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Obama's accomplishments.... - Page 2

post #41 of 95

People often forget that the Galactic Senate demanded that Palpatine stay in office.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #42 of 95

 

Cool.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #43 of 95
Obama: Sends drone strikes throughout Yemen, killing innocent civilians. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/opinion/bergen-yemen-drone-war/index.html
 
 
 
Obama: Sends drone strikes throughout Afghanistan, killing innocent civilians. http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/soft-on-terror-president-gently-assassinates-14
 
 
Obama: Puts crippling trade sanctions on Iran to provoke another war, similar to events leading up to Pearl Harbor. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19069793
 
Obama: Signs NDAA, which allows for the indefinite detainment of US citizens outside of a warzone, without a trial or even being charged with a crime. http://rt.com/usa/news/ndaa-judge-obama-forrest-295/
 
Obama: Appoints czars to bypass Congress and extend the powers of the executive branch even more than Bush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars
 
Obama: Uses millions of tax dollars for personal vacations. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-vacation-taxpayer-cost/2012/07/19/id/445913
 
Obama: Assassinates two American citizens, one being only sixteen years old, without any due process. http://www.salon.com/2011/10/20/the_killing_of_awlakis_16_year_old_son/
 
 
Obama: Calls for the arrest of alleged whistle-blower PFC Bradley Manning for allegedly leaking video footage of American soldiers killing Iraqi civilians ruthlessly and illegally. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/17/pro-bradley-manning-protesters-occupy-obama-campaigns-oakland-headquarters/
 
Obama: Allows for the torture of aforementioned Bradley Manning for eighteen months at Quantico before he's even charged with a crime. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/10/bradley-manning-legal-scholars-letter
 
Obama: Calls for excessive Pell grants, which inflate the price of college tuition for everyone. http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2012/06/25/pell-grants-contribution/
 
 
 
Obama supporters: Why would anyone NOT vote for Obama?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #44 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Obama: Sends drone strikes throughout Yemen, killing innocent civilians. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/opinion/bergen-yemen-drone-war/index.html
 
 
 
Obama: Sends drone strikes throughout Afghanistan, killing innocent civilians. http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/soft-on-terror-president-gently-assassinates-14
 
 
Obama: Puts crippling trade sanctions on Iran to provoke another war, similar to events leading up to Pearl Harbor. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19069793
 
Obama: Signs NDAA, which allows for the indefinite detainment of US citizens outside of a warzone, without a trial or even being charged with a crime. http://rt.com/usa/news/ndaa-judge-obama-forrest-295/
 
Obama: Appoints czars to bypass Congress and extend the powers of the executive branch even more than Bush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars
 
Obama: Uses millions of tax dollars for personal vacations. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obama-vacation-taxpayer-cost/2012/07/19/id/445913
 
Obama: Assassinates two American citizens, one being only sixteen years old, without any due process. http://www.salon.com/2011/10/20/the_killing_of_awlakis_16_year_old_son/
 
 
Obama: Calls for the arrest of alleged whistle-blower PFC Bradley Manning for allegedly leaking video footage of American soldiers killing Iraqi civilians ruthlessly and illegally. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/17/pro-bradley-manning-protesters-occupy-obama-campaigns-oakland-headquarters/
 
Obama: Allows for the torture of aforementioned Bradley Manning for eighteen months at Quantico before he's even charged with a crime. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/10/bradley-manning-legal-scholars-letter
 
Obama: Calls for excessive Pell grants, which inflate the price of college tuition for everyone. http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2012/06/25/pell-grants-contribution/
 
 
 
Obama supporters: Why would anyone NOT vote for Obama?

 

The problem is that cherry picking doesn't make the case or prove anything. Anyone with 30 minutes to spare and so inclined could assemble a similarly random list of accusations (and some of those are clearly distortions in any case) about any US President. Or is that the point you are making, in which case nicely done.

post #45 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

The problem is that cherry picking doesn't make the case or prove anything. Anyone with 30 minutes to spare and so inclined could assemble a similarly random list of accusations (and some of those are clearly distortions in any case) about any US President. Or is that the point you are making, in which case nicely done.

 

I'll let you conclude what you will.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #46 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

The problem is that cherry picking doesn't make the case or prove anything. Anyone with 30 minutes to spare and so inclined could assemble a similarly random list of accusations (and some of those are clearly distortions in any case) about any US President. Or is that the point you are making, in which case nicely done.

 

I'll let you conclude what you will.

 

Well, based on your previous posts that I've seen, I guess the latter, so apologies for being slow.

post #47 of 95

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #48 of 95

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #49 of 95

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #50 of 95

I guess that "job growth slowing to a 'snail's pace'" is because we're "turning a corner." lol.gif

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post #51 of 95

Why does Obama need 4 more years to implement the same plan he promised to implement 4 years ago?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #52 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Why does Obama need 4 more years to implement the same plan he promised to implement 4 years ago?

 

Here's the thing. I think Obama did implement the plan he intended to implement. It just didn't have the results he expected (and promised.) This is not surprising at all. It was actually highly predictable. The typical Keynesian response to this economic issue in 2007/2008 was almost guaranteed to not fix things. It would probably make them worse (which it has in some ways) or...at best...sorta help things limp along (which is what's happening), kicking the can down the road (hopefully past the next election cycle.) But it wasn't going to fix anything. No way, no how, not ever. I mean this is exactly what Hoover and FDR did and it kept stretching out the misery turning the great crash into a lengthy depression. Geez.

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post #53 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Curious that the PR is trending down like that - what do you conclude from that? It's never seemed like a very useful measure to me. UR seems like a simpler and better indicator.

 

 

post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Curious that the PR is trending down like that - what do you conclude from that? It's never seemed like a very useful measure to me. UR seems like a simpler and better indicator.

 

 

I actually think the PR rate is more useful than the UR for the simple fact that the UR has been tweaked and tuned and often ignores some actual unemployment. In fact I've read that if UR was calculated the same way it was during the Great Depression it would be reporting closer to 15-17% right now. That's not to say that method was better...but it illustrates the difficulty in comparing time periods (when the method of calculating the number has changed so much) and also illustrates how the statistic could be manipulated (either way) to be worse or better.

 

I like the PR a bit more because it's a little more straightforward: Here's the working age people who are working vs. not working. Now the reasons for not working might not all be because of involuntary unemployment but I think it's probably a pretty decent proxy.

 

Here's a different chart (only going back to 2002) from BLS:

 

 

That's a pretty wicked downward trend since 1/2009.

 

Either way, neither number looks very good right now.

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post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Curious that the PR is trending down like that - what do you conclude from that? It's never seemed like a very useful measure to me. UR seems like a simpler and better indicator.

 

 

I actually think the PR rate is more useful than the UR for the simple fact that the UR has been tweaked and tuned and often ignores some actual unemployment. In fact I've read that if UR was calculated the same way it was during the Great Depression it would be reporting closer to 15-17% right now. That's not to say that method was better...but it illustrates the difficulty in comparing time periods (when the method of calculating the number has changed so much) and also illustrates how the statistic could be manipulated (either way) to be worse or better.

 

I like the PR a bit more because it's a little more straightforward: Here's the working age people who are working vs. not working. Now the reasons for not working might not all be because of involuntary unemployment but I think it's probably a pretty decent proxy.

 

 

I think perhaps you have misunderstood the derivation of the participation rate. It's not the ratio of employed to labor pool, it's the ratio of employed plus unemployed to labor pool.

post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I think perhaps you have misunderstood the derivation of the participation rate. It's not the ratio of employed to labor pool, it's the ratio of employed plus unemployed to labor pool.

 

Then, depending on how unemployed are counted in that figure, perhaps it's subject to the same problems as the UR.

 

According to Investopedia:

 

Quote:
The participation rate refers to the number of people who are either employed or are actively looking for work. The number of people who are no longer actively searching for work would not be included in the participation rate.

 

Quote:
The participation rate is an important metric to note when looking at unemployment data because unemployment figures reflect the number of people who are looking for jobs but are unable to secure employment. 
 
The participation rate is important in analyzing the unemployment rate. Those who have no interest in working are not included in the participation rate but are included in the unemployment rate. An aging population can have both a positive and negative effect on the participation rate, through retirement and new people entering the workforce. The participation rate and unemployment data should be observed in tandem to give a better understanding of the overall employment status.

 

The primary difference appears to be about those who have dropped out of actively looking but would still be considered productive, employable individuals in the population.


Edited by MJ1970 - 9/7/12 at 8:30am

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post #57 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I think perhaps you have misunderstood the derivation of the participation rate. It's not the ratio of employed to labor pool, it's the ratio of employed plus unemployed to labor pool.

 

Then, depending on how unemployed are counted in that figure, perhaps it's subject to the same problems as the UR.

 

According to Investopedia:

 

Quote:
The participation rate refers to the number of people who are either employed or are actively looking for work. The number of people who are no longer actively searching for work would not be included in the participation rate.

 

Quote:
The participation rate is an important metric to note when looking at unemployment data because unemployment figures reflect the number of people who are looking for jobs but are unable to secure employment. 
 
The participation rate is important in analyzing the unemployment rate. Those who have no interest in working are not included in the participation rate but are included in the unemployment rate. An aging population can have both a positive and negative effect on the participation rate, through retirement and new people entering the workforce. The participation rate and unemployment data should be observed in tandem to give a better understanding of the overall employment status.

 

 

I think they are both subject to manipulation, as are any statistics. My point was that I really don't understand why (E + U)/Lpop is a useful short term economic metric, because, with E + U in the numerator, it says nothing about how many people are unemployed. It's measuring how many people are working or looking for work. Its only value is as a long-term socio-economic indicator of the maximum potential workforce.

 

E - number of employed

U - number actively looking for work

Lpop - non-institutionalized population 15 - 64

post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

I think they are both subject to manipulation, as are any statistics. My point was that I really don't understand why (E + U)/Lpop is a useful short term economic metric, because, with E + U in the numerator, it says nothing about how many people are unemployed. It's measuring how many people are working or looking for work. Its only value is as a long-term socio-economic indicator of the maximum potential workforce.

 

E - number of employed

U - number actively looking for work

Lpop - non-institutionalized population 15 - 64

 

Fair point.

 

But there's nothing that we're seeing here that is really looking good in employment numbers.

 

Here's one that has three charts: http://www.shadowstats.com/charts/employment/unemployment/labor-force-and-population-ratios

 

The "Employment-population ratio.  This represents the proportion of the population that is employed." chart is probably what you're looking for. It doesn't look good either.

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post #59 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

I think they are both subject to manipulation, as are any statistics. My point was that I really don't understand why (E + U)/Lpop is a useful short term economic metric, because, with E + U in the numerator, it says nothing about how many people are unemployed. It's measuring how many people are working or looking for work. Its only value is as a long-term socio-economic indicator of the maximum potential workforce.

 

E - number of employed

U - number actively looking for work

Lpop - non-institutionalized population 15 - 64

 

Fair point.

 

But there's nothing that we're seeing here that is really looking good in employment numbers.

 

Here's one that has three charts: http://www.shadowstats.com/charts/employment/unemployment/labor-force-and-population-ratios

 

The "Employment-population ratio.  This represents the proportion of the population that is employed." chart is probably what you're looking for. It doesn't look good either.

 

Agreed - I wasn't trying to argue that the numbers are great, just that your metric might not be the right one. Having said that, if you look at the Urate chart there is pretty good correlation of the rate with recessions, and at this point the rate is starting to come down again fairly well in line with previous similar events. Too early to judge success yet, but I'm not sure that it is especially damning either.

post #60 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Having said that, if you look at the Urate chart there is pretty good correlation of the rate with recessions, and at this point the rate is starting to come down again fairly well in line with previous similar events. Too early to judge success yet, but I'm not sure that it is especially damning either.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. But for a guy who came out and claimed that UR would be around 5.5% at this time (and never even rise above 8%) after all of his Keynesian shenanigans. I'd say he has some 'splainin' to do.

 

If I were Romney, I'd be showing this chart all the time:

 

 

He'll keep up with blaming Bush though I'm sure. It's kind of become his trademark. And it may even work for him. It has so far.


Edited by MJ1970 - 9/7/12 at 9:48am

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post #61 of 95
Thread Starter 

A reminder of how the thread started:

 

 

Obama's "Accomplishments"... in no specific order

 

* Signed the National Defense Authorization Act – authorizing indefinite detention of U.S. citizens - which he said he would veto unless the 'indefinite detention clauses", 1021-1022 were retained

* Lied to the people regarding the future status of Guantanamo Bay

* Expanded executive authority to include assassination of U.S. citizens

* Waged war on Libya without congressional approval

* Started and continues covert drone wars in Yemen, Djibouti, Somalia, and Iran

* Escalating the proxy war in Somalia

Escalating the CIA drone war in Pakistan

Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Syria

* Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Libya

* Supporting and enabling a State Dept. listed terrorist group - the Mojahedin e Khalq - in its activities in Iran

Substantially expanding the persecution of medical marijuana providers that operate in compliance with state laws

Ordering vicious FDA entrapments and prosecutions of raw milk and other natural food providers

Metastasizing of TSA goons, thieves, and perverts to bus stations, rail stations, and newly-constructed illegal highway checkpoints

* Presiding over a health reform program that was underwritten by the industry middlemen, to benefit the industry middlemen

* Signed legislation that authorizes use of drones within the United States, against U.S. citizens

* Expanding the enormous, brutal, and covert mercenary U.S. occupation of Iraq while claiming he is ending the war

* Escalating the war / occupation in Afghanistan

* Increasing domestic use of secret evidence and secret courts (FISA – Foreign Intelligence Security Act)

* Secretly deploying US Special Forces to dozens of countries

* Signed the USA Patriot Act extension into law

* Approved the Justice Department prosecution of environmental and animal rights groups as "domestic terrorists" under the USA PATRIOT Act, using secret investigations

* Expanded the Bush warrantless wire tap program, and gave immunity to telecom companies that collaborated

Expanding the use of secret National Security letters for domestic investigations by FBI and CIA

Continuing Bush's extraordinary rendition program (kidnapping and torture outside the U.S.) 

Continuing Bush administration's use of "State Secrets" defense to prevent domestic war crimes prosecutions

Substantially expanding the persecution of domestic whistleblowers

* Signing into law the power to outlaw any protest against Secret Service Protected individuals, or near federal buildings

* Expanded the previous administration's appeasement and protection of serial criminality within the financial sector, and doling out $Trillions in taxpayer funded largesse to those who were largely responsible for the 2008-2009 crash...

 

Obama has tried to "outBush Bush" - and largely succeeded, in only 4 years. Republicans and 'authoritarian' type conservatives (as opposed to libertarian type conservatives) should *love* this guy.

 

The problem is - Obama is (half) black and wears the "democratic" label.. and he has stepped on the right wing's beloved turf. 

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #62 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Obama's "Accomplishments"... in no specific order

 

* Signed the National Defense Authorization Act – authorizing indefinite detention of U.S. citizens - which he said he would veto unless the 'indefinite detention clauses", 1021-1022 were retained

* Lied to the people regarding the future status of Guantanamo Bay

* Expanded executive authority to include assassination of U.S. citizens

* Waged war on Libya without congressional approval

* Started and continues covert drone wars in Yemen, Djibouti, Somalia, and Iran

* Escalating the proxy war in Somalia

Escalating the CIA drone war in Pakistan

Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Syria

* Supporting and enabling Al-Qaeda and other terror organizations and mercenary gangs slaughtering civilians in Libya

* Supporting and enabling a State Dept. listed terrorist group - the Mojahedin e Khalq - in its activities in Iran

Substantially expanding the persecution of medical marijuana providers that operate in compliance with state laws

Ordering vicious FDA entrapments and prosecutions of raw milk and other natural food providers

Metastasizing of TSA goons, thieves, and perverts to bus stations, rail stations, and newly-constructed illegal highway checkpoints

* Presiding over a health reform program that was underwritten by the industry middlemen, to benefit the industry middlemen

* Signed legislation that authorizes use of drones within the United States, against U.S. citizens

* Expanding the enormous, brutal, and covert mercenary U.S. occupation of Iraq while claiming he is ending the war

* Escalating the war / occupation in Afghanistan

* Increasing domestic use of secret evidence and secret courts (FISA – Foreign Intelligence Security Act)

* Secretly deploying US Special Forces to dozens of countries

* Signed the USA Patriot Act extension into law

* Approved the Justice Department prosecution of environmental and animal rights groups as "domestic terrorists" under the USA PATRIOT Act, using secret investigations

* Expanded the Bush warrantless wire tap program, and gave immunity to telecom companies that collaborated

Expanding the use of secret National Security letters for domestic investigations by FBI and CIA

Continuing Bush's extraordinary rendition program (kidnapping and torture outside the U.S.) 

Continuing Bush administration's use of "State Secrets" defense to prevent domestic war crimes prosecutions

Substantially expanding the persecution of domestic whistleblowers

* Signing into law the power to outlaw any protest against Secret Service Protected individuals, or near federal buildings

* Expanded the previous administration's appeasement and protection of serial criminality within the financial sector, and doling out $Trillions in taxpayer funded largesse to those who were largely responsible for the 2008-2009 crash...

 

Yep. He's a prince alright.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Obama has tried to "outBush Bush" - and largely succeeded, in only 4 years. Republicans and 'authoritarian' type conservatives (as opposed to libertarian type conservatives) should *love* this guy.

 

Indeed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

The problem is - Obama is (half) black and wears the "democratic" label.. and he has stepped on the right wing's beloved turf. 

 

I suspect it is more about the latter than the former.

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post #63 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Having said that, if you look at the Urate chart there is pretty good correlation of the rate with recessions, and at this point the rate is starting to come down again fairly well in line with previous similar events. Too early to judge success yet, but I'm not sure that it is especially damning either.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. But for a guy who came out and claimed that UR would be around 5.5% at this time (and never even rise above 8%) after all of his Keynesian shenanigans. I'd say he has some 'splainin' to do.

 

If I were Romney, I'd be showing this chart all the time:

 

 

He'll keep up with blaming Bush though I'm sure. It's kind of become his trademark. And it may even work for him. It has so far.

 

As for the Keynesian stuff - right or wrong there was substantial international consensus on that approach. Monetarism took a back seat, and Bush's bailouts were Keynesian too. And there are added complexities; the lack of cross-party collaboration over the past few years has impeded many economic initiatives. So yes - his goals have definitely not been met, and that graph is something that you would expect his opponents could get good mileage from. On the other hand, as I pointed out earlier, the unemployment rate does seem to be following the same recovery pattern as after previous recessions. Whether the active stimulus measures are, in any way, responsible, or whether the economy is simply robust enough to achieve that by its own (un-Keynesian) tendency to equilibriate is hard to say.

post #64 of 95

Nice comment posted over at HuffPo-

 

 

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
williamg
Obamacare = law of the land...forever
27 seconds ago ( 1:57 PM)

The Last year under Bush

• Feb...... -136,000 (lost)
• Mar...... -112,000 (lost)
• Apr..... -215,000 (lost)
• May.... ­216,000 (lost)
• Jun.... -231,000 (lost)
• Jul...... -259,000 (lost)
• Aug.... -294,000 (lost)
• Sep.... -425,000 (lost)
• Oct..... -480,000 (lost)
• Nov..... -658,000 (lost)
• Dec.... -839,000 (lost)
• Jan..... -820,000 (lost)
.

Last year under Obama

• Aug....+52,000 (gained)
• Sep....+216,000 (gained)
• Oct.....+139,000 (gained)
• Nov....+178,000 (gained)
• Dec...+234,000 (gained)
• Jan...+277,000 (gained)
• Feb....+254,000 (gained)
• Mar....+147,000 (gained)
• Apr.....+85,000 (gained)
• May....+116,000 (gained)
• Jun.....+63,000 (gained)
• Jul ...+162,000 (gained)
• Aug ...+103,000 (gained)"

 

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #65 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

As for the Keynesian stuff - right or wrong there was substantial international consensus on that approach.

 

I understand that. Unfortunately consensus cannot make something right or make it work.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

...and Bush's bailouts were Keynesian too.

 

I know.

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post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nice comment posted over at HuffPo-

 

 

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
williamg
Obamacare = law of the land...forever
27 seconds ago ( 1:57 PM)

The Last year under Bush

• Feb...... -136,000 (lost)
• Mar...... -112,000 (lost)
• Apr..... -215,000 (lost)
• May.... ­216,000 (lost)
• Jun.... -231,000 (lost)
• Jul...... -259,000 (lost)
• Aug.... -294,000 (lost)
• Sep.... -425,000 (lost)
• Oct..... -480,000 (lost)
• Nov..... -658,000 (lost)
• Dec.... -839,000 (lost)
• Jan..... -820,000 (lost)
.

Last year under Obama

• Aug....+52,000 (gained)
• Sep....+216,000 (gained)
• Oct.....+139,000 (gained)
• Nov....+178,000 (gained)
• Dec...+234,000 (gained)
• Jan...+277,000 (gained)
• Feb....+254,000 (gained)
• Mar....+147,000 (gained)
• Apr.....+85,000 (gained)
• May....+116,000 (gained)
• Jun.....+63,000 (gained)
• Jul ...+162,000 (gained)
• Aug ...+103,000 (gained)"

 

Unfortunately for you and your boss this is not about comparing the last years of these two presidents. It is about what is, what could be, what could have been, what was promised, what has happened on Obama's watch, and what policies will work for the next 4 years. The time for blaming Bush is over. The time for explaining why Obama's policies have not enabled more people to be back working is at hand.

 

I suspect that this painful and destructive national experiment with "historical" president's who have no real applicable experience and simply give good speech may be over also.


Edited by MJ1970 - 9/7/12 at 12:13pm

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post #67 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Unfortunately for you and your boss this is not about comparing the last years of these two presidents. It is about what is, what could be, what could have been, what was promised, what has happened on Obama's watch, and what policies will work for the next 4 years. The time for blaming Bush is over. The time for explaining why Obama's policies have not enabled more people to be back working is at hand.

 

I suspect that this painful and destructive national experiment with "historical" president's who have no real applicable experience and simply give good speech may be over also.

Obama is much more your boss than mine. You live in America, I don't. You've also spent your life there (as far as I know), helping to create the environment where a leader like Obama can become elected. You may not have intended to, but it's the fight back, the yin yang, that got him there. If there was no injustice in the US I don't think Obama would have run for POTUS. 

 

Ever since Obama got elected he's been moving job growth in the right direction. If he'd have had his way more often we'd be seeing even higher job growth. The Dems need to win back congress to have the biggest impact. Trickle down is for greedy idiots. Obama understands that wealth needs to reach the average person to create jobs, he knows that a good education system creates jobs, that affordable healthcare helps creates jobs and he knows that decreasing taxes on over 90% of the population and increasing them on the top 5% is the best way to create jobs and pay down the debt. 

 

Obama versus Romney? Romney loses, big time.

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post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nice comment posted over at HuffPo-

 

 

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
williamg
Obamacare = law of the land...forever
27 seconds ago ( 1:57 PM)

The Last year under Bush

• Feb...... -136,000 (lost)
• Mar...... -112,000 (lost)
• Apr..... -215,000 (lost)
• May.... ­216,000 (lost)
• Jun.... -231,000 (lost)
• Jul...... -259,000 (lost)
• Aug.... -294,000 (lost)
• Sep.... -425,000 (lost)
• Oct..... -480,000 (lost)
• Nov..... -658,000 (lost)
• Dec.... -839,000 (lost)
• Jan..... -820,000 (lost)
.

Last year under Obama

• Aug....+52,000 (gained)
• Sep....+216,000 (gained)
• Oct.....+139,000 (gained)
• Nov....+178,000 (gained)
• Dec...+234,000 (gained)
• Jan...+277,000 (gained)
• Feb....+254,000 (gained)
• Mar....+147,000 (gained)
• Apr.....+85,000 (gained)
• May....+116,000 (gained)
• Jun.....+63,000 (gained)
• Jul ...+162,000 (gained)
• Aug ...+103,000 (gained)"

 

 

That's not really a fair comparison though, without noting that in President Bush's last year he was facing a deepening recession, whereas now President Obama has an economy that is (slowly) recovering.

post #69 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Obama is much more your boss than mine.

 

He ain't my boss. But I thought you were working for him. Sorry. Honest mistake.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You live in America, I don't.

 

Don't remind me. :-(

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You've also spent your life there (as far as I know), helping to create the environment where a leader like Obama can become elected.

 

That's an interesting claim.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If there was no injustice in the US I don't think Obama would have run for POTUS.

 

lol.gif Yes! That's it! Obama ran for POTUS to correct all of the injustices in this country. Which explains why he seems to have increased them. Oops.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Ever since Obama got elected he's been moving job growth in the right direction.

 

That's simply not true.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If he'd have had his way more often we'd be seeing even higher job growth. The Dems need to win back congress to have the biggest impact. Trickle down is for greedy idiots. Obama understands that wealth needs to reach the average person to create jobs, he knows that a good education system creates jobs, that affordable healthcare helps creates jobs and he knows that decreasing taxes on over 90% of the population and increasing them on the top 5% is the best way to create jobs and pay down the debt. 

 

Obama versus Romney? Romney loses, big time.

 

And you say you're not working for Obama. lol.gif

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post #70 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

That's not really a fair comparison though, without noting that in President Bush's last year he was facing a deepening recession, whereas now President Obama has an economy that is (slowly) recovering.

There are still many factors at play regarding job growth. Bush isn't worth talking about in relations to jobs. His policies should only be used as an example of how not to do things.

 

Here's an interesting article from the New York Times, showing some of the influencing factors at play here-

 

 

"Without this hidden austerity program, the economy would look very different. If state and local governments had followed the pattern of the previous two recessions, they would have added 1.4 million to 1.9 million jobs and overall unemployment would be 7.0 to 7.3 percent instead of 8.2 percent."

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/americas-hidden-austerity-program/

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post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There are still many factors at play regarding job growth. Bush isn't worth talking about in relations to jobs. His policies should only be used as an example of how not to do things.

 

Here's an interesting article from the New York Times, showing some of the influencing factors at play here-

 

 

"Without this hidden austerity program, the economy would look very different. If state and local governments had followed the pattern of the previous two recessions, they would have added 1.4 million to 1.9 million jobs and overall unemployment would be 7.0 to 7.3 percent instead of 8.2 percent."

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/americas-hidden-austerity-program/

 

Strange, I thought Bush did the first round of stimulus/bailouts, which Obama then continued and expanded upon.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #72 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

He ain't my boss. But I thought you were working for him. Sorry. Honest mistake.

 

 

 

Don't remind me. :-(

 

 

 

That's an interesting claim.

 

 

 

lol.gif Yes! That's it! Obama ran for POTUS to correct all of the injustices in this country. Which explains why he seems to have increased them. Oops.

 

 

 

That's simply not true.

 

 

 

And you say you're not working for Obama. lol.gif

Honduras are planning a city using a lot of private capital, making it's own laws, including it's tax rates. It's being done under a right wing president. You should check it out. It might be right up your street-

 

"Honduras is set to host one of the world's most radical neo-liberal economic experiments under a plan to build from scratch the rules, roads and rafters of a "charter city" for foreign investors.

The Central American nation hopes the plan for model development zones, which will have their own laws, tax system, judiciary and police, will emulate the economic success of city states such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

The Honduran president, Porfirio Lobo – a landowner from the rightwing National party – has given his full backing to the plan, which was inspired by US economic advisers.

 

It is the realisation of a proposal for "charter cities" proposed by the US economist Paul Romer, a graduate of the University of Chicago school of economics, who is currently professor at the Stern School of Business atNew York University.

Citing Hong Kong as an example, Romer argues that cities based on a "charter" of strong, pro-business laws and institutions are the key to rapid growth, particularly when they can act as international gateways to larger regions such as China. In countries that lack such fundamentals at a state level, he proposes the creation of special zones where they can be established from nothing."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/honduras-new-city-laws-investors

In regards to job growth Obama first of all consistently reduced the number of jobs being lost each month to then consistently adding jobs. He's had congress block some of his progress and like I posted from the NYTimes local government austerity is also hitting jobs hard. Just like it's done in the UK btw.


Edited by Hands Sandon - 9/7/12 at 12:59pm
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post #73 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Strange, I thought Bush did the first round of stimulus/bailouts, which Obama then continued and expanded upon.

There have been a lot of cuts at the local level despite that.

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post #74 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

There have been a lot of cuts at the local level despite that.

 

Because only the federal government can just print all of the money it wants or needs. Local governments are bound by reality.

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post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Honduras are planning a city using a lot of private capital, making it's own laws, including it's tax rates. It's being done under a right wing president. You should check it out. It might be right up your street-

 

"Honduras is set to host one of the world's most radical neo-liberal economic experiments under a plan to build from scratch the rules, roads and rafters of a "charter city" for foreign investors.

The Central American nation hopes the plan for model development zones, which will have their own laws, tax system, judiciary and police, will emulate the economic success of city states such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

The Honduran president, Porfirio Lobo – a landowner from the rightwing National party – has given his full backing to the plan, which was inspired by US economic advisers.

 

Sounds interesting. I'll read more about it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

In regards to job growth Obama first of all consistently reduced the number of jobs being lost each month to then consistently adding jobs.

 

Not true.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

He's had congress block some of his progress...

 

So like you're boss, all the credit for the good stuff goes to him while blame for the bad stuff goes to someone else. Nice work if you can get it.

 

P.S. I find any claim of any "austerity measures" in the US to be laughable if not downright dishonest and a clear disconnection from reality.


Edited by MJ1970 - 9/7/12 at 1:11pm

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post #76 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Sounds interesting. I'll read more about it.

 

 

Not true.

 

 

 

So like you're boss, all the credit for the good stuff goes to him while blame for the bad stuff goes to someone else. Nice work if you can get it.

 

P.S. I find any claim of any "austerity measures" in the US to be laughable if not downright dishonest and a clear disconnection from reality.

I agree with you about the austerity to a degree. A lot of cutbacks have happened, even when borrowing has been high. What they need to do is focus on tax cuts for the average man and dramatically cut defence and DHS spending. It doesn't make any economical sense either, to cut money to those most in need. 

 

What I said about jobs is fact. That's how it's been. Look it up if you don't believe me. Here's the graph-

 

Private-sector-job-creation-December-2009-to-January-2012.png

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post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I agree with you about the austerity to a degree. A lot of cutbacks have happened, even when borrowing has been high. What they need to do is focus on tax cuts for the average man and dramatically cut defence and DHS spending. It doesn't make any economical sense either, to cut money to those most in need. 

 

What I said about jobs is fact. That's how it's been. Look it up if you don't believe me. Here's the graph-

 

Private-sector-job-creation-December-2009-to-January-2012.png

 

Your chart supports what I said.

 

Geez.

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post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Your chart supports what I said.

 

Geez.

Here's what I said-

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands SandonView Post

In regards to job growth Obama first of all consistently reduced the number of jobs being lost each month to then consistently adding jobs.

You then said-

 

Originally Posted by MJ1970

 

"Not true."

 

 

 

The graph shows exactly what I said.

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post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Here's what I said-

 

 

 

 

The graph shows exactly what I said.

 

First, there's no consistency to it at all.

 

Second, the first claim you made:

 

 

 

Quote:
Ever since Obama got elected he's been moving job growth in the right direction.

 

Is also wrong.

 

Finally, I'd be reticent about giving Obama credit for moving anything. Obama doesn't create jobs. I'd venture to say he hasn't created a single job his whole life.

 

Whether his policies created the conditions for job creation is a matter of big debate.

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post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

First, there's no consistency to it at all.

 

Second, the first claim you made:

 

 

 

 

Is also wrong.

 

Finally, I'd be reticent about giving Obama credit for moving anything. Obama doesn't create jobs. I'd venture to say he hasn't created a single job his whole life.

 

Whether his policies created the conditions for job creation is a matter of big debate.

 

 

Indeed.  And even if we credit Obama for "turning around" job growth, the results are poor.  Current job growth does not even keep up with population growth.  Reducing unemployment without counting those who drop out of the workforce requires about 150,000 jobs per month...consistently (cough).   Real unemployment is actually stagnant, if not getting worse. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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