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You Didn't Build That!

post #1 of 28
7/23/12 at 4:34am
Thread Starter 

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In the most insane and bizarre bit of reasoning out there, we are told that Obama isn't responsible at all for the failures of his own administration. The problems were deeper than we initially thought. The turnarounds are taking longer than predicted. He needs more time, etc. All the problems are the fault of George Bush or Ronald Reagan or well, anyone but Barack Obama.

 

Yet on the flip side of this, government is responsible for all the successes out there. It can't fix the problems but it deserves all the credit be it past, present or future.

 

It is sort of delusional and dangerous thinking. I prefer to laugh rather than worry about some increasingly insane and intolerant leftist attempting to murder me or others as almost all of them have done via their purgings and revolutions. If you find some funny pics along this meme, post them here.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #2 of 28
7/23/12 at 6:51am
Thread Starter 

700

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 28
7/23/12 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is sort of delusional and dangerous thinking.

 

Yes...and it lays out more clearly Obama's core Marxist worldview.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #4 of 28
7/23/12 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Yes...and it lays out more clearly Obama's core Marxist worldview.

 

The best part is watching Democratic pundits and Obamatrons try to explain and justify his comments.   Their argument is that it's out of context, which of course the comment was not.  In fact, put in its proper context, it actually is worse.  It's what he actually thinks.  He actually believes in the backwards notion that without infrastructure, there would be no society.  In fact, it's the the other way around.  Roads weren't built before cars, nor were bridges.  The private sector makes the public sector possible...and I saw that as a public employee myself.  Watching the media and Obamatron pundits go apocalyptic over this is somewhat enjoyable, however.  

 

Finally, it seems this is becoming one of the worst Presidential blunders (if one can call it that) of all time.  It's beyond Dukakis in the tank.  I think it's going to end up defining the election.  

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post #5 of 28
7/23/12 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The best part is watching Democratic pundits and Obamatrons try to explain and justify his comments.   Their argument is that it's out of context, which of course the comment was not.  In fact, put in its proper context, it actually is worse.  It's what he actually thinks.  He actually believes in the backwards notion that without infrastructure, there would be no society.  In fact, it's the the other way around.  Roads weren't built before cars, nor were bridges.  The private sector makes the public sector possible...

 

What's more is the presumption that things currently provided through the public sector have not ever or could not be provided privately. Including the common concern about roads.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Finally, it seems this is becoming one of the worst Presidential blunders (if one can call it that) of all time.  It's beyond Dukakis in the tank.  I think it's going to end up defining the election.  

 

You may be right. From an election perspective however, it is very early. If this had happen post-Labor Day, I'd argue he would have handed the election to Romney.


Edited by MJ1970 - 7/23/12 at 7:52am

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #6 of 28
7/23/12 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

What's more is the presumption that things currently provided through the public sector have not ever or could not be provided privately.

 

 

 

You may be right. From an election perspective however, it is very early. If this had happen post-Labor Day, I'd argue he would have handed the election to Romney.

 

I disagree.  The undecided vote always break huge for the challenger (as in more than 75%).  Most people have made up their minds.  This only reinforces their perceptions.  

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post #7 of 28
7/23/12 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I disagree.  The undecided vote always break huge for the challenger (as in more than 75%).  Most people have made up their minds.  This only reinforces their perceptions.  

 

Hmmm. Not sure about that. I've read that most people don't really pay close attention until the fall. But who knows.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #8 of 28
7/23/12 at 10:01am

That's an inaccurate analysis.  I'm talking about how people vote vs. how they are polled.  Dick Morris did an extensive analysis on this recently.  It's worth a read.  

 

 

 

Quote:

To answer this question, I compared the final Gallup polls with the actual results in every race in which an incumbent president was opposing an insurgent since 1964....

 

...In these races, the undecided vote went heavily for the insurgent and the incumbent lost vote share between the final poll and the election, even when the incumbent was winning the contest easily overall. Six of eight presidents seeking reelection performed worse than the final Gallup poll predicted, while one finished the same (Reagan in 1984) and one gained votes (Bush in 2004). Seven of the nine insurgent candidates did better than the final Gallup survey predicted....

 

...In other words, of the total of 
19 points that shifted between the final poll and the election results, 17 points or 89 percent went to the challenger.

 

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post #9 of 28
7/24/12 at 4:21am

Everything Obama states is a blunder to you.I guess Romney is Mr. Perfect. A Perfect Liar!
 

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post #10 of 28
7/24/12 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Everything Obama states is a blunder to you.I guess Romney is Mr. Perfect. A Perfect Liar!
 

 

1.  False.  Some of his outrageous statements are on purpose.  :)  

 

2.  Romney is not perfect, nor is he a liar. 

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post #11 of 28
7/24/12 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Romney is not perfect, nor is he a liar. 

 

Of course Romney is a liar. That's why he's the presumptive Republican nominee.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #12 of 28
7/24/12 at 9:34pm

 

As one of the commenters says, this is Obama's "I am not a witch" ad.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #13 of 28
7/25/12 at 3:06am

The lack of comments is because the source material offers so, very little logic.  On a personal note, this was the first time I have been emotionally dispatched to loathe the man on a personal level.  Before, I had some measure of respect for him.  Now, I have neither respect, sympathy, or even empathy.  I suspect that I'm not the only small business owner who has been so insulted.

Cat: the other white meat
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post #14 of 28
7/25/12 at 3:59am

Share the wealth.

The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #15 of 28
7/25/12 at 4:24am

You are 100% wrong again Obama will win this election and Romney will go home with his tail between his legs.Like a little weasel which he is.
 

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post #16 of 28
7/25/12 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

As one of the commenters says, this is Obama's "I am not a witch" ad.

 

 

I hadn't seen that.  I agree with you.  The other one was the Obama ad that accused Romney of making a false attack.  It shows Romney quoting the President directly, then shows Obama saying exactly the same thing.  Again, all this in an OBAMA ad.  WTF?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

The lack of comments is because the source material offers so, very little logic.  On a personal note, this was the first time I have been emotionally dispatched to loathe the man on a personal level.  Before, I had some measure of respect for him.  Now, I have neither respect, sympathy, or even empathy.  I suspect that I'm not the only small business owner who has been so insulted.

 

From what I've seen, you are not alone.   Mark my words, this will be the defining issue and statement of the election.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are 100% wrong again Obama will win this election and Romney will go home with his tail between his legs.Like a little weasel which he is.
 

 

So, you can say this with 100% certainty?  Well that must be nice, because even the top political pundits disagree with you.   In fact, few are predicting an easy Obama victory.  Most are claiming it will be an extremely tight election.  Dick Morris--who helped get Clinton selected and is now a Republican--claims that according to current polls, Obama WILL lose.  Do you have any data to support you claims?  

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post #17 of 28
7/25/12 at 12:47pm

The bigger point here is tactics. Think of what the Democrats' polling data must look like in order for the DNC backroom to greenlight that TV spot.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #18 of 28
7/27/12 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 

WSJ.com

 

 

Quote:

The Obama campaign has elevated poll-testing and focus-grouping to near-clinical heights, and the results drive the president's every action: his policies, his campaign venues, his targeted demographics, his messaging. That Mr. Obama felt required—teeth-gritted—to address the "you didn't build that" meme means his vaunted focus groups are sounding alarms.


The obsession with tested messages is precisely why the president's rare moments of candor—on free enterprise, on those who "cling to their guns and religion," on the need to "spread the wealth around"—are so revealing. They are a look at the real man. It turns out Mr. Obama's dismissive words toward free enterprise closely mirror a speech that liberal Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren gave last August.

 

Ms. Warren's argument—that government is the real source of all business success—went viral and made a profound impression among the liberal elite, who have been pushing for its wider adoption. Mr. Obama chose to road-test it on the national stage, presumably thinking it would underline his argument for why the wealthy should pay more. It was a big political misstep, and now has the Obama team seriously worried.

 

Enlarge Image

image
 
And no wonder. The immediate effect was to suck away the president's momentum. Mr. Obama has little positive to brag about, and his campaign hinges on keeping negative attention on his opponent. For months, the president's team hammered on Mr. Romney's time at Bain, his Massachusetts tenure, his tax returns. "You didn't build that" shifted the focus to the president, and his decision to respond to the criticisms has only legitimized them and guaranteed they continue.

 

The Obama campaign's bigger problem, both sides are now realizing, is that his words go beyond politics and are more devastating than the Romney complaints that Mr. Obama is too big-government oriented or has mishandled the economy. They raise the far more potent issue of national identity and feed the suspicion that Mr. Obama is actively hostile to American ideals and aspirations. Republicans are doing their own voter surveys, and they note that Mr. Obama's problem is that his words cause an emotional response, and that they disturb voters in nearly every demographic.

 

It's why Mr. Obama's "out of context" complaints aren't getting traction. The Republican National Committee's response to that gripe was to run an ad that shows a full minute of Mr. Obama's rant at the Roanoke, Va., campaign event on July 13. In addition to "you didn't build that," the president also put down those who think they are "smarter" or "work harder" than others. Witness the first president to demean the bedrock American beliefs in industriousness and exceptionalism. The "context" only makes it worse.

 

There's no ducking, running or hiding from this admission of truth from our own president.

 

If you feel like you are smart, work hard or made something happen, well you are the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #19 of 28
7/29/12 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

WSJ.com

 

 

 

There's no ducking, running or hiding from this admission of truth from our own president.

 

If you feel like you are smart, work hard or made something happen, well you are the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

 

I was thinking about his comments recently.  Something occurred to me that reinforces my belief that, in context, his comments are even worse than reported.  The "you didn't built that" comment has been both attacked and defended ad nauseam.  Democrats are claiming he was focusing on roads and bridges and such.  But was he?  I don't think so.  If he was, the campaign would have issued a simple statement that said:  

 

"You didn't build that" was a reference to infrastructure projects like roads, bridges and schools--not a reference to individual businesses and business owners themselves.  The President regrets the misunderstanding." 

 

Was there anything like that?  No.  That's because Obama stepped in it by revealing (as you note) what he actually believes.  There is no walking it back now.  This campaign is going to be defined by: 

 

1. The private sector is doing fine.

2. You didn't build that. 

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post #20 of 28
7/29/12 at 1:51pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance

The private sector as per corporate profits is doing fine.  The jobs aren't there because high corporate profits don't necessarily create jobs--demand does.

 

Romney's poster boys for his "You didn't build that" series of ads all received plenty of government assistance in getting their businesses up and running.  Oops.  He accidentally provides evidence against his own misunderstanding of Obama's point.  Romneyshambles.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #21 of 28
7/30/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The private sector as per corporate profits is doing fine.  The jobs aren't there because high corporate profits don't necessarily create jobs--demand does.

 

Romney's poster boys for his "You didn't build that" series of ads all received plenty of government assistance in getting their businesses up and running.  Oops.  He accidentally provides evidence against his own misunderstanding of Obama's point.  Romneyshambles.

 

1.  Yes, overall corporate profits are "fine." 

 

2.  Jobs aren't fine because business is terrified of investing in new employees.  It's not just demand.  It's uncertainty.  Obamacare is promising to wreak havoc in terms of taxes. We're staring at massive tax increases across the board in just a few months.  We have an anti-business President and administration.  It's not hard to understand, BR.  

 

3.   Prove your assertion about Romney's "poster boys."  I find it hard to believe that all or even most received "government assistance."  The President was not talking about roads and bridges and schools, BR.  If he was, he would have immediately issued a statement to that effect.  This is what he really believes.  

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post #22 of 28
7/30/12 at 10:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The private sector as per corporate profits is doing fine.  The jobs aren't there because high corporate profits don't necessarily create jobs--demand does.

 

Romney's poster boys for his "You didn't build that" series of ads all received plenty of government assistance in getting their businesses up and running.  Oops.  He accidentally provides evidence against his own misunderstanding of Obama's point.  Romneyshambles.

 

1.  Yes, overall corporate profits are "fine." 

 

2.  Jobs aren't fine because business is terrified of investing in new employees.  It's not just demand.  It's uncertainty.  Obamacare is promising to wreak havoc in terms of taxes. We're staring at massive tax increases across the board in just a few months.  We have an anti-business President and administration.  It's not hard to understand, BR.  

 

3.   Prove your assertion about Romney's "poster boys."  I find it hard to believe that all or even most received "government assistance."  The President was not talking about roads and bridges and schools, BR.  If he was, he would have immediately issued a statement to that effect.  This is what he really believes.  

 

The other side of this is the job has to be "good enough" to outweigh sitting at home with your EBT card, your two years of unemployment benefits, your section 8 housing, your EITC credit and your pending application for Social Security Disability.

 

Almost everyone I know who has a job is earning good money and is working plenty of hours, too many hours. They'd all rather work less but there isn't any hiring going on and even when they do cave and hire, the applicants aren't very good.

 

My poor brother hasn't been able to take any vacation time and they've been paying him over and double time for a year. It's cheaper to double his salary than worry about a desperate future "victim" that hasn't punched a time card or looked at a clock for years who will come in and swear they were harassed, intimidated or hurt and now need a check with no work to back it up. A friend of mine who works for the postal service is being forced to pick up shifts because they fired (even after union appeals) a woman who had run the postal vehicle into all manner of other cars and objects seven times in two years. Her seven accidents were all related to her inability to stop using a cell phone while driving. A third friend works software development and they simply cannot find the talent to hire. They have multiple openings for $80k+ a year that cannot be filled. Meanwhile he is working 60+ hours a week and I have no doubt we have ever more unemployed college graduates with degrees in political activism or ethnic and gender studies, all waiting for some government mandates to make them and their "expertise" pay.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 28
7/31/12 at 1:28pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/07/30/more-of-romneys-self-sustaining-businessmen-got-government-loans

 

 

 

Quote:

More of Romney's Self-Sustaining Businessmen Got Government Loans

posted by PAUL CONSTANT on MON, JUL 30, 2012 at 5:54 PM

I reiterate: Romney's attacks on President Obama's "You didn't build that speech" are all constructed on a falsehood. Go watch Jon Stewart prove that Romney is being disingenuous about this.

But the funny thing is, even though the most successful attack that Romney has levied against Obama in months is based on an outright and purposeful misreading of something that President Obama said, Romney's attacks are all proving President Obama's original point.

“We’ve got a group of business people here – including myself – who really take offense to the idea that government builds businesses,” said Dave Leinweber, the owner of Angler’s Covey, at Monday morning’s [Romney] press event. “We create the jobs. We’ve doubled our work force here because of our hard work, not because of some program or anything like that. We’ve just worked hard.”

But, in an interview with FOX31 Denver, Leinweber also acknowledged that, as much as he was frustrated by government regulation, he was only able to finance his business’s expansion to a new, larger location with a loan backed by a government program that enabled him to get a small business loan.

This is not the first time that this has happened. You'd think the Romney people would start vetting the businesspeople they choose to represent hard-working American individualism. And even if they did find an American small business owner who never took a penny of government loans, they'd never be able to find a small business owner who didn't profit from government-owned-and-maintained roads, or workers who were educated in public schools, which was President Obama's real point.

 

Oops.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #24 of 28
7/31/12 at 1:29pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

1.  Yes, overall corporate profits are "fine." 

 

2.  Jobs aren't fine because business is terrified of investing in new employees.  It's not just demand.  It's uncertainty.  Obamacare is promising to wreak havoc in terms of taxes. We're staring at massive tax increases across the board in just a few months.  We have an anti-business President and administration.  It's not hard to understand, BR.  

 

3.   Prove your assertion about Romney's "poster boys."  I find it hard to believe that all or even most received "government assistance."  The President was not talking about roads and bridges and schools, BR.  If he was, he would have immediately issued a statement to that effect.  This is what he really believes.  

Yeah, he's so antibusiness that he let the banks get away with murder.  Give me a break.  I wish Obama were more for the people.  He's just less in their pockets than Romney is.  And why don't you prove your assertion that business is "terrified". I mean, you made it bold, so it must be true, right?  Business won't invest in new employees unless the demand forecasts and cost-benefit analyses point to it.  The uncertainty, largely, is coming from the right's inability to agree to anything--even their own ideas proposed by Democrats.

 

It wasn't the Democrats who held the country hostage and sold a false narrative to the people regarding the "debt ceiling" (the money we already spent as a nation).  Yeah, that'll cause some uncertainty.  What the **** are these nutters on the right going to do next?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #25 of 28
7/31/12 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/07/30/more-of-romneys-self-sustaining-businessmen-got-government-loans

 

 

 

 

Oops.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by BR View Post
 

 

Quote:
Yeah, he's so antibusiness that he let the banks get away with murder.  Give me a break.

 

The large banks do not comprise "business"---even a significant portion of it.  Question..are you saying he's pro-business?  

 

 

 

Quote:
 I wish Obama were more for the people.  He's just less in their pockets than Romney is.

 

That's a phrase we hear a lot.  I would like to know what you think it means, and how it applies less to Obama than to Romney.  

 

 

 

Quote:

 

 And why don't you prove your assertion that business is "terrified". I mean, you made it bold, so it must be true, right?

 

Uh, really?  Do you have ears? Eyes?  Have you actually talked to business owners?  The problem, BR, is that you think that jobs come from big corporations.  They don't.  Small business creates the vast majority of new jobs in this country.  And of those new jobs, the vast majority are created from NEW businesses.   I could go on literally all day with example upon example of businesses that can't or won't hire.  What are their stated reasons?  

 

  • Obamacare taxes
  • Obamacare penalties for businesses with 50+ workers
  • Looming tax increases on "the rich" (which includes many small businesses)  
  • An stagnant economy 
  • Increased regulation ($46 billion total in new Obama regulations thus far).  
  • Lack of affordable capital to expand (despite Obama "saving" the banks) 
  • A view that the President and Administration are not business-friendly and are more interested in punishing them than helping them succeed.  This is subjective, of course.  But listen to them.  It's also very real.  

 

 

 

 

Quote:
 Business won't invest in new employees unless the demand forecasts and cost-benefit analyses point to it.  The uncertainty, largely, is coming from the right's inability to agree to anything--even their own ideas proposed by Democrats.

 

Ideas?  What ideas?  The Democrats are insistent upon raising taxes.  You can try to bash the GOP over the head for supporting the Heritage Foundation on the individual mandate 20 years ago.  But that doesn't mean Obamacare was their idea.  Even if this were the case, it has nothing to do with the completely unserious economic proposals the Democrats support.  Raising taxes...now?  Really?  

 

 

 

Quote:
It wasn't the Democrats who held the country hostage and sold a false narrative to the people regarding the "debt ceiling" (the money we already spent as a nation).  Yeah, that'll cause some uncertainty.  What the **** are these nutters on the right going to do next?

 

Who is holding the country hostage now?  The Democrats are willing to let ALL taxes go up unless the GOP caves and allows a tax increase on "the rich."  As for the debt ceiling, to be honest..I think the GOP should have gone much further.  They should have refused to raise it without corresponding immediate cuts.  

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post #26 of 28
7/31/12 at 1:58pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance

Allowing a law to sunset as it was designed is not holding the country hostage.  This situation and the debt ceiling are not relevantly similar and it is highly disingenuous to proclaim otherwise. 

 

Also, good job ignoring Romney's government-backed-fake-do-it-yourselfers

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #27 of 28
7/31/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Allowing a law to sunset as it was designed is not holding the country hostage.  This situation and the debt ceiling are not relevantly similar and it is highly disingenuous to proclaim otherwise. 

 

Also, good job ignoring Romney's government-backed-fake-do-it-yourselfers

 

1.  You have to kidding me.  An increase is an increase.  Please, at least TRY.  

 

2.  Didn't have time..too many threads and comments.  I really don't see it as anything other than a political football for you to toss about.  It's fun for you to bash Romney over little things like this.  Meanwhile, good job ignoring a failed President who doesn't seem to like his country very much.  

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post #28 of 28
8/24/12 at 11:50am

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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