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Apple, Google appeal dismissal of Apple v. Motorola suit

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Both Apple and Google on Friday filed appeals to Judge Richard Posner's June decision to dismiss Apple v. Motorola, a case that has been in litigation since 2010.

The expected move will take Apple's suit to the Federal Circuit, which FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller notes is seen as being partial to patent-holders and may likely reverse some of Judge Posner's ruling.

Mueller said that "given the large number of claims at issue in that action and the fact that the Federal Circuit reverses at last part of an appealed ruling in more than 40% of all cases, it would be a statistical anomaly if each and every one of Judge Posner's decisions was affirmed."

While the highly-esteemed Judge Posner is an expert in antitrust law, he is in actuality an appellate judge and volunteered to preside over the Apple v. Motorola trial case "by designation" because he "enjoys" patent cases.

According to Mueller, both Apple and Google are opposing every ruing that was not in their respective favor.

US Appeals Court
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. | Source: U.S. Courts


Apple's filing appeals:

1. those portions of the Court's summary judgment and claim construction orders that were adverse to Apple (including without limitation Dkt. Nos. 176, 526, 556, 671, 691, 706, 724, 751, 767, 826 and 1005);

2. those portions of the Court's evidentiary orders (including without limitation Dkt. Nos. 960 and 980) that were adverse to Apple in excluding certain evidence Apple intended to offer;

3. those portions of the Court's May 22, 2012 Opinion and Order adverse to Apple in which the Court struck Apple's damages expert and underlying damages theories (Dkt. No. 956); and

4. those portions of the Court's June 22, 2012 Opinion and Order adverse to Apple granting summary judgment against Apple as it relates to (1) Apple?s damages theories and (2) Apple?s entitlement to an injunction with respect to the Apple patents (Dkt. No. 1038).


Google and its subsidiary Motorola appeal:

1. those portions of the Court's summary judgment and claim construction orders that were adverse to Motorola (including without limitation Order of May 20, 2012 not appearing on the docket and Dkt. Nos. 176, 526, 556, 671, 691, 751, 747, 767, 826, 1005, 1038);

2. those portions of the Court's evidentiary orders (including without limitation Dkt. Nos. 771, 747, 803, 830, 900, 958, 956, 980) that were adverse to Motorola in excluding certain evidence Motorola intended to offer or in precluding Motorola from supplementing its expert reports or record evidence;

4. the Court's order denying Motorola's motion to dismiss or transfer this case (including without limitation Dkt. Nos. 66);

5. those portions of the Court's May 22, 2012 Opinion and Order adverse to Motorola in which the Court struck Motorola's damages expert and underlying damages theories (Dkt. No. 956); and

6. those portions of the Court's June 22, 2012 Opinion and Order adverse to Motorola granting summary judgment against Motorola as it relates to (1) Motorola's damages theories and (2) Motorola's entitlement to an injunction with respect to the Motorola patents (Dkt. No. 1038).


Judge Posner temporarily canceled Apple's trial in early June but decided to rehear the case two weeks later. In the follow-up hearing Apple once again sought an injunction against certain Motorola handsets that allegedly infringed on four patents regarding heuristics, UI elements and wireless technology.

Apple's case was in response to Motorola's own patent claims against the iPhone maker concerning certain wireless technology.

In Friday's appeals, both parties argued that a judgment should be handed down as required by law but the filings could instead result in separate trial cases for any or all of the highlighted issues.
post #2 of 47

"Wow. Look at all those numbers and points. Apple needs to stop litigating and start innovating. They're clogging up the court system with this stuff, and you know, it's not even theirs. Google did it first It's stuff that will be declared FRAND Apple just wants a monopoly Consumers are tired of these lawsuits Apple's afraid of competition…"

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #3 of 47

Wait, is this the 3G patent case?

 

 


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post #4 of 47

Wow.  I would love to have 10% of all the legal fees as a monthly income.  LOL.

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post #5 of 47

My goodness, Android fanatics (believe it or not, there actually are such creatures) will literally die of spontaneous human combustion if Posner's ruling is overturned. I'll be standing by with a can of lighter fluid.

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GOA

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post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Wow. Look at all those numbers and points. Apple needs to stop litigating and start innovating. They're clogging up the court system with this stuff, and you know, it's not even theirs. Google did it first It's stuff that will be declared FRAND Apple just wants a monopoly Consumers are tired of these lawsuits Apple's afraid of competition…"

 

Hee, hee! Let it be stricken from the record, one line at a time.

 

Also, I'd like to recommend Judge Posner retire from the bench permanently. Have a nice vacation, judge!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
My goodness, Android fanatics (believe it or not, there actually are such creatures) will literally die of spontaneous human combustion if Posner's ruling is overturned. I'll be standing by with a can of lighter fluid.

 

I'd sort of like spontaneous human combustion to be proven true; I'd like to have it not be spontaneous and be able to set my leg ablaze whenever I wanted (get out of meetings and such). Catch it early enough and it's just first-degree burns, which aren't as big a deal. 

 

But burning them yourself sort of cuts out the spontaneity…

 

📱😱🔥💀

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I'd sort of like spontaneous human combustion to be proven true; I'd like to have it not be spontaneous and be able to set my leg ablaze whenever I wanted (get out of meetings and such). Catch it early enough and it's just first-degree burns, which aren't as big a deal. 

 

But burning them yourself sort of cuts out the spontaneity…

 

📱😱🔥💀

 

The lighter fluid is to be used after Android suffers a string of crushing courtroom defeats. I reckon the fires will be self-made.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #9 of 47
Now that Google is appealing to dismissal of this court case will GatorGuy finally acknowledge that Google is controlling Motorola's court cases?

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post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Now that Google is appealing to dismissal of this court case will GatorGuy finally acknowledge that Google is controlling Motorola's court cases?

 

Probably not.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by This page right here, hey, click the link for perhaps the first time, as it links to the page in question and not a post here; how about that View Post
Google will run Motorola Mobility as a separate business.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #11 of 47
Maybe Apple and Google should hire some organic chemists as in the world according to Posner their work is the ONLY work requiring patents.

The simple fact is justice WAS NOT served due to the inherent bias of the judge, who took this case on seemingly with the ulterior motive of dismissing it out of hand, a foregone conclusion.

Basically Posner abused his position following his own agenda, which has no place in a fair and just judicial system.

For more on Posner's take on this, may I suggest the following article as a bit of an eye opener:-

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/why-there-are-too-many-patents-in-america/259725/

There's a line, Posner crossed it.
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post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now that Google is appealing to dismissal of this court case will GatorGuy finally acknowledge that Google is controlling Motorola's court cases?

 

Gatorguy would never acknowledge that about his employer.

 

Sorry.

 

My bad.

 

That other company.

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post #13 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Basically Posner abused his position following his own agenda, which has no place in a fair and just judicial system.
 

Wait...there's a country somewhere with a "fair and just judicial system"??!?!!?

post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

Wait...there's a country somewhere with a "fair and just judicial system"??!?!!?

Cardassia.




Oh wait ......






Oh wait ..... again.
post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

My goodness, Android fanatics (believe it or not, there actually are such creatures) will literally die of spontaneous human combustion if Posner's ruling is overturned. I'll be standing by with a can of lighter fluid.

Bit extreme, no?

post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Bit extreme, no?

 

So you reckon normal petrol should be enough?

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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

 

So you reckon normal petrol should be enough?

 

Preferably in a high-oxygen environment.  Only way to be sure. :)

post #18 of 47
I know of only one way to deal with an Android.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post


Your post was nonsense but thanks for your signature though! I didn't know we could put it back to the previous version.

… and you are very quick to notice things.

 

Cheers

post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by minicapt View Post

… and you are very quick to notice things.

Cheers

How else would I have known that? Hardly obvious..

Cheers
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

Wait...there's a country somewhere with a "fair and just judicial system"??!?!!?

 

Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

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post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

lol you don't even know the first thing about simple consumer law in your own country so your comments regarding the court system in another country doesn't hold a lot of weight.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post


lol you don't even know the first thing about simple consumer law in your own country so your comments regarding the court system in another country doesn't hold a lot of weight.

 

Is that because Apple released an iPad that is incapable of working on ANY 4G networks ANYWHERE on Earth, according to the ACCC?

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post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post


That comment combined with your signature quote says a lot about you....
You should really ask your manager at DSE/JBHIFI/Harvey Norman etc to send you on some training.

 

I think you meant to answer his question about the iPad being incapable of working on 4G networks anywhere on Earth.

 

Did you want to have a crack at providing an answer again?

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post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Now that Google is appealing to dismissal of this court case will GatorGuy finally acknowledge that Google is controlling Motorola's court cases?

Of course they are. That's a silly question on the face of it. They've been in control since the purchase closed, and not a minute before. They may treat Moto as a separate entity for business purposes, but there's no doubt from anyone anywhere (AFAIK) that they call the ultimate shots there now. They own 'em.

 

I'll assume the second part of your question just wasn't asked yet, so here's my opinion.  No, this isn't Google initiating a lawsuit against a competitor. This lawsuit wasn't started by Google, but they're now in the position of finishing it out, along with a couple others they've inherited. I suspect Apple wouldn't be willing to drop things if Moto would. do you?

 

I'm certain that as good as Google's legal team is, and they've been stellar, if they say an appeal is now a legal necessity then Google management is going to follow their advice. It doesn't make it a new case.

 

Just wait a while longer. I'm certain Google will eventually start something against Apple or Microsoft. It may or may not be viewed as a defensive move by the press, but plenty big enough to clearly prove they've sued a competitor. Then Google can can be as litigious as the rest of the tech world in your view, and everyone else can go back to viewing Apple as being picked on. Did I anticipate the followup question correctly?


Edited by Gatorguy - 7/22/12 at 5:01am
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post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Probably not, but in a pretence of one, Posner's stance and public remarks open grounds for appeal based on not receiving a fair trial.

Yes, he has given Apple very solid grounds for an appeal. In addition to the clear bias, he made decisions regarding patent law that require an expert opinion. In the article cited above (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/why-there-are-too-many-patents-in-america/259725/), he states: "I am not enough of an expert in patent law to come down flatly in favor of any of the reforms that I have listed. " If he's not an expert in patent law, he shouldn't be handling patent cases, especially high profile ones like this one.

So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).

Just as in the Samsung case, this one is ripe for being overturned. And, just like the Samsung case, all the fandroids are wetting themselves over the issue and will be disappointed in the end.
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post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).

Is Apple using either of those arguments as the basis for their appeal?

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post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Of course they are. That's a silly question on the face of it. They've been in control since the purchase closed, and not a minute before

 

You have to give him points for sticking to his talking points and giving reality the finger, but, of course, Google was in control of Motorola's legal team from the instant the acquisition was announced, and not a minute later.

 

Posner, I think, may have had a CVA or two. First he drives his court into the weeds because he has suddenly taken a dislike to patent law, then he starts giving interviews about how he's embracing the liberal lifestyle. Sudden personality changes are often indications that the patient has suffered a stroke.

post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges View Post

Wait, is this the 3G patent case?

Not totally, but yes I believe there were some issues of FRAND in Apple's suit.

I agree with the notion that these things need to be heard, if only to clean up some of the things the USPTO had been granting that they need to cease. But at the same time it seems like too many diverse issues came up and that confusion of going all over the place might be more cruel that a long trial or several of them.
Edited by charlituna - 7/22/12 at 10:49am

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post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Is that because Apple released an iPad that is incapable of working on ANY 4G networks ANYWHERE on Earth, according to the ACCC?

Moot issue for the discussion.

As for the other comment, yes this man's open comments against the current patent system and that he volunteered for this case will likely come up in at least one sides appeal.

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post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


he states: "I am not enough of an expert in patent law to come down flatly in favor of any of the reforms that I have listed. " If he's not an expert in patent law, he shouldn't be handling patent cases, especially high profile ones like this one.
So Apple can appeal on the basis of both bias AND incompetence (using the judge's own words).
 
 

 

So not being expert enough to come down flatly WRT the issues he raised is the same as being incompetent to hear the issues in the Apple lawsuit?

 

Logic can be your friend.  But only if you stop skipping over the adjectives and realize what  people are really saying.

post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Is Apple using either of those arguments as the basis for their appeal?

 

 

Of course not.  Neither of those bases would make any sense at all. If they made sense, apple would have been all over them like stink on shit.

 

But that doesn't stop the armchair lawyers who never attended any law school classes whatsoever, not even at the worst law school in all of the Americas. Nope.  He proposes novel grounds for appeal, all of which are rejected by Apple.

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Maybe Apple and Google should hire some organic chemists as in the world according to Posner their work is the ONLY work requiring patents.
The simple fact is justice WAS NOT served due to the inherent bias of the judge, who took this case on seemingly with the ulterior motive of dismissing it out of hand, a foregone conclusion.
Basically Posner abused his position following his own agenda, which has no place in a fair and just judicial system.
For more on Posner's take on this, may I suggest the following article as a bit of an eye opener:-
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/why-there-are-too-many-patents-in-america/259725/
There's a line, Posner crossed it.

First of all, thanks for the link. After reading it, I have to say that my stance on Judge Posner's decision has changed somewhat. It seems to me that he has admitted that, technically, his decision was wrong and he expects an appeal .... but it's clear to me that what he really wants is an overhaul of the patent process to make it more efficient and fair. His "cure" for patent trolling, for instance, is exactly what I, and others, have been saying for years.

 

I think he just used his position to try and move the patent system problems to the foreground .... in the way that would get the most attention. I hope it works and I believe that the outcome in any appeal will be positive for Apple.

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post #34 of 47

Chairman Page, Supreme Ruler of The People's Republic of Googlestan, issued the following statement:

 

Quote:
We need to steal Apple's iOS technology because we have no ideas of our own. We will leverage the FRAND patents that we assimilated during the invasion acquisition of the Independent Republic of Motorola to extort concessions from Apple and bring them to their knees. Don't be evil. Peace out.

 

Googlestan Information Minister Schmidt also released a statement:

 

Quote:
Android is winning! We know where you live. If you don't like it, you can move.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Just wait a while longer. I'm certain Google will eventually start something against Apple or Microsoft. It may or may not be viewed as a defensive move by the press, but plenty big enough to clearly prove they've sued a competitor. Then Google can can be as litigious as the rest of the tech world in your view, and everyone else can go back to viewing Apple as being picked on. Did I anticipate the followup question correctly?

For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.

Just my humble opinion...
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.
Just my humble opinion...

When you brought up this analogy I chance this

 

 

An Obituary printed in the London Times -  

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

 He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: 
- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm; 
- Life isn't always fair; 
- and maybe it was my fault. 

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. 

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. 

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. 

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. 

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. 

Common Sense was preceded ! in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by ! his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason. 

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers: 
I Know My Rights 
I Want It Now 
Someone Else Is To Blame 
I'm A Victim 

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

When you brought up this analogy I chance this


An Obituary printed in the London Times -  


Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.



While that is apropos and rather truthful it is sad that Knowing the Facts died well before this.

The woman didn't sue because the coffee was hot. She sued because it was scalding and well over a safe drinking temp. McDonald's even admitted to brewing their coffee that hot on purpose so it would stay hot longer and create more smell.

Common Sense would agree that brewing a liquid at a temp so high it can cause 2nd degree burns whether in your lap or down your throat is worthy of being sued and both publicly and legally called out over it

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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post

For some reason Google suing Apple conjures up images of the burglar who sues the homeowner for slipping down the stairs and hurting himself while carrying the homeowners large screen TV.
Just my humble opinion...

Nailed it perfectly!
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post #39 of 47
Speaking of GatorGuy, I'm wondering why he's avoided the thread about Google thinking patents should become "de facto" standards if they become commonly used.

I bet even he's trying to find some way to put a spin that favors Google, and since he can't come up with anything he's simply avoiding the issue altogether.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Speaking of GatorGuy, I'm wondering why he's avoided the thread about Google thinking patents should become "de facto" standards if they become commonly used.
I bet even he's trying to find some way to put a spin that favors Google, and since he can't come up with anything he's simply avoiding the issue altogether.

What's to say that hasn't been said? I don't normally post something just to post.

 

EDIT: I realized you may be sincerely curious about my view on what Google had to say. I assume you know I don't represent Google in any way, nor even normally advocate for them. (The only positives I can think of are some recent comments about Google Voice and the Nexus 7, both deserving of positive mentions IMO). In any case, let me finish pressure-washing the house and later today I'll try to put some thoughts together on how I personally see it.

 

Link the thread you want me to comment in if you don't mind.


Edited by Gatorguy - 7/22/12 at 12:19pm
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