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Apple wants to create iPhone-based automated homes - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Yes but does a pickpocket stick around close to his victim? The hacks aren't instantaneous, once out of the frequency field the connection is lost as is the hack.

 

Soooo, standing on a crowded T sounds like the perfect place for the latest techno pick pocket.  I imagine you can get a lot done in a few seconds with an automated script, especially once phones start replacing wallets.

 

And so the issues on security and privacy continue to surge...

post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009 View Post

Soooo, standing on a crowded T sounds like the perfect place for the latest techno pick pocket.  I imagine you can get a lot done in a few seconds with an automated script, especially once phones start replacing wallets.

And so the issues on security and privacy continue to surge...

That would do but one also has to find someone actively using their phone. The odds of getting hacked are slim but they're not zero, and it'll get patched just like any other vulnerability.
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post #43 of 58

Was this patent release a mistake, or is the new iPhone (or other device) nearing release? If Apple is not planning this release for the fall, but perhaps a year or more later, then the publication of this patent now gives competitors as significant head start. If, however, Apple will release, say an iPhone and other devices, in the fall, then this patent publication will have little effect but to 1) stop Windows 8 in its tracks will trying to come up with an answer, 2) stop Samsung and Android for the same reason, 3) cause filing of lawsuits by Google, Samsung, Microsoft to try to void the patents.

post #44 of 58
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post
Was this patent release a mistake, or is the new iPhone (or other device) nearing release?

 

I don't see what this patent has to do with a new iPhone.

 

 If Apple is not planning this release for the fall, but perhaps a year or more later, then the publication of this patent now gives competitors as significant head start.
 

To do what? Apple has the patent.

 

If, however, Apple will release, say an iPhone and other devices, in the fall, then this patent publication will have little effect but to 1) stop Windows 8 in its tracks will trying to come up with an answer, 2) stop Samsung and Android for the same reason, 3) cause filing of lawsuits by Google, Samsung, Microsoft to try to void the patents.

 

This patent implies a truly massive ecosystem and infrastructure of appliances. There will have to be "AirHome compatible" licensing, it will take years upon years for products to show up on the market, and then decades more for people to actually switch out old appliances with new ones. 


Releasing an iPhone with this capability is meaningless unless you have that backing.

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Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Yes but does a pickpocket stick around close to his victim? The hacks aren't instantaneous, once out of the frequency field the connection is lost as is the hack.

 

Trivial to do on public transit or at, say, a ball game, concert or bar, and since no physical contact is necessary with, nor is anything physical actually taken from, the victim, it's not exactly like the electronic pickpocket needs to leave the area for fear of discovery.

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


That would do but one also has to find someone actively using their phone. The odds of getting hacked are slim but they're not zero, and it'll get patched just like any other vulnerability.

 

Patched how? The vast majority of Android phones never even see a single OS update.

post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I don't see what this patent has to do with a new iPhone.

 

To do what? Apple has the patent.

 

 

This patent implies a truly massive ecosystem and infrastructure of appliances. There will have to be "AirHome compatible" licensing, it will take years upon years for products to show up on the market, and then decades more for people to actually switch out old appliances with new ones. 


Releasing an iPhone with this capability is meaningless unless you have that backing.

 

What does it have to do with a new iPhone. A new iPhone will have the functions described in the patent. Isn't that obvious?

 

What does the new patent have to do with competitors? If the patent is viable (or even if it is not), then competitors see what Apple has in its future plans. Invaluable, and worthy of NDAs. Competitors now have the time and review the patent, determine its weaknesses and holes, then design around them to create their own devices that can compete.

 

Massive ecosystem and infrastructure is coming much more rapidly. It's not decades but a few years before something like this is ubiquitous. Apple can design devices, and produce some of these products themselves such as a new Apple TV, a real Apple-brand TV, all their computer products. There are digital thermostats, one which had been sold from Apple store and recently withdrawn -- I wonder why!  Apple can also allow FRAND licensing to companies to make compatible devices (that would not compete with Apple products). There is now a little hobby industry out there based on the Arduino, some projects are at http://hacknmod.com/hack/top-40-arduino-projects-of-the-web/ that is ripe for Apple-created standards. And the industry generally is waiting for Apple to validate new payment methods using NFC -- it's balkanized as this time. 

 

My guess, very strong, because who else will be able to pull it off, Apple will be coming out with the RFID, NFC iPhone for use in retail stores. Here is an interview by Ron Johnson, current CEO of JCPenney, formerly of Apple, discussing his vision of where JCPenney will be before the year is out, and what 2013 changes will occur. http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2012/07/18/bst-johnson-jcpenney.fortune/?iid=obnetwork. Apple, and Apple Stores are mentioned often. Hint, Hint.


Edited by waldobushman - 7/27/12 at 7:52pm
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009 View Post

Nice.  You know how some of the new cars use a keyless entry?  I want that for my home, and for everything I use (where applicable).  Just obvious things, like turning lights on when I enter a room, dimming them at certain times, unlocking my front door as I approach and locking it when I leave, turning the AC on and off from a control panel on my phone, and, yes, remote toilet flushing.

 

You can do some of that right now without NFC. Things like the Nest show us this idea. It wouldn't be that hard for someone to take those old style light dimmers from the 80s and 90s and make them into something that could connect to wifi and make an app. Perhaps even Nest will do it and put that control into the same app.

 

And yes someone could create a toilet with an electronic flush for home use. I would go for something like that. Especially if it had a sensor that could show me if someone was on the toilet like the public ones have. I could see from the app that the sensor was tripped at 11:07 am again at 11:10 am (presumably the departure) but as of 11:30 am no one had flushed the toilet. I could surmise from that that the user was one of my cats (potty trained by not flush trained) and I could remotely flush it (repeating throughout the day) so then when I get home the place doesn't smell of old poop from a days worth of visits. 

 

We could also have remote sprinklers etc. Even perhaps an app that would allow for turning on the inside/outside lights based on your location as you arrive close to your home and then in the driveway rather than based on a time. Great for me since my days can go from 10 hours to 16 hours while I"m at work so I'd end up with my lights on costing me money for hours I"m not there (same with my heat and AC)

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post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilroot9 View Post

So what this article is telling me is that the iPhone 5 will have a NFC chip in it.

 

Not at all. They could decide that wifi and bluetooth 4.0 are fine. They could still be looking at NFC but feel it isn't ready yet an won't be for another year or even perhaps 2. Or even if NFC is ready, securing things isn't. Consider that they could go to keyless house entry where you use an NFC chip in place of a key. But what if your iPhone is stolen and somehow the person figures out where you live. They could use your phone to get inside unless there's a way to make sure it is you. PERHAPS this Amatech or whatever that company is that Apple just started a purchase attempt for (that doesn't fingerprint systems) is part of that side of things. But Apple needs to get the sale approved and the tech worked into the system. That's 2013 for sure. 

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post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilroot9 View Post

The issue with just straight bluetooth is that the apps need to support "everything" otherwise people will be mad, that's why Apple just creates a controller and give the code out.  That way it sells tons.  That's their game plan for sure, make more Billions.

 

But then folks don't like the way Apple designed the controller. It's too PS3 when the N64 one is way better etc

 

So more likely Apple puts in the support for a controller to be used and lets others license what they need so they make the controllers not Apple. Apple's controller might just stick with the whole use your iPhone as a handheld with an iPad game via wifi/bluetooth or have either device airplay it to a tv like Real Racing HD does, either alone or in some kind of combo (iPhone is the steering wheel, track map on your iPad, first person POV on your TV)

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post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilroot9 View Post

Yes, you are correct, but if you will be able to "control" everything with your iPhone, they need to put it into either this or the next. With passbook as their headline for this new phone, they will need NFC to help sell this new phone (give passbook unseen features?).  They can't let android get to far ahead in this catagory.

 

Passbook is brand new, hasn't been massively field tested and have little to no current support from the other side. THey won't be looking to put NFC in it at this point. The Starbucks app style of barcodes and QR codes to be scanned will be fine for stage one. Then when they have more folks in the game and the kinks of that much of the deal worked out then they might add NFC. Classic Apple tactics

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post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Was this patent release a mistake, or is the new iPhone (or other device) nearing release? If Apple is not planning this release for the fall, but perhaps a year or more later, then the publication of this patent now gives competitors as significant head start. If, however, Apple will release, say an iPhone and other devices, in the fall, then this patent publication will have little effect but to 1) stop Windows 8 in its tracks will trying to come up with an answer, 2) stop Samsung and Android for the same reason, 3) cause filing of lawsuits by Google, Samsung, Microsoft to try to void the patents.

It was already part of a Google push, with a preview of Android@Home early last year. It's not as tho Apple just came up with an idea no one else had thought of yet, so there's no secret that's been outed. This video around the 43 minute mark. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bZj4ekSbZ8

 

Verizon is also working with the same general ideas or controlling your routine home functions like A/C, lighting, security and the like.

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post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

People sometimes think that automation will make their life easier when in fact the opposite is often true. When you walk into a room, the light switch is conveniently right by the door. You, on the other hand, want to get your iPhone out of your pocket launch an app or hold the iPhone up to the switch and let the NFC switch the light. In either case it just adds complexity.

 

What Apple has done in this patent makes a little more sense in that it controls devices that also have menus and settings

 

those switches aren't always by the door. Depends on who designed the place. I've lived in some apartments that had horrid placement. 

 

As for pulling out your iPhone, if this was all baked into the system then whose to say that we couldn't Siri it. many of us have our iPhone on the passenger seat or in a mount. or might have one of those siri buttons on the steering wheel that are supposed to be happening soon. So you just "Siri, turn on the living room lights" as you are getting ready to make that turn into the driveway. 

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post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

While the TV rumors have been around longer, I think the iPhone nano is still the biggest red herring right now.

 

TV and iPad mini are very close to catching up, though.

 

The iPhone nano was supposed to be to have a cheap model. The 3gs/4/4s lineup covered that issue. 

 

The alleged ipad mini is likely to turn out to be a revamp on the iPod touch. And the TV will probably turn out to be a  new Retina Cinema display with the anti-glare used in the RMBP, HDMI inputs and a second or even third choice of sizes. 

 

But even after they launch someone will claim there will still be an iPad mini and still a 'real' tv

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post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


True. Having said that a Dick Tracyesque iPhone Nano on your wrist design by Apple might be a massive success!

 

if all you do is make phone calls and text perhaps. but it would be rather useless for anything else

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post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Was this patent release a mistake, or is the new iPhone (or other device) nearing release? If Apple is not planning this release for the fall, but perhaps a year or more later, then the publication of this patent now gives competitors as significant head start. If, however, Apple will release, say an iPhone and other devices, in the fall, then this patent publication will have little effect but to 1) stop Windows 8 in its tracks will trying to come up with an answer, 2) stop Samsung and Android for the same reason, 3) cause filing of lawsuits by Google, Samsung, Microsoft to try to void the patents.

 

Patents these days are generally on implementation not ideas so depending on the wording they couldn't stop someone from trying to produce the same idea. And it can be a good thing sometimes for Google etc to try something and get so so results so then Apple comes in with their version that is much better. It's a classic Apple move. 

 

And yet by this patent filing being public info no one came 'create' this later and not know that Apple thought of it first. Regardless of who gets it to market first. 

 

Patents often go public way before a physical object that uses it comes out but even if it happens that Apple is about to go 'live' with something in this vein during the next iPhone or even next iPad launch in early 2013, there's little change that anyone could start from scratch and beat them to market with something good, decent might even be a stretch. Look at what happened with Google tried to beat Apple to a maps announcement off the rumors that that was part of WWDC. That announcement was horrid. it was sloppy, buggy etc. You could tell they rushed to push up something they were likely saving for their own IO event 2-3 weeks later and the materials weren't ready yet. 

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post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

Trivial to do on public transit or at, say, a ball game, concert or bar, and since no physical contact is necessary with, nor is anything physical actually taken from, the victim, it's not exactly like the electronic pickpocket needs to leave the area for fear of discovery.

 

Don't you watch Person of Interest. He does this soft of thing all the time. And TV shows never lie so it must be real. And really easy since it takes him like 2 seconds to do it

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post #58 of 58

am I the only one, who is kind of scared about all that technological devices?!^^
 

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