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Samsung exec says patent struggle with Apple is 'unreasonable' - Page 2

post #41 of 140
How can anyone say this Samsung phone is not a copy of the iPhone? And since other Samsung phones look nothing like this (or the iPhone) how can Samsung whine about fighting over rectangles? It's obvious there is more than one way to design a phone and in some cases Samsung chose the easy way out by copying.

samsung-joke.jpg
post #42 of 140

Your child like use of the word "allegedly" lowers the level of discourse. Look it up, use it properly, stop being a sheep.

post #43 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How can anyone say this Samsung phone is not a copy of the iPhone? And since other Samsung phones look nothing like this (or the iPhone) how can Samsung whine about fighting over rectangles? It's obvious there is more than one way to design a phone and in some cases Samsung chose the easy way out by copying.
samsung-joke.jpg

One has a Samsung logo and the other has an Apple logo. What more can you ask for? /s

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #44 of 140
Code:

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think there are not a lot of android lovers out there who believe this guys rectangle comment. Just check out Daily tech forums for some prime examples. I think it is important to remember there are a lot of people who think it is good to steal ip. They started convincing themselves back when they began downloading music and porn. Now they want less expensive electronics and cell phones. If someone on that jury sees it to be in their best interest to lie to the judge about their bias prior to jury selection, then that is just what they are going to do.

Are any of the rest of you guys seeing how possible it is for Apple to get shafted in their home court?
post #45 of 140
I hope Samsung is relying completely on this lickspittle for innovation.
post #46 of 140

Prove Apple wrong, Samsung. Shut Apple down in the courts. 

 

Oh wait . . . 

 

Apple's case has merit. 

post #47 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In an interview with Wired, Samsung's Chief Product Officer Kevin Packingham alludes to Apple's aggressive pursuit of patent litigation and finds it "unreasonable that we?re fighting over rectangles, that that?s being considered as an infringement."

And this is really just a yellow M:



If you oversimplify things, then of course design patents and trademarks seem ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

stifling competition with design patents that are not "particularly unique, and really don?t represent intellectual property."

I'd say Apple's iPhone and iPad designs were pretty unique until everyone else started making their products look the same. The uniqueness certainly wears off when everybody copies something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider 
"In the current environment, there?s just one company that?s firing the first shot consistently," Packingham said. "Most everybody else seems to be getting along really well".

Yeah all the Android-using manufacturers and ultra-book manufacturers are getting along really well and they all want to copy what Apple is doing. Just because there's no in-fighting amongst a gang of thieves doesn't mean the victim has no right shouting about their theft.
post #48 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"In the current environment, there?s just one company that?s firing the first shot consistently," Packingham said. "Most everybody else seems to be getting along really well. 

 

 

Honour among thieves. This sloth-like, lazy industry is guilty at large. 

 

The patent and court systems exist. Apple has used them and is using them. Others were either too slow or too ignorant to wake up. 

 

Everybody had a chance to pull off a June 2007 and a January 2010. And now they're feeling the PAIN of their own neglect and blindness. 

 

If Apple had no case, they'd have left the litigation behind by now. But surprise surprise, Apple has tested their claims in court and are doing fairly well.

 

When the going gets tough, Samsung cries foul. Looks like they aren't too confident. 

post #49 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

And this is really just a yellow M:

If you oversimplify things, then of course design patents and trademarks seem ridiculous.




"Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds."

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #50 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

"Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds."

That's classic.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #51 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post


Is that Steve Buscemi in drag?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #52 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


He's standing next to rectangles made of glass edged in metal. I wonder if thinks Apple has a patent on those?


That photo indeed smacks of irony.

post #53 of 140
It's what inside the rectangles Peckerhead.
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post #54 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post


That photo indeed smacks of irony.

It was so obviously posed as to be a joke.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #55 of 140

No I won't because I won't be buying that brand and no it's not ironic because I was aware of it.

Give it time. I am sure Apple is looking to build new alliances and partnerships with other component providers.

post #56 of 140

"fighting over rectangles"???

 

Answer me this, Packing Ham (which, OMG, really?), If this is about rectangles, how come nobody ever mistakes this rectangle for an iPad --->>>>

700

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #57 of 140

so... ur not gunna get ANY apple products until they form new alliances?

post #58 of 140

anyone care to explain what you mean by "more than just rectangles"? Don't give me explanations related to software, operating system, etc. I know those are part of the lawsuit, but they're completely separate from the design aspect, which seems to be the main focus of this discussion.

 

in the design aspect, what do you mean by more than just rectangles?
 

post #59 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

Yeah you will.  The next time you buy an Apple product, you will be buying several Samsung products.  

 

But one of Samsung's biggest customers is our own, dearly beloved Apple.

True. But I doubt this condition will last for long.

Apple is not burning their bridges (as Samsung has done.) But they seem to be working deliberately and decisively to move away from Samsung as a supplier. My guess is that Samsung will be getting a far smaller share of Apple's business within the next year or so. After all, Samsung is not much of an innovator. They sell commodity electronic components. Whichever companies Apple awards their business and assistance to will become formidable competitors and hugely disruptive to Samsung for years to come.

post #60 of 140

It is obvious that Samsung had their own designs for Galaxy Tab and Galaxy phones before Apple designs were released.  Their OS is not iOS.  They have very different dimentions in every products than Apple's.  Theirs are made of mainly plastic whereas Apple's glass and aluminum.  So what makes you think that Samsung copied Apple?

 

I think you have a point in similarities about the accessories and packaging in Samsung products, but are they really serious infringements of something that Apple has to ban entire products?  There is no confusion from the consumers, but if Apple really care about this, why not ask Samsung to change the accessory and packaging designs?

 

One other question that I have wanted to ask you since the beginning.  Is this a discussion site for Apple shareholders?  (Appleinisder = Appleshareholder?)  Why this arrogant Apple practice (copycat calling&suing copycat) is good thing to consumers, if you are not shareholders?  If you really care about Apple as a consumer, you should be asking Apple to innovate as they did in 2007 rather than cheering up this nonsense.  Just me thought.

post #61 of 140
It doesn't matter who you are, when you steal someone's stuff, they will be pissed at you.

Why Samsung is shocked by this fact, I don't know.
post #62 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilboteabagins View Post

Your child like use of the word "allegedly" lowers the level of discourse. Look it up, use it properly, stop being a sheep.

It seems your proscription would best be applied to your own post.

post #63 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post

It doesn't matter who you are, when you steal someone's stuff, they will be pissed at you.
Why Samsung is shocked by this fact, I don't know.

Tell me exactly what Samsung has stolen from Apple.

post #64 of 140
Originally Posted by hjb View Post
Tell me exactly what Samsung has stolen from Apple.

 

Intellectual property - hardware

Intellectual property - software

Trade dress

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #65 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb View Post

It is obvious that Samsung had their own designs for Galaxy Tab and Galaxy phones before Apple designs were released.  Their OS is not iOS.  They have very different dimentions in every products than Apple's.  Theirs are made of mainly plastic whereas Apple's glass and aluminum.  So what makes you think that Samsung copied Apple?

 

I think you have a point in similarities about the accessories and packaging in Samsung products, but are they really serious infringements of something that Apple has to ban entire products?  There is no confusion from the consumers, but if Apple really care about this, why not ask Samsung to change the accessory and packaging designs?

 

One other question that I have wanted to ask you since the beginning.  Is this a discussion site for Apple shareholders?  (Appleinisder = Appleshareholder?)  Why this arrogant Apple practice (copycat calling&suing copycat) is good thing to consumers, if you are not shareholders?  If you really care about Apple as a consumer, you should be asking Apple to innovate as they did in 2007 rather than cheering up this nonsense.  Just me thought.

No offense, but I would expect few serious responses to your questions. You do not appear to understand patent law, design patents, or trade dress.

Apple has the design patent. The iPhone was shown before the Galaxy Tab was released. The OS is immaterial. The dimensions are not "very different," although the dimensions are immaterial as well, apart from the overall design. The material choice can be part of trade dress, but is only a piece of the overall design. etc.

 

I'm sure many people here are AAPL shareholders (I am.)

Nonetheless, I doubt that's the strongest bias AppleInsider visitors have for or against Apple. Most people probably just really like or dislike Apple, or certain things about Apple and their products for a variety of reasons.

post #66 of 140

Personally, I think patents are for the sissy who's product can't hold market share. All these companies hiding behind patent infringement lawsuits are like children yelling back and forth... "I had it first!... No, I had it first... NO I had it first...." grow up and realize that patents don't make a great product... people do. bunch of babies holding on to a deprecated system.

post #67 of 140
Originally Posted by platypus View Post
Personally, I think patents are for the sissy who's product can't hold market share.

 

Note to self, Edison was a "sissy" whose products wouldn't have otherwise taken off…  


…bunch of babies holding on to a deprecated system.

 

And he'll go on to say he's fine with trademarks and copyrights.

 

Or that "everyone should share everything and then it'll be a magical land where innovation and free markets reign! We would have cured cancer if it hadn't been for patents!"

 

Can we just agree that your position is wrong and leave it at that? 

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #68 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


And this is really just a yellow M:
700
If you oversimplify things, then of course design patents and trademarks seem ridiculous.
I'd say Apple's iPhone and iPad designs were pretty unique until everyone else started making their products look the same. The uniqueness certainly wears off when everybody copies something.
Yeah all the Android-using manufacturers and ultra-book manufacturers are getting along really well and they all want to copy what Apple is doing. Just because there's no in-fighting amongst a gang of thieves doesn't mean the victim has no right shouting about their theft.

 

Marvin, whilst a mod here, is not backward in criticising Apple, and nails it right here.

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post #69 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb View Post

If you really care about Apple as a consumer, you should be asking Apple to innovate as they did in 2007 rather than cheering up this nonsense.  Just me thought.
Think about what you just said. What incentive would Apple have - or anyone for that matter - to invest a large sum of money in research and development to create the innovation that consumers desire, if it is unable to reap the full economic benefits of its investment. I fail to see how copying someone else's designs or stealing someone else's intellectual property helps innovation. How can you equate copying to innovation?

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post #70 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by platypus View Post

Personally, I think patents are for the sissy who's product can't hold market share. All these companies hiding behind patent infringement lawsuits are like children yelling back and forth... "I had it first!... No, I had it first... NO I had it first...." grow up and realize that patents don't make a great product... people do. bunch of babies holding on to a deprecated system.

What an apt username.
post #71 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hc6815 View Post

anyone care to explain what you mean by "more than just rectangles"? Don't give me explanations related to software, operating system, etc. I know those are part of the lawsuit, but they're completely separate from the design aspect, which seems to be the main focus of this discussion.

 

in the design aspect, what do you mean by more than just rectangles?
 

 

I suggest you go search through any of the hundreds of previous threads on the topic.

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post #72 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

No offense, but I would expect few serious responses to your questions. You do not appear to understand patent law, design patents, or trade dress.

Apple has the design patent. The iPhone was shown before the Galaxy Tab was released. The OS is immaterial. The dimensions are not "very different," although the dimensions are immaterial as well, apart from the overall design. The material choice can be part of trade dress, but is only a piece of the overall design. etc.

 

I'm sure many people here are AAPL shareholders (I am.)

Nonetheless, I doubt that's the strongest bias AppleInsider visitors have for or against Apple. Most people probably just really like or dislike Apple, or certain things about Apple and their products for a variety of reasons.

If you look the Samsung digital photo frame marketed in 2006.  It really resembles Galaxy Tab and Ipad.  The frame itself is not unrelated products if you see the specs.  I guess, they developed from the frame when they saw the market which Apple seemed to have created.  The Apple's Ipad design patent does not look like Ipad nor Galaxy Tab.  It really look like Knight Riders tablet (Tablet Newspapers 1994) and a bunch of tablet computers prior to 2004, see the recent UK rulling.

 

For this iPhone design patent, I do not see much resemblance.  Samsung had their own designs (rectangular shape with rounded corners with UIs before iPhone released)  In the image comparason, you are comparing home screen with iPhone and application drawer on Android, which is not Samsung's.  In real world, they look different (in fact home screen of all android phones out there are look different)

 

So, what is material in this?

post #73 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post


Think about what you just said. What incentive would Apple have - or anyone for that matter - to invest a large sum of money in research and development to create the innovation that consumers desire, if it is unable to reap the full economic benefits of its investment. I fail to see how copying someone else's designs or stealing someone else's intellectual property helps innovation. How can you equate copying to innovation?

 

Sorry if I offended you.  

 

But then how much Apple wants?  $110 billion is not enough?  How much Apple is investing R&D on their income?  I read somewhere that Samsung is investing tens of billiions every year, but how much by Apple?

 

Again what exactly Samsung copied Apple?  If Samsung copied (I dont know yet), what Apple has been doing?  Are you sure Apple is not copying.  If yes, how do you know?

 

Are you saying Samsung is not innovating?

post #74 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hc6815 View Post

the before and after iphone/ipad picture doesn't prove samsung copied apple. if you read samsung's trial brief, you'll see samsung's internal design plans document dated 2006, before the iphone came out, that shows that Samsung had been planning rectangular, curved corner designs for their phones before the iphone came out, and thus didn't change their designs completely in response to Apple's iphone release in 2007

The F700 I presume you are referring to was a rectangle with a slide out keyboard, the design patent Samsung lodged would include this i.e. it is not like an iPhone.

I guess it's back to the drawing board for you, the F700 doesn't toe the official Samsung Internet trolling line.
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post #75 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1000
"Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds."

That about sums it up. Thumbs Up!

post #76 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post


Think about what you just said. What incentive would Apple have - or anyone for that matter - to invest a large sum of money in research and development to create the innovation that consumers desire, if it is unable to reap the full economic benefits of its investment. I fail to see how copying someone else's designs or stealing someone else's intellectual property helps innovation. How can you equate copying to innovation?

That was almost too easy. Surely the poster could've thought of this ohh so obvious argument himself.

post #77 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb View Post

Sorry if I offended you.  

But then how much Apple wants?  $110 billion is not enough?  How much Apple is investing R&D on their income?  I read somewhere that Samsung is investing tens of billiions every year, but how much by Apple?

Again what exactly Samsung copied Apple?  If Samsung copied (I dont know yet), what Apple has been doing?  Are you sure Apple is not copying.  If yes, how do you know?

Are you saying Samsung is not innovating?
Not offended at all, you misread my tone. I didn't mention Samsung at all, or infer that they were not innovating. I was responding to your comment that could be paraphrased as stating that Apple should forget about protecting their intellectual property and go back to innovating. To me it seems that innovation is stifled without protection, I can't see any other way around it. It doesn't matter to me which side Apple or Samsung is on, copying is just not conducive to innovation.

In this post you seem to suggest a somewhat socialist idea that innovation should be rewarded, but only up to a determined level of profit. I'm not making a judgement on this, just trying to understand.

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post #78 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1000
"Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds."
 

 

 

If Samsung actually called themselves aApple or their products IFon, then I agree with you.  Or you mean you can not have beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions in your bugger in US?

post #79 of 140
Originally Posted by hjb View Post
If Samsung actually called themselves aApple or their products IFon, then I agree with you.

 

 

1000

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #80 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post


Not offended at all, you misread my tone. I didn't mention Samsung at all, or infer that they were not innovating. I was responding to your comment that could be paraphrased as stating that Apple should forget about protecting their intellectual property and go back to innovating. To me it seems that innovation is stifled without protection, I can't see any other way around it. It doesn't matter to me which side Apple or Samsung is on, copying is just not conducive to innovation.
In this post you seem to suggest a somewhat socialist idea that innovation should be rewarded, but only up to a determined level of profit. I'm not making a judgement on this, just trying to understand.

 

No I did not mean that Apple should forget about protecting IP.  If you see the Apple some of those patents seen in the media, however, do seem to be too obvious to be patented.  I agree with you that copying prevents innovation (no one has been against that here in fact)

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