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Blizzard joins Valve in panning Microsoft's Windows 8 - Page 2

post #41 of 56

I guess they are concerned that punters will buy w8rt units  rather than newer PCs with better graphics etc,(ie. the W8 intel units). AFAIK RT won't allow sideloading or the crappy background software that these guys use. So yes I can see that they are worried that they will lose 30% of their profit to MS.

post #42 of 56

So Microsoft creating a "Mac Store/App Store" type integrated store to their OS is going to ruin gaming? Because it will hurt Valve and Blizzard's profits if people prefer the Windows Store to Steam or whatever the Blizzard store is called, it therefore hurts gaming as a whole?

post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

I'm in the same boat as you. Why is Windows 8 a "catastrophe" and "not awesome" for Valve and Blizzard? There have been multiple software storefronts online for years and people have figured out how to get their games. Metro shouldn't affect the user's access or interface with the games themselves. Is there some sort of driver issue? Major file structure change? Permissions or access change? Programming language change? License to develop cost?

 

What information is not being presented that makes Win8 so terrible? Otherwise, this isn't news, it's just trolls trolling Win8 before it's out.

I'm not sure. If they aren't prevented from using their normal distribution methods, there shouldn't be a problem. Much of the anti-Windows 8 rhetoric seems to be noise. Regarding metro, I recall MS retaining the ability to use the classic ui.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


It may be a case of having no choice. If Win8 is so bad games can't play reliably the they will need alternatives. In the end I wouldn't be surprised to find one or more game company team up to produce a Linux distro just for games.

I highly doubt this is true. I don't think any company would screw themselves in such a manner, especially when Windows has always seen better game developer support. I am a little disappointed that ML still doesn't support the latest OpenGL.

 

I should note that has nothing to do with gaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apfeltosh View Post

Same here. Corporations do not upgrade OS unless there is a tangible value attached to it. Consumers try to keep up with the Jones, IT departments with limited budgets are not interested in the latest fad, because they cannot afford to be,


There's no reason for them to spend both the costs of licensing and updating functionality across their network + upgrading applications unless it offers a tangible improvement. Stability tends to take priority over the latest thing. In the same sense I wouldn't suggest anyone upgrade to ML until everything they use is updated and a couple bugs are sorted.

post #44 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst View Post

I agree with you completely. I've always thought, as have most people in the industry, that MS should just ditch Metro all together for Win8. Opposite is true for WinRT. Why the freak can you get to the Win 8 desktop in RT? That's just stupid. They can have similar underpinnings, but they are two different platforms that cannot be shoved down everyone's throat. It's a mess. 

 

BTW - Lion wasn't a mess, quite stable actually and not that much different than ML. I don't hear any body still b!tching about the natural/unnatural scrolling anymore. People just like to b!tch about something. They don't like change. Change is good, as long as it's executed well and for good reason. But MS's efforts is just change for change's sake. 

 

Microsoft is trying to force the horrid Metro interface down everyones throat via their illegally obtained desktop OS monopoly with the thought people would then buy the failed Microsoft Windows Phone OS as they would be used to the abomination of Metro. 

post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post

Yeah, what isn't clear from either of these statements is exactly what is it about Windows 8 that's such a disaster? I mean maybe Metro sucks, but what's that got to do with gaming..?

Exactly. I recently built a new gaming PC. I started with the windows 8 preview since it was freely available. It actually performed well, but the ham fisted slathering of Metro on top was annoying, so I took advantage of a newegg sale and scored a copy of Windows 7.

I formatted over the system and reinstalled. Imagine my surprise when Windows 7, on the exact same hardware, performed worse! Much worse! Switching back to the beta Nvidia driver I was using wih Win 8 helped quite a bit, but I still get video artifacts and performance issues I didn't see under Win 8. Dispute my loathing of the Metro layer, I may take advantage of the $20 upgrade when it comes out, and I'm tempted to rliad the latest preview again - its that annoying....
post #46 of 56

You're correct.  Apple and Microsoft are beginning the process of "locking down" the PC.  This will reduce malware and piracy (in theory).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

Hmmmm, now that I think about it.

 

Someone correct me If I'm wrong, but I think This is how it was mentioned: Wasn't the Windows 8 store supposed to be a "locked down" platform for the Metro apps only(security reasons)? To my memory, I recall Desktop Applications being able to be advertised on the store, but it was specified that Only metro apps would be subject to the approval processes and such, whereas the X86 version pretty much remains as it has always been allowing standard independent installs.

 

Again, I may have remembered it wrong, so feel free to correct if so.
 

post #47 of 56

Exactly.  Gruber pisses me off because he's so cocky about Apple, like he had anything personal to do with their recent success.  I'd love to have a job where I just sit around all day and copy-and-paste other people's work saying I agree or disagree.

 

I've been here for a few years and realize many of you are long on APPL which is fine.  But the "Apple can do no wrong" attitude that some of you project is as nutty as religious zealotry.  Every platform has its strengths and weaknesses.  And competition benefits us all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDisco View Post

What is the point of this article other then to snark on Microsoft? This is an Apple-centric news site. Leave the subtle commentary to someone else. Almost as bad a Daring Fireball spending all day shitting on Amazon's Q2 earnings and comparing it to Apple as if it is some sort of fair comparison

 

I greatly enjoy Apple products, but the back-patting on some of these sites offering Apple coverage is just getting oppressive and completely off topic as to make them useless. 

post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

I guess they are concerned that punters will buy w8rt units  rather than newer PCs with better graphics etc,(ie. the W8 intel units). AFAIK RT won't allow sideloading or the crappy background software that these guys use. So yes I can see that they are worried that they will lose 30% of their profit to MS.

 

RT won't play any of their games, unless they re-encode them to be able to run on ARM.  I don't expect WoW to be running on ARM.  I don't know what sideloading you mean and the background software you are referring to is what they are using to make sure there is no cheating happening.  Again, all of this would function in Metro if they would re-encode it to run on ARM and sold it thru the MS store.  They won't and their games will stay full Windows 8 only.  It won't be anything that really affects them in the end b/c I don't anticipate the Surface to actually sell all that well.  People still want to get to play their games and they will buy what they need to to accomplish that.  Maybe in a few years ARM might be tough enough to run full desktop style MMOs, but not anytime soon.

post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Eh. Functionally, Windows 8 is fine, and even has some nice new features versus 7. It's also been very stable right from the get go, so no complaints there. Metro is the real issue here, and MS needs to realize that what is probably good for a touch interface is cumbersome shit with a mouse and keyboard. I understand they are going for cross platform parity and functionality, much like Apple with their Mountain Lion and iOS 6, but I have the sneaking suspicion that Service Pack 1 will allow users to ditch Metro in favor of the classic Start Button layout they are familiar and comfortable with.

 

I won't be upgrading this cycle, because 7 is doing great for me right now, and the new functionality of 8 isn't worth even the reduced price to upgrade.

 

My thinking is that generally Microsoft's enterprise customers are not going to move to Windows 8 for the very same reasons you mentioned. I think that's where the "catastrophe" will be. Microsoft has poured all this money into developing Win 8 and will be pouring millions more into promoting it, and it will hit the market with a dull thud.

 

Pure Karma will be seeing Microsoft making more money selling "Office" to Apple customers then they do on selling Win 8.
 

post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post

Yeah, what isn't clear from either of these statements is exactly what is it about Windows 8 that's such a disaster? I mean maybe Metro sucks, but what's that got to do with gaming..?

From what I can see, nothing in particular will change from Blizzard and Valve's points of view...

What am I missing here?

Not sure about Blizzard, but selling 3rd party games through Steam is Valve's bread and butter. They might fear lots of smaller developers will shift toward Windows Marketplace as MS needs to grow it quickly in order to achieve competitiveness to Apple's and Google's stores, so they might offer better deals to developers than what Steam does. Steam exists by making money of 3rd party games sales - Valve games are too few. MS doesn't even need to make money from selling others games on Marketplace, as long as it is improving sales of their OS and hardware, and their partners hardware. Might be something else, but however you spin it, there will be extra competition in electronic games distribution for Windows, and that extra competition will be coming from Windows makers themselves - if that is not reason to be nervous, can't say what is.

In addition, Valve and MS already had little situation where MS denied connection between Steam and Xbox Live, for Portal 2. Sony accepted same offer and, as result, Portal 2 on PS3 received more love from Valve and ended up better game (visually), with additional benefit of PS3 gamers on PSN being able to co-op with Windows gamers on Steam, plus every PS3 copy of the game came with code for free download of PC version of the game.

You can imagine that didn't make MS happy, and I'd say there wasn't much love between them since...
post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

AFTER playing it for 500+ hours.  Yeah, real catastrophe. /s  Also you're Nearly a year late to the Pandaren expansion announcement.  The only announcement recently was the street date.  The expansion announcement was 10.21.11 at the last BlizzCon.


Also, was there some extra tweeting by Pardo not linked up in this article?  B/c I'm not seeing that 40% of people going to Linux that people are throwing around in some comments.  Or was that something Gabe said that Pardo didn't comment on one bit?  

And how many hours people have clocked up say on D2, 5000? 50,000? 500,000? With number of players dropped by 70% + in less then 2 months of release, calling it a catastrophe is an understatement.

Now take you blizz $5 and go troll somewhere else.
post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parvin View Post

It took Blizzard about 15 years to release Diablo 3: a game which has proven so unpopular and disappointing among the otherwise devoted Blizzard community that hardcore fanboys have already stopped playing the game (just check out the battle.net forums for a glimpse of the carnage). They have now followed this up by announcing a new World of Warcraft expansion about pandas.

 

Frankly, i'm not trusting blizzard's judgment on anything right now. 

So unpopular that it's become one of the biggest selling PC games of all time. 6.3 million copies last I heard, not including the 1.2 million that WoW players got for signing up for the Annual Pass. 

 

And Pandarans, the characters in WoW: Mists of Pandaria, have been a long, long time request by fans - it also adds 5 more levels of content, a new class, a new continent, a new focus on the story, and several new end-game play methods (gear-normalized timed dungeon challenge runs, PVE scenarios where pairs or trios of players can work to do smaller, less dungeon-like events, and Pet Battles, where the non-combat pets players have collected for years now can fight each other in Pokemon-style fights, complete with trainers, RPG-style leveling, ect.)

 

And this is all with Titan, their known-but-unannounced next-gen MMO in the horizon.

 

I wouldn't worry. 

post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeasar View Post


And how many hours people have clocked up say on D2, 5000? 50,000? 500,000? With number of players dropped by 70% + in less then 2 months of release, calling it a catastrophe is an understatement.
Now take you blizz $5 and go troll somewhere else.

 

So I pointed out completely wrong things someone else was claiming as fact and I get called a troll?  Yeah right.  BTW, 500,000 hours is more than 57 years.  That would be quite the feat.  Where are you getting the 70% less users data also?  Also, still not seeing anyone point to where Pardo has claimed 40% of users will goto Linux to avoid Windows 8.  Your post had as much hyperbole as the post I was responding to in the first place.

post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

The "catastrophe" would be the 30% slice that  MS would take from the W8 RT MarketPlace sales.

Unless the revenue gets to 25k, then it drops to 20%
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post #55 of 56

I just realized what Gabe and Blizzard mean when they say this, and why they think it's a disaster. Where would you get WOW right now if you wanted to play it? You'd go to their website and download it. But with Windows app store you can't do that. So Microsoft is taking away their right to distribute their own games... I can see why they're pissed about that. 

But I started thinking about it more. Microsoft will be taking 30% of application sales! Even 20% is a big chunk down the road. And I wondered, who's going to pay that extra 30%/20%? Us. It's a Microsoft tax, and it's either a tax on developers or a tax on us. Because developers will either take the hit or we will. And don't go saying anything about them being able to be a classic desktop app. That's like forcing them to be a 2nd rate citizen on their platform of choice just because they want to distribute how they want and charge how much they want. 

Say no to Microsoft Tax! It has no place on our desktops.


Edited by g1i1ch - 7/30/12 at 2:05pm
post #56 of 56
Originally Posted by g1i1ch View Post
So Microsoft is taking away their right to distribute their own games... 

 

No, that's not what is happening. 


Microsoft will be taking 30% of application sales! Say no to Microsoft Tax! It has no place on our desktops


Apple has done the same thing since the start of the iTunes Store. They do it for apps, books, applications… You don't see people complaining about that.

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