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Tim Cook is not the man to lead Apple longterm

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
I just can't see Tim Cook as having the creative genius to lead apple longterm. He appears to be a careful and good businessman but after Jobs' itv is done what is left? This guy is not an INNOVATOR
post #2 of 28

Ignoring the nonsense about the television, have you forgotten that Jonathan Ive, Phil Schiller, and Scott Forstall are all at Apple, hand-picked and raised by Steve Jobs?

I imagine you have.

 

Tim Cook is just as necessary as any of them.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #3 of 28

Also, Steve Jobs was not the only reason that Apple was successful. He clearly helped turn the company back around, but it's not a 1 man show. 

post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart 
what is left?

If there's nothing left to do, why does Tim need to be innovative? Fact is, Steve has pretty much taken personal computing from inception to its pinnacle.

As I've said before, when you have a quad-core in your pants there's not much more needs to be done. Even science fiction films are just using iPhones and iPads now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GoLPbSok79U#t=42s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GoLPbSok79U#t=71s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GoLPbSok79U#t=230s

There's some work to be done with input methods so we don't have to use our hands so much:



and I think keyboards and mice are going to go away eventually. I imagine we'll see 3D displays done properly. Any of these incremental steps can be handled by Apple's current team though just like most of the innovative things in the past. That was Steve's biggest strength - building up a team of A players - he didn't develop OS X nor iOS, he didn't design the icons, he didn't design the moulds for the laptops, he didn't pick the CPU/GPU parts, no single person can do all those things. They can have their control over the operation and they can add their input but a single person can only ever know so much and control so much.

Tim Cook has proven himself very capable of keeping Apple under control and following through on Apple's biggest ever product launches. Shipping 54 million devices in 3 months is hardly evidence he doesn't have what it takes.

If Tim falls short of people expecting him to fill Steve's sneakers, the problem lies with those expectations, not with Tim. Realise once and for all that those sneakers can't be filled; if they could be, they wouldn't be unique. Tim is unique - he wears shoes and he wears suits and he has an annoying accent. He's a different person and he's great at his job.

If you want an icon to be the face of Apple that you can ascribe all of Apple's innovation to, you won't find one because Steve and Apple have been synonymous for so long and it was wrong to assign all Apple's achievements to Steve in the first place. Even when he had a break for months, people expected him at the keynotes. Why? He obviously wasn't working at Apple in the run up to the keynote. It was because he was the face of the company just like Larry and Sergey are the faces of Google, just like Colonel Sanders was the face of KFC.

Do you see people asking for a replacement for Colonel Sanders to make some new flavours of chicken? New flavours will come with or without him. Since the beginning of time, great leaders, inventors, artists, musicians and engineers have come and gone - people who did something important enough to prevent being forgotten. But there's nothing that makes them differ from us. They shower in the morning, look in the mirror wondering how best to present themselves to the world, what activity they will occupy themselves with that day and they do what they are passionate about.

If people want someone to admire and respect, they can be found quite easily - just stop looking up:



ps - someone give me a quick count of how many Mac Pros you see in the video.
post #5 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


If there's nothing left to do, why does Tim need to be innovative? Fact is, Steve has pretty much taken personal computing from inception to its pinnacle.
 

I don't entirely buy that it will all be stagnant from here. Unpredictable things can come up. I would suggest that if you ask anyone at Apple why you are still waiting on a mini, this is the look you'll get. It's from your video. Click and pause it right on that frame, then pretend to ask him about the new mini.

post #6 of 28
Don't be a fool and fall into the trap of believing Steve was the innovator at Apple. Steve's greatest accomplishment is in getting people to work together to achieve a common goal. Sure he had ideas, we all have had ideas, but it takes a different person to drive a team to realize those goals. Also not all of Steve's ideas where winners. I suggest you spend some time on the net reading about the development of the Mac or buy a book or two. By reading a bit of the happenings as seen by people that where actually there you will start to realize that Steve's role was far more diversified than people would like to believe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

I just can't see Tim Cook as having the creative genius to lead apple longterm. He appears to be a careful and good businessman but after Jobs' itv is done what is left? This guy is not an INNOVATOR
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

ps - someone give me a quick count of how many Mac Pros you see in the video.

 

Without watching - zero?

The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

ps - someone give me a quick count of how many Mac Pros you see in the video.

Without watching - zero?

Nope.

The 40+ MBPs might lead you to believe there's none but that's not the case. There's a couple of Minis in there too.

It's clear what the most popular machine is though and why they get the first updates.

This is probably what's holding up everything else. The shipping times only just lowered to 1-2 weeks so they must have quite a backlog of orders. They might not ship the new desktops until that clears up. It's weird how they can ship 17 million iPads but 3 million or so MBPs create such a big delay.
post #9 of 28

Cook is a tool, all he's good for is managing the status quo.  

 

His epic fail on the Mac Pro non-update was a joke.  And axing the 17" MacBook Pro?  Apple aren't serious about computing anymore, all they seem to care about are shiny baubles and gadgets.  

 

I'd like to see a CEO who would just up and set his balls on the table and introduce a headless iMac.  

post #10 of 28
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

I'd like to see a CEO who would just up and set his balls on the table and introduce a headless iMac.  

 

Go. Buy. A. PC.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

I just can't see Tim Cook as having the creative genius to lead apple longterm. He appears to be a careful and good businessman but after Jobs' itv is done what is left? This guy is not an INNOVATOR

Scott Forstall. But give him time.
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Go. Buy. A. PC.

 

Why are you here if you think PCs are so great???

post #13 of 28
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
Why are you here if you think PCs are so great???


That's my question to you.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Cook is a tool, all he's good for is managing the status quo.  

His epic fail on the Mac Pro non-update was a joke.  And axing the 17" MacBook Pro?  Apple aren't serious about computing anymore, all they seem to care about are shiny baubles and gadgets.  

I'd like to see a CEO who would just up and set his balls on the table and introduce a headless iMac.  

He's a tool because he focuses on their most profitable products by far?

http://www.wingsofreason.com/2012/07/26/apple-revenue-breakdown-july-quarters-2012-edition/

He's a tool because he axed a laptop model very few people were buying to make a model that is inundated with orders?

Yeah what he should do is build a model of computer hardly anyone is buying any more to help get that 4% of total revenue up a bit.

Although the profit differs on their products, they are shipping around 30 million iPhones per quarter and 25% (going by the revenue split) of 4 million units in desktops = 1 million desktops per quarter of which 15% appear to be headless models = 150k.

30 million iPhones per quarter vs 150k desktops per quarter. iPhones outsell desktops 200:1 so even if Apple made $100 per iPhone and $1000 per desktop in profit (which they don't), the iPhone would still be 20x more profitable and yet your suggestion is to focus on the desktops.

For Cook to lead Apple properly, he just needs to make sure Apple does what it has always done: skate to where the puck is going to be. That's what they are doing. Not everybody likes where that leaves us at present but it doesn't matter, everyone will like where we end up.
post #15 of 28
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
He's a tool because he focuses on their most profitable products by far?
He's a tool because he axed a laptop model very few people were buying to make a model that is inundated with orders?

 

I wonder if he meant tool the insult or tool the utility. For once that was actually sort of ambiguous.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #16 of 28
Thread Starter 
Don't plaY on words. He needs to be innovative precisely because there is nothing left. He needs to come up with something new. And no, releasing a smaller iPad is not innovation, it's called being scared of the 7inch tablets already making inroads such as the google nexus.
post #17 of 28
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post
Don't plaY on words.

 

Tell him, then.


He needs to be innovative precisely because there is nothing left.

 

Which you know, since you work alongside him every day. Has he stopped his nail biting out of worry yet?


He needs to come up with something new.

 

Why? He has entire team to do that. I'd be happy if Cook kept doing what he was known for: simplifying operations.

 

And no, releasing a smaller iPad is not innovation, it's called being scared of the 7inch tablets already making inroads such as the google nexus.

 

Which is why I personally don't buy that crap. The iPad 2 will be $299 in about nine months. The 7" market has until then to make something worth buying.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


That's my question to you.

 

An odd question, at that.  Why would a "PC-lover" give a squat about Apple's product lineup?

post #19 of 28
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
An odd question, at that.  Why would a "PC-lover" give a squat about Apple's product lineup?

 

For the same reason Android users come on here and whine about how the iPhone doesn't have a 4.5" screen and SD card slot.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The iPad 2 will be $299 in about nine months. The 7" market has until then to make something worth buying.

 

I've got a Nook Color which is pretty nice.  At the time I bought it, it had a higher pixel density than the iPad, which I preferred for reading text.  When I can finally buy a 7" Retina iPad, the nook color is history, but meanwhile it's seen a lot of use.

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

For the same reason Android users come on here and whine about how the iPhone doesn't have a 4.5" screen and SD card slot.

So it hurts your feelings when people criticize Apple's products, is that it?  

post #22 of 28
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
So it hurts your feelings when people criticize Apple's products, is that it?  

 

Stick to the argument or don't bother bringing things up.

 

A scant handful of people keep screaming for an xMac. For nearly two decades they've done this. Apple couldn't care less. And these people couldn't care less to try something that isn't exactly what they think they want. It's time they look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Stick to the argument or don't bother bringing things up.

 

A scant handful of people keep screaming for an xMac. For nearly two decades they've done this. Apple couldn't care less. And these people couldn't care less to try something that isn't exactly what they think they want. It's time they look elsewhere.

THIS.

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


He's a tool because he focuses on their most profitable products by far?
http://www.wingsofreason.com/2012/07/26/apple-revenue-breakdown-july-quarters-2012-edition/
He's a tool because he axed a laptop model very few people were buying to make a model that is inundated with orders?
 

 

He could have improved the 17" MacBook Pro to improve sales, but that's a lot harder than just axing it.  

 

It makes sense in one way, since having the 17" MBP next to the Retina MBPs would lead to confusion between wanting the biggest screen or the highest resolution, so I'll give him that one.

 

Mainly though, Cook's specialty is managing production and distribution.  He's exceptionally good at that, but those skills aren't what's needed to lead in innovation.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Stick to the argument or don't bother bringing things up.

 

A scant handful of people keep screaming for an xMac. For nearly two decades they've done this. Apple couldn't care less. And these people couldn't care less to try something that isn't exactly what they think they want. It's time they look elsewhere.

 I have looked elsewhere, I own a Mac Pro!  The issue is that it's overkill for my needs.  

 

Apparently you're feelings are hurt when people don't fluff Apple's product lines.  You think Apple's product matrix is perfect as it is.  You berate and marginalize anyone who doesn't agree with you're uncritical assesment of Apple products.  

 

You know what says it all?  You telling me to go buy a PC.  I've been using Macs since 1987, and currently own a Mac Pro, two Minis, an iMac and a 17" MBP.  It's difficult to overestimate my love for the Macintosh platform.  Yet you would have me dump Macs because I'm critical of Apple's product lineup.  

 

Again, why are you here?  There are better forums for Apple Kool Aid drinkers.

post #26 of 28
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Yet you would have me dump Macs because I'm critical of Apple's product lineup.  

 

Every single sentence in that post is wrong, but I'll address this one specifically.

 

I'd have you dump Macs because after sixteen years of them not doing what you want, you still whine on forums about how you want them to change. This isn't how you get things to actually happen. You stop buying Apple products and go buy what you actually want. If enough people do it, then Apple changes.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #27 of 28
I am slightly hesitant about Apple at this stage. They seem to be completing the story arc of Steve, which is great, and I still love Apple stuff (there aren't any real alternatives, honestly, for the spaces that Apple focuses on).

But 2013 will see the next wave under Cook. So the jury is still out, and I'm not placing my bets just yet.

I have been very keen to develop iBooks2 but something feels a bit funny about iPad 7".
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Cook is a tool, all he's good for is managing the status quo.  

 

His epic fail on the Mac Pro non-update was a joke.  And axing the 17" MacBook Pro?  Apple aren't serious about computing anymore, all they seem to care about are shiny baubles and gadgets.  

 

I'd like to see a CEO who would just up and set his balls on the table and introduce a headless iMac.  

 

So then Jobs, who showed little interest in big heavy desktops and clearly saw the future of computing as being mobile and ubiquitous, and who certainly never bothered with the often clamored for xMac, lacked "balls"?  Was a "tool" who was only good at "managing the status quo"? 

 

So I guess the idea is you wait till Jobs is gone so you can claim the fact that Apple (still) doesn't make the machines you personally want is an obvious sign of decline.  And if anyone doesn't buy it it must be because they're Apple sycophants, rather than your argument is incoherent or self-absorbed.  Because you'll notice that in all the years that Jobs presided over Apple's renaissance, many of those years featured "managing the status quo", i.e. incremental upgrades to existing products.  He didn't bring out world changing new categories every year, or even every other year.  And he certainly didn't worry much about freaking out Apple's customers by dropping products or changing focus.

 

So how about you give Cook's Apple a little time to see what's in the pipeline, before you dismiss Apple as being a bauble company with no balls.  An attitude which doesn't require Apple apologetics to see is merely cranky and clueless.

They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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