13/iphone-china.html

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/15/chinese-customs-tells-proview-that-ban-of-ipad-exports-would-be-difficult/

Did apple ever claim in media or in print that Samsung copied the iPad?

Why wouldn't they just pay a fine or something if the judge felt they were wrong?

Forcing them to advertise for a competitor is a malicious ruling, plain and simple. I have lost respect for the UK judicial system if this kind of thing is allowed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrac 

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 

 

Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.

Unfortunately, socialists multiply quicker than you can squash 'em. They're worse than cockroaches. At least cockroaches don't try to raise your taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy3 

Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.

 

Differences:

 

No home button

the camera is placed different

the screen size is diff

its thinner

the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen

the aspect ratio is diff

diff volume rocker

diff volume rocker placement

diff bezel thickness

it clearly says Samsung on the back

There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad

3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position

charging port in diff position

silver rim around the edge

 

Similarities:

Rectangular

Rounded Edges

Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)

 

Yep, overwhelming evidence there.

 

By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all

 

However, it came after tablets such as these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg

 

Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.

 

So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.

 

Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one

http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/

 

So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.

I know you are just regurgitating the Samesung talking points your puppeteers gave you but..one only need look at this...http://photos.appleinsider.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkichline 

I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.

Apple has very competitive products. It would be senseless for them to pull them from the UK, despite whatever boneheaded ruling is passed down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thataveragejoe 

Oh boy. I've got my popcorn ready for this thread.

Me too, I almost dropped my coffee when I read it. This is going to be fun!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungmark 

 

Coke didn't invent the bottle yet no one is able to copy the curve design.

 

It's not about the "square" or "rectangle", it's the fact Sammy mimic'd the iPad in many ways.

Yes but they also had similar designs in their products before the iPad was released. Apple patent for design was nonsense to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierrajeff 

Agreed, along with an additional statement to the effect of "However, other courts in the United States, Australia and other countries have ruled that the Samsung device was an improper copy."

It was reversed in Australia.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdonisSMU 

I simply wouldn't do it. It's not like the people in the UK won't simply scalp for the devices anyway. 

That's why you aren't in charge of any company and make posts like that on the internet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 

 

Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.

Maybe they should have had a quote from a brilliant thinker like George W Bush lololol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun, UK 

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

Bwaahhhh........

Get serious. LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperJunior 

Like I said, this might teach arrogant Apple a lesson!

To keep hitting the "Appeal" button?

Apple really isn't being taught a lesson here (at least, not the kind of lesson you WANT them to experience.)

If the UK judge's ruling is based on the connection in UK law between an unsuccessful complaint and libel, then the lesson for Apple is to be careful how they go about asserting their claims in the UK. That's all. 

There is no such easy way to connect libel with an unsuccessful complaint in the US, for example. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun, UK 

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

How did the person to whom you were responding merit THAT response?

He said:

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by vtrac 

It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.

 

He just gave his opinion (irrespective of whether or not it's informed) on what I assume is your legal system. Apparently he thinks it's corrupt. 

What actual harm has been done here?  Are you some sort of fascist?

Maybe we shouldn't blame the Koreans, Chinese etc. They're just trying to make an easy buck and create local jobs in their own countries off the sweat of western R&D. But the west seems bent on absolutely f***ing itself out of existence and giving away the farm in a single generation. 

nm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc 

Let's not forget that Apple is legally bound to enforce or legally exercise their rights to their patents and trademarks, or potentially lose that ability in the future.
So... could it be, that Apple is doing this as a "precedent" and forewarning to certain products and patents to come? The courts then can NOT say that they do not have enough experience, or that there aren't any rulings of this kind that have been made, so as to prolong a long drawn out legal proceeding.
This could also be used to poke fun at, and be very good reasons for Apple to battle the USPO, and help bring on patent reform. I actually would say that this would be to the detriment of the other tech manufacturers in the future. We, they and Apple KNOWS... that they are copying and reverse-engineering Apple's products the day they hit the market.
Apple was far too slow trying to stop Microsoft at one time, and look what happened. This time they're on their toes, and wont even let that ball get rolling. It's a steep and fast hill down if they do.

True but many of their patents are nonsense and vague.

The last time I remember this happening was when the Sun newspaper had to print a front page apology to Elton John after to losing a libel case. They wrote an article which claimed he was gay.

I wonder if we're not misinterpreting the judge's motives. I'm sure he's smart enough to know that this is not going to stand up in appeal, but at the same time he might want to send a clear message to Apple: keep this up and you could wind up being badly bitten.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperJunior 

Like I said, this might teach arrogant Apple a lesson!

 

South Korea fighting!

 

Mighty Samsung fighting!

"South Korea fighting" wasn't just a bad t-shirt from the World Cup 2002 - it was an open admission to the world of Konglish. 

Even at with your bribed refs and home turf advantage the best "South Korea Fighting" could muster was 4th place. 4th! And we all know the Oriental connotation of that number :)

Samsung, POSCO, LG etc were all built on western expertise and stolen patents - but I guess that's something you can be proud of. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayz 

The last time I remember this happening was when the Sun newspaper had to print a front page apology to Elton John after to losing a libel case. They wrote an article which claimed he was gay.

Wait, what? Elton John's not gay?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun, UK 

 

Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.

 

Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.

British libel laws  - as draconian as they are - have never been used against anonymous posters to my knowledge.

Its thanks to our stupid legal system that the country is paralysed by fear of personal injury lawsuits, health & safety laws and the outlawing of free speech an why we no longer make anything in this country. Thanks to successive socialist governments the UK is now totally hostile to business, and in particular small startups making innovative things of the type which thrive in California. It makes me ashamed to be British.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 

This ruling is bizarre.

But is it? Samsung is a friend to the British people. Just yesterday, they bailed out one of our struggling tech companies, CSR, to the tune of £200M.

And now, a judge rules that Apple must apologise for falsely accusing Samsung of copying their designs.

Do not think these two events are unconnected - "justice" sometimes works in mysterious ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredaroony 

True but many of their patents are nonsense and vague.

You really need to take that up with the patent issuers, who, apparently, disagreed with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdasd 

British libel laws  - as draconian as they are - have never been used against anonymous posters to my knowledge.

And that too, speech outside Britain? Good luck trying.

I was laughing my a** off at that post. He's off his rocker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anantksundaram 

You really need to take that up with the patent issuers, who, apparently, disagreed with you.

Well the judge didn't....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc 


...and that's exactly what I'm pointing out: even Apple, regardless of the patents they have...more than likely thinks the whole USPTO-thing is absolute nonsense.
However, in many cases time and again... Apple is the first to use any of their patented processes in an actual product, regardless of how stupid, vague and/or all-encompassing the patent is. That's their advantage, not necessarily the patents.
It's been said before, but again: their would be NO touch Smartphones, Tablets or Ultrabooks anywhere, without Apple leading the way first with their products.
A Funny fact: Apple was the very first company to integrate USB ports on their computers. They were the first to also NOT include them on a "computer", the iPad. It is now the Tech Geeks calling Apple idiots for dropping USB, when they probably wouldn't even have SCSI-2 yet if left to the other manufacturers.
Their always has to be a leader... and for +30 years, that has always been Apple.

There were tablets way before Apple released the iPad though. It's not like their design is particularly unique.