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Apple wants to wipe Google off the map with iOS 6 - Page 3

post #81 of 146
No street view? I won't be using Apple maps...when is that Google map app out?
post #82 of 146

One nice thing on the Apple example above is that almost every street/avenue is labeled, whereas most aren't in the analogous Google screenshot. Maybe this changes as you zoom in, but generally speaking, I always want to see street names if it's possible without being so cluttered that it's unreadable. I'd gladly trade StreetView for street names--I use StreetView, but almost never on my phone. Also, if it loads faster, as some claim, that would also be a big plus.

post #83 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

There is more Yahoo than Google in iOS 6. I will miss Google Street View though.

 

I'll miss it too, but I have to say that I more commonly use that feature on my iMac not when I'm portable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miniMoe View Post

Now if they'll block *doubleclick* *admob* *adword* *adsense* and *invitemedia* in the new iOS6 privacy feature, I'll be happier. Let me add Adblock and/or Ghostery and I'll be very happy.

 

Wouldn't that be NICE!!  Remember, with Apple YOU are the CUSTOMER. With google YOU are the PRODUCT, the customer is the advertiser.

post #84 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Well that remains to be seen. Seems to pretty clearly violate the app store rule about doing the same thing 1st party apps do. 

And besides, what's Apple's motivation to keep it in the store? They want to crush Google, not give them a lifeline. 

Apple wants to be in control of the technologies it relies on, but if a Google App adds non-critical functionality that helps them sell more iOS devices, they won't hesitate to allow it. I actually wish Apple would license Google street view for some period, until they have their own version.
post #85 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Why is it that on the Google Map, you can see a small island above the Lands End pin, but it's not displayed on the Apple map? And why is it that the small islands east of Point Lobos Avenue are simply displayed as a large triangle on the Apple maps? And why is it that the Presido Golf Course and Clubhouse text is almost unreadable on the Apple maps?

 

>.<

 

Interesting observations. The 'small island' is actually some man made feature (see the satellite map), resembling an oil platform...

 

The small islands west of Cliff House are the "Seal Rocks"… not islands really, and a rather triangular feature, in fact...

 

I tried a few map services, just to see who does what… on both Bing maps and Mapquest the Seal Rocks are missing completely… 

 

In Mapmaking there is a very clear 'stylistic' and design approach that is typical and normal. Mapmakers traditionally develop their own 'style' for their maps… I think it'll take a bit of time for Apple to settle into their groove. I look forward to it, since what I'm seeing as iteration 1.0 looks pretty solid for a starting point.

 

This style is in addition to maintaining accuracy and clarity. They can take some liberties in how they represent features… what to include in the details, etc.

 

Frankly, I'm really used to the Google maps style (and I intensely dislike Bing maps for some reason)… mapquest has certainly improved over the years, but is still not my favorite. I'm sure it'll take some adjustment period to get used to the new maps… I want to give them some due before deciding what I prefer...

 

In any case, here's hoping Apple can do a bang up job with the new mapping services…! 

post #86 of 146

What I want is an Apple Maps app for Mac OS X all tied up in iCloud and appearing on all my devices -- just like Safari Tabs in iOS6 & Mountain Lion will work.

post #87 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

I tried a few map services, just to see who does what… on both Bing maps and Mapquest the Seal Rocks are missing completely… 

 

In Mapmaking there is a very clear 'stylistic' and design approach that is typical and normal. Mapmakers traditionally develop their own 'style' for their maps… I think it'll take a bit of time for Apple to settle into their groove. I look forward to it, since what I'm seeing as iteration 1.0 looks pretty solid for a starting point.

 

This style is in addition to maintaining accuracy and clarity. They can take some liberties in how they represent features… what to include in the details, etc

Is Apple creating these maps or using them as supplied by TeleAtlas (Tomtom) or DMTI or whoever they're sourcing for particular regions? Perhaps someone with the Tomtom app and access to the beta Apple Maps could check a couple of US or Canada areas to see if they match.

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post #88 of 146

For the last time, people. WALKING DIRECTIONS ARE NOT GONE!!!!!! Where is this garbage information coming from??

 

 

 

700

 

 

EDIT: Here's another one. Apple's map servers were struggling for a bit, throwing errors so I couldn't actually route at the time.

 

 

700


Edited by Solowalker - 8/2/12 at 4:25pm
post #89 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Think of how people managed in the thousands of years before we had these things.

 

If you were in 16th century Spain you would have been one of the one's calling Columbus crazy for wanting to go where there were no maps.

 

Here's to the crazy ones and boo to the lazy ones.

 

This might be the stupidest thing I've read on AI, and that's saying a lot. You could apply your same argument to literally every single feature of iOS. We got by fine before smartphones, so who needs them?

post #90 of 146

"Additionally, Microsoft just skates to where the puck is."

 

I stopped reading there. No chance of mistaking this infantile bilge for actual tech journalism, is there?

post #91 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Is Apple creating these maps or using them as supplied by TeleAtlas (Tomtom) or DMTI or whoever they're sourcing for particular regions? Perhaps someone with the Tomtom app and access to the beta Apple Maps could check a couple of US or Canada areas to see if they match.

Apple's map data is being drawn from a very wide range of sources, including TomTom and OpenStreetMap. Check this out:

 

http://gspsa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html

 

Their map skin is their own, though. They have control over how it looks, though they may not own the data.

post #92 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Is Apple creating these maps or using them as supplied by TeleAtlas (Tomtom) or DMTI or whoever they're sourcing for particular regions? Perhaps someone with the Tomtom app and access to the beta Apple Maps could check a couple of US or Canada areas to see if they match.


They're using OpenStreeMaps http://www.openstreetmap.org/, an "open source" map. It's a combination of public records, donated maps, and user submitted info (think wikipedia). Pretty cool concept, actually.

 

I'm torn. I'm a fan of Open Source projects, but Google Maps has a lot of great features.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #93 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solowalker View Post

Apple's map data is being drawn from a very wide range of sources, including TomTom and OpenStreetMap. Check this out:

 

http://gspsa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html

 

Their map skin is their own, though. They have control over how it looks, though they may not own the data.

I was aware of all the sources, but they're not being combined for a specific region AFAIK. In other words I didn't think they were taking aTeleAtlas mapset for New York and overlaying OSM on top. That sounds problematic with the possibility of conflicting road geometries and classifications which could severely affect proper routing. I could be wrong but I don't believe so. 


Edited by Gatorguy - 8/2/12 at 4:21pm
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post #94 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

They'll release their own app so you won't have to miss it.

not sure if you're following, Tim. as far as we know, iOS 6 maps don't have a replacement for street view at all. the new flyover' feature's nice and all, but that doesn't help us see what a destination or neighborhood looks like on the ground.

unless apple has a surprise replacement specifically for streetview, a lot of folks are going to be disappointed by the loss of functionality.
post #95 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I was aware of all the sources, but they're not being combined for a specific region AFAIK. In other words I didn't think they were taking aTeleAtlas mapset for New York and overlaying OSM on top. That sounds problematic. I could be wrong. 

No, they're probably not combining multiple sources, just picking what they feel is the best source for the region (and probably using OpenStreetMap for the rest). I would assume that since TomTom's involvement is so prominently displayed both in the UI and in legal, they're providing the majority of the map data.

post #96 of 146

The irony in Google's "Don't Be Evil" motto is grand.

post #97 of 146

I imagine Google will have their Maps app ready to be submitted when Apple opens up the App Store for iOS 6 submissions. They've had enough notice that Apple is switching and imagine it's a priority to have it ready. So for everyone that relies on StreetView, you'll be able to download Google Maps and use that.

 

However, losing the ties via the API may not make things as convenient if you want to use it. Tap an address and it opens Apple's Maps. I don't imagine they'll give you a way to change this default, just as they don't give you a way to change the default web browser from Safari to something else (but you can certainly install other browsers). Eventually people will get used to this and use Google Maps less and less unless there's a very compelling reason to consciously make sure to use it.

 

Apple won't block the Google Maps app. I don't see how they could and leave other mapping apps such as TomTom and Navigon in the App Store.

 

My two cents.

post #98 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

I thought Apple's only really choice for a native turn-by-turn navigation maps app was to create their own. Google doesn't allow anyone else to my knowledge to create turn-by-turn nav using their proprietary maps and Google certainly wasn't going to allow the maps app on the iPhone to get nav. This was Apple's only choice to get native, free maps with nav on the iPhone.

 

Maybe if Google releases a Google Maps app in the App Store (which they'd be stupid not to), they'll put nav in it as well.

 

Navigation has been an embarrassing missing feature for the iPhone and it was about time Apple did something about it. Just because it happens to coincide with the iOS vs. Android competition (which it really doesn't because this battle has been going on since 2009 or earlier), doesn't mean Apple is trying to be anticompetitive.

 

What I think it truly interesting is the way Apple is approaching Maps. They are turning it into it's own mini app store essentially. Public APIs that can tie into custom third-party apps (read: personal map upgrades), that's what's really exciting and it encourages and promotes new markets, competition, and features! I don't think people really understand what protential this has. This could be the next big "App Store" revolution, and Apple is getting in on the ground floor (again!).

 

Tom Tom do turn by turn navigation on iOS, if I'm not mistaken.

post #99 of 146

If street view is that important and Google wont license maybe Navteq (Nokia) will or perhaps they can get it via Bing Maps or Yahoo.

 

Bing/Yahoo may insist that they become the default search engine though.  Or Apple can offer $12B to Nokia for Navteq and Nokia will make a few billion off the sale (paid $8.1B) and double their cash on hand...which if they don't want to sell themselves to MS is a decent deal.

 

Here's the streetside schedule:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/maps/en-GB/streetside-schedule.aspx

 

If they can license the street slide implementation from MS it'll actually be far more usable than Street View:

 

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/street_slide/

 

Two years old and still pretty cool.  I wonder if it's in Bing Maps yet.  Pretty danged stupid if it isn't.  Works on the iPhone...heh.

 

What's with the trolls?  Apple maps have to do x, y and z or you wont update to iOS 6?  Lack of streetview will make folks move to Android?  That's pretty damn transparent.

post #100 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

 

Tom Tom do turn by turn navigation on iOS, if I'm not mistaken.

 

Tom Tom uses their own maps and not the Google ones...that Google itself licenses pieces from Tele-Atlas and others. Google's TOS for the maps API appear to prohibit Apple from doing turn by turn. Probably they weren't bending over backwards for Apple to renegotiate the TOS.

 

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/ask-ars-why-did-apple-have-to-ditch-google-to-add-turn-by-turn-nav/

 

I could see Apple buying Tom-Tom but I would have expected them to have already done so if they intended to.

post #101 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Why is it that on the Google Map, you can see a small island above the Lands End pin, but it's not displayed on the Apple map? And why is it that the small islands east of Point Lobos Avenue are simply displayed as a large triangle on the Apple maps? And why is it that the Presido Golf Course and Clubhouse text is almost unreadable on the Apple maps?

 

>.<

 

The "small island" north of Lands End is a light house poking out of the water that nobody can actually visit: Mile Rock. http://www.flickr.com/photos/schuberts/238099360/

 

The small islands east of Point Lobos are the Farallon Islands, which are chunks of rock covered in bird poop. They are actually also off limits to the public (wildlife refuge), and far further from the coast than they appear in either map. The only reason for putting them on the map would be to indicate that there are bits of land one can see from the Cliff House. Both Google's and Apple's maps depict them as larger and closer to land than they actually are, just as a point of reference. 

 

The actual Presido labels are much easier to read on the iPad than they appear in this graphic, which has been scaled down to fit the article. Remember that the iPad has a Retina Display. The text has a white background shadow that makes it pop from the background, which isn't really visible in this scaled down screenshot.

post #102 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

If street view is that important and Google wont license maybe Navteq (Nokia) will or perhaps they can get it via Bing Maps or Yahoo.

 

Bing/Yahoo may insist that they become the default search engine though.  Or Apple can offer $12B to Nokia for Navteq and Nokia will make a few billion off the sale (paid $8.1B) and double their cash on hand...which if they don't want to sell themselves to MS is a decent deal.

 

Here's the streetside schedule:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/maps/en-GB/streetside-schedule.aspx

 

If they can license the street slide implementation from MS it'll actually be far more usable than Street View:

 

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/street_slide/

 

Two years old and still pretty cool.  I wonder if it's in Bing Maps yet.  Pretty danged stupid if it isn't.  Works on the iPhone...heh.

 

What's with the trolls?  Apple maps have to do x, y and z or you wont update to iOS 6?  Lack of streetview will make folks move to Android?  That's pretty damn transparent.

Microsoft is dropping Bing maps in favor of Nokia/Navteq mapping for WinMo8

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post #103 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

If street view is that important and Google wont license maybe Navteq (Nokia) will or perhaps they can get it via Bing Maps or Yahoo.

 

Bing/Yahoo may insist that they become the default search engine though.  Or Apple can offer $12B to Nokia for Navteq and Nokia will make a few billion off the sale (paid $8.1B) and double their cash on hand...which if they don't want to sell themselves to MS is a decent deal.

 

Here's the streetside schedule:

 

http://www.microsoft.com/maps/en-GB/streetside-schedule.aspx

 

If they can license the street slide implementation from MS it'll actually be far more usable than Street View:

 

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/street_slide/

 

Two years old and still pretty cool.  I wonder if it's in Bing Maps yet.  Pretty danged stupid if it isn't.  Works on the iPhone...heh.

 

What's with the trolls?  Apple maps have to do x, y and z or you wont update to iOS 6?  Lack of streetview will make folks move to Android?  That's pretty damn transparent.

As interesting as that Street Slide is, Apple already owns a bunch of street view stuff. Would they need to buy more?

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/07/c3-technologies-3d-maps-also-offer-street-views-and-interior-views/

post #104 of 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

What will stop Google from adopting the Apple API if Apple lets others do it for free?

Nothing. But why would a Google maps application use maps developed by Apple?

 

Now Google needs to make its map operation even better in order to entice people on iOS devices to continue using Google Maps.

If Apple is not using Google maps, then Google will need to have a Maps app int eh store, people will need to download it and use it specifically. Likely the Apple API will only use Apple maps so using any app to then open a maps will open the Apple map.

 

For Apple this is really just one step away from having its own search engine. If iOS 7 comes out with its own search engine

iOS 7 will not have a internet search engine.
An internet search engine is not part of an OS. Apple could develop a search engine and add something in the OS/web browser to use it.

post #105 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Microsoft is dropping Bing maps in favor of Nokia/Navteq mapping for WinMo8

 

Bing maps has always used quite a bit of map data from NavTeq as well as TeleAtlas/TomTom and others.  Given that Nokia is their primo WinPhone partner this wasn't surprising.

 

TeleAtlas/TomTom has a bunch of streetview cars out there now but nary a word about actual streetview availability.  I'm guessing the data's not massaged enough yet for Apple to include and Apple has paid for secrecy.

 

I dunno...TomTom strikes me as pretty screwed.  Maybe Apple will buy them out but probably they aren't ready to sell yet.

post #106 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solowalker View Post

As interesting as that Street Slide is, Apple already owns a bunch of street view stuff. Would they need to buy more?

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/07/c3-technologies-3d-maps-also-offer-street-views-and-interior-views/

 

If the research and solution is original I'd assume that MSR has a patent winding it's way through the UPTO.  It's a navigation capability and not a rendering capability.

post #107 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

 

Why do the Google map search results litter the screen with their spammy Sponsored Links?

 

Exactly. The ads are just incredibly annoying. I've had the stupid 'sponsored links' cover up real results on several occasions making it difficult to tap on real search results. I think I'll be happier with maps that give turn-by-turn directions, look better, and aren't jammed full of ad-spam crap.

 

Oh, and Google: Steve says thanks for stealing the look and feel of Apple's OS and partnering with companies that have stolen the design of its devices. First mushroom cloud will be rising soon when mapping revenue disappears. Clearly if Siri can move forwards, the days of people defaulting to a Google search on iOS may be numbered as well. Payback is a b*tch.

post #108 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by miniMoe View Post

Now if they'll block *doubleclick* *admob* *adword* *adsense* and *invitemedia* in the new iOS6 privacy feature, I'll be happier. Let me add Adblock and/or Ghostery and I'll be very happy.

In most cases if you don't want ads, pay for software.
post #109 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Bing maps has always used quite a bit of map data from NavTeq as well as TeleAtlas/TomTom and others.  Given that Nokia is their primo WinPhone partner this wasn't surprising.

 

TeleAtlas/TomTom has a bunch of streetview cars out there now but nary a word about actual streetview availability.  I'm guessing the data's not massaged enough yet for Apple to include and Apple has paid for secrecy.

 

I dunno...TomTom strikes me as pretty screwed.  Maybe Apple will buy them out but probably they aren't ready to sell yet.

Those TeleAtlas cars aren't doing "streetview" work. They're simply to make mapping and routing more accurate by making note of actual intersections and/or roadway details including signs and any other road markings. They have no plans for any publicly available "Streetview" similar to Google.

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post #110 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

 

Unless Apple plans to dramatically change colors, make green text on green parks more readable, make details like small islands actually show up on the maps, add something equivalent to nationwide Street View, and enable walking directions within the next two months, then they are NOT replacing it with something better.

 

I pray that they do improve it before the final release or at least allow Google Maps as an alternative app.

There's no question of Apple "allowing" Google Maps as an alternative app. It's up to Google to develop one and put it in the app store.

post #111 of 146

 

I will believe with when I see it. Dethroning Google is not easy, especially at its own game. Google Maps are functional, fast, informative and they reside on the highly reliable and time-tested proprietary Google servers. 

 

Apple, on the other hand, has always sucked at syncing (iDisk anyone?) and its recent iCloud offerrings are still subpar. One thing that Apple is the king at - consumer hardware - has very little do to with map implementation per se.

 

 

 

So I see Apple's foray into maps as overly ambitions and think that the statements such as Apple is going to “push Google quite literally off the map” as premature. 

 

 

In fact, by pushing its own map service, Apple risks to frustrate its customers who are used to the already excellent and reliable Google Maps. 

post #112 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Well that remains to be seen. Seems to pretty clearly violate the app store rule about doing the same thing 1st party apps do. 

 

And besides, what's Apple's motivation to keep it in the store? They want to crush Google, not give them a lifeline. 

If there were a rule against apps doing the same thing 1st party apps do, Apple would have kicked out every stock market app, every texting app, and most important, every mapping app among others. There are tons of 3rd party mapping apps. 

 

If Google puts together an app for the app store, I see no reason why Apple wouldn't allow it.

post #113 of 146

I can't figure out how this doesn't break every anti-competitive rule out there. How does MS get bent over every barrel in Europe but Apple gets a free pass?

post #114 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilboteabagins View Post

I can't figure out how this doesn't break every anti-competitive rule out there. How does MS get bent over every barrel in Europe but Apple gets a free pass?

Obviously because Microsoft was a monopoly and Apple is not.

Next question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post

not sure if you're following, Tim. as far as we know, iOS 6 maps don't have a replacement for street view at all. the new flyover' feature's nice and all, but that doesn't help us see what a destination or neighborhood looks like on the ground.
unless apple has a surprise replacement specifically for streetview, a lot of folks are going to be disappointed by the loss of functionality.

And those folks are free to not use Apple Maps.

Personally, I can't see what the excitement is about Street View. Are you really so incompetent that you can't read a GPS screen and see where you are?
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post #115 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Clearly if Siri can move forwards, the days of people defaulting to a Google search on iOS may be numbered as well.

Assuming they remove and get a replacement for Google in Siri searches.
post #116 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilboteabagins View Post

I can't figure out how this doesn't break every anti-competitive rule out there. How does MS get bent over every barrel in Europe but Apple gets a free pass?

It's simple. MS has a history of anti-competitive behavior that extend into convictions. That said, what MS has been facing in recent years is complete bullocks , especially now with their browser tie-in of IE on Win8 RT.

Apple has no monopoly or conviction at this point in which to pursue legal action. They don't even have the leading marketshare of installed mobile OSes on smartphones. At some point I hope Apple does allow you to change the links and other actions are directed to a default apps the way you can with Mail, Safari, Image Capture, Preview for emails, webpages, photos, and PDFs, respectively.

If you are going to accuse Apple of such things at least make a case as to how they have a monopoly to abuse.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #117 of 146

What is this Google that you speak of?

post #118 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilboteabagins View Post

I can't figure out how this doesn't break every anti-competitive rule out there. How does MS get bent over every barrel in Europe but Apple gets a free pass?

 

Because Microsoft had a monopoly on the desktop but Apple doesn't have a monopoly in mobile.

 

And up to now, Google has had a monopoly on mobile maps.

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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post #119 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

 

Tom Tom do turn by turn navigation on iOS, if I'm not mistaken.

As does MapQuest.

post #120 of 146

I just hope they update it soon.  It lacks old updates, and keeps getting addresses wrong that Google fixed a while back.

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