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Sharp announces it will ship screens for Apple's next iPhone this month - Page 2

post #41 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

So much for "Doubling Down on Secrecy".

LOL-everybody knows a new iPhone is coming out soon. But how about the other products they're keeping secret?
post #42 of 87
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

The people in Korea look at Samsung as an asset to generate pride, not profit.

 

South Koreans take pride in celebrating that they're wholly unable to come up with their own ideas and so just steal wholesale from Americans?

 

The only way they could end their contract with Apple is if they choose not to renew. If they cut it off prematurely, they'll be fined tens of billions of dollars at minimum, and then Apple would probably go to someone else anyway, just to hurt them more.

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post #43 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


It always amazes me how fast Apple can ramp up production but it may be shown with limited availability and announced to ship in quantity soon thus giving some extra time.

Cash up front.  

post #44 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

South Koreans take pride in celebrating that they're wholly unable to come up with their own ideas and so just steal wholesale from Americans?

 

 

Again you just don't understand Koreans.

 

These people, especially the highly educated ones, are ultra-competitive, meaning, they'd do whatever to beat their opponents (yes even immorale or botherline illegal). They take pride in winning, not 'playing by the rules' and lose. You probably don't agree with this, but a lot of people do, in fact, if you look at the the CEOs of the top 100 companies in US, honestly do they always play by the rules? Of course not! 99 of them will have done major 'rule-breaking' stuffs in the course of their lives. Let's not be naive here.

post #45 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The only way they could end their contract with Apple is if they choose not to renew. If they cut it off prematurely, they'll be fined tens of billions of dollars at minimum, and then Apple would probably go to someone else anyway, just to hurt them more.

 

False. Every proper contract has an exit clause and terms for either party. Who knows what it is, but it's probably expensive. 

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post #46 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

South Koreans take pride in celebrating that they're wholly unable to come up with their own ideas and so just steal wholesale from Americans?

 

The only way they could end their contract with Apple is if they choose not to renew. If they cut it off prematurely, they'll be fined tens of billions of dollars at minimum, and then Apple would probably go to someone else anyway, just to hurt them more.

 

uhhh, you talking about the same Samsung that is granted about EIGHT times as many patents as Apple PER YEAR? That Samsung?

 

The one that spent millions of dollars on R&D to create the backbone of how phones operate and communicate with each other? Those standards didn't create themselves. 

 

Not Samsung's fault they didn't invent the rectangle, they were maybe too busy on their other 4000 patents to bother about inventing the rectangle, something NEVER SEEN BEFORE. lol.gif

post #47 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Not Samsung's fault they didn't invent the rectangle, they were maybe too busy on their other 4000 patents to bother about inventing the rectangle, something NEVER SEEN BEFORE. lol.gif

 

 

Well, maybe Samsung should spend a little less time developing the backbone elements of modern communication infrastructure and a little more time patenting the obvious.

 

Just a suggestion.

post #48 of 87
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post
uhhh, you talking about the same Samsung that is granted about EIGHT times as many patents as Apple PER YEAR? That Samsung?

 

What the frick does 'number of patents' have to do with anything here? I don't care if you own all possible patents on all possible objects for all possible uses. You have to actually do something with them.

 

And yet Samsung sees fit to take from Apple.

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post #49 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

What the frick does 'number of patents' have to do with anything here? I don't care if you own all possible patents on all possible objects for all possible uses. You have to actually do something with them.

 

And yet Samsung sees fit to take from Apple.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/02/samsung-starts-mass-producing-4x-faster-mobile-flash-memory/

 

I suppose that Samsung took this from Apple?

post #50 of 87
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/02/samsung-starts-mass-producing-4x-faster-mobile-flash-memory/

 

I suppose that Samsung took this from Apple?


The argument here is not about individual components. Don't get sidetracked.

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post #51 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


The argument here is not about individual components. Don't get sidetracked.

 

Very true, but when Tim gets on stage next year announcing magic that the new new iPad is 4x as fast, you can bet big money he won't be thanking Samsung for the tech.

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post #52 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

uhhh, you talking about the same Samsung that is granted about EIGHT times as many patents as Apple PER YEAR? That Samsung?

The one that spent millions of dollars on R&D to create the backbone of how phones operate and communicate with each other? Those standards didn't create themselves. 

Not Samsung's fault they didn't invent the rectangle, they were maybe too busy on their other 4000 patents to bother about inventing the rectangle, something NEVER SEEN BEFORE. lol.gif

Why do people such as your good self keep repeating a silly thing like that as if it will make it true! This inventing the rectangle is just fud piled on fud.

If Kia produced an identical looking car to a particular BMW model and BMW sued, those of the same mentality would start crying about four wheels on a box not being anything that can be patented and Kia were not doing anything wrong.

The awful designs for tablets and phones Samnsung and others had pre iPhone and iPad were also rectangles and no one is saying they are ripping off Apple's designs with those horrors.
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post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

What the frick does 'number of patents' have to do with anything here? I don't care if you own all possible patents on all possible objects for all possible uses. You have to actually do something with them.

 

And yet Samsung sees fit to take from Apple.

 

WAAHHHHHH WAAAHHHH

you mad bro?lol.gif

 

Whether you do something withem or not...its still innovation. And oh yeah, have you used any 3g today? Dumb question, you have an iphone (as usual Apple is years behind in tech so no 4G till decades later), well then yeah, you are using some good old Samsung innovation, which by the way, Apple has not paid for, they just stole. So yeah, your whole argument about Samsung not innovating is kinda weak. 

 

Not their fault they couldn't figure out the rectanglelol.gif I just types that in to see you get mad again. 

post #54 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelegg View Post

Sharp's President, speaking about his company's last contract ever with Apple, said that they'd start shipping.....

It's unlikely that he violated any contractual clause when he stated this. There is always someone who assumes the CEO is a moron and doesn't recognize what can be stated in public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This seems very odd in many ways. I can't expect that shipping a component only this month would lead to quantities ready for sale next month. I can't imagine that Apple would allow Sharp to speak of this. Some might say Apple can't do anything about it but believe me when I say they have contracts that protect them from executives talking.
Did the original comment specifically state it was the iPhone or was that an assumption? If Sharp wants their IGZO displays to gain traction and their quality is less than displays Apple currently uses then this might be perfect for a small, cheap tablet.

There are many possible explanations, although I don't really care to speculate. The main thing was regarding quality, it's not a one dimensional issue. They may have been very specific concerns regarding manufacturing tolerance/yields. The hardware may have possessed an undesirable color temperature in its white values requiring some amount of emulation for the desired effect but cutting yields due to the number that can actually hit the desired specs without banding issues. I'm making up hypothetical problems. The point is that even if the outcome is presented as simple boolean logic, the underlying factors may have far greater complexity. Displays are a strange issue anyway. It's not totally possible to describe color accuracy without some kind of reference model and a set of theoretically perfect values. Given the limited number of values that can be addressed, it has to be balanced around something rather than all that someone with (theoretically) perfect vision can see.

post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Why do people such as your good self keep repeating a silly thing like that as if it will make it true! This inventing the rectangle is just fud piled on fud.
If Kia produced an identical looking car to a particular BMW model and BMW sued, those of the same mentality would start crying about four wheels on a box not being anything that can be patented and Kia were not doing anything wrong.
The awful designs for tablets and phones Samnsung and others had pre iPhone and iPad were also rectangles and no one is saying they are ripping off Apple's designs with those horrors.

 

Oh sorry, i meant rectangles with rounded edges. 

 

Just rectangles would be ridiculous, lol. Those rounded edges however, now THATS innovation. 

post #56 of 87
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post
you mad bro?lol.gif

 

Whether you do something withem or not...its still innovation. And oh yeah, have you used any 3g today? Dumb question, you have an iphone (as usual Apple is years behind in tech so no 4G till decades later), well then yeah, you are using some good old Samsung innovation, which by the way, Apple has not paid for, they just stole. So yeah, your whole argument about Samsung not innovating is kinda weak. 

 

Not their fault they couldn't figure out the rectanglelol.gif I just types that in to see you get mad again. 

 

Would someone please let me know when this thing gets back to something even remotely resembling a coherent, intelligent argument?

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post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Would someone please let me know when this thing gets back to something even remotely resembling a coherent, intelligent argument?

ooohhh, good way to run away. 

 

Bring up the patents you say it doesn't matter,

bring up the Samsung innovation as shown by their memory technology, you say its not a whole device so it doesn't matter

Bring up the fact that the iphone is dependent on Samsung innovation, you say it doesn't matter. 

 

Hmmm, i'll play your game by your rules. 

 

Samsung sucks, all they do is copy, Apple rules, they invented everything. Samsung never invented anything. Go Apple. 

 

See, we are on the same side now, where's my turtle neck?

post #58 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

When you're the largest component consumer in the world, you have few options for large scale fabs.   They are moving that way, but even if you do, you need someone the size of Samsung to take over key fabs (CPU).   Ideally, you want a BIG Fab with the ability to move mountains to hit deadlines and maintain quality for your primary source.   Yet they can't be too large so that they don't care about you as a customer... say like to be held up by an Intel who says, "Whoops, we're late with SandyBridge... sorry about that"

 

To fund say 3-4 competitive fabs up front to develop processes to build your chips/components is a lot of duplicative effort.   It's always better to fund one primary, and retain 'exclusive rights' to their work output (process and product), and once they scale it, you then take their process and present it to other people and say 'this is the process, now you pay for the implementation (we've got Samsung to work out the details) and getting your quality levels up to our needs.'   In other words, in terms of risk, you need a 'partner' that has the capacity to absorb some of the risk.  4 small partners is not the same as 1 big one.

 

Nice post. Well written and educational. 

post #59 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

you mad bro?lol.gif

 

Whether you do something withem or not...its still innovation. And oh yeah, have you used any 3g today? Dumb question, you have an iphone (as usual Apple is years behind in tech so no 4G till decades later), well then yeah, you are using some good old Samsung innovation, which by the way, Apple has not paid for, they just stole. So yeah, your whole argument about Samsung not innovating is kinda weak. 

 

Not their fault they couldn't figure out the rectanglelol.gif I just types that in to see you get mad again. 

 

I wish I could un-read the idiocy I just read, I think I just fried a few braincells. Wow.

Here's a tip: Go learn the english language, learn how to compose a legible, coherent, rational argument, (that's also not full of lies, ignorance, and half-truths) then come back here. In the meantime, try to do something useful with your life that actually benefits you, instead of trolling. What are you doing on an Apple rumors site if you despise the company so much? Why would you waste your time constantly visiting, posting in, and refreshing forums about a company you believe to be 'decades' behind? There's a million other forums that might actually discuss things you like, yet you choose to come here and try to mock others with your pointless blathering?

 

Another example of a thread ruined and side-tracked by utter garbage.  


Edited by Slurpy - 8/2/12 at 11:37am
post #60 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

ooohhh, good way to run away. 

Bring up the patents you say it doesn't matter,
bring up the Samsung innovation as shown by their memory technology, you say its not a whole device so it doesn't matter
Bring up the fact that the iphone is dependent on Samsung innovation, you say it doesn't matter. 

Hmmm, i'll play your game by your rules. 

Samsung sucks, all they do is copy, Apple rules, they invented everything. Samsung never invented anything. Go Apple. 

See, we are on the same side now, where's my turtle neck?

No, you're still spewing irrelevancies.

Samsung is being accused of stealing Apple's technology. Whether or not Samsung has created some of their own technologies is irrelevant to that question.

It's like saying that a billionaire should be able to steal anything he wants because he already has lots of money.
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post #61 of 87
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No, you're still spewing irrelevancies.
Samsung is being accused of stealing Apple's technology. Whether or not Samsung has created some of their own technologies is irrelevant to that question.
It's like saying that a billionaire should be able to steal anything he wants because he already has lots of money.

Actually I was responding to, and I Quote

 

"South Koreans take pride in celebrating that they're wholly unable to come up with their own ideas and so just steal wholesale from Americans

 

So, in that case, I simply showed how that statement is a complete lie. They are able to come up with their own ideas. And i gave evidence of them wholly coming up with their own ideas

 

What's wrong with that? Surely you can't let a blatant lie like "Koreans are wholly unable to come up with their own ideas" pass?

post #62 of 87

ugggh Sharp.  Based on my experience with Sharp television displays, the upcoming iPhone screen will be a grand disappointment.  

 

Talk trash about Samsung all you want, but their displays generally look great.

post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 

Really explain this, this is my point. Why does Samsung need Apple? They represent ~10% of annual electronics division revenue (they aren't even Samsung's biggest client), you think they will suddenly go under if Apple takes off? With Samsung controlling 50% of NAND market alone, by all means I'd love to hear how anyone else is going to crank that out to meet Apple's needs. 

 

Wikipedia:

 

Samsung's largest clients (Q1 2010)[87]
Rank/company Part description Buying (trillionKRW) % of total sales
Sony DRAM, NAND flash, LCD panels, etc... 1.28 3.7
2 Apple Inc. AP (mobile processor), DRAM, NAND flash, etc... 0.9 2.6
Dell DRAM, flat-panels, lithium-ion batteries, etc... 0.87 2.5
Hewlett-Packard DRAM, flat-panels, lithium-ion batteries, etc... 0.76 2.2
Verizon Communications Handsets, etc... 0.5 1.3
AT&T Handsets, etc... 0.5 1.3

[edit]

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post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post


I dont think so, this is deliberated... and Apple is trying hard to flush out Samsung from its supply chain, it cant afford to throw away suppliers for no reasons.

 

seriously guys..  where else is Apple going to go for Flash, CPUs, batteries, etc?  As I've said many many times, there is really nobody else out there big or reliable enough to meet Apple's demand.  Apple has historically used LG or Sharp for displays before, so this is nothing new.


Edited by tooltalk - 8/2/12 at 12:37pm
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by makingdots View Post

 

Yeah, it's probably a controlled leak.

 

sounds like desperation to me..

post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

 

Wikipedia:

 

Samsung's largest clients (Q1 2010)[87]
Rank/company Part description Buying (trillionKRW) % of total sales
Sony DRAM, NAND flash, LCD panels, etc... 1.28 3.7
2 Apple Inc. AP (mobile processor), DRAM, NAND flash, etc... 0.9 2.6
Dell DRAM, flat-panels, lithium-ion batteries, etc... 0.87 2.5
Hewlett-Packard DRAM, flat-panels, lithium-ion batteries, etc... 0.76 2.2
Verizon Communications Handsets, etc... 0.5 1.3
AT&T Handsets, etc... 0.5 1.3

[edit]

That's more than 2 years old. Other more recent earnings report closer the numbers I suggested (which also have been referenced here in various articles). Apple is worth more than 2.6% to Samsung.

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post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

That's more than 2 years old. Other more recent earnings report closer the numbers I suggested (which also have been referenced here in various articles). Apple is worth more than 2.6% to Samsung.

 

Well, I think it's closer to 4.5% of Samsung Electronics gross revenue of $150B in 2010. But perhaps that will change this year - Apple is expected to buy more some $12B worth of components this year.

post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

That's more than 2 years old. Other more recent earnings report closer the numbers I suggested (which also have been referenced here in various articles). Apple is worth more than 2.6% to Samsung.

So may be it's 4% now. That only means that Apple's dependency on Samsung grows overtime and not the other way around. If Apple will start using Sharp as LCD supplier it may drop back to 2.5% or 3%. In any case some 1% would not be a loss for Samsung at all. There are plenty of buyers for Samsung part, which are great quality and good value.

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post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This seems very odd in many ways. I can't expect that shipping a component only this month would lead to quantities ready for sale next month. I can't imagine that Apple would allow Sharp to speak of this. Some might say Apple can't do anything about it but believe me when I say they have contracts that protect them from executives talking.
Did the original comment specifically state it was the iPhone or was that an assumption? If Sharp wants their IGZO displays to gain traction and their quality is less than displays Apple currently uses then this might be perfect for a small, cheap tablet.

It ALL hinges on how many display's Sharp's producing. If they're making a few million, or even 1 million a month, they can deffo do it.

post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

South Koreans take pride in celebrating that they're wholly unable to come up with their own ideas and so just steal wholesale from Americans?

 

The only way they could end their contract with Apple is if they choose not to renew. If they cut it off prematurely, they'll be fined tens of billions of dollars at minimum, and then Apple would probably go to someone else anyway, just to hurt them more.

Fined tens of billions of dollars? are you fucking high?

post #71 of 87
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
Fined tens of billions of dollars? are you fucking high?

 

Right, you enter a manufacturing agreement with the wealthiest corporation on the planet and then break it off before the term is up. See what happens.

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post #72 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

you mad bro?lol.gif

 

Whether you do something withem or not...its still innovation. And oh yeah, have you used any 3g today? Dumb question, you have an iphone (as usual Apple is years behind in tech so no 4G till decades later), well then yeah, you are using some good old Samsung innovation, which by the way, Apple has not paid for, they just stole. So yeah, your whole argument about Samsung not innovating is kinda weak. 

 

Not their fault they couldn't figure out the rectanglelol.gif I just types that in to see you get mad again. 

The idiocy in your posts is mind boggling. Apple bought basebands that support 3G, who ever made the basebands paid licensing fees for 3G, it's not Apple's responsibility, and Apple didn't steal anything. Nobody's mad, and you're a terrible troll. no literally terrible, I know half retarded trolls that are miles ahead of your dumbass.

post #73 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Right, you enter a manufacturing agreement with the wealthiest corporation on the planet and then break it off before the term is up. See what happens.

No company would be able to afford those fines with few exceptions, stop exagerating. Apple's contract break fees are in the contract and they're prenegotiated.

post #74 of 87
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post
No company would be able to afford those fines with few exceptions…

 

Guess who the exceptions are. And guess WHY the fines should be like that.


Apple's contract break fees are in the contract and they're prenegotiated.

 

Absolutely. We don't know what they are, but I imagine they're indicative of the sizes of companies involved.

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post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post


Unfortunately it's just not that possible. That's like trying to use the internet and not having SOME type of even passive interaction with Google. Samsung is simply too big to ignore and really the only ones that can provide the scale of what they make for what Apple needs.

Exactly. That's why I want Apple and Samsung to settle this patent business or at least get it resolved.

post #76 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No, you're still spewing irrelevancies.
Samsung is being accused of stealing Apple's technology. Whether or not Samsung has created some of their own technologies is irrelevant to that question.
It's like saying that a billionaire should be able to steal anything he wants because he already has lots of money.

Many in the USA believe this. People here in the USA don't care how you made your money. The fact that you are rich makes it that much easier to steal. Then people will say...well you should've known he was going to steal from you.

post #77 of 87
This is probably close to shocking for many industries. A product that never spends more than 5 days in the supply chain after leaving the factory doesn't happen often. About the only industries that do better are the perishables that is food stuffs.

The thing here is that Apple will in this case build inventory for a massive debut. I wouldn't be surprised if they shoot for 25 million phones at launch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

I read somewhere that Tim Cook has the supply chain so tight & efficient that the average iPhone/iPad sits in the supply chain for 5 days.  Meaning yeah.. August shipment = September phones on store shelves.
post #78 of 87
Apple is at the point size wise where relying on one partner is stupid. Plain and simple. In fact Apples demands for SoC is growing so fast they likely will need other fab partners beyond Samsung anyways. Apple a year or two ago was already using 80% of Samsungs capacity. While it is not clear what the capacity of Apples and Samsungs 32/28 nm plant in Texas is they very well could be finding themselves in a crunch for parts even if that plant is humming right along.

Honestly they need another SoC supplier even if nothing had ever happened with Samsung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

When you're the largest component consumer in the world, you have few options for large scale fabs.   They are moving that way, but even if you do, you need someone the size of Samsung to take over key fabs (CPU).   Ideally, you want a BIG Fab with the ability to move mountains to hit deadlines and maintain quality for your primary source.   Yet they can't be too large so that they don't care about you as a customer... say like to be held up by an Intel who says, "Whoops, we're late with SandyBridge... sorry about that"

To fund say 3-4 competitive fabs up front to develop processes to build your chips/components is a lot of duplicative effort.
So you fund two. It is only a problem if you don't use the capacity. Beyond that you have foundries like Global Foundries that you don't need to fund with similar processes to Samsungs so it isn't a big deal to consider them as a continepgency plan.
Quote:
  It's always better to fund one primary, and retain 'exclusive rights' to their work output (process and product), and once they scale it, you then take their process and present it to other people and say 'this is the process, now you pay for the implementation (we've got Samsung to work out the details) and getting your quality levels up to our needs.'   In other words, in terms of risk, you need a 'partner' that has the capacity to absorb some of the risk.  4 small partners is not the same as 1 big one.

There is also the concept of not putting all your eggs in one basket.
post #79 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Guess who the exceptions are. And guess WHY the fines should be like that.

 

Absolutely. We don't know what they are, but I imagine they're indicative of the sizes of companies involved.

 

so, in another word, you have no f'ing clue what you are talking about.   Do you have any idea how this typically works in component business?  or Are you an expert in contract law?  

 

Just a lot of imagination?

post #80 of 87
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
so, in another word, you have no f'ing clue what you are talking about.   Do you have any idea how this typically works in component business?  or Are you an expert in contract law?  

 

So try enlightening me if I'm wrong. You're saying there aren't penalties for breaking a contract midway? Then why do we have to pay an ETF to our telecoms if we quit our two year crap early? That's patent nonsense.

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