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Apple focuses on quality products not money, says designer Jonathan Ive - Page 2

post #41 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 

I would believe that more if they didn't make 40% Gross Margin on most of their products.

 

Of course it's all about making money. That's what public corporations do. Apple is not a charity building products for the good of humanity.

 

If it's not about the money why don't they donate all their profits to charity.

 

Way to let what he said fly completely over your head. Seriously, are you that obtuse? Is that what you got from what he said? You think the primary motivation of people like Steve Jobs, Jonathan Ive, and even Tim Cook is to make money? That's what made SJ stay up nights obsessing over the most mundane details that a CEO would never bother him about, and why he was giving keynotes a couple months before his death? Because he was dreaming about the balance sheet? Thats where the passion comes from? Incredible. What Ive said that if the product is great the money will come. You focus on the product, thats the end result. Not that hard of a concept to understand. There are so many points in Apple's history where it seems there was a much easier way to make easy money than the risky route they ended up taking. What a disgusting, cynical view, in that either someone's primary motivation is money, and if not they need to give it all away. What a reasonable, practical, realistic perspective you have there. 

post #42 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacerays View Post


Get a life Shaun, watch the Olympics, stop trolling here.


He could be at the Olympics scoping out the talent for all we know.


Edited by SolipsismX - 7/30/12 at 7:01pm

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post #43 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

 

 

No, in my world, the normal way that big companies do things makes more sense than someone claiming nonsensical platitudes.  Especially when he is on a PR mission.

I can see the appeal to this way of thinking; only those things I can make sense of are true, therefore if I cannot make sense of it it must not be true.  Very comforting.  Despite it's appeal, though, it is neither rigorous nor well reasoned.

post #44 of 119
Ive is really cute at trying to make everybody believe that Apple works to give beauty to the world. I think he's 50% doing PR and 50% sincerely influenced by his work. If he's doing what he's doing that's because SJ thought he was good at doing design without thinking about the cost. It's up to the CEO to think money. For certain Apple is inarguably the only company in the world to make such high quality products (at least their exterior aspect, not talking about components' quality). Sony was at its place once but in now trails with all others far behind.
post #45 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

 

 

Because the statement  makes little or no sense in the context of a for-profit multinational corporation?

 

His statement actually makes complete sense, if you're a semi-intelligent human being that can spend a couple seconds thinking about the concept. Seriously, it's not that tough. I very much doubt Jonathan Ive gets inspiration to make his designs drooling about how much money he might make. Is it so difficut to understand there are many others at APple like him, who actually have a passion for the product, and doing amazing work? As he said, money tends to follow, if people like what you do and buy it. It doesn't mean making huge sums of cash was the original goal. Apple has a ton of cash because a ton of people buy their stuff. Who the hell DOESNT want to make money? Who DISLIKES money? It's not either this or that. It doesn't mean it was their primary motivator. There's absolutely no contradiction in his statement, but one wonders about people like you who pretend not to get it so you can make some assinine commentary. 

post #46 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


He could be at the Olympics scoping out the talent for all we know.

 

I wouldn't say no. Don't you just love those Aussie women. I'm more into the beach volleyball at the moment as the athletics hasn't started yet. lol.gif

post #47 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Johnny is thinking "oh shit I knew I should have shaved today" "oh wait I did.  I should have worn shorts."

 

She's probably saying "I say my dear fellow can you get me a glass of champers please" and he replies "Yes m'lady"

post #48 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Way to let what he said fly completely over your head. Seriously, are you that obtuse? Is that what you got from what he said? You think the primary motivation of people like Steve Jobs, Jonathan Ive, and even Tim Cook is to make money? That's what made SJ stay up nights obsessing over the most mundane details that a CEO would never bother him about, and why he was giving keynotes a couple months before his death? Because he was dreaming about the balance sheet? Thats where the passion comes from? Incredible. What Ive said that if the product is great the money will come. You focus on the product, thats the end result. Not that hard of a concept to understand. There are so many points in Apple's history where it seems there was a much easier way to make easy money than the risky route they ended up taking. What a disgusting, cynical view, in that either someone's primary motivation is money, and if not they need to give it all away. What a reasonable, practical, realistic perspective you have there. 
People just look at the bottom line and see $8bn in profit and think Ive's full of it. I don't think most of them are really that obtuse, they just hate Apple, hated Steve Jobs and Ive has become the new Jobs (in terms of hate) for them.
post #49 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I wouldn't say no. Don't you just love those Aussie women.

I'm not allow to comment that I find a woman attractive or AppleGreen(?) will derail the thread calling me racist against women or something else just as silly.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #50 of 119
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post
"I don't want your money. If you offer me $5 billion, I won't want it. I've got plenty of money. I want you to stop using our ideas in Android, that's all I want." - Steve Jobs

 

When Samsung loses, they're going to cite that as the reason they can't "legally" be fined $25 billion, forced to recall all their products, and to stop using Android on their devices.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #51 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 

I would believe that more if they didn't make 40% Gross Margin on most of their products. ...

 

I think you're missing the point entirely.  A 40% margin is a normal profit and very typical of most industries.  By simply adding that on everything, they completely eliminate having to worry about the money part at all.  If it was about making money, the margin would vary and it would be equal to "whatever they can get" or in other words, much higher.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

... Of course it's all about making money. That's what public corporations do. Apple is not a charity building products for the good of humanity.

 

If it's not about the money why don't they donate all their profits to charity.

 

 

Wrong again.  And these statements are not mutually exclusive anyway.  Just because it "isn't about the money" doesn't mean they would give all the money away.  Those two things are not equal at all, why would they be?   Apple builds products because it's what they do and they like to do it.  They add the profit margin so they can keep doing it, but the *reason* they exist is to make the products, not the money.  It's pretty much exactly as Ive says.  

post #52 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmfe View Post

I'm guessing that was rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway.  Without profits, they cannot fund the research and development of future products.  I guess you could argue they make more money than is necessary for R&D.  However, the cash hoard has been used to create economies of scale necessary to bring the products to market at a price point that is required by the market.  So, I'd still argue the "excess" profit is part of the strategy to use money for the benefit of the product.  

 

Besides, the quote from Ive is a statement of priority and focus not absolutes.  Money exists to allow for the creation of products rather than products being produced for the creation of profit.   Both statements require two things - money and products.  The difference is one of priority and focus.

 

Of course, the simplest answer is that Ive is in a better position to speak about the goals and motivations of Apple than you or I.  Without real information to the contrary, I see no reason to doubt Ive's statement.

 

Thanks for saving this thread for me.  You are one of the only people that seems to get it.  

 

I was dismaying at all these otherwise smart people making all the idiotic comments about (paraphrased) "of course it's about the money because everything is about the money."  Anyone who seriously thinks this has no idea about how business is supposed to work. 

post #53 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Are you really that obtuse?

 

More like pathological. Beating up on Apple users gives his life meaning. It really does.

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post #54 of 119
This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I've heard Ive say Apple's goals are great products not making money. Outside of Cook he's really the only one who gives interviews. If Tim Cook or anyone else took issue with what Ive said he would've been told by now to stop saying it or more likely Apple PR wouldn't allow him to give interviews.
post #55 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Are you really that obtuse?

He is. Don't feed.

post #56 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post

 

He came off as a bit obtuse, but his overall point is still valid.

 

It is completely ridiculous to say that Apple does not focus on money......

You really didn't read the article, did you?

post #57 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post



The goal is 100% about money.  The means to that goal involves making products that people pay lots of money for.  

Jerry, you need some Zen to understand the principle of making money before you can understand what made Apple so successful. Striving for perfection eventually brings wealth. It doesn't happen overnight but if you are persistent and do not lose sight of your idealist goals, people will flock to you, and throw money at you, but the money is not the goal. The goal is to become as close to perfect as you possibly can. All good things will follow you if you maintain your focus on the purity of your ideals.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #58 of 119
Quote:

I would believe that more if they didn't make 40% Gross Margin on most of their products.

I wonder whether Apple's competitors would be able to sell anything at all if Apple's margins were as low as theirs?

post #59 of 119

Two things that SJ would say -- in keynote after keynote -- still resonate for me.

 

Paraphrasing: "We want to surprise and delight our customers;" and, "It's all about the music."

 

Do you think the CEO of, say, ATT, Comcast, Samsung, Microsoft -- pick yours -- would ever be heard saying something like that?

post #60 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 
Johnny is thinking "oh shit I knew I should have shaved today" "oh wait I did.  I should have worn shorts."

Looks to me like he's trying to distract her while he sneaks an iPhone up her dress. She caught him out the corner of her eye though and was probably thinking the same thing as him. There's a reason they improved the low-light performance and stabilisation in the 4S - he knew this day would come.

I like Jonathan Ive's remarks on the design values they have at Apple. While it's easy for people who make a lot of money to say that money isn't the driving force, they demonstrate it with their products and there's no denying Ive has a strong passion for design. Other companies like to project that they hold similar values but their message comes from an auto-cue. You can't just read your values from a script, you have to live your life by them and it's the only way Apple has managed repeated success over the years.

It would be nice to see some of their other product designers once and a while too. Surely Ive isn't the only hardware designer working at Apple.
post #61 of 119
Steve Jobs has always preached about putting product before everything else.

This is nothing new to people that know anything about Apple as it was in the beginning till now.

And in a sense it is true. Apple has taken huge scary leaps where other companies haven't. Many products they've introduce have had no proven market either, but they put the product first and took a gamble on a great product creating the market, and hopefully making money.

That tactic has worked many times, and sometimes not, but at least Apple takes the chance.
post #62 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It would be nice to see some of their other product designers once and a while too. Surely Ive isn't the only hardware designer working at Apple.
I'm surprised Apple allows Ive to give interviews. Who else at Apple besides Tim Cook gives interviews (other than Phil Schiller maybe giving a few quotes after a product launch)? I don't think I've ever seen an interview with Scott Forstall.
post #63 of 119

"We care about quality products, not money. Because THAT is how we actually make all our money."

 

Focus on the product and those who are supposed to use it. And then the billions of $$$ magically take care of themselves. 

 

Insanely simple.

post #64 of 119
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Do you think the CEO of, say, ATT, Comcast, Samsung, Microsoft -- pick yours -- would ever be heard saying something like that?

 

 

"Music, sweet music…"

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #65 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

More like pathological. Beating up on Apple users gives his life meaning. It really does.

 

I'm not "beating up" on anyone. I simply expressed an opinion which seems to warrant a witch hunt on here. Please feel free to put me on ignore. I'm not here to antagonise anyone and I certainly don't enjoy the abuse I get. I was simply commenting on the article I read. It's called free speech. Maybe you should go live in China or North Korea were nobody is allowed to disagree with the perceived wisdom. I'm sure you would enjoy that.

post #66 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmfe View Post

I can see the appeal to this way of thinking; only those things I can make sense of are true, therefore if I cannot make sense of it it must not be true.  Very comforting.  Despite it's appeal, though, it is neither rigorous nor well reasoned.

Nor is it my way of thinking, neither in this thread nor in any other context.

 

But thanks for playing.

post #67 of 119
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Then do us all (including yourself) a favor and get lost.
Please.

Let's give Shaun a break. Historically he has been a reasonably level headed poster. He got a little of track and on the defensive just lately but I'm one of worst in that regard so I give him a pass since he clearly is not a hater troll but a good guy all 'round in my book.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #68 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Then do us all (including yourself) a favor and get lost.
Please.

Who are you to tell someone to leave? This is an open forum, if you want a closed conversation I suggest talking to yourself in a mirror, that way you'll be almost sure not to disagree with your speaker.

I've re-read the first page and can see that he expressed his opinion in one inital post, that's the point of a forum. His opinion was debatable and could be argued upon. Then he gets :
- "You're not a specialist" treatment (not a businessman),
- "that's a stupid comment"
- "are you really that obtuse"

He argues, does not insult

- "your statement is stupid", "you are a troll or delusional"

Argumentation

- "Interesting world you are living in. What's the weather like?"
- "Stop trolling"

He even deflected some attempts to mock him.

I'd kindly suggest to those who wrote those things to stop and think for a moment that this is a forum and people are supposed to tell their opinions without being attacked for no reason. In that situation, if he wasn't ready to change opinion from the start, he'd become even less susceptible to do so after your insults, but you'll never know since you didn't give him the chance to change opinion.
post #69 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Let's give Shaun a break. Historically he has been a reasonably level headed poster. He got a little of track and on the defensive just lately but I'm one of worst in that regard so I give him a pass since he clearly is not a hater troll but a good guy all 'round in my book.
Yeah I'd agree. There are others who are clearly trolling. It's worse on MR but some find their way here too.
post #70 of 119
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Yeah I'd agree. There are others who are clearly trolling. It's worse on MR but some find their way here too.

I find the ambiance to be much better on MR. People don't get called trolls at the first little deviation from the Apple book.
post #71 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

Nor is it my way of thinking, neither in this thread nor in any other context.

 

But thanks for playing.

Playing?  Oh, you see this as a game?  That explains a lot.

 

I hate to be insistent, but your comment above is in direct contradiction to statements made previously in this thread.   Nevertheless, I'll take your word on it.  Interestingly, it's a courtesy you refuse to extend to those outside of your assumptions or beliefs.

post #72 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

Well, unless and until there is real information, I'll assume that Apple is a typical for-profit corporation with fiduciary responsibilities to maximize total profits.

And no, some design guy's PR stunt does not count as "real information".

First, you are out of your depth.

Second, "fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit" is bandied about greatly and commonly assumed, but it need not be part of the articles of incorporation nor must it trump other goals of the company. People can chose not to buy the stock if they do not agree with the articles of incorporation.

Third, Apple as a company and Ive as a designer have always pursued a user-centered strategy. Most other companies pursue strategies that center on technology, marketing, or fiscal factors. All are important. But for companies that desire to innovate, only a design centered strategy is reliable and sustainable. It alone leads to a superior value proposition in the eyes of the user, and therefore justifies high margins.


Edited by DESuserIGN - 7/30/12 at 8:55pm
post #73 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Thanks for saving this thread for me.  You are one of the only people that seems to get it.  

 

I was dismaying at all these otherwise smart people making all the idiotic comments about (paraphrased) "of course it's about the money because everything is about the money."  Anyone who seriously thinks this has no idea about how business is supposed to work. 

Thanks for the kind words...

 

When capitalism stopped being permissive and started being mandatory is beyond me.  I kinda liked it the old way better.

 

--The Thread Savior!

post #74 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

First, you are out of your depth.

Second, "fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit" is bandied about greatly and commonly assumed, but it need not be part of the articles of incorporation nor must it trump other goals of the company. 

But oh does it sound impressive when spoken with grit and certainty.  The truth of it is of minor concern.

post #75 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmfe View Post

But oh does it sound impressive when spoken with grit and certainty.  The truth of it is of minor concern.

I suppose we could speak with vehemence about a company's "fiduciary responsibility to maximize value and usefulness for it's customers." [No reason it couldn't be a company goal.]


Edited by DESuserIGN - 7/30/12 at 9:30pm
post #76 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We are really pleased with our revenues but our goal isn't to make money," Ive said of Apple.
 

 

But of course. This naturally explains Apple's 40% gross profit margin... their pursuit of quality.

 

*rolls eyes*

 

I have no problem with corporations making money. Hell, that's what corporations are SUPPOSED to do, but it really irks me when folks like Ive try to have it both ways here. That's naturally what is spurring Apple's ridiculous litigious actions of the last few years: Quality. We can't have other companies making "quality" products for less, now, can we?

post #77 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

I suppose we could speak with vehemence about a company's "fiduciary responsibility to maximize value and usefulness for it's customers." [No reason it couldn't be a company goal.]

 

It would certainly be more honest.

 

Not that I expect honesty from any company, mind you, even the oh so shiny house that Jobs built.

post #78 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

I suppose we could speak with vehemence about a company's "fiduciary responsibility to maximize value and usefulness for it's customers." [No reason it couldn't be a company goal.]

Exactly, no reason you can't.  There are limits to this, but wide discretion is given to the board to exercise it's business judgement.

post #79 of 119

Apple is not so not into cash that  it stashes most of its cash overseas to hide it from the Fed. Apple said it would defer "repatriating" this money until a new law is passed. I can see pig flies very soon. How about the interest that you so far amass for that big wad of cash during this "wait period"? Shouldn't you use the interest to better the lifes of your slaves working in [as most f4anbois refer to] the third world. Wait, as some f4nbois pointed out, Apple is not under any obligations to do any of this.

 

Apple is the most appalling company ever produced by capitalism, even worse than those big oils and major mines. It mirrors the founder who prolly didn't donate a single cent of his riches because he doesn't have any obligation to do so. I meant what do you expect from someone who even had stolen money from a close associate Woz during those Apple early days. Whatever his excuse was. All his early years of traveling and into Buddhism taught him nothing apparently. But, hey..., It's SJ, and he is God. He has his own fruity religion with devout followers who ready to part with their money for his designer's off-springs at a moment's notice. You have to have this kind of mentality to make Apple the company it is today after being on life support before His second coming.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Are you really that obtuse?
post #80 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrs View Post

Apple is not so not into cash that  it stashes most of its cash overseas to hide it from the Fed. Apple said it would defer "repatriating" this money until a new law is passed. I can see pig flies very soon.

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