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Apple Genius ads debut during Olympic opening ceremonies - Page 8

post #281 of 318

I will start by saying I have not read all the comments so if somebody has already said this, I apologize.  While these may not be the best ads Apple has ever had I think they are interesting.  Unlike with the Windows platform when you call for help you are relayed to a person who's English is hardly passable and uses terms one may not be familiar with.  These ads would mean to say that if an Apple user were to need help there is a friendly person available to help them with their needs.

post #282 of 318
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post
Show an athlete in a advertisement? Says who?

 

Probably the same committee that said a pub in London had to change its name to "The lympic" during the games.

post #283 of 318

OK Here's a rough layout Of an Apple Store  Within a Best Buy Store

 

Everything in  green eccept the physical plant is owned, staffed and managed by Apple.

 

The Best Buy and Apple Showroom Floors are separated buy a Glass wall (like standard Plate Glass Windows)

 

Any walls would be 8-9 feet tall and would not extend to the ceiling or interfere with lighting HVAC, etc.

 

There is a door between the Best Buy and Apple Showrooms -- so the customers can go back and forth.

 

There is a separate door to the outside to enter and leave the Apple store.

 

The Best Buy Checkout Guy can check the bags of anyone leaving the Best Buy Showroom -- either through the Best Buy Front Door or the Door to the Apple Store Showroom

 

Apple does not use the services of the Best Buy Checkout guy -- they have better, less intrusive ways.

 

These are not shown to scale -- the Apple Store would be a small store... I suspect that all the furniture, fixtures and inventory could be shipped in 4-5 shipping containers.  If the back rooms aren't separate, Apple's Inventory can be stored and secured in 1-2 shipping containers.

 

 

1000


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/29/12 at 6:55pm
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post #284 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post

I will start by saying I have not read all the comments so if somebody has already said this, I apologize.  While these may not be the best ads Apple has ever had I think they are interesting.  Unlike with the Windows platform when you call for help you are relayed to a person who's English is hardly passable and uses terms one may not be familiar with.  These ads would mean to say that if an Apple user were to need help there is a friendly person available to help them with their needs.

 

Good post... you summed it up and avoided all the cruft!

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post #285 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post

I will start by saying I have not read all the comments so if somebody has already said this, I apologize.  While these may not be the best ads Apple has ever had I think they are interesting.  Unlike with the Windows platform when you call for help you are relayed to a person who's English is hardly passable and uses terms one may not be familiar with.  These ads would mean to say that if an Apple user were to need help there is a friendly person available to help them with their needs.

 

Don't forget they can also try to palm you off to the OEM, there's a schism between hardware and software

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post #286 of 318
Those are perfectly good ads .... for most companies. For Apple, they are terrible. Apple ads have always been about associating a product with the Apple brand - except the Think Different campaign, which established the brand identity. People who start excusing Apple for not being great are just allowing mediocrity to seep back into its culture. Schiller should be rejecting such things. He may not know what the perfect ad is, but he should know when he sees one that isn't.
post #287 of 318

@ Dick Applebaum > So back to that Marty Scorcese iPad spot, can't he afford a car and driver with all his cabbage at this stage in his life? And after his rendezvous suppose he can't find a taxi in rush hour and gets mugged by a wino who steals his iPhone? Maybe Marty could make it back to his Soho film complex and use "Find My iPhone" on his MB Air to locate the mugger and recover his precious iPhone... At least Steve had a sense of humor which is more than can be said about you!

post #288 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

Those are perfectly good ads .... for most companies. For Apple, they are terrible. Apple ads have always been about associating a product with the Apple brand - except the Think Different campaign, which established the brand identity. People who start excusing Apple for not being great are just allowing mediocrity to seep back into its culture. Schiller should be rejecting such things. He may not know what the perfect ad is, but he should know when he sees one that isn't.

Help me with your credibility. What are your marketing credentials?

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #289 of 318

I'm going to have to vote down as well.    Apple Geniuses should not be necessary to figure out how to perform basic functions of Apple's software, which is supposed to be easy to use.     Unless the idea of the ad was to make "older" people, and by older, I mean people 35-45, feel like they should need help from a Genius.

 

IMO, the ad should have shown that using Apple software is so easy, the Geniuses aren't needed.   You could have had a situation where the person thinks they need a Genius, but then they use the app on their own and they don't let the Genius get a word in.    Then they thank the Genius for being so helpful.    

 

Another ad could have shown a Genius in the store with someone trying to stump the Genius, but they can't do it.

 

Another could have shown someone producing something really complex, but they can't figure out how to do one thing.   They get help from the Genius.     The tag line could have been something like, "When your genius needs our Genius, we're here for you".    

 

I hope these ads disappear quickly.    I don't know if these ads are the result of Jobs being gone or not, but I don't remember any Apple ads being as lame as these.   When I first saw the headline, I thought Apple developed a new generation of the equivalent of the "Think Different" ads, featuring a new set of real geniuses - really smart and influential people who use Macs.     IMO, that would have been better.   

post #290 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

@ Dick Applebaum > So back to that Marty Scorcese iPad spot, can't he afford a car and driver with all his cabbage at this stage in his life? And after his rendezvous suppose he can't find a taxi in rush hour and gets mugged by a wino who steals his iPhone? Maybe Marty could make it back to his Soho film complex and use "Find My iPhone" on his MB Air to locate the mugger and recover his precious iPhone... At least Steve had a sense of humor which is more than can be said about you!

OK?

I don't particularly care for Scorcesse as an actor or director -- but this is the first time I've commented on him... So, I have no idea what you are talking about... Do you?
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/29/12 at 10:09pm
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post #291 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I'm going to have to vote down as well.    Apple Geniuses should not be necessary to figure out how to perform basic functions of Apple's software, which is supposed to be easy to use.     Unless the idea of the ad was to make "older" people, and by older, I mean people 35-45, feel like they should need help from a Genius.

IMO, the ad should have shown that using Apple software is so easy, the Geniuses aren't needed.   You could have had a situation where the person thinks they need a Genius, but then they use the app on their own and they don't let the Genius get a word in.    Then they thank the Genius for being so helpful.    

Another ad could have shown a Genius in the store with someone trying to stump the Genius, but they can't do it.

Another could have shown someone producing something really complex, but they can't figure out how to do one thing.   They get help from the Genius.     The tag line could have been something like, "When your genius needs our Genius, we're here for you".    

I hope these ads disappear quickly.    I don't know if these ads are the result of Jobs being gone or not, but I don't remember any Apple ads being as lame as these.   When I first saw the headline, I thought Apple developed a new generation of the equivalent of the "Think Different" ads, featuring a new set of real geniuses - really smart and influential people who use Macs.     IMO, that would have been better.   

That's wrong message to tell because it's inaccurate. I bet in the last month every single one of us have asked how to do something with their computer, even if was just a google search. That is still asking for assistance. To have a message that Mac OS and all the SW for Macs are so easy that you don't need any assistance from being a non-PC user in general to being just a non-Mac user is just false and if that horrible message was actually conveyed what would happen when they open up their Mac for the first time and try to do complex things with them? They'd get no where and they'd be frustrated. But if you inform them that they not shouldn't have an innate knowledge of how everything on their Mac works and show them that Mac users have a life line to support that other vendors and retailers can't offer then you can help get people to switch to a Mac and be satisfied with that change.

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post #292 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's wrong message to tell because it's inaccurate. I bet in the last month every single one of us have asked how to do something with their computer, even if was just a google search. That is still asking for assistance. To have a message that Mac OS and all the SW for Macs are so easy that you don't need any assistance from being a non-PC user in general to being just a non-Mac user is just false and if that horrible message was actually conveyed what would happen when they open up their Mac for the first time and try to do complex things with them? They'd get no where and they'd be frustrated. But if you inform them that they not shouldn't have an innate knowledge of how everything on their Mac works and show them that Mac users have a life line to support that other vendors and retailers can't offer then you can help get people to switch to a Mac and be satisfied with that change.

Yes! It is so long since most of us, here, have been computer noobs... Try and remember back when everything was new and strange... So much to learn, where to start?

Then ask yourself: where do you go to get help, answers... Or even the chance to ask questions...

These ads provide the comfort that, for Mac users, help is available when you need it?
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post #293 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I'm going to have to vote down as well.    Apple Geniuses should not be necessary to figure out how to perform basic functions of Apple's software, which is supposed to be easy to use.     Unless the idea of the ad was to make "older" people, and by older, I mean people 35-45, feel like they should need help from a Genius.

 

IMO, the ad should have shown that using Apple software is so easy, the Geniuses aren't needed.   You could have had a situation where the person thinks they need a Genius, but then they use the app on their own and they don't let the Genius get a word in.    Then they thank the Genius for being so helpful.    

 

Another ad could have shown a Genius in the store with someone trying to stump the Genius, but they can't do it.

 

Another could have shown someone producing something really complex, but they can't figure out how to do one thing.   They get help from the Genius.     The tag line could have been something like, "When your genius needs our Genius, we're here for you".    

 

I hope these ads disappear quickly.    I don't know if these ads are the result of Jobs being gone or not, but I don't remember any Apple ads being as lame as these.   When I first saw the headline, I thought Apple developed a new generation of the equivalent of the "Think Different" ads, featuring a new set of real geniuses - really smart and influential people who use Macs.     IMO, that would have been better.   

 

Apple are showing off what their products can do, out of the box, using a genius to demonstrate how easy it is to do things that a lot of people never even thought of.

 

Things like the Cards App for instance, people in a Windows/Android world wouldn't even know it existed, being told only about the specs such as screen size, processor speed etc and being hammered with that sort of stuff day in, day out on tech sites all over the Internet where they may go looking for guidance..

 

It continues Apple's selling based on benefits rather than features.

 

The Samsung commercial has been mentioned, with their latest ad they are moving down the same road.

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post #294 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

Those are perfectly good ads .... for most companies. For Apple, they are terrible. Apple ads have always been about associating a product with the Apple brand - except the Think Different campaign, which established the brand identity. People who start excusing Apple for not being great are just allowing mediocrity to seep back into its culture. Schiller should be rejecting such things. He may not know what the perfect ad is, but he should know when he sees one that isn't.

+1

The ads are functional. They remind me of the Honda ads with the helpful sales guy wearing the blue Honda shirt trying to help prospective customers.

I usually expect most companies and businesses to produce "functional" products, ads, etc. It's a rarity when a company can produce anything that is not only functional, but beautiful in an aesthetic or artistic sense. Apple's products still seem to have both beauty and function, but these new ads seem merely functional now.

It's difficult to separate the feeling of function without artistic beauty in these ads from the Apple brand. Because the brand already encompassed beauty, I think the brand takes a hit with these ads.

Is the hit to the brand worth it to reach out to more customers who might respond more favorably to these concrete vs abstract ads?

I tend to think not, as desirability in excess of what a commodity item offers is more dependent on aesthetics, form, and beauty. These attributes of the Apple brand should be protected.
post #295 of 318

FAILED! It's not cool nor funny nor does it connect with someone that has used a Mac for 15 years.  I don't see how this can appeal to new MAC users or convert any PC users. With Jobs gone, they can't even come up with a classic or witty ad?

post #296 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Help me with your credibility. What are your marketing credentials?
12 years with a major international consumer brand, and brand was king over product. Here's the test: tell me if these commercials connect to you on any emotional level. They are purely functional "you can do this with product X" ads (with an annoying - which I guess is an emotion but not a good one - addition of "and here is a service that can help you"). The ads are low rent. Not bad, just bad for Apple.
post #297 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

12 years with a major international consumer brand, and brand was king over product. Here's the test: tell me if these commercials connect to you on any emotional level. They are purely functional "you can do this with product X" ads (with an annoying - which I guess is an emotion but not a good one - addition of "and here is a service that can help you"). The ads are low rent. Not bad, just bad for Apple.

 

Bad meaning good in this case.

 

You can't judge or equate the success of these ads by your own "expert" experience. You have worked 12 years at one brand, and you don't have the experience of 12 years at the company who you think you know what the hell is going on, where they are heading, and what future they want to build from today.

 

You don't work for Apple.  People who call themselves experts always never get it right. Especially the ones that envy of having a job at the company they only wish they worked at and try to step on the same people (Phil Schiller) that work in the same position at a job which you would never ever get.

 

There are a majority of people that have switched to Apple, or that are planning to switch but still not sure. These are the people that can "emotionally" be connected with these new ads.

 

Ever since I have been a Mac user,  I have had at least one person every week asking me about switching from PC and how they are unsure whether they can use a Mac given their whole digital life has only been on a PC. Especially after the iPhone and iPad has been released, its been a lot more closer to "should I make the jump?" Also from many friends who have switched and starting out. Its usually these people that ask Mac users for help. Now they have retail store staff to assist. I have started to make screencasts for my parents who live on the other side of the globe on how to solve specific Mac issues, and they visit the Apple Store to ask geniuses there every weekend.

 

These ads are all aimed at the older generation.

Apple realizes the younger generation have switched and its time to target the rest.

post #298 of 318

Doesn't the image of hapless users begging for help from a "Genius" to do rather simple things run precisely counter to the "it just works" idea?  i found the ads just a touch insulting to potential new users.

post #299 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by moustache View Post

 

Bad meaning good in this case.

 

You can't judge or equate the success of these ads by your own "expert" experience. You have worked 12 years at one brand, and you don't have the experience of 12 years at the company who you think you know what the hell is going on, where they are heading, and what future they want to build from today.

 

You don't work for Apple.  People who call themselves experts always never get it right. Especially the ones that envy of having a job at the company they only wish they worked at and try to step on the same people (Phil Schiller) that work in the same position at a job which you would never ever get.

 

There are a majority of people that have switched to Apple, or that are planning to switch but still not sure. These are the people that can "emotionally" be connected with these new ads.

 

Ever since I have been a Mac user,  I have had at least one person every week asking me about switching from PC and how they are unsure whether they can use a Mac given their whole digital life has only been on a PC. Especially after the iPhone and iPad has been released, its been a lot more closer to "should I make the jump?" Also from many friends who have switched and starting out. Its usually these people that ask Mac users for help. Now they have retail store staff to assist. I have started to make screencasts for my parents who live on the other side of the globe on how to solve specific Mac issues, and they visit the Apple Store to ask geniuses there every weekend.

 

These ads are all aimed at the older generation.

Apple realizes the younger generation have switched and its time to target the rest.

 

Good post!  

 

I would add that there are members of every generation who are just not technology driven -- they are aware of technology, but they don't arrange their lives around it.  Doctors, Lawyers, Executives, Construction Workers, Athletes, Welders...

 

These people often see the need for a computer to address specific tasks to simplify their lives -- but have no interest in becoming computerists (experts, techies).  This has less to do with age, IQ, education, ability than how these people view the world around them.

 

 

Dr. "G", was writing a scientific book and was well respected in his field.  He bought his computer from us and went through all our training.

 

Dr. "G" lived in Santa Cruz, and every few months he would make the difficult trip over the mountains to our Sunnyvale Store.  He would pull out a stack of 3x5 index cards -- each card had a question or described a problem he was having.  The stack was usually 1/2-1 inch thick.  So, Dr. "G" would start with the top card, ask his question, note the answer, then place the card on the bottom of the deck... repeat.  Often he would cycle through the stack several times to be sure that all the issues were resolved.

 

Dr. "G" was brilliant!  Dr. "G" was a customer of mine!  Dr. "G" never understood computers!   Dr. "G" was able to get the job done using a computer!

 

 

My friend Sheena Melwani is a singer, composer songwriter.  Sheena is very active on Twitter and used to have weekly LiveCasts.  On one particular LiveCast, Sheena was chiding her father:

 

Sheena: "Why don't you follow me on Twitter?".

 

Dad: "Because, I am not that interested in what you are doing all the time!"

 

 

Or, My Dad, when I was showing him how to do something on his Apple ][:

 

"I don't want to know how it works -- I just want it to work [enter address labels]"

 

My Dad had a very inquisitive mind, was a self-taught automotive/electronics engineer with several patents and inventions under his belt.  He could design and build a Stereo & Speakers  that made the bay window pulsate and a candy dish jump off the coffee table [true story] -- but Dad had absolutely no Interest in how computers worked -- he just wanted to enter and print address labels.

 

 

Or my Late wife Lucy.  Lucy had no interest in technology... Lucy was interested in people.  We were surrounded by computers and computer geeks, but the most Lucy ever did with computers was a little word-process (writing letters) or checking/entering orders with our suppliers (1980s, before the web) using specialized systems.

 

Here's the best part... Lucy, the non-techie people person managed the best damn computer stores in Silicon valley.  

 

 

Anther example are the many corporate executives that brought their iPhones and iPads [and a few Macs] into the office and told IT: "Make this work on our network."  These executives have bigger fish to fry than learning the intricacies of every tool they use -- they are interested in results -- I want to use an iPhone (iPad, Mac) -- make it work for me.

 

 

My point is that the world is filled with people who are not (and never will be) "computerists" -- but they do need computers as part of their lives... And they need them to work as advertised,  be repaired as needed (inexpensively and quickly) and, periodically,  learn how to make the computer do something new [to them].   These people may not have IT or "Geek" friends out there to help them.

 

What I'm describing is service after sale!  Most people who own, or are considering buying a computer tool are interested in making it do what they want [my Dad's Address labels] -- not how it does it.

 

Some large number of the 90% plus of non-Mac computer users out there have little, or no, way to make their computers do what they want.

 

 

These Genius ads are addressed to these people (say, 70% of the 90% ~=  60%) and those who have no computer at all.

 

 

This is a capability/service that Apple has -- and the competition has nothing...nothing!  This is a tremendous opportunity for Apple -- the consumerization of consumer PCs.

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post #300 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana_Dik View Post

Doesn't the image of hapless users begging for help from a "Genius" to do rather simple things run precisely counter to the "it just works" idea?  i found the ads just a touch insulting to potential new users.

 

Are you a potential new user?  Have you ever tried to sell a computer to a potential new user?  Especially to a potential new user who is afraid or confused by technology?

 

These ads present Geniuses showing ordinary {non-techie) people how to get things done... It may be beneath your abilities or interests, but how is that insulting to the target of these ads?


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/30/12 at 11:05am
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post #301 of 318
Thanks.

I agree with what you said. Sorry to hear about your wife.

I have been helping out most of my friends and family in the last 20 Mac years of the same people you are talking about in your post. And seeing these ads, I see my Dad going through the same thing, especially thinking of buying other brands because it should be as good as an Apple product... Until I tell him that cheap doesn't equate to being a better product, or many of these gadgets try and emulate an apple product... (ad with the guy who thinks he bought a close enough non-Mac Mac!! My Dad still bought a Dell laptop because it was cheap!!! Now he just uses his iPad.

But it's a lot easier now since these people had a chance to use the iPhone or iPad or more importantly heard others of their kind rave about them. Then these people might stumble into an Apple store and get to play with one themselves. And Dad likes to ask direct questions to see whether this new gadget can do what his laptop can by asking the staff at the Apple Store.
Edited by moustache - 7/30/12 at 11:07am
post #302 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Are you a potential new user?  Have you ever tried to sell a computer to a potential new user?  Especially to a potential new user who is afraid or confused by technology?

These ads present Geniuses showing ordinary {non-techie) people how to get things done... It may beneath your abilities or interests, but how is that insulting to the target of these ads?

Bingo. The Verge site had an article saying the ads were embarrassing. I am surprised so many Apple fans here only think of whats in front of their noses.

I just hope these ads will make more Mac sales and then people here will be more understanding. I bet the brief Apple directed to ad agencies was exactly for those other older than teens and potential Apple switchers (the masses who watch Olympics opening haha)
post #303 of 318
Originally Posted by Techboy View Post
It's not cool nor funny nor does it connect with someone that has used a Mac for 15 years.

 

It's not supposed to connect with you.

post #304 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It's not supposed to connect with you.

 

This is an amazing thread...

 

I am surprised at the number of posters who are totally self-centered and have a complete lack of empathy....

 

"Walk a mile in my [someone else's] shoes".

 

I have found that a common ability shared by the most effective people I know -- is the ability to look at things from the viewpoint of others (viewpoints often diametrically opposed to their own).

 

 

...And one of the most effective people I've ever met was the late Steve Jobs... he had the ability in spades!  He would consider things from others' viewpoints and determine what they wanted/needed before they even knew they needed it.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/30/12 at 11:31am
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post #305 of 318

I liked the ads. I like that Apple is branding the Genius as a concept. I loved that the third ad showed the Genius sleeping in his Apple uniform, like a superhero or something.

 

I have a friend who's never owned a Mac, but the other day she commented how nice it would be to get free support at any Apple Store. I have other friends and relatives who might be interested in using iPhoto and iMovie but wouldn't explore them on their own. I don't think these people would feel condescended to by these ads. I expect the only effect they'll have is to give people a lighthearted reminder that Apple has good support options.

post #306 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by moustache View Post

Bad meaning good in this case.

You can't judge or equate the success of these ads by your own "expert" experience. You have worked 12 years at one brand, and you don't have the experience of 12 years at the company who you think you know what the hell is going on, where they are heading, and what future they want to build from today.

You don't work for Apple.  People who call themselves experts always never get it right. Especially the ones that envy of having a job at the company they only wish they worked at and try to step on the same people (Phil Schiller) that work in the same position at a job which you would never ever get.

There are a majority of people that have switched to Apple, or that are planning to switch but still not sure. These are the people that can "emotionally" be connected with these new ads.

Ever since I have been a Mac user,  I have had at least one person every week asking me about switching from PC and how they are unsure whether they can use a Mac given their whole digital life has only been on a PC. Especially after the iPhone and iPad has been released, its been a lot more closer to "should I make the jump?" Also from many friends who have switched and starting out. Its usually these people that ask Mac users for help. Now they have retail store staff to assist. I have started to make screencasts for my parents who live on the other side of the globe on how to solve specific Mac issues, and they visit the Apple Store to ask geniuses there every weekend.

These ads are all aimed at the older generation.
Apple realizes the younger generation have switched and its time to target the rest.
That's fine. You are impressed by functional ads. I do not have any desire to work for Apple, and your suggestion otherwise is just specious and silly. These ads are terrible brand marketing ads, and Apple has long been about brand marketing. It seemed to be doing well for them. Brand marketing is a specific kind of marketing, and it translates well across brands. The problem is people tend to think in terms of functional ads "product X will do Y for you" because it's easier to understand, but it's not better. Convincing people to love you for who you are, and not just what you can do for them, is innately better for a company's long term sustainability. And it's been the core of Apple's identity since 1997.

If I'm not articulating the point well enough, try this [=http://kensegall.com/2012/07/new-mac-ads-landing-with-a-serious-thud/]one[/]
Edited by focher - 7/30/12 at 6:18pm
post #307 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

That's fine. You are impressed by functional ads. I do not have any desire to work for Apple, and your suggestion otherwise is just specious and silly. These ads are terrible brand marketing ads, and Apple has long been about brand marketing. It seemed to be doing well for them. Brand marketing is a specific kind of marketing, and it translates well across brands. The problem is people tend to think in terms of functional ads "product X will do Y for you" because it's easier to understand, but it's not better. Convincing people to love you for who you are, and not just what you can do for them, is innately better for a company's long term sustainability. And it's been the core of Apple's identity since 1997.
If I'm not articulating the point well enough, try this [=http://kensegall.com/2012/07/new-mac-ads-landing-with-a-serious-thud/]one[/]

 

I don't pretend to understand advertising theory and all its intricacies... but I do understand what works,  These ads work for their target audience.  Every ad doesn't need to be promoteing the "brand"... some even consider that too elitist -- " they are always tellin' us how great they are -- what do they care about what I need?".  

 

There is nothing wrong with targeting ads to address specific products, services, issues or audiences.  These need not diminish the "brand" ads -- rather they can bring new customers to the fold who will now appreciate the "brand" because it addressed their needs.

 

If you reallly want to be pedantic about it... you could say that Apple should never have run the iPod ads or "I'm a Mac" ads... because they diminished the Apple "brand" of supplying serious computer solutions.

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post #308 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by focher View Post

That's fine. You are impressed by functional ads. I do not have any desire to work for Apple, and your suggestion otherwise is just specious and silly. These ads are terrible brand marketing ads, and Apple has long been about brand marketing. It seemed to be doing well for them. Brand marketing is a specific kind of marketing, and it translates well across brands. The problem is people tend to think in terms of functional ads "product X will do Y for you" because it's easier to understand, but it's not better. Convincing people to love you for who you are, and not just what you can do for them, is innately better for a company's long term sustainability. And it's been the core of Apple's identity since 1997.
If I'm not articulating the point well enough, try this [=http://kensegall.com/2012/07/new-mac-ads-landing-with-a-serious-thud/]one[/]


I predict we will see more polished Genius ads as it further develops.

I like the concept, maybe the way its told can be better, to also please the already converted Mac users.

At any rate, the huge negative responses of an ad is so unique in today's marketing world. It only says that Apple users care for Apple which I think is the best indication of a successful brand.

post #309 of 318

I never met Steve Jobs, but I know the marketing and advertising that came out during his tenure were never anywhere near this bad...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I don't pretend to understand advertising theory and all its intricacies... but I do understand what works,  These ads work for their target audience.  Every ad doesn't need to be promoteing the "brand"... some even consider that too elitist -- " they are always tellin' us how great they are -- what do they care about what I need?".  

 

There is nothing wrong with targeting ads to address specific products, services, issues or audiences.  These need not diminish the "brand" ads -- rather they can bring new customers to the fold who will now appreciate the "brand" because it addressed their needs.

 

If you reallly want to be pedantic about it... you could say that Apple should never have run the iPod ads or "I'm a Mac" ads... because they diminished the Apple "brand" of supplying serious computer solutions.

 

... but this guy did know Steve Jobs and worked with him for years as creative director at TBWA\Chiat\Day, and this was his impression of the ads:

 

Quote:
These ads are causing a widespread gagging response, and deservedly so. I honestly can’t remember a single Apple campaign that’s been received so poorly.

Former Apple Ad Man Slams 'Genius' TV Spots as "Landing With A Thud" (macrumors.com)

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #310 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

I never met Steve Jobs, but I know the marketing and advertising that came out during his tenure were never anywhere near this bad...

 

 

... but this guy did know Steve Jobs and worked with him for years as creative director at TBWA\Chiat\Day, and this was his impression of the ads:

 

Former Apple Ad Man Slams 'Genius' TV Spots as "Landing With A Thud" (macrumors.com)

 

Do you know how close Apple came to not running the 1984 ad?

 

And, of course, there's this turd:

 

Even Steve Jobs and TBWA\Chiat\Day got it wrong sometimes – Apple’s ‘Lemmings’ ad from 1985

 

 

 
 
Effective ads, like beauty -- are in the eye of the beholder -- not the creator... who has a vested interest...
 
...Where's that Mac Office and "Brand" promotion you guys go on and on and on about?
 
 
And you guys are saying the Genius ads are bad... and insulting  to potential customers?
 
 
"Good" I know nothing about... but "Bad" I understand!
 
 
The "Lemmings" ad was one of the worst ads ever... by any company, by any agency, for any "brand"!   Bad... just bad!
 
"...a chagrined Apple considered running a public apology for it."

Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/30/12 at 9:36pm
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post #311 of 318
Thank you for all the memories and views shared, much appreciated!

From the bible, nee, bio:
Quote:
Jobs was not happy with the original ads for the iPad. As usual, he threw himself into the marketing, working with James Vincent and Duncan Milner at the ad agency (now called TBWA/Media Arts Lab), with Lee Clow advising from a semiretired perch. The commercial they first produced was a gentle scene of a guy in faded jeans and sweatshirt reclining in a chair, looking at email, a photo album, the New York Times, books, and video on an iPad propped on his lap. There were no words, just the background beat of “There Goes My Love” by the Blue Van. “After he approved it, Steve decided he hated it,” Vincent recalled. “He thought it looked like a Pottery Barn commercial.” Jobs later told me:
It had been easy to explain what the iPod was—a thousand songs in your pocket—which allowed us to move quickly to the iconic silhouette ads. But it was hard to explain what an iPad was. We didn’t want to show it as a computer, and yet we didn’t want to make it so soft that it looked like a cute TV. The first set of ads showed we didn’t know what we were doing. They had a cashmere and Hush Puppies feel to them.

James Vincent had not taken a break in months. So when the iPad finally went on sale and the ads started airing, he drove with his family to the Coachella Music Festival in Palm Springs, which featured some of his favorite bands, including Muse, Faith No More, and Devo. Soon after he arrived, Jobs called. “Your commercials suck,” he said. “The iPad is revolutionizing the world, and we need something big. You’ve given me small shit.”
“Well, what do you want?” Vincent shot back. “You’ve not been able to tell me what you want.”
“I don’t know,” Jobs said. “You have to bring me something new. Nothing you’ve shown me is even close.”
Vincent argued back and suddenly Jobs went ballistic. “He just started screaming at me,” Vincent recalled. Vincent could be volatile himself, and the volleys escalated.
When Vincent shouted, “You’ve got to tell me what you want,” Jobs shot back, “You’ve got to show me some stuff, and I’ll know it when I see it.”
“Oh, great, let me write that on my brief for my creative people: I’ll know it when I see it.”
Vincent got so frustrated that he slammed his fist into the wall of the house he was renting and put a large dent in it. When he finally went outside to his family, sitting by the pool, they looked at him nervously. “Are you okay?” his wife finally asked.
It took Vincent and his team two weeks to come up with an array of new options, and he asked to present them at Jobs’s house rather than the office, hoping that it would be a more relaxed environment. Laying storyboards on the coffee table, he and Milner offered twelve approaches. One was inspirational and stirring. Another tried humor, with Michael Cera, the comic actor, wandering through a fake house making funny comments about the way people could use iPads. Others featured the iPad with celebrities, or set starkly on a white background, or starring in a little sitcom, or in a straightforward product demonstration.
After mulling over the options, Jobs realized what he wanted. Not humor, nor a celebrity, nor a demo. “It’s got to make a statement,” he said. “It needs to be a manifesto. This is big.” He had announced that the iPad would change the world, and he wanted a campaign that reinforced that declaration. Other companies would come out with copycat tablets in a year or so, he said, and he wanted people to remember that the iPad was the real thing. “We need ads that stand up and declare what we have done.”
He abruptly got out of his chair, looking a bit weak but smiling. “I’ve got to go have a massage now,” he said. “Get to work.”
So Vincent and Milner, along with the copywriter Eric Grunbaum, began crafting what they dubbed “The Manifesto.” It would be fast-paced, with vibrant pictures and a thumping beat, and it would proclaim that the iPad was revolutionary. The music they chose was Karen O’s pounding refrain from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs’” Gold Lion.” As the iPad was shown doing magical things, a strong voice declared, “iPad is thin. iPad is beautiful. . . . It’s crazy powerful. It’s magical. . . . It’s video, photos. More books than you could read in a lifetime. It’s already a revolution, and it’s only just begun.”
Once the Manifesto ads had run their course, the team again tried something softer, shot as day-in-the-life documentaries by the young filmmaker Jessica Sanders. Jobs liked them—for a little while. Then he turned against them for the same reason he had reacted against the original Pottery Barn–style ads. “Dammit,” he shouted, “they look like a Visa commercial, typical ad agency stuff.”
He had been asking for ads that were different and new, but eventually he realized he did not want to stray from what he considered the Apple voice. For him, that voice had a distinctive set of qualities: simple, declarative, clean. “We went down that lifestyle path, and it seemed to be growing on Steve, and suddenly he said, ‘I hate that stuff, it’s not Apple,’” recalled Lee Clow. “He told us to get back to the Apple voice. It’s a very simple, honest voice.” And so they went back to a clean white background, with just a close-up showing off all the things that “iPad is . . .” and could do.
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post #312 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Thank you for all the memories and views shared, much appreciated!
From the bible, nee, bio:

 

Good read, thanks for posting that!   I have the eBook, but haven't read it.

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post #313 of 318

Have you forgotten that 1985 was the year The Suits on Apple's Board of Directors ran Steve Jobs out on a rail?  LOL!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Do you know how close Apple came to not running the 1984 ad?

 

And, of course, there's this turd:

 

Even Steve Jobs and TBWA\Chiat\Day got it wrong sometimes – Apple’s ‘Lemmings’ ad from 1985

 

 

 
...
 
The "Lemmings" ad was one of the worst ads ever... by any company, by any agency, for any "brand"!   Bad... just bad!
 
"...a chagrined Apple considered running a public apology for it."

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #314 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Have you forgotten that 1985 was the year The Suits on Apple's Board of Directors ran Steve Jobs out on a rail?  LOL!

 

 

Maybe this ad, in excruciating bad taste, was part of the reason...

 

In the 1984 ad Apple was attacking Big Brother...

 

In the "Lemmings" ad Apple was ridiculing businessmen who used PCs... the very people they were trying to attract and convince to buy Macs and "Mac Office".

 

 

At this point in his life, I think that Steve had little tolerance or understanding of "business" -- and was totally focused on making cool products and "total Apple solutions".  We saw a few brilliant products like the LaserWriter... but most business offerings like Apple Hard Disks, and AppleTalk networking were inferior to offerings from other companies.  

 

I think that Steve just turned his back and ignored the general business segment of the market.

 

 

I remember having a long discussion with Guy Kawasaki, around this time, about what Apple should be doing to attract and support business customers.  I suspect the discussion was passed on, but nothing ever came of it.

 

Another example... we were selling Corvus OmniNet twisted pair (telephone wire) 1 Mb networks all over the US (and a few in Europe)) -- mainly tied to Apple computers (first Apple ][, then Macs).  You could put up to 63 Macs on a network with no special wiring... just a $99 adapter card that you plugged into the back of each Mac.  Mark Hahn, a brilliant engineer and co-founder of Corvus told me that he had tried, without success, to get Steve interested in licensing the OmniNet chip technology... He said it would have cost Apple less than $10 per Mac (Macs sold for about $2,500 - $3,000).  This could have been a major breakthrough for Mac in business -- as many Macs (and Apple ][ & Apple ///, IBM PC, S100 Systems) could share the same HDD and SPOOLed printers.   We sold thousands of Apple Computers to businesses along with Corvus networks... quite a few of these were Fortune 500 companies...  We even sold/installed 7 Corvus OmniNet networks to various departments in Apple HQ... (Apple didn't buy the Computers from US, though... Sigh).


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 7/31/12 at 3:51pm
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post #315 of 318

Careful, you're reaching so far you might pull a muscle if you aren't careful.  LOL!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Maybe this ad, in excruciating bad taste, was part of the reason...

 

In the 1984 ad Apple was attacking Big Brother...

 

In the "Lemmings" ad Apple was ridiculing businessmen who used PCs... the very people they were trying to attract and convince to buy Macs and "Mac Office".

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #316 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Careful, you're reaching so far you might pull a muscle if you aren't careful.  LOL!

 

 

You had to be there to understand! In 1985:

  • there was no Internet or web
  • Apple had no online stores
  • Apple had no bricks and mortar retail stores
  • virtually all Apple computers, and other brands like IBM, were sold through independent retailers
  • because if its "history" Apple computers were considered by, business, to be upstart hippie toys
  • because if its "history" IBM computers were considered by, business, to be serious business computers
 

Some independent retailers understood the "business" needs and mindset and were quite successful marketing Apple computers to "business" -- often in spite of Apple.

 

Our stores had 3 partners -- 2 (including myself) had been marketing (sales and support) IBM mainframes to business since 1964... 12 years before Apple was founded.

 

When we entered the market in 1978, there were three identified targets to sell into:

  • hobbyist
  • home/personal
  • business

 

There was no money in the hobbyist market -- they built  their own.

 

The home/personal market was beginning to become active with self-contained units like the Apple ][.

 

There was no business market, yet (no SpreadSheets, Word Processors, etc.) but many saw the business market as a great potential.

 

By design, we had structured our company to sell to the home/personal and business markets.

 

We carefully cultivated the business market and by 1985 we were quite successful selling computers (mostly Apple, but some IBM) to businesses.

 

 

Apple's 1985 Lemmings ad was a slap in the face to our business customers and to us.

 

 

By comparison, today's Genius ads are showcasing after sale service and support.  While targeted at the home/personal user,  the concept is well understood and appreciated by the business user.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/1/12 at 2:46am
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post #317 of 318

You missed one.

 

In 1985:

  • The suits had taken over control of Apple, to its deteriment.

 

Disclosure, in those days I had a hotrodded IBM XT that I only upgraded to a 386 when Windows 3.0/Excel 3.0 came out.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Careful, you're reaching so far you might pull a muscle if you aren't careful.  LOL!

 

 

You had to be there to understand! In 1985:

  • there was no Internet or web
  • Apple had no online stores
  • Apple had no bricks and mortar retail stores
  • virtually all Apple computers, and other brands like IBM, were sold through independent retailers
  • because if its "history" Apple computers were considered by, business, to be upstart hippie toys
  • because if its "history" IBM computers were considered by, business, to be serious business computers
 
Apple's 1985 Lemmings ad was a slap in the face to our business customers and to us.

 


Edited by John.B - 8/1/12 at 9:16am

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #318 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Thank you for all the memories and views shared, much appreciated!

From the bible, nee, bio:

Good read, thanks for posting that!   I have the eBook, but haven't read it.

I would like to 'plug' that book here. I understand that many people procrastinate to read it, but it really is worth it. I held off till I went on holiday and 'reserved' some time for it to read, and was very happy that I did. The book, for me, was so insightful that I even bought the ebook after getting the hard copy as a Christmas present so I could read it on my way to the ski piste and continue the hardcopy after getting back to the village.

*** I even bought Mona Simpsons' A Regular Guy but haven't finished it. Which is stupid because there are a lot of references thAt would interest me: Steve Jobs.
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