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Apple apparently kills Windows PC support in Safari 6.0 - Page 2

post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

I happen to love Safari on my Windows machines. 

 

This is bad news for me. 

 

I'm dread to weigh the alternatives. I guess I'll use v5 until it breaks. /sigh
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I use Safari for Windows XP at work (yup...still on XP.  That's the way education is going right now with budget cuts).  The memory leaks are HORRENDOUS.  There is one task that takes up an obscene amount of memory when Safari runs--webkit2webprocess.exe.  Nothing works in terms of rectifying the problem.  

 

Mine on W7 run perfectly even w/ tons of extensions... True about Safari on XP though. AVOID!!!
post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post


Are there any stats to back that up?  Last I knew, Windows was around 90% market penetration.  How do you square that with Windows "failiing"?

Plenty of stats. We've seen Windows desktop marketshare drop in favour of the Mac for years; helps along by the Get A Mac campaign. Then we've seen OEM-based and then MS's Zune, which all run Windows CE not take hold as people favoured the iPod. After that we saw Windows Mobile drop year after year because of the iPhone's presence. Now we're seeing another major hit to Windows desktop as the iPad's success to reversing WinPC sales. The iPad has been so effective in this that it's even slowing Mac sales and has forced MS's hand to create the Surface in a vain attempt to stem the iPad's future success at chipping away at Windows desktop dominance.

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post #44 of 84

For one job I was told that my Apple Safari browser on my Intel Mac would work at the company web site. It does sometimes. My boss told me that everything works best with IE8 or newer. The ORACLE software for logging time and doing training does screw up using other browser so I'm forced to use IE, and even that one doesn't always work with the servers. I'm stuck with Windows for now. I only boot it for this job and Netflix.

 

Apple should be bolder about the decision to not update Safari for Windows. In any search for Safari for Windows there should be a page to answer questions. It should say something like; Thank you for wanting to try Safari for your Windows machine. Frankly we recognize your wise choice because the Safari browser is indeed superior and gives a much better experience. Since you are willing to try another browser other than Windows we recommend that you just take another step forward on your journey to a better computing experience and buy a Mac. Imagine not cursing at your computer. Imagine easy access to everything you need. Imaging not needing to tweak your system to get it to function properly. Imagine leaving your computer on for days at a time without it slowing down and needing to be restarted. Imagine updates for your computer that don't require you to restart it multiple times. If you can imaging those things then you can see how your life with a Mac will be much better.

post #45 of 84

Until Apple formally announces it, all of this is just rumor and speculation... which Tim Cook loves, by the way.

post #46 of 84

Bit of a bummer.  Since they had been supporting it for so long I was hoping they'd keep it up.  When in Windows I used it just for the top sites page (which I like).

 

It was the 32 bit version though (it didn't get that big speed and stability boost when Mac safari went 64 bit) and was rickety (earlier releases used to crash in XP and Vista very easily), although recent releases had made it pretty stable (it continues to be a resource hog though).  

 

This is a low key bummer though - I liked it and used it.  Guess I'll be keeping the current version and making sure I download the latest installer before its gone from the web.

post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabon View Post

I'm another person that is forced to use Windows at work. I only use IE when I ***absolutely*** have to.
The rest of the time I use Safari for Windows.
When that doesn't work I use Firefox.
When that doesn't work I use Chrome.
When that doesn't work I use IE.
I really don't want to remove Safari from the list. The rest don't have the fonts that I'm very used to and want to keep. Yes I could figure out mostly how to get the same fonts and look in Firefox (or another browser) but I'm hoping that I don't have to. I hope Apple just doesn't have Safari 6 for Windows ready yet and so they are hiding all versions.
I also know that I could get used to Firefox or Chrome (but never IE which is worse than the idea of dating your own sister or brother - no thanks) if I use them enough. Again, I like the brand I like. I don't want to use another brand until it is *** MY *** choice to switch.
PS: I do have my Retina iPad with me at work. I do use it (along with my Apple bluetooth keyboard that I use with my iPad) sometimes but with five 24" monitors, well one dedicated to Safari (MOSTly for work related work) it is a lot easier to read than the smaller iPad screen. But if pushed and shoved off Safari on Windows I'm more likely to do more of my browsing, even work related things, on my iPad.
----
Written and edited on my iPad.

Why so many browsers? This just seems silly. Firefox has fallen a bit behind, but I'll never voluntarily install the spyware that is Chrome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Well, "Windows 8" is really Windows 7 with Metro stuck on top, so the browser would run exactly the same.  Apple supporting Metro by making a Metro browser would be a bad idea too.  

 

I think this is primarily about the fact that with Chrome on Windows, there's no real reason to have Safari (as the article notes), but also because at this point, making the OS X desktop required for some of the more advanced iOS integration is only going to make Windows look bad and drive more people towards the Mac.  

 

Windows as a consumer OS is definitely failing.  Even people who like Windows and have no problem with it would probably seriously consider switching to OS X if the desktop OS doesn't integrate with their iOS devices now.  

 

I think Apple is really trying hard to drive the emergent perception that "Windows is for work/corporate use" and OS X is for home/consumer use, and I think it's working.  


It's not "as" dominant, yet I think you're buying into the site narrative a bit too much. If you do too much of your reading on here, you're likely to believe that Microsoft is on the verge of bankruptcy. Their problem is one of balancing the issues of stability for large corporate clients that do not like to update constantly with the problem of stagnation. Beyond that they always seem to jump on things late, which is a typical problem with large top heavy companies. Apple is at a point where they have to buy into many things as well via their acquisitions of smaller companies (itunes, ipod, siri, multitouch, etc.), but their track record has been much better.

post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Until Apple formally announces it, all of this is just rumor and speculation... which Tim Cook loves, by the way.

 

You're right about it being speculation - although with the mention of Windows support removed from the Safari web page the likelihood that this is for real is probably pretty high.

 

As to Apple formally announcing it - Apple often doesn't announce changes, they just happen....  If Apple is dropping it, I doubt we'll see or hear a thing (unless it becomes a big deal and they have to say something).

 

Farewell Safari on Windows...you will be missed.

post #49 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

I happen to love Safari on my Windows machines. 

 

This is bad news for me. 

Same here

post #50 of 84
Quote:
However, while adoption of Safari among PC users has been limited, Google's free Chrome browser, based on the same WebKit engine as Safari, has achieved wide distribution, virtually erasing the need for Apple to develop and support its own browser for Windows.

Lol? Nice desperate spin on that one... Google taking revenues coming from a browser successful on the scale of the windows market share sure erase any Apple need to have one... That's perfectly nonsensical.
post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Chrome is never an alternative. Unless you're fine with your information being stolen, of course.
More FUD and plain defamation from a so-called moderator, how lame.

BTW feel free to erase all this Google personal data at will:

http://www.dataliberation.org/
https://www.google.com/takeout/
post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

More FUD and plain defamation from a so-called moderator, how lame.

Defamation of browser? That's a thing?

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post #53 of 84

I found turning off all RSS Feed updates cleared up my most problematic WebKit2WebProcess.exe issues.

 

It's still a bit resource hungry, especially on websites that like to 'Auto-Refresh' the page every X seconds, but is much more stable. Comparing it to Thunderbird which I use as my Email Client, the memory usage is no more extreme than Thunderbird. 

post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post
BTW feel free to erase all this Google personal data at will:

http://www.dataliberation.org/
https://www.google.com/takeout/

 

Er, how? They just give you a copy of it. Google keeps everything.

 

And that doesn't address the actual point; the taking of the data in the first place.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Defamation of browser? That's a thing?
Defamation of the browser publisher, yep that's a thing.
post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Er, how? They just give you a copy of it. Google keeps everything.

And that doesn't address the actual point; the taking of the data in the first place.
Nope you can erase it all on the available services, and you can of course enable/disable many privacy options in Chrome, but you should have noticed if you were not so bent on spreading FUD and lies.

Edit: I almost forgot, here you can monitor all that data "stolen" from you:

http://www.google.com/dashboard
also https://www.google.com/history/
Edited by Sensi - 7/25/12 at 9:15pm
post #57 of 84

I hope Apple keeps Safari for Windows. They shouldn't leave a market unserved. 

post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Nope you can erase it all on the available services, and you can of course enable/disable many privacy options in Chrome, but you should have noticed if you were not so bent on spreading FUD and lies.
Edit: I almost forgot, here you can monitor all that data "stolen" from you:
http://www.google.com/dashboard
also https://www.google.com/history/

 

Prove Google actually deletes anything.

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post #59 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozchris View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

I happen to love Safari on my Windows machines. 

This is bad news for me. 
Same here

And another one
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post #60 of 84

No. Safari is the only browser I use on Windows. Chrome is a good alternative but I can hardly bring myself to say Goo...

Please don't force us to use IE or, gah, Firefox!

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

 

Prove Google actually deletes anything.

and that god exists whilst you're about it.

post #62 of 84
That's a really sad news for me. I used Safari for Windows at work and on my home windows machine which i use mostly for games.

We are allowed to bring and use our own computers at work, many brings their macs with them, but i prefer to use windows machine with Safari installed. I take only my iPad with me.

So, use only Safari on my Macs and PCs. Commonly because i can set the fonts in it to look like it is on the mac. I prefer apple's antialiasing, this is the look and feel of internet for me 1smile.gif

Also, no problems using if on Win7 x64 on Core 2 and 4 gigs of ram.

Hope they'll release a new version or just continue support it like in Snow Leopard and Leopard. (no 6 version as i know?)
post #63 of 84

If it means they can use more OS X frameworks in Safari now, I'm all for it.

 

I don't agree with the article that Apple released Safari for Windows to help spread web standards. That may have been a secondary goal, but the primary reason (as I recall) was that the original iPhone was a web-apps only device, and they released Safari for Windows to let Windows developers write iPhone OS apps. Of course nowadays iOS has a proper SDK and I don't know of many people still writing pure web apps.

post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Me too. I don't know of many Mac users that don't use Safari as their primary browser. In fact, the only one I can think of that won't use it would probably use Terminal and a text-bases browser with ASCII images if that were an option. 😷

I haven't used Safari in years. I used Firefox until they went the 'rapid development' route. Now I use Chrome on my MacPro, MacBookPro, iPhone and iPad. It too syncs my bookmarks, etc. between all devices.

 

It's just a web browser, not a measure of devotion to a company.

post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy View Post

Or Apple is simply waiting to see how Windows 8 pans out. They may have to re-write Safari, or if Windows 8 bombs they simply aren't wasting their time on it.

This very much.

 

If you notice, Safari (and Chrome) are still 32bit on Windows, and Chrome is a horribly bloated pig no matter what OS is being used. You only get 64-bit in Nightly Firefox, or Internet Explorer. But the 32-bit version of IE is used by default on Windows. It would be best if Microsoft does not release another 32bit-x86 OS as an OEM version (upgrade only) as doing so is just going to keep holding back developers from making 64bit software.

 

Herein lies the elephant in the room on the Windows platform. Developers are not moving forward, they're just inching ahead when the OS forces them to. On the Mac, you see the same kind of hold outs (Carbon API anyone?) If with Windows 8 Microsoft is trying to pull an Apple and drop MFC with Metro and .NET, and C/C++ with C#. You see this with the Express editions of the C++ compiler not being equipped to compile MFC, only .NET. frameworks.

 

PS: I've only ever used MFC to compile windows apps from source, I had to install the windows DDK to do so. Why doesn't Microsoft relent and just include everything you need to compile ANY C/C++ application in the operating system, since windows doesn't come with a system compiler, it's the only platform you can't just "download the source and hit compile"

 

Safari on Windows performs exactly the same as Chrome, if not somewhat better. But this is only because Safari doesn't span 2 instances per tab and gobble up RAM like Chrome does. If Firefox ever releases a 64-bit firefox as a release version, I'm switching back to Firefox. I only switched to Chrome because I needed a browser that could still run flash back when Adobe took their sweet time releasing a 64bit flash plugin for it.

 

The mobile side, Webkit pretty much has a monopoly. If you don't develop your websites on Chrome or Safari, you probably won't have them work as expected on the iPad/iPhone/Android/Blackberry platforms.

post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Nope you can erase it all on the available services, and you can of course enable/disable many privacy options in Chrome, but you should have noticed if you were not so bent on spreading FUD and lies.
Edit: I almost forgot, here you can monitor all that data "stolen" from you:
http://www.google.com/dashboard
also https://www.google.com/history/

does Google really delete Data?... or do they just flag it "not for display?".
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

It should say something like; Thank you for wanting to try Safari for your Windows machine. Frankly we recognize your wise choice because the Safari browser is indeed superior and gives a much better experience. Since you are willing to try another browser other than Windows we recommend that you just take another step forward on your journey to a better computing experience and buy a Mac. 

 

I think that WAS one of the points of Windows Safari - to give Windows users a glimpse of how things worked on the Mac side and convince them to make the switch.

 

Unfortunately, Safari for Windows is dead clunky compared to the OS X version. There was a risk that it was giving an inaccurate impression of Mac software. That, combined with its continuing poor market share, were good reasons to kill it. iPad and iPhone do a better job of converting Windows users to Mac than Safari ever could.

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

Why would any Windows user bother to install Safari?  Is there anything unique about it?

 

 

It allows the truest representation of iOS rendering, short of owning the real thing, for testing purposes.  All the third-party emulators seem to have their own idiosyncrasies.

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post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

and that god exists whilst you're about it.

 

I don't know that I can prove God exists, not to anyone's satisfaction anyway, but a good divorce attorney could subpoena a so-called "deleted" Google search history in about 72 hours.

 

And, yes, those are opposite ends of the spectrum...  700

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply
post #70 of 84

Well Safari was used by by probably less than 2% of Windows users, if so much, so from a business perspective of using resources to develop something and test something that nobody uses, Apple did the right thing. What's the point having engineers working on something nobody is gonna use? 

post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post
Well Safari was used by by probably less than 2% of Windows users, if so much, so from a business perspective of using resources to develop something and test something that nobody uses, Apple did the right thing. What's the point having engineers working on something nobody is gonna use? 

 

I see the trolls are awake.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I see the trolls are awake.

How is this trolling? Its common sense. Its just like any company would kill a product that doesn't make sense in the market. 

 

Apple gives it away for free. But there are engineers that have to code and test the thing as well as do multiple updates and bugfixes. What's the point when practically nobody in windows land uses it?

 

Not saying its a bad browser, just saying chrome, IE and firefox have pretty much sewn up the windows browser market. 

 

Economics.

 

It IS however, VERY popular on Mac. Just not so much on windows. 

post #73 of 84

I remember reading in Jobs' biography that he wanted iTunes (and other Mac SW) only available for Mac and eventually relented. I guess things have come full circle.

post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I see the trolls are awake.

 

It's not trolling. It's pragmatic truth.

 

According to these stats, Safari has a 4.7% market share overall on the desktop, where OS X itself has a 6.7% market share. Given that Safari is the default browser on the Mac and has platform-specific advantages, realistically, how much of that 4.7% do you think comprises Windows users? I'm guessing it's 0.5% or less.

 

Even a company the size of Apple doesn't have infinite engineering resources to throw at projects which just aren't taking off. Safari on Windows is a failure. Why not reallocate the resources to the wildly successful Mobile Safari?

 

If the project was a success then why did Apple can it?


Edited by Euphonious - 7/26/12 at 8:43am
post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Well, "Windows 8" is really Windows 7 with Metro stuck on top, so the browser would run exactly the same.  Apple supporting Metro by making a Metro browser would be a bad idea too.  

 

I think this is primarily about the fact that with Chrome on Windows, there's no real reason to have Safari (as the article notes), but also because at this point, making the OS X desktop required for some of the more advanced iOS integration is only going to make Windows look bad and drive more people towards the Mac.  

 

Windows as a consumer OS is definitely failing.  Even people who like Windows and have no problem with it would probably seriously consider switching to OS X if the desktop OS doesn't integrate with their iOS devices now.  

 

I think Apple is really trying hard to drive the emergent perception that "Windows is for work/corporate use" and OS X is for home/consumer use, and I think it's working.  

I apologize for the threadjack, but I think you're being a little dismissive of Windows 8.

 

We've been screwing around with it at work.  I do my CAD and such on my Mac Pro, but one of the IT guys threw the Win8 preview on a few of the older Athlons in the bullpen and it's breathed new life back into them.  I actually like Windows 8 BECAUSE it's reminiscent of OSX.  They've made moving things onto the "quick bar" at the bottom similar in function and scope to OSX.  The Metro UI is essentially a skinned version of the launchpad.

 

Win 8 has definitely made my computing time away from my Macs more bearable.  I hope Apple releases a Win8 version of Safari, Windows users would benefit.

 

Also, at the risk of sounding argumentative, there's hardly any real threat of a mass exodus of Windows users when Win 8 comes out.  Microsoft's worst case scenario is a low adoption rate that barely breaks even.  Their OEM partners will push Windows 8, and in my opinion it's a great option for WinXP machines that don't quite have the juice to run Win7 smoothly.

post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

This very much.

 

If you notice, Safari (and Chrome) are still 32bit on Windows, and Chrome is a horribly bloated pig no matter what OS is being used. You only get 64-bit in Nightly Firefox, or Internet Explorer. But the 32-bit version of IE is used by default on Windows. It would be best if Microsoft does not release another 32bit-x86 OS as an OEM version (upgrade only) as doing so is just going to keep holding back developers from making 64bit software.

 

Herein lies the elephant in the room on the Windows platform. Developers are not moving forward, they're just inching ahead when the OS forces them to. On the Mac, you see the same kind of hold outs (Carbon API anyone?) If with Windows 8 Microsoft is trying to pull an Apple and drop MFC with Metro and .NET, and C/C++ with C#. You see this with the Express editions of the C++ compiler not being equipped to compile MFC, only .NET. frameworks.

 

PS: I've only ever used MFC to compile windows apps from source, I had to install the windows DDK to do so. Why doesn't Microsoft relent and just include everything you need to compile ANY C/C++ application in the operating system, since windows doesn't come with a system compiler, it's the only platform you can't just "download the source and hit compile"

 

Safari on Windows performs exactly the same as Chrome, if not somewhat better. But this is only because Safari doesn't span 2 instances per tab and gobble up RAM like Chrome does. If Firefox ever releases a 64-bit firefox as a release version, I'm switching back to Firefox. I only switched to Chrome because I needed a browser that could still run flash back when Adobe took their sweet time releasing a 64bit flash plugin for it.

 

The mobile side, Webkit pretty much has a monopoly. If you don't develop your websites on Chrome or Safari, you probably won't have them work as expected on the iPad/iPhone/Android/Blackberry platforms.


That is a great perspective. 

 

People often complain when Apple forces people to upgrade at what some consumers would deem arbitrary intervals, but it does help them in the long run.  One of the best and worst things about Windows is that Microsoft lets you get away with using legacy tech for MUCH longer.  It used to irk me when there would be an OSX upgrade, and a program I liked suddenly no longer worked.  But as I looked at it more and more, Apple was forcing people to adopt features that might not otherwise get used.  Microsoft  (or any developer really) could have probably made a better go at some of it's less than successful products if they'd adopted a similar strategy earlier on.

post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I see the trolls are awake.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

 

It's not trolling. It's pragmatic truth.

 

According to these stats, Safari has a 4.7% market share overall on the desktop, where OS X itself has a 6.7% market share. Given that Safari is the default browser on the Mac and has platform-specific advantages, realistically, how much of that 4.7% do you think comprises Windows users? I'm guessing it's 0.5% or less.

 

Even a company the size of Apple doesn't have infinite engineering resources to throw at projects which just aren't taking off. Safari on Windows is a failure. Why not reallocate the resources to the wildly successful Mobile Safari?

 

If the project was a success then why did Apple can it?

lol.... POW!

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
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post #78 of 84
Good choice. Leave Windows to rot in its decrepitude.
post #79 of 84

With Mountain Lion it's the first time I ever thought of leaving Chrome for Safari, but I need synchronized bookmarks, so I guess I have to stay with Chrome then. :(

post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoDK View Post

With Mountain Lion it's the first time I ever thought of leaving Chrome for Safari, but I need synchronized bookmarks, so I guess I have to stay with Chrome then. 1frown.gif

Synchronized with what?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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