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post #121 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


Not any more. Apple now takes the first spot. No one is doing more to kill the idea of general computing. If Apple get their way kids will grow up without even having an expectation of running custom code on their locked down appliance.

 

huh? what appliance are you talking about?  anyone can run custom code on their Apple devices _today_. 

post #122 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Despite beating Wall Street expectations for the second calendar quarter of 2012, Microsoft on Thursday reported its first-ever quarterly loss since the software giant went public in 1986.
Microsoft's fiscal fourth-quarter contraction was in large part thanks to a huge multi-billion dollar write-down for its online services division compounded by deferred revenue related to the company's Windows 8 platform, reports The Wall Street Journal.
The Redmond, Wash., company posted a $492 million loss for the June quarter, or six cents per share. The poor performance is contrasted to the year ago period when Microsoft recorded a profit of $5.87 billion, or 69 cents per share.
Earnings were hit hard by a $6.19 billion write-down related to the company's acquisition of online ad agency aQuantive Inc. which was purchased for $6.3 billion in 2007. Compounding the situation was $540 million of deferred revenue earmarked for Windows 8 upgrade promotions. Microsoft is looking to keep Windows 7 sales going through October by offering buyers of select versions discounted upgrades to Windows 8 until the end of January 2013.
Not counting the write-down of its online services division and the deferred revenue connected to the Windows 8 promotion, Microsoft's earnings were actually in the black at 73 cents a share.
Windows 8
Microsoft took a hefty $540 million hit in deferred revenue for Windows 8 promotions.
Source: Microsoft

Overall revenue was up four percent at $18.06 billion for the quarter despite a 60 percent increase in operating costs. The most recent estimates from a poll conducted by Thomson Reuters pegged earnings at $18.13 billion or 62 cents a share.
Breaking down earnings by division, Microsoft's Windows and Windows Live posted a 13 percent decrease in revenue and an 18 percent drop in profits, once again owing to the deferred revenue.
Helping buoy earnings was Microsoft's entertainment and devices division, which saw a significant boost in sales with 20 percent jump year-over-year while online services revenue rose 8.1 percent. Server products, including enterprise network and private cloud computing systems, posted revenue gains of 13% on boosted profit of 24 percent.
Rounding out the revenue winners was the business division which includes Microsoft Office products with a 7.1 percent jump in sales leading to a 9 percent increase in profits.
Microsoft is banking on its "PC+" strategy, described as an ecosystem of devices running a one-size-fits-all operating system in Windows 8, to carry the company as competition heats up in the mobile space. Earlier in July, Microsoft claimed that Apple's "post-PC" era view of devices was wrong, claiming that the iPhone maker's notion to keep mobile and desktop operating systems separate was outdated. Instead, COO Kevin Turner said the future is a convergence of mobile, laptop and desktop devices under one OS, alluding to the presumed capabilities of Windows 8.
Surface 1
Microsoft is looking to kick-off the "PC+" era with its Surface tablet. | Source: Microsoft

For its part Apple still believes in making devices targeted to specific tasks. During the company's most recent quarterly earnings conference call in April, CEO Tim Cook said, "anything can be forced to converge, but the problem is that the products are about tradeoffs. You begin to make tradeoffs to the point where what you have left at the end of the day doesn't please anyone." He went on to quip, " "you can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but you know, those things are probably not going to be pleasing to the user."
As part of the PC+ initiative, Microsoft introduced its first self-branded tablet called Surface, with the ARM-based version of the device expected to be released alongside Windows 8 which was recently announced to hit shelves on October 26. Although PC+ calls for a completely defragmented ecosystem it seems Microsoft will be breaking that rule out of the gate with Surface for Windows RT, a tablet running a stripped-down version of Windows 8. A more full-featured Intel-based version dubbed Surface for Windows 8 Pro will be released later this year.
While the Redmond firm once had somewhat of a presence in smartphone market during the nascent pre-iPhone stage, Apple's iOS and Google's Android have made the sector a two horse race. Windows 8, along with Windows RT and Windows Phone, represents an opportunity to gain some lost ground in the lucrative portables arena though it remains to be seen whether the new OS will be enough gain substantial marketshare.
As of this writing Microsoft shares were up $0.65 or 2.14 percent in after market trading.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Don't worry. Many more are to follow. 

There 'IS' a God!

YAY!!!!!!!! Payback, finally, for my three years of bull**** under Windoze 95-98. I'd like to see this trend continue, and accelerate!

 

Sincerely,

Cameron

PS "I'd like all my money back, Bill!"

post #123 of 151
Bill Gates should shut down Microsoft and give the money to charity.
post #124 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post
Bill Gates should shut down Microsoft and give the money to charity.

 

Not even the shareholders… They don't deserve it, I guess. :lol:

 

OH. OH. OH. OH. WHAT. OH. WHAT. THE ONE EMOTICON THAT WE HAD WORKING IS BROKEN NOW? WHAT? HUH? IS THAT IT? lol.gif

So… So I can type ":lol:" and have it show up properly, but not in the new editor, where I have to… Ugh, I'm not… I don't even care. I don't care. 10.8's emoji all the way. I'm done.

 

🌆

post #125 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Agreed. They'll blame it on accounting this-and-that, but the bleeding has officially started. Windows 8 will be the floodgate.
Amazon will follow in a couple of years.

Huh?  This is very short sighted.  Microsoft has long been known to make significant investments that will not necessarily pay off in the immediate - look to XBox as an example.  They were selling this at a loss for how many years with the idea that they would get a foothold in the area and become more relavant.  WP7 was a real piece of crap, and their lack of upgrade support for WP8 is going to hurt them, but if they stick to their guns and continue to try and push the envelope, they will gain market eventually in both phones and tablets.  There's a definite market for windows based tablets that support all the Microsoft centric enterprise software that is essentially free up for grabs.  The Metro UI is very nice as well - although I have a very hard time agreeing with the one size fits all mentality their seem to be sticking to.  For at least the next two years, I'll be very much enjoying my iOS devices.

 

As for Amazon, are you just referring to specific products?  If this is the case, then yes, they may need to drop some products. 

 

Amazon is largely a service company at this point though, and in this regard, they are top in the world in what they do.  Amazon AWS alone is single handedly rewriting the rules of software and infrastructure for startups all the way up to enterprise.  They are very well ingrained into many fortune 50 companies already including companies you would never expect them to be in (very very large Microsoft shops - one example: a travel company started by Microsoft many years ago).

 

Most people have a hard time believing that Amazon is currently the worlds leading technology outlet simply because of AWS.  They truly have no competition in this area as Azure really isn't up to snuff yet, and what other cloud service hosts are there that don't actually use AWS in the backend?

 

There's more to business than just products and this is largely what Apple is currently - a product company.  This is slowly changing with the introduction of iCloud, but now Apple needs to stick by it.  Not give up in a few years the same way they did mac.com and mobile me.


Edited by mcbrided - 7/20/12 at 12:26pm
post #126 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

 

Apple has a couple hundred million on it's books when that deal happened; Microsoft did not bail out Apple.

Such comments remind me of the remark from Churchill-    "The French cannot forgive us because they owe us so much".

post #127 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrided View Post

Huh?  This is very short sighted.  Are you just referring to specific products?  If this is the case, then yes, they may need to drop some products. 

Amazon is largely a service company at this point though, and in this regard, they are top in the world in what they do.  Amazon AWS alone is single handedly rewriting the rules of software and infrastructure for startups all the way up to enterprise.  They are very well ingrained into many fortune 50 companies already including companies you would never expect them to be in (very very large Microsoft shops - one example: a travel company started by Microsoft many years ago).

Most people have a hard time believing that Amazon is currently the worlds leading technology outlet simply because of AWS.  They truly have no competition in this area as Azure really isn't up to snuff yet, and what other cloud service hosts are there that don't actually use AWS in the backend?

There's more to business than just products and this is largely what Apple is currently - a product company.  This is slowly changing with the introduction of iCloud, but now Apple needs to stick by it.  Not give up in a few years the same way they did mac.com and mobile me.

Amazon's future is probably going to be backed by their cloud stuff. Their diversification will save them, or in any case provide a decent platform to do whatever else they want to do.

As for Microsoft though, there's nothing on the horizon. Sharepoint, maybe. That's it. Game over. I agree with anantk... Windows 8 will be the final confirmation of the decrepitude into which Microsoft has now sunk, with no way out.
post #128 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post

Bill Gates should shut down Microsoft and give the money to charity.

 

 

 

 hmnnn.. at least it is nice to see the super rich trying to improve the lot of the less fortunate. Think what you will of Gates, he decided that had earned enough money to no longer obsess about the size of his bank balance. Its a shame that certain un-named people didn't subscribe to the same philopsy. Without philanthropists the (current) world would be a bleaker place.

 

If you need to hate Gates because he is responsible for a competing product then so be it. At least give him credit where it is due, or just be like many of the other members here that hold Appl shares and bitch whenever someone highlights exploitation in the supply chain

post #129 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jarse View Post

I love Mitchell and Webb. The snooker commentary is classic.

 

"And that's a bad miss" and Webb spoons sugar into his lager.

 Although M&W were happy to take the cheque (check) they also made a point of proving that they are not anyones's bitches

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvNMFl7Hec

post #130 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

 

 

Do you do any work with  either of these platforms?

 

I've heard both breathless stories about the greatness of the Strawberry Pi and reviews which indicate that it cannot run video smoothly.  both viewpoints are likely accurate.

 

I've also heard about x86 systems starting at $50.  

 

Do you see any trend towards ultra-cheap ultra-simple stripped-down hardware for general hobbyist use?  Are we entering a new age of computer experimentation by amateurs?  Will these platforms lead to anything in the future?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

I've played with an Arduino, it is a very fun platform for hobbyist use, and there is a pretty big (and growing) following. If you ever have a chance to get to a Makerfaire you can see pretty decent sized swarms of people using Arduinos or other stripped-down hardware for various hobbies. The tools for interfacing sensors and servos are a lot easier to use than they were even a few years ago, so I think we are entering a New Age - not sure if it will be a Golden Age, but certainly a lot of new possibilities.

post #131 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post



 hmnnn.. at least it is nice to see the super rich trying to improve the lot of the less fortunate. Think what you will of Gates, he decided that had earned enough money to no longer obsess about the size of his bank balance. Its a shame that certain un-named people didn't subscribe to the same philopsy. Without philanthropists the (current) world would be a bleaker place.

If you need to hate Gates because he is responsible for a competing product then so be it. At least give him credit where it is due, or just be like many of the other members here that hold Appl shares and bitch whenever someone highlights exploitation in the supply chain

Well that's why I have said repeatedly that Bill's greatest focus and greatest contribution would be to focus purely on his charitable activities. Since 2005 I do not see anything worthwhile that he has done in terms of leading Microsoft. I do not hate him as a person, but I think since 2005 he has made minimal contribution to humanity as Chairman or what not of Microsoft.

Charity work ~ yes that's good. But he might also be deluded to some degree, for example his musings and involvement with nuclear energy.

So charity or not, let's not think of Bill as any kind of superhuman. He is simply now a man that has done big things in his life, but Microsoft and technology is simply no longer anything he seems ~now~ to be able to contribute to, anymore.

And the above point is important, because the above has happened as far back as 2007 (see at All Things D vs Steve Jobs)... but most people do not realise the "senility" of Bill Gates in the tech & innovation space. I understand it is hard to accept, but for at least 5 years now this "senility" is clear as day to those that look past the shroud of infamy.
post #132 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

 

 

 

 hmnnn.. at least it is nice to see the super rich trying to improve the lot of the less fortunate. Think what you will of Gates, he decided that had earned enough money to no longer obsess about the size of his bank balance. Its a shame that certain un-named people didn't subscribe to the same philopsy. Without philanthropists the (current) world would be a bleaker place.

 

Steve Jobs went on to continue making great products that are a joy to use. 

 

The result of Billy's decision to no longer "obsess about the size of his bank balance":   Microsoft was left to stagnate under Ballmer, and is today the laughingstock of the industry. 

 

Thanks, Bill. 

 

Philanthropy doesn't give us iPads, iPhones, iOS, and Retina Macs. 

 

Yeah, I'm really friggin sure that MS fans/Windows sufferers were more than understanding that they had to wait over three years for a subpar mobile platform, among other things which MS half-assed since Gates' absence, and which MS fans and hapless users who had no choice had to stomach. Not to mention the Rise of Apple, which has pushed many a Windows user/fan over to the Apple ecosystem.

 

"Hey, no problem. That's ok. At least Bill's doing charity work."   LOL

 

 

(But hey, these things would have probably happened under Gates anyway. He wasn't exactly what you'd call visionary.)

 

What "Philanthropy" did for Microsoft:

 

http://macdailynews.com/2012/03/14/apple-now-worth-more-than-double-microsofts-market-value/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/05/12/oops-5-ceos-that-should-have-already-been-fired-cisco-ge-walmart-sears-microsoft/3/

 

And all of a sudden, Microsoft reaches the point where they feel they have to make *this* sad statement:

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151197/steve-ballmer-says-microsoft-plans-to-compete-with-apple-in-every-market


Edited by Quadra 610 - 7/20/12 at 1:40pm
post #133 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
 The Microsoft solution was a nightmare to administer and costly to maintain but without a viable alternative what are you supposed to do. 


That used to be true.  Microsoft's current enterprise options via Office 360 and the Action Starter Pack (horribly named) are actually quite attractive for small and mid-sized businesses.  It's hands-off, but customizable to license software and upgrade cheaply on or off the cloud.  It's not a new strategy, they just finally made it competitive a few years back when they were genuinely worried about the rise of Mac servers.

 

This is what I love and loathe about Apple: They strive to implement the ideal solution.  In this case, the perfect was the enemy of the good.  They were on track to implement a perfect solution, but held back releasing what would have been a sub-standard product at the time.  The funny part is, most of their clients (my company included) were prepared to make the jump and would have accepted a work-in-progress.  We're currently with MS for exchange, office, terminal server, etc. not just because it's the only viable option, but because just the threat of Apple competition forced them to price competitively and clean up their work.


Edited by Phion - 7/20/12 at 1:45pm
post #134 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Apple does not do low margins. The enterprise market will have to come to Apple.

 

And take what Apple is willing to give them. 

 

That's the beauty of Apple's game plan. They have stopped making things just for enterprise to a great deal. The companies find a way to make the consumer products work or they go to another company. Apple really doesn't care. At least not enough to make something just for those groups if it isn't of benefit to the larger marketplace

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #135 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post

After a announcement of halting Mac office sales, 

 

They never said they were halting Office for Mac. They just said they have no information about a 2013 release at this time

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #136 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


You may want to pull your head out of the sand and do a little research. I know you hate anything not Apple but Google is your friend. News flash, you do not walk away with a cross licensing if what you say is true.

 

you do if that's what the parties agree to. Microsoft needed that code and was willing to pay for it after the slap down. The investment etc was the form of payment Apple agreed to take as was their legal power. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #137 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


When you have someone "over a barrel" you do not offer joint licensing. Keep dreaming, you make way to many assumptions in your post. Considering you are not Bill Gates, kind of hard to speak on his behalf.

 

Again, maybe YOU don't. But you are not and have never run Apple. They do what they want or think is best. Regardless of what YOU think they should. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #138 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post


I do not want Microsoft to go away. Humiliated and made into Apple's bitch, of course. But MS and Apple are yin and yang. Their competition is what gave us iMac, iPod, iPhone, OS X. An Apple monopoly would be boring and futile.

 

Apple likely doesn't want them to either. At least not anytime soon. Because without Microsoft who would be the competitor to keep Apple from taking over as the monopoly in the market and thus under suspicion for everything they do as anti-trust. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #139 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

 I guess that you subscribe to the Job's view that charity is a waste of time.

 

I for one am glad that Apple has ditched this bah-humbugesque philosophy, deciding that making donations is the morally right thing to do.

 

http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/02/apple-charity-efforts/

post #140 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Apple likely doesn't want them to either. At least not anytime soon. Because without Microsoft who would be the competitor to keep Apple from taking over as the monopoly in the market and thus under suspicion for everything they do as anti-trust. 

 You make a good point. If Apple's rise had been 5 years earlier MS wouldn't have had all the bru-ha-ha with the EU about browsers, for example.

post #141 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post


Microsoft invested in apple and declared future support to its mac office suite to instill confidence not only to investors but users as well. Did this save apple? Most will argue yes. Others don't

Well, considering MSFT as we know it would not exist today without Apple, we can consider it evening the score. If the software patent laws weren't so crude when the Mac was introduced, MSFT would be a much different company today, if they had ever become relevant to begin with.

post #142 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Steve Jobs went on to continue making great products that are a joy to use. 

 

The result of Billy's decision to no longer "obsess about the size of his bank balance":   Microsoft was left to stagnate under Ballmer, and is today the laughingstock of the industry. 

 

Thanks, Bill. 

 

Philanthropy doesn't give us iPads, iPhones, iOS, and Retina Macs. 

 

Yeah, I'm really friggin sure that MS fans/Windows sufferers were more than understanding that they had to wait over three years for a subpar mobile platform, among other things which MS half-assed since Gates' absence, and which MS fans and hapless users who had no choice had to stomach. Not to mention the Rise of Apple, which has pushed many a Windows user/fan over to the Apple ecosystem.

 

"Hey, no problem. That's ok. At least Bill's doing charity work."   LOL

 

 

(But hey, these things would have probably happened under Gates anyway. He wasn't exactly what you'd call visionary.)

 

What "Philanthropy" did for Microsoft:

 

http://macdailynews.com/2012/03/14/apple-now-worth-more-than-double-microsofts-market-value/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/05/12/oops-5-ceos-that-should-have-already-been-fired-cisco-ge-walmart-sears-microsoft/3/

 

And all of a sudden, Microsoft reaches the point where they feel they have to make *this* sad statement:

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151197/steve-ballmer-says-microsoft-plans-to-compete-with-apple-in-every-market

 



....compete-with-apple-in-every-market..... except those where one has to "think different".lol.gif

post #143 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

Oh bullshit! The Mac was still entrenched in the graphic arts, desktop publishing, and advertising markets. 

So was the Commodore Amiga in 1990.

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #144 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sr2012 View Post


Amazon's future is probably going to be backed by their cloud stuff. Their diversification will save them, or in any case provide a decent platform to do whatever else they want to do.
As for Microsoft though, there's nothing on the horizon. Sharepoint, maybe. That's it. Game over. I agree with anantk... Windows 8 will be the final confirmation of the decrepitude into which Microsoft has now sunk, with no way out.

 

Not at all.  If anything, Microsoft will de-emphasize Sharepoint and it's related services and focus heavily on it's cloud apps.  Cloud based office will be used by everyone, including iPad users, even if only because they will be forced to if they want to get work done.  There simply are no competitors in this area.  My emphasis here is on enterprise management systems and support.  Microsoft has a ton on the horizon, just not stuff that every normal consumer will want to use.

 

Check back 2 years from now when Windows 8 is well into it's lifetime and includes at least 1 service pack.  There's no argument that W8 is a drastic change from what is standard.  I suspect it will be similar to Windows XP though in which it was impossible to hate it anymore upon release, and then beloved when users get used to it.  Microsoft does very /very/ few things right.  The stuff they do right though, they do it very well.

post #145 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrided View Post

Not at all.  If anything, Microsoft will de-emphasize Sharepoint and it's related services and focus heavily on it's cloud apps.  Cloud based office will be used by everyone, including iPad users, even if only because they will be forced to if they want to get work done.  There simply are no competitors in this area.  My emphasis here is on enterprise management systems and support.  Microsoft has a ton on the horizon, just not stuff that every normal consumer will want to use.

Check back 2 years from now when Windows 8 is well into it's lifetime and includes at least 1 service pack.  There's no argument that W8 is a drastic change from what is standard.  I suspect it will be similar to Windows XP though in which it was impossible to hate it anymore upon release, and then beloved when users get used to it.  Microsoft does very /very/ few things right.  The stuff they do right though, they do it very well.

Microsoft Office cloud will save them? Not sure on that. W8 drastic change? Not sure on that too. Microsoft is toast. It's just that when a behemoth is breathing its last few breaths it seems like it is still alive.
post #146 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
 You make a good point. If Apple's rise had been 5 years earlier MS wouldn't have had all the bru-ha-ha with the EU about browsers, for example.

 

That brouhaha would have happened anyway, since Apple didn't actually rise in marketshare appreciably in those five years. Gates was saying in '99 "we have competition out there", but that was a blatant lie.

post #147 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That brouhaha would have happened anyway, since Apple didn't actually rise in marketshare appreciably in those five years. Gates was saying in '99 "we have competition out there", but that was a blatant lie.

thanks. Tbh I didn't realize that case started in 1999, regardless without Microsoft (or someone else) that kind of scrutiny would apply to apple and safari.

post #148 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
thanks. Tbh I didn't realize that case started in 1999, regardless without Microsoft (or someone else) that kind of scrutiny would apply to apple and safari.

 

Actually, I think the EU case was first proposed in '94 but brought up in 2004… Seems I'm reading about the US case, and in looking up the EU case, the dates matched up. Whoops.

 

I have a Time Magazine interview with Bill Gates from '99 sitting here on my desk (that I've torn out and was going to scan); that's the only reason I knew that. lol.gif

 

Incidentally, the interview was conducted by Walter Issacson…

post #149 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Actually, I think the EU case was first proposed in '94 but brought up in 2004… Seems I'm reading about the US case, and in looking up the EU case, the dates matched up. Whoops.

 

I have a Time Magazine interview with Bill Gates from '99 sitting here on my desk (that I've torn out and was going to scan); that's the only reason I knew that. lol.gif

 

Incidentally, the interview was conducted by Walter Issacson…

 Ok, now you are starting to scare me :) 

 

Interesting hobby you have...

post #150 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
Ok, now you are starting to scare me :) 

 

Interesting hobby you have...

 

I'm chucking out any old magazines I have, but I'm flipping through them for the stories I kept them for in the first place. I'm tearing out those pages, throwing away the magazine, scanning the pages, and then throwing the pages away.

 

I found a review of the first iPod and and the G4 Cube so far. How blind they both were.

post #151 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That brouhaha would have happened anyway, since Apple didn't actually rise in marketshare appreciably in those five years. Gates was saying in '99 "we have competition out there", but that was a blatant lie.

Gates peaked circa WinXP2, Xbox360.
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