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Inside OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion GM: Go Full Screen on any display - Page 2

post #41 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommentSF View Post
Thanks! I just copied and pasted over there. I do hope they listen

 

As do I. I'd love full-screening to operate properly (because while this is certainly consciously intended, it's not proper) for multi-display users.

 

I'd actually like full-screening to not create its own Spaces at all. For example, I already run iTunes taking up an entire Space, and I'd love to just full screen it properly to clear away all clutter, but it screws with my Space ordering, and I can't have that.

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post #42 of 86

700

post #43 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana Bonanza View Post

BTW: What's up with this forum software? It overrides right click with a custom "Paste" option, which then tells me it isn't allowed to paste in the first place. Wow. Just let the browser do its own menus...

I know. This forum software was designed by folks that seem to think they know better than other forum software, but it really falls flat on its face on too many things.

Quoting SolipsismX's signature: "Do you wish to use the old forum editor? Choose Preferences toward the top of the page, look for Preferred Editor Type at the bottom of the window, and choose BB Code Editor."

I've yet to notice any improvements to the Huddler system since they started. You'd think they would be trying to make it better due to feedback, several improvement requests are quite simple to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Imagine relying on a button to do almost anything on your computer. That button is gone. The functionality is still there, but it looks completely different and is used differently.

That's a pretty major issue in my opinion. You'll be treated like a kid on Engadget, etc. for pointing out that problem too. What's worse is that taking away that button is completely unnecessary. You have that button be central part of your UI for 17 years and then just take it away? I don't see that going well with consumers.

I understand some of the merits of the start menu screen, but its implementation is disorienting.

Quote:
And half of it is on the other side of the screen where you'd never think to look for it.

I have a hard time getting that slide-out panel on the right hand side working in a virtualization window. Maybe I can trigger it 20% of the time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosford View Post

Mac fan boys are all oh windows this and windows dat.. and Mac OS is oh so great...but these problems that mac having are already implemented in almost every windows OS. Ok, so im use to having 2 monitors running different programs at the same time in windows. VLC on one watching movie and the other have google chrome so I can monitor ma email/facebook.

I have not seen where the Windows system is better on this. When I try to use full screen video my Windows computer with two monitors, any click on the other screen breaks the app on the first screen out of full screen. VLC is an outlier that breaks a lot of OS user interface conventions on Windows and OS X, so I wouldn't use VLC behavior as an indicator of general behavior of the OS.
Edited by JeffDM - 7/21/12 at 9:27pm
post #44 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

If Mountain Lion has evolved into something troubling with it's full screen implementation (and I personally dislike what OSX is becoming), I can't imagine the agonizing mess Win 8 has become.

 

 

I have no idea in Win8, but with 7 multiscreen stuff works fine with fullscreen.

 

I can, for example, run VLC fullscreen on the big TV using HDMI, while using the screen on the laptop as normal.  There are options allowing you to mirror the desktop, extend it, or use the second monitor as a separate screen altogether.

 

I was surprised to learn that OSX has such problems with full screen views.

post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I've yet to notice any improvements to the Huddler system since they started. You'd think they would be trying to make it better due to feedback, several improvement requests are quite simple to make.

I like the embedded YouTube videos and the ability to upload a photo instead of first sending it to my Flickr account but there are just so many niggling issues that it just seems the site admins don't care about the usability or retaining forum commenters.

I know some things could be complex, perhaps like removing the Reply button from showing up in every post so threads and quotes stay congruent or making the features work with iOS; but some things like adding the emoticons icons back so we don't see squares with question marks in them, or by changing the AppleInsider image link at the top to take you back to the top domain instead of just to the list of general forum sections.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Patterson View Post

I agree with this sentiment entirely. I've used Mac OS since OS 6 (on a Mac Classic) and I've used OS X since 10.1 (on a G3 iMac) and this is the most infuriating design flaw I've ever come across in an Apple OS. I love the concept of full-screen apps when my MacBook Pro is cut free, but hate the implementation when connected to an external display - what's the point in having multiple monitors if only one of those monitors is actually useful? Whoever at Apple thought that the current behaviour is the most elegant solution to full-screen apps on a multi-monitor system has their head to far up their own ass to be able to see properly.
post #47 of 86

I just don't understand the move towards full screen apps on the desktop. The development of a windowed environment (pushed by Apple no less) was one of the great breakthroughs in UI design, allowing people to see multiple applications and windows at the same time. It was revolutionary.

 

Full screen makes sense on basic devices such as iPads, but on full blown computers? Not a chance, and the total failure of making this broken concept work on dual monitor set-ups (something which is standard in many industries) is further proof.   Apple and Microsoft, - both are pushing this idiotic trend - need to remember what kind of people use computers. We want power and performance and we're intelligent enough to not need everything dumbing down to giant coloured buttons or full screen applications.

post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I just don't understand the move towards full screen apps on the desktop. The development of a windowed environment (pushed by Apple no less) was one of the great breakthroughs in UI design, allowing people to see multiple applications and windows at the same time. It was revolutionary.

Full screen makes sense on basic devices such as iPads, but on full blown computers? Not a chance, and the total failure of making this broken concept work on dual monitor set-ups (something which is standard in many industries) is further proof.   Apple and Microsoft, - both are pushing this idiotic trend - need to remember what kind of people use computers. We want power and performance and we're intelligent enough to not need everything dumbing down to giant coloured buttons or full screen applications.

There are plenty of apps that can benefit from fullscreen. I use it quite often for some app but not all time for any app. Remember that there are still one or more Spaces that can have an innumerable number of windows on the screen. If Apple was taking away the ability to have anything but a fullscreen app the way it makes sense in iOS then I'd understand your position.

The other point being made here I do agree with, and I assume has to be a bug, is this disabling of any other display in use when a single app goes fullscreen. That simply makes no sense from a usability standpoint.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #49 of 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


There are plenty of apps that can benefit from fullscreen. I use it quite often for some app but not all time for any app. Remember that there are still one or more Spaces that can have an innumerable number of windows on the screen. If Apple was taking away the ability to have anything but a fullscreen app the way it makes sense in iOS then I'd understand your position.
The other point being made here I do agree with, and I assume has to be a bug, is this disabling of any other display in use when a single app goes fullscreen. That simply makes no sense from a usability standpoint.

 

I don't think its a bug.

Think back to the WWDC when Lion was announced. Even Apple said it was for small screen laptop computers to make better use of screen real-estate. In applications like Excel, its a brilliant idea. On a desktop, or a laptop with connected displays, why would you ever use it?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedicivalvole View Post


Sadly, he is not wrong though is he.
It is a real shame. It is unlikely to hurt Apple at all as they are so far ahead of Windows. But it would be nice if they would stop with all the stripping out of OSX.
The situation almost calls for and OS X Pro. Still X / X Server 10.6.8 will do for a good while yet in most enterprise / business environments.

I still don't see how OSX 10.7/8 is any less "Pro" than previous incarnations. If you don't like the iOS-style features, then don't use them! Viola! Problem solved!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It sucks that they no has the Single UNIX Specification 3 (SUSv3)¡ They've also removed the Utilities folder from /Applications and there is no way to add your new apps, everything has to go through the Mac App Store, unless someone finds a way to jailbreak their Mac¡ If this keeps up the next version of Xcode to develop Mac and iOS apps will be Windows program¡

They haven't removed the utilities folder: its been renamed to "Other" and, in my eyes, that makes more sense. Not everything in that folder can be considered a utility - in-fact, a fair few things in there should really be in a folder called "System", such as the terminal, and some things should really be in system preferences or the Apple Menu , such as the Audio MIDI Setup.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Wanna know what the WOW factor is? It's beginning to be about what was NOT included in OS X. 

 

Like this:

 

 

1000

 

 

WOW. OS X *doesn't* look like psychedelic clown vomit.

 

 

I also likened it to vomit. I'm to glad to see that someone else thinks the same.

post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Patterson View Post


LOL, this says it all. Now an option to do this might have a use once in a while but it should be an option. The default should be any screen can have a full screen app itself if the app were on that screen when you clicked full screen mode. This should have zero effect on any other screen that is connected. So in this photograph all three screens should be able to have a different full screen app running simultaneously. Come on Apple this is very UN Apple like as it is.
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post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike54 View Post

I also likened it to vomit. I'm to glad to see that someone else thinks the same.

Yes! I knew it rang a bell ... It's small pieces of carrot with peas ..... After a night drinking ... Memories from student days ...
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post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

I don't think its a bug.



Think back to the WWDC when Lion was announced. Even Apple said it was for small screen laptop computers to make better use of screen real-estate. In applications like Excel, its a brilliant idea. On a desktop, or a laptop with connected displays, why would you ever use it?



> Aperture full screen on large screen can be awesome. I'm sure there are many other examples.

I still don't see how OSX 10.7/8 is any less "Pro" than previous incarnations. If you don't like the iOS-style features, then don't use them! Viola! Problem solved!



> What little I've used of the GM I'd say it is even more professional.

 



They haven't removed the utilities folder: its been renamed to "Other" and, in my eyes, that makes more sense. Not everything in that folder can be considered a utility - in-fact, a fair few things in there should really be in a folder called "System", such as the terminal, and some things should really be in system preferences or the Apple Menu , such as the Audio MIDI Setup.



> Thanks, good to know, I totally missed that. UPdate: I just checked ... in ML GM Utilities is still called Utilities on the Mac I am looking at ... what are you guys smoking?

Edited by digitalclips - 7/22/12 at 6:14am
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post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It sucks that they no has the Single UNIX Specification 3 (SUSv3)¡ They've also removed the Utilities folder from /Applications and there is no way to add your new apps, everything has to go through the Mac App Store, unless someone finds a way to jailbreak their Mac¡ If this keeps up the next version of Xcode to develop Mac and iOS apps will be Windows program¡

Utilities is still there in the GM I am looking at and it isn't renamed Other as suggested elsewhere in this thread. Is your install corrupt maybe? Also I can add new apps anyway I like unless of course you are meaning if the vendor only sells via Apple.
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post #55 of 86

Hi all,

 

I agree full screen is broken with multiple displays and this doesn't appear to fully fix it, but there are a few points that you may have missed:

 

- Parallels DOES currently support multiple displays in full screen mode. (You have to enable it in settings) but once you do then you switch to the "Parallels Space" then both displays are available - I use mine as if I had a Windows PC with an extended desktop.

 

- To me this means right now all applications could use the gray linen screen if designed to use it...however it acts as a single space that BOTH change when shifting spaces, which is not ideal. So...

 

What I would like to see is to have the extra display(s) just act as another space, so for example

you have 6 spaces:

 

Single Screen mode:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6

1 - 2 - x - 4 - 5 - 6   <- Under normal single screen mode, 1 space "x" is active.

1 - 2 - 3 - x - 5 - 6   <- as you scroll through the spaces left right, active space moves.

 

With dual displays, the active spaces should just be 2 adjacent spaces (by default):

1 - 2 - x - x - 5 - 6  <- Under default dual screen mode, 2 spaces "x" in 3 and 4 are active.

1 - 2 - 3 - x - x - 6   <- as you scroll through the spaces to the right, both spaces move over, in this case space #3 disappears, #4 shifts to the left display, and #5 appears in the right display.

 

If you need to move spaces from one display to the other, simply reorder them in the spaces list as you do now.

 

This is what I'd like to see Apple!

 

-Chris

post #56 of 86

I just submitted a radar report for this via Apple's bug reporter and also used the feedback link.
 

I hope someone at Apple listens.

post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Utilities is still there in the GM I am looking at and it isn't renamed Other as suggested elsewhere in this thread. Is your install corrupt maybe? Also I can add new apps anyway I like unless of course you are meaning if the vendor only sells via Apple.

My entire comment is sarcastic hyperbole addressing the silly comments about Mac OS being "dumbed down" and that real users will clamor for Snow Leopard.

I need to find a more effective way to express sarcasm.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
My entire comment is sarcastic hyperbole addressing the silly comments about Mac OS being "dumbed down" and that real users will clamor for Snow Leopard.
I need to find a more effective way to express sarcasm.

 

I like deep red and italics (for bleeding sarcasm), but then you have to put in your signature what that means. 


Your way of doing it is best, though. It's not your fault that the punctuation isn't rendered correctly (legally within the standard-ly?) in some fonts.

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post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I like deep red and italics (for bleeding sarcasm), but then you have to put in your signature what that means. 


Your way of doing it is best, though. It's not your fault that the punctuation isn't rendered correctly (legally within the standard-ly?) in some fonts.

I do want my points to be as clear as possible for the reader so I do consider that my problem. As you know, my use of the Temherte Slaqî was my attempt at using punctuation show irony when there was previously none. Unfortunately it's been mostly as effective as not using any such punctuation.

I think I've used it on this forum for about 4 years now. I'm calling it a failed experiment. Time to consider something else. I'm not keen on the text color because that limits it to richtext environment. Even italics can an issue if saw you're posting on Twitter. For those reasons it has to be a character but it has to be one that is common ASCII but used in a way that obviously stands out. I had thought the upside down exclamation point at the end would suffice as common to all systems but I can see hot it just might be a type of a lower case 'I' at the end of a sentence.

How about the tilde (~) before and after a word, sentence or paragraph to make it clear that the included section is ironic or sarcastic?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
For those reasons it has to be a character but it has to be one that is common ASCII but used in a way that obviously stands out.

 

What about the irony/sarcasm mark? It's probably not common, but it's a proper character. ؟

 

Okay, it… looks really weird (read: completely and utterly wrong) using Huddler's standard font. That's nice. Here's a better-looking one: 

 

Quote:
How about the tilde (~) before and after a word, sentence or paragraph to make it clear that the included section is ironic or sarcastic?

 

~Oh yeah, that's going to work.~

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post #61 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What about the irony/sarcasm mark? It's probably not common, but it's a proper character. ؟

Okay, it… looks really weird (read: completely and utterly wrong) using Huddler's standard font. That's nice. Here's a better-looking one: 
One problem with that character is that it's Unicode-only. Another is that's it's first use, which I agree with, is that it's better as a function of a rhetorically asked question.

I liked the ( ¡ ) because it was a defined irony mark in an Ethipoian language, it was common in Spanish and even though not ASCII it is standard in ISO, Unicode and HTML, only used at the beginning of Spanish sentences so there wouldn't be confusion of its usage, and easy to execute in any OS.
Quote:
~Oh yeah, that's going to work.~
😷

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post #62 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

My entire comment is sarcastic hyperbole addressing the silly comments about Mac OS being "dumbed down" and that real users will clamor for Snow Leopard.
I need to find a more effective way to express sarcasm.

Sorry, it's that tiny mark you use, it simply isn't visible under normal conditions maybe a space before it would help. I thought your handle had been hijacked! Lol
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post #63 of 86
I have my Macbook Pro 15" directly connected to a 28" monitor and a second 19" via USB. I use SecondBar to add a menubar to the 28" which is my working monitor. 
 
In addition, I use Quickeys to switch and set application windows from one monitor to the other two up to their respective maximum screen sizes. Thus, unlike OS X's Full Screen mode, I can view the application's menu bars in at least the Macbook Pro's 15" and the 28" screens while I work on the active document.
 
Right now, I am seriously considering Multimon, which according to their promo offers:
 
Quote:
Multimon by Delve Systems
☑ Multiple menu bars on any number of screens.
☑ Advanced window management for quickly dealing with multiple windows.
☑ Automatic window resizing for monitors of different sizes.
☑ Customizable hotkeys for quick management of your monitors. 

Obviously, having a menubar on the third monitor would be a great feature.

 

And if it works as well as they profess in Mountain Lion, I won't hesitate to get it.

post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Sorry, it's that tiny mark you use, it simply isn't visible under normal conditions maybe a space before it would help. I thought your handle had been hijacked! Lol


I could use ¡ but that would just be obnoxious. I prefer to be helpful, insightful, and/or entertaining, but not obnoxious.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
I could use ¡ but that would just be obnoxious. I prefer to be helpful, insightful, and/or entertaining, but not obnoxious.

 

Ah! What about… no, that won't work. I was going to say pick an emoji, since everyone's moving to Mountain/Lion, but you want a standard character… 

 

🎩 💬

😒

👕

👖

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post #66 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I could use ¡ but that would just be obnoxious. I prefer to be helpful, insightful, and/or entertaining, but not obnoxious.

I'll stick with /s for now ... But I thought your big one was a vast improvement /smile
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post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post


In Apple's opinion, this is like turn-of-the-century consumers telling Henry Ford that they "would like to see"  a faster horse.

Apple provides the solution that it knows is best.  They do not ask consumers what they want.  

A brilliant strategy. If you've got the right people implementing it.
post #68 of 86

Primarily, why I miss this is that I would run a video podcast (from twit.tv mostly) in fullscreen on my secondary monitor while continuing to work on my primary monitor.

post #69 of 86
Am I reading that correctly? The second screen will always go blank, and you can't stop that?

I use two monitors all the time, and I often full screen one app on one monitor while working normally on the other. If one of the screens really will go black, I seriously can't use the OS. It's starting to be a broken record, but it's infuriating that Apple always insists on removing an important feature to make way for one that's mostly useless but looks cool.
post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post
Am I reading that correctly? The second screen will always go blank, and you can't stop that?
I use two monitors all the time, and I often full screen one app on one monitor while working normally on the other. If one of the screens really will go black, I seriously can't use the OS. It's starting to be a broken record, but it's infuriating that Apple always insists on removing an important feature to make way for one that's mostly useless but looks cool.

 

Except no features are being removed.

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post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Am I reading that correctly? The second screen will always go blank, and you can't stop that?
I use two monitors all the time, and I often full screen one app on one monitor while working normally on the other. If one of the screens really will go black, I seriously can't use the OS. It's starting to be a broken record, but it's infuriating that Apple always insists on removing an important feature to make way for one that's mostly useless but looks cool.

In the apps that implement fullscreen mode in the way that is the default set by the OS. But those apps either did not have fullscreen mode before Lion or they did behave already like this before Lion.
 

Thus, almost by definition, if you use applications in fullscreen mode that don't blank the second monitor now, they won't do so in Mountain Lion. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about.

post #72 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

almost by definition, if you use applications in fullscreen mode that don't blank the second monitor now, they won't do so in Mountain Lion. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about.

That's not so bad. There are only certain apps I'd ever use in fullscreen anyway.
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

No… he is… hence the remark about FUD in the first place… 

 

Sigh, I wish people would actually start using the term FUD correctly...

post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post
Sigh, I wish people would actually start using the term FUD correctly...

 

Sorry, I'll try to remember that.

 

700

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post #75 of 86
Found a couple of Apps that offer full screen without losing the menubar.
  1. Optimal Layout
  2. Moom

 

Both have trial versions available.

Optimal Layout is quite comprehensive, while Moom is much simpler, it is cheaper as well.

 

Neither provides additional menu bars which I understand Multimon does. Unfortunatel Multimon does not provide a trial version.

 

In any event, I can use Quickeys to even further automate my programme settings, e.g., move the application's windows to a particular monitor.

post #76 of 86

I prefer using a combination of MegaZoomer and Cinch versus Apple's implementation of full screen mode. Both are a lot more flexible and work on multiple displays. 

 

Not sure why Apple didn't just go this route.

post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

I prefer using a combination of MegaZoomer and Cinch versus Apple's implementation of full screen mode. Both are a lot more flexible and work on multiple displays. 

 

Not sure why Apple didn't just go this route.

I hesitate to use SIMBL-based bundle apps, Cinch is too limited and both problematic and/or complicating in our multi-monitor based environment. One set of three, but with four clusters it is just to too daunting to control comfortably and one I don't have time to babysit.

 

P.S. Tried them both out a couple of year(s?) ago. Issues arose every time I upgraded the OS, especially with Leopard and Snow Leopard. Not sure how well they work in Lion or now Mountain Lion and am not willing to step back.  

post #78 of 86
Maybe someone already said this and I missed it but I do have VMWare full screen in Mountain Lion without my other screen blanking and remaining totally usable. Mountain Lion Server is running full screen on my MBP's 15" in a VM while I have Mountain Lion full screen on my LED Apple external monitor. So there may be other apps that can do this and perhaps all will soon or at least have the option..
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #79 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

No… he is… hence the remark about FUD in the first place… 

 

 

Nothing is being stripped out. They've added functionality, some would say partial, that had never been in OS X previously at all.

 

No. I don't think I'm wrong. Feel free to show me I am, though, if you can.

 

Right now (under Snow Leopard) full screen on Aperture works fine. All the various things going on within the other displays keep going on, and I can continue to work. Under the new OS, full screen blanks five of the six displays. I'd say that qualifies as something "taken away", such as 5/6ths of my working area. Right now, I can start any app, and I don't have to worry about the OS mothering me about it -- no sandbox, no certificates -- although at this point (again, Snow Leopard) it's annoying about downloaded content. Yeah, I want to start the app, that's why I downloaded it, you idiots. Under the new OS, it will begin making starting new apps more annoying, in a very hand-holdy, yet highly inappropriate way -- trusting apps from the app store, but not from Joe Developer. I'd say that counts as both "dumbing down" and "needless classism." Instead of letting the user manage the machine and fixing the actual vulnerabilities in the OS, Apple has elected to begin erecting a wall between apps in its store and apps from independent developers. Which I suspect is going to get higher and harder to cross as the OS continues to degrade, but that's a different subject, and not my problem anyway as I'm not planning on going there.

 

And of course, as per usual, Apple is marching off into the sunset, leaving the broken parts of OSX they never got right -- like UDP sockets and the buggy color matching system under Snow Leopard, the spewing of console messages from cron under Leopard -- unfixed in those versions (even though they are on record as having promised to fix them.) It'd be fine if they fixed them in the new OS, if the new OS was as usable as the old OS, but it appears that it isn't. Heck, it's to the point where we have to depend on third parties to find the bugs and patch them (cron fix, for instance, was done outside Apple -- by me.)

 

So, where's the FUD? You telling me that the new OS will NOT be annoying about new apps? You telling me that full screen mode works just like it used to and I can continue working on all my monitors? You telling me they are going to fix those things in Leopard and Snow Leopard?

 

Over to you, Tallest Skil.

post #80 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyngyrz View Post
Right now (under Snow Leopard) full screen on Aperture works fine.

 

You don't have .7/.8's full screen in Snow Leopard. You have individual applications with their own interpretation thereof. Full Screen in Mountain/Lion isn't the same thing. It's new, partial, functionality.

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