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Downloads of Apple's OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion top 3 million in 4 days

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
Apple's newly updated Mac operating system, OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, has been downloaded more than 3 million times in its first four days, the company announced on Monday.

"Just a year after the incredibly successful introduction of Lion, customers have downloaded Mountain Lion over three million times in just four days, making it our most successful release ever," said Philip Schiller, Apple?s senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing.

Mountain Lion launched on the Mac App Store last Wednesday as a $19.99 upgrade from Lion or Snow Leopard. It includes iCloud integration, a new messaging application, Notification Center, system-wide sharing, Facebook integration, Dictation, AirPlay Mirroring and Game Center.

With more than 3 million copies downloaded in the first four days, Mountain Lion marks the most successful OS X launch in Apple's history. Last year, sales of OS X 10.7 Lion topped 1 million in its first day of availability, while total sales had exceeded 6 million by last October.

Customers who bought a new Mac after June 11 are eligible to upgrade to Mountain Lion at no cost.

Mountain Lion


The first public sign of Mountain Lion's success came last Friday, when Chitika Insights revealed that after just 48 hours of availability, Mountain Lion accounted for 3.2 percent of all Mac Web traffic. In just two days, the total usage of Mountain Lion tracked on the Web neared that of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger.

For an extensive look at the features and functionality found in Mountain Lion, see AppleInsider's in-depth Inside Mountain Lion series.
post #2 of 59

I tried to buy it a few days after launch and just got a 404 error... While I repeatedly tried to get it to work, I noticed all the negative reviews.

 

I think I'll wait until 10.8.1 now.

 
post #3 of 59
It appears to be quicker- but to be honest, outside of the notifications of emails flashing- I don't even notice a difference in the OS. Don't really use dictation or AirPlay- oh well.

Once iOS 6 comes out and my email and phone number marry each other, messages will be nice. As it is now, it's useless.

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #4 of 59

In other news, Microsoft is looking for 3 million users willing to upgrade to Windows 8....  /s
 


Edited by icoco3 - 7/30/12 at 6:27am
post #5 of 59

I like the new screensavers :p .  Still waiting on checkpoint to release a secureclient update so I can upgrade my imac too.

post #6 of 59
Works fine for me (now that I know how to avoid four times download for my 4 Macs at home ...). The only surprise came from OpenOffice .odt opened by Textedit and .doc by Pages. It took me three hours to discover the effect of System Preferences ---> Security Preferences, and how to bypass the general policy for this particular application (incidentally, I moved from OpenOffice to LibreOffice, much better).
post #7 of 59

I've been using ML as my main OS since DP1. It works nicely on an Early 2008 MBP 2.4Ghz, 6GB RAM. I've had this machine since October 2008 and have been able to keep it current without any issues, and have been able to enjoy most of the features of each new OS (save for maybe AirDrop and now AirPlay.)

 

It's only $20 and you're getting a better OS and you'll be completely current. No reason not to upgrade. 

post #8 of 59

Considering the small number of computers that will accept the Mountain Lion upgrade, I guess that number is relatively good.  I'm sure Microsoft will claim 3 million Windows 8 upgrades within the first hour.

post #9 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I'm sure Microsoft will claim 3 million Windows 8 upgrades within the first hour.

 

I should hope so. It's pretty easy when Windows runs on every box in the market. Right down to the $400-$500 junkers. 

 

The entry fee to the Apple ecosystem via a Mac is no less than $1000 (unless you count the Mini.)

post #10 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

I tried to buy it a few days after launch and just got a 404 error... While I repeatedly tried to get it to work, I noticed all the negative reviews.

I think I'll wait until 10.8.1 now.
 

What negative reviews? It is a seamless upgrade to an awesome version.
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post #11 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


What negative reviews? It is a seamless upgrade to an awesome version.

 

Look at the Apple support forums, there are lots of scary looking reports. I took the plunge and have had zero problems, so I'm relieved. Mountain Lion is a decent incremental upgrade, with no obvious breakage so far.

post #12 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Works fine for me (now that I know how to avoid four times download for my 4 Macs at home ...). The only surprise came from OpenOffice .odt opened by Textedit and .doc by Pages. It took me three hours to discover the effect of System Preferences ---> Security Preferences, and how to bypass the general policy for this particular application (incidentally, I moved from OpenOffice to LibreOffice, much better).

I have every version of all these various offerings including Neo Office because I have found various situations where only one suite would achieve something when the others couldn't. Case in point recently I had to convert a really out dated file format an online real estate system exported and I tried all three and only one worked.

Given the price point (Neo was $10 so I took a loan). The only version I refuse to install these days is from that old company that used to be around in the last century, what's it called? Oh yes, Microsoft. /wink
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #13 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Considering the small number of computers that will accept the Mountain Lion upgrade, I guess that number is relatively good.  I'm sure Microsoft will claim 3 million Windows 8 upgrades within the first hour.

I am waiting to see how long it will be before Microsoft have to offer a downgrade option for free from machines purchased with 8 pre installed to those screaming it is terrible and want 7 instead.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #14 of 59
3 million in 4 days? That's LESS than last years 10.7 selling 1M in the first day¡

Don't think the sales numbers are what counts, to me it's the quality of the product. And if it's not massively popular, not some commercial success, somehow it feels more special. Kind of being part of an elite group, if you will.
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post #15 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

Look at the Apple support forums, there are lots of scary looking reports. I took the plunge and have had zero problems, so I'm relieved. Mountain Lion is a decent incremental upgrade, with no obvious breakage so far.

The forums I read obviously filter out anti-Apple trolls better. / smile
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #16 of 59
Too many horror stories - I'll pass.
The last upgrade still has me ticked.
post #17 of 59

There were "scary reports" for every OS upgrade since 10.0.

 

Yet, just looking at Mountain Lion, the reviews are very positive, and it's getting excellent ratings in the App Store. 

 

At some point you'll need to back up your data and take the plunge. 

 

For example, I've got an Early 2008 MBP, 2.4Ghz, 6GB RAM. I've done a clean install of every OS upgrade since purchasing this machine in October 2008. Never had a problem. *EVER*. Not one. All of it was painless, each and every time. Which you'll find is the experience of the vast majority of users. Hence, the consumer satisfaction ratings we see for Macs, year after year. 

post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


What negative reviews? It is a seamless upgrade to an awesome version.

 

On the Appstore. Lots of people are having problems. 
 
I can't risk it killing my iMac, like Lion did, as this is my work machine (Last time I had to do a full restore from Time Machine). 
 
I'd test it out on my home 2008 MacBook, but it's not supported, which seems odd as Mountain Lion is such a minor update. 
 
post #19 of 59
1) I don't know why people are looking at user reviews on the Mac App Store for guidance. I can't think of a worse metric to use. I say read a review by a known tech writer. There are plenty out there.

2) So $60 million in revenue for the weekend. I wonder how much it cost to produce. I hope we'll be seeing these incremental updates YoY just as we've seen with iOS from the start. Waiting years and then getting a major change is not the best way to evolve the OS. I like the tick-tock method that Intel was known for and Apple has since used with Leopard/Snow Leopard and Lion/Mountain Lion. I hope to see the next revision launch next year. I also hope they move to a free update model like with iOS as I think it would lower support costs across the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

3 million in 4 days? That's LESS than last years 10.7 selling 1M in the first day¡
Don't think the sales numbers are what counts, to me it's the quality of the product. And if it's not massively popular, not some commercial success, somehow it feels more special. Kind of being part of an elite group, if you will.

The number of sales are pretty much irrelevant to the consumer, especially when you consider the number of eligible Macs that can install ML are so higher than they were for previous versions. Even if WIn8 is a market failure I don't see how it could be bad enough that it won't be break records for MS. We just have to look at Vista over XP to see that.

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post #20 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I don't know why people are looking at user reviews on the Mac App Store for guidance. I can't think of a worse metric to use. 

 

It wasn't people's 'opinion' of the OS that put me off, it was all the technical problems they were having. The chances of someone doing a professional review having an issue is pretty slim. 
 
If I could get the download to work, I'm sure it would probably install fine. I'm just not willing to take the risk yet, once Apple release an update that kills the initial bugs, I'll take the plunge then.
 
When I upgraded to Lion as soon as it was released, it totally killed one out of the two Macs I installed it on. That didn't fill me with confidence. 
 
My own personal experience, combined with what others are saying is what is putting me off.
 
post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

 

On the Appstore. Lots of people are having problems. 
 
I can't risk it killing my iMac, like Lion did, as this is my work machine (Last time I had to do a full restore from Time Machine). 
 
I'd test it out on my home 2008 MacBook, but it's not supported, which seems odd as Mountain Lion is such a minor update. 
 

 

Oddly enough- the only problem I have seems to be with my Apple TV waking my iMac up from sleep to stream my iTunes account.  I have 3 Apple TV 3s, and all 3 wont wake the iMac up from sleep anymore... I have to manually go to the computer and push the space bar to wake it up.  Pretty annoying and hoping it gets resolved soon as laying in bed trying to watch something- and I have to get up and track down to the office- sucks.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
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Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #22 of 59

I upgraded my MacBook Air since it's not my main machine. I'm waiting for a few updates before upgrading the iMac. 

post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 I've done a clean install of every OS upgrade since purchasing this machine in October 2008. Never had a problem. *EVER*. Not one. All of it was painless, each and every time. Which you'll find is the experience of the vast majority of users. Hence, the consumer satisfaction ratings we see for Macs, year after year. 

I never have done a clean install. I always just upgrade. I too have not experienced any difficulties. Question: When you do a clean install do all your applications need to be reregistered or does Time Machine reload the serial number preferences like it does with Migration tool?

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post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

It wasn't people's 'opinion' of the OS that put me off, it was all the technical problems they were having. The chances of someone doing a professional review having an issue is pretty slim. 
 
If I could get the download to work, I'm sure it would probably install fine. I'm just not willing to take the risk yet, once Apple release an update that kills the initial bugs, I'll take the plunge then.
 
When I upgraded to Lion as soon as it was released, it totally killed one out of the two Macs I installed it on. That didn't fill me with confidence. 
 
My own personal experience, combined with what others are saying is what is putting me off.
 

I understand the concern of some unusual issue making your Mac unusual but you'll have to risk that with every update. Waiting for x.x.1 isn't going to make that risk disappear. I do recommend that people use Disk Utility to repair permissions and verify the disk first. Then after the Download I recommend that people make a copy of the installer file, even going so far as to Restore it to a USB flash drive or burn to a DVD, just in case.

That said, in the end you do have to what is most comfortable for you. I know people that are waiting not because of the potential for the OS to brick their machine but because they have a professional app that they need certified to work with ML because updating.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #25 of 59

Seriously, if there were major problems with Mountain Lion I'm sure the PC rags/sites would be jumping all over the place to make it news!!

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post #26 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

 

On the Appstore. Lots of people are having problems. 
 
I can't risk it killing my iMac, like Lion did, as this is my work machine (Last time I had to do a full restore from Time Machine). 
 
I'd test it out on my home 2008 MacBook, but it's not supported, which seems odd as Mountain Lion is such a minor update. 
 

One of my machines got screwed up by ML. That is, I could no longer access the App store. Black screens, errors, super slow, not available - were the kinds of things the App store threw at me. Researching this I found that this problem preceded ML and so I followed some of the suggested remedies. These are not remedies that anyone should have to do, and most 'normal' people would be very hesitant - (burrowing into the libraries and deleting files), but one of the 'cures' worked for me. Now it is all good. 

 

If you want to upgrade your iMac make a copy using CCC or similar first. If you have to restore it is much better than using TM.

post #27 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Waiting for x.x.1 isn't going to make that risk disappear. 

 

I know, but it will lower the risk, an initial point release often has big bugs that Apple only find out about once it goes out to the public. 
 
I was only going to upgrade for the sake of it anyway. If there were some major new benefits to ML, I might risk it. But as far as I can see, it just has a couple of IOS style Apps that I'm not going to use, and some new screen savers. In the past when I've upgraded, I've lost compatibility with a lot of stuff (Like Rosetta), but I can't think of anything I've actually gained.
 
Upgrading to ML is just like playing Russian Roulette without the chance to win anything.
 
post #28 of 59

Well, My mid-2011 MB Air choked on OS X 10.8 and the SSD got hosed. It's now in an Apple store getting a $1G 256GB SSD replacement that OWC sells for $350. Guess they pay those Geniuses a lot for their labor? 

post #29 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downpour View Post

I tried to buy it a few days after launch and just got a 404 error... While I repeatedly tried to get it to work, I noticed all the negative reviews.

I think I'll wait until 10.8.1 now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Too many horror stories - I'll pass.
The last upgrade still has me ticked.

That's why people should back up their system before upgrading. Those that depend on their computer should be running some sort of daily backup system, if not Time Machine. I personally like installing a new OS to a secondary drive first, before committing it it as a primary drive.

Most of the time, you're fine, but if you're doing a major update, you might be screwed if something goes wrong and you don't have a good backup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I never have done a clean install. I always just upgrade. I too have not experienced any difficulties. Question: When you do a clean install do all your applications need to be reregistered or does Time Machine reload the serial number preferences like it does with Migration tool?

My experience is most software manages to stay registered.
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

Look at the Apple support forums, there are lots of scary looking reports. I took the plunge and have had zero problems, so I'm relieved. Mountain Lion is a decent incremental upgrade, with no obvious breakage so far.

Do you believe everything you read? More so don't discount the human factors here, many screw up their systems and then look for others to blame.

I'm not saying Mountain Lion is perfect, but one needs to realize no OS is. It is software after all. So far it has been a very worthwhile update for me!
post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Considering the small number of computers that will accept the Mountain Lion upgrade, I guess that number is relatively good.  I'm sure Microsoft will claim 3 million Windows 8 upgrades within the first hour.

small?  numbers please?  I'm upgrading 4 year old computers this past weekend.  No problems.  Are you saying the comet's tail of Mac back to G4's (I've still got 2 in the fleet) should run Mac OSX?  

 

Oh, and explain why over 50% of all computers still run XP?  I would posit that most of those owners (corps) don't want to risk the incompatibilities their chipsets have in relation to Vista and Win 7.  Of those XP systems, how many are WIN8 ready?  Yes, you need to include video drivers, disk drives,  I would argue none.

 

So, in essense, Apple, in supporting 4 years of computing platforms with the current release, and 7 years with the prior release is bad, but Microsoft, who can't retire XP because they can't build an OS to support 'last years computers' (in XP in 2006 and Win7 in 2009). 

 

Sometimes I agree that an OS must support older HW, but I also like the fact that as computational power increases, the OS takes advantage of it.  I'm having a hard enough time with the fracturing of ML, in that my older systems don't get fast awake (but waking from hibernation is a lot faster), Airplay (not an i5/i7 chip).   My guess is a computer older than a Core 2 Duo would not get any benefit of the new OS, because of the OS taking advantage of new Hardware capabilities.   And at that point, you're getting into the Win8Pro Win8Expert Win8Beginner (or whatever) sort of fracturing of an OS capabilities, something that I don't like (even in ML... I want AirPlay on my Core2Duo!!!!).

 

In the end, it's the law of large numbers... MS will have 3million upgrades in a weekend, because MS has 3million hackers who define their value by the ability to be 'first movers'  But really most of the Win 8 licenses will not be upgrades, but will be new purchases.  And even there, most OEMs will be offering it only as an option.

post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

The entry fee to the Apple ecosystem via a Mac is no less than $1000 (unless you count the Mini.)

 

I do, it's my only Mac :)  Well, my wife has an MBA and we both have iPads and iPhones.  But the Mini was my entry to the Mac world finally last August.  I've admired Apple products for ages, but never really had the impetus (or cash) to make the jump.  Then my PC died last July and I had a tax return coming in a week.  The Mini will get passed to my kids when I upgrade away from it.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

 

Oddly enough- the only problem I have seems to be with my Apple TV waking my iMac up from sleep to stream my iTunes account.  I have 3 Apple TV 3s, and all 3 wont wake the iMac up from sleep anymore... I have to manually go to the computer and push the space bar to wake it up.  Pretty annoying and hoping it gets resolved soon as laying in bed trying to watch something- and I have to get up and track down to the office- sucks.

 

I have a 2011 Mini and an ATV2 and it never wanted to wake the Mini up.  If the Mini sat too w/the ATV not actually showing anything, it would hide the computer and we would have to go smack a couple of keys.  I decided since the Mini uses so little power to just set it to never sleep now.  Problem avoided :)


Edited by SSquirrel - 7/30/12 at 9:24am
post #33 of 59

Is there an average time between when a Mac OS upgrade is initially released and when it starts appearing on the newest releases of their hardware (iMacs, MacBooks, etc)?

 

I plan on getting a new MacBook Pro (non-Retina) soon and would rather wait until I don't instantly have to go through the upgrade/update hassle. Aside from possible upgrade probs, my USB modem only allows for 5Gb a month! That's usually satisfactory, but not when really huge downloads come along.

 

I'm kinda tempted to wait for iLife 2012 (or whatever they end up calling it), also. Mountain Lion is the main concern, though.

post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Do you believe everything you read? More so don't discount the human factors here, many screw up their systems and then look for others to blame.
I'm not saying Mountain Lion is perfect, but one needs to realize no OS is. It is software after all. So far it has been a very worthwhile update for me!

Sure- a ton of people screw up their systems.  Although- I'd say pretty rarely nowadays.  A typical user couldnt find the Library folder if they tried since Lion started hiding it.

 

Regardless- there are always little qwirks that happen that arent the user's fault.  For example- me.  I had 3 Apple TVs, and they all woke up my 10.7.4 iMac while it was sleeping to stream from iTunes.  I repaired permissions, then downloaded and installed ML, and now it doesn't wake it up anymore.

 

In all seriousness- so little changed with this update fundamentally, that upgrading it would be more like a big 10.7.5 update rather than a completely new update.  They basically add reminders and notes to iCloud, a crippled messages app, airplay for some macs (which works flawlessly on my 2012 Air btw), and notifications- which you could view as a  program a 3rd party app could do.  The biggest fundamental change is really dictation- which I wont really use- but it is insanely accurate and lightning fast.  So there arent really a ton of changes at the core- just some new applications really.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kento96 View Post

Is there an average time between when a Mac OS upgrade is initially released and when it starts appearing on the newest releases of their hardware (iMacs, MacBooks, etc)?

 

I plan on getting a new MacBook Pro (non-Retina) soon and would rather wait until I don't instantly have to go through the upgrade/update hassle. Aside from possible upgrade probs, my USB modem only allows for 5Gb a month! That's usually satisfactory, but not when really huge downloads come along.

 

I'm kinda tempted to wait for iLife 2012 (or whatever they end up calling it), also. Mountain Lion is the main concern, though.

They will ship with Mountain Lion now.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #36 of 59

I'd love to say I got a VALID password to the PDF containing the code to download from the Mac App Store...but I can't.

post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleFanPro View Post

I upgraded my MacBook Air since it's not my main machine. I'm waiting for a few updates before upgrading the iMac. 

 

I almost gave up doing the MBA upgrade because the machine was constantly freezing up during the download.  It turn out the machine was freezing when it went into sleep mode.  I had to disable sleep mode and the screensaver to make it work.  Has it turn out, there was a firmware patch for the Air regarding a sleep mode bug. The MBA is now fine and its running the new OS X


Edited by herbapou - 7/30/12 at 9:38am
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

 

Oddly enough- the only problem I have seems to be with my Apple TV waking my iMac up from sleep to stream my iTunes account.  I have 3 Apple TV 3s, and all 3 wont wake the iMac up from sleep anymore... I have to manually go to the computer and push the space bar to wake it up.  Pretty annoying and hoping it gets resolved soon as laying in bed trying to watch something- and I have to get up and track down to the office- sucks.

 

I also have multiple problems with the ATV2 .  It wont wake the mac and often it will simply stop working.  I have to unplug it almost each time I need to use it.  They should put a power button on those things.

 

But what I would love to get is a time capsuled  with an itunes server build in and bigger storage.  I hope Apple upgrade it soon.

post #39 of 59

I have never understood all the problems people have had with an update.  I have updated every OS immediately when it came out since Tiger and have had no problem.  Each OS is clean and intuitive and a step forward from the previous.

post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's why people should back up their system before upgrading. Those that depend on their computer should be running some sort of daily backup system, if not Time Machine. I personally like installing a new OS to a secondary drive first, before committing it it as a primary drive.
Most of the time, you're fine, but if you're doing a major update, you might be screwed if something goes wrong and you don't have a good backup.
My experience is most software manages to stay registered.

I didn't even think to mention that earlier in the thread because I'm so used to it happening automatically that it didn't occur to me that this isn't a natural routine for people. I remember when Steve, i think, was on stage talking about how few people even back up when Time Machine was first introduced. it really has made it a simple process to do. It's also easier than ever to encrypt your Time Machine backups with ML.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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