Apple removes YouTube app from iOS with beta 4 release of iOS 6 [u] - Page 2

Obviously AI is going to have a pro-Apple opinion on this. At the risk of being called a troll, despite about 95% of my posts being pro-Apple and being here for years etc, this is a very very bad move. 

Think the average user. I mentioned something about iOS 6 recently and a non-technical friend replied on Twitter that she was looking forward to it. Shes a big iPhone fan.

What she will get - the most obvious things at least are

1) An inferior map service with no StreetView

2) No youtube.

Whats new?  From here - http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Apples-iOS-6-Whats-New-and-Whats-Missing/?page=1 - because I honestly forget.

Siri on iPads.

Reading list. 

FB integration.

Passbook, smassbook.

FaceTime over 3G

An Iphone user wont notice siri on iPads. Reading list is a minor addition. FB integration wont matter, as apps do that already where they need to. Passbook wont be useful off the bat. iCloud integration on Safari is a small update, and matters to people with more than one device. FaceTime, not really used on iPhones and you better never use it on a data plan.

So, the update will seem like a regression to the average user. They will download and wonder what has changed and miss youtube and google maps. The day after a general release the conversation will be how to download google maps and you tube. 

This is nuts: just as Apple uses google search, it should use google where it has to, where Google is better. And cut the crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom 

So glad the Android version of this app is incredible.

 

Amazing UI and can even preload my videos for whatever channel

Oh my God - that's SO AWESOME!!!  What's even better is that your iOS knockoff device lets you troll Apple forums!

I've been reading through this thread, and in typical fashion, there are a lot of 'who cares it sucks anyway' responses.  I'm a huge Apple fan, a developer, and I own large amounts of Apple product.  And this is my opinion:

It does matter.

First, it is not easier and more effective to use You Tube in Safari.  It is notably slower, and it crashes the browser frequently.  

Second, saying that the loss of the Apple designed application is unimportant is by implication arguing that it is better to let Google determine the best way to interact with this content on an Apple device, and that is never ever a safe bet in my opinion.  Take a look at other Google designed applications, and compare them to their Apple counterparts.  Google designed apps are almost always crap and they almost never demonstrate the same ease of use, intelligence of design, or even basic thought that Apple designed applications do.  YouTube on Google branded devices like Google TV, tablets, etc. is just a frustratingly crappy experience and I cannot believe anyone seriously would recommend that over the Apple designed application.  Ditto for Netflix on GoogleTV.  And what about GoogleTV itself.  Crappy.  YouTube actually is an important feature to many people, and letting Google determine what that experience will be like on an iOS device is just not good.

Third, you are arguing that it is best to let Google determine what is acceptable in the platform and what isn't.  The Apple App could have parental controls and other restrictions put in place, and it thoughtfully did not expose the user to every video of a gyrating hoochie within a 12 nation radius just because it is 'popular', a great feature for those of us who have kids that want to see videos of roller coasters or marble machines.  Google does not, as a corporation, feel such things are important and does not even provide users with a way of determining what should and should not make it onto their home page.  So, saying you feel ok letting Google control that is arguing you are ok letting Google have some meaningful influence in the platform experience and I think that's garbage in a major way.

Last, YouTube is a major draw and reason for devices like Apple TV.  And since AppleTV has no browser, loosing the app is a significant product change.  Hopefully the change will not extend to Apple TV.

Apple: "Hey, it looks like our 5-year contract with you to use YouTube is running out, and we should renegotiate"

Google: "That's right, we want another $5 per device for the privileges of us advertising to your users"

Apple: "So how much is that going to cost us since we have half the market of actual, people using their devices?"

Google: "Eleventy Gabillion Dollars"

Apple: "Right...."

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


The difference is Google will supply the app on iOS or you'll just use your browser of choice to load videos. The latter is much, much preferable option in my opinion.

Yep I like web apps where most of the content is coming from the Internet anyway. That way you don't need dozens of stand alone apps. maps.google.com works pretty well also except no street view since there is still not a suitable Flash alternative in Mobile Safari. I'm not sure how they made it work in the iOS app but apparently HTML5 has a ways to go before it can replace some things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt92618 

Third, you are arguing that it is best to let Google determine what is acceptable in the platform and what isn't.  The Apple App could have parental controls and other restrictions put in place, and it thoughtfully did not expose the user to every video of a gyrating hoochie within a 12 nation radius

I know someone will eventually ask anyway, might as well get it out of the way. Do you have any links to the gyrating hoochies?

Just kidding. I get your point. I never really considered that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 

I know someone will eventually ask anyway, might as well get it out of the way. Do you have any links to the gyrating hoochies?

Just kidding. I get your point. I never really considered that.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

Dumping YouTube is a strategic blunder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


How about the best thing S. Korea has ever produced?

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

I'd like to see it however it seems that YouTube cannot deliver it to me at this time. I am getting 20M download speed according to Speedtest.net so either that video is really popular or perhaps someone put some parental controls on my Mac. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I don't quite understand this one. How has iOS's Parental Controls prevented certain video content to not be loaded in the YouTube app? Is Apple analyzing each video for content?
Also, if you give your child an iDevice with access to Safari you've already lost that battle.

I think they are rated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflocal 

I'd add my 2-cents but it appears the sane folks here did it for me...

Sane folks have him on ignore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Guy 

This is starting to get ugly. I've been an Apple customer since 1983. No longer being the hungry underdog, they are now telling users what to like and what to not like. I haven't used the new "Maps" for iOS 6, but I am familiar with and have used "Maps" for the last 3 or 4 years on the iPhone. I can only wonder now with the elimination of the YouTube application (yes, I know it will still be available through Safari for the iPhone, which some people may even claim has more features) that Apple will replace it with something called "iTube". It's only a matter of time before they start restricting what pages Safari will load, and what pages its customers should and should not see.

Wow, hyperbole much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I don't quite understand this one. How has iOS's Parental Controls prevented certain video content to not be loaded in the YouTube app? Is Apple analyzing each video for content?
Also, if you give your child an iDevice with access to Safari you've already lost that battle.

How do I use Safety Mode?

Follow the instructions below to access and turn on Safety Mode:

Safety Mode On:

• Click Safety Mode at the bottom of every page to open the preference setting
• Click On and Save to opt in
• You are now in Safety Mode!

 

To opt out, open Preferences and Click Off and Save.

Locked Safety Mode:

• Sign in to your YouTube account
• Click Safety Mode at the bottom of every page to open the preference setting
• Click On and Save and Lock to opt in and lock this browser
• You are now in Locked Safety Mode!
•  
  To opt out, open Preferences and Click Unlock Safety Mode.
  Enter your YouTube password to unlock Safety Mode.

Apple is reducing the value of its iOS platform. In many ways, this is the worst aspect of Apple's "go it alone" personality coming to the fore. I trust a platform more when it is a collaborative environment, with multiple parties and vendors contributing to the overall suite of services. Apple really wants to use its services exclusively. iTunes for music and video, iCloud for synchronized storage, iCal for calendaring, Address Book for contacts, Safari and Mail for internet, and now a custom built mapping solution. I wouldn't be too surprised if they come out with their own web search.

Ok, well let me be more specific.  I happen to have a Google TV, and an Apple TV.  I sometimes use the GoogleTV because it is integrated into my HDTV, but if I want to show my kids a movie of a volcano erupting, or any of the 990 bajillion other things little boys want to know about, I cannot do it on the Google TV.  Why?  Because on the Google TV the YouTube 'home' page - the page you see immediately when you load the application - shows primarily and prominently those videos which are most popular right now.  And those videos are predictably almost always some skanky hooch gyrating on some rapper's lap.  Worse, Google doesn't even give users a way to control that experience, so you cannot even do so much as set a preference to not show the popular items.  So, while I agree with the admonition to not give your kid a mobile device, it really side-steps the issue a bit; I cannot even crank up the app itself without my 4 year old witnessing scantily clad skanks gyrating against someone else's crotch, in 52 inches.

One of the key differences between Apple and Google is that Apple thinks it is important to give users choices over their content.  Google spouts a mantra of 'freedom' for content, but what that maps to in practice is that you are free to experience whatever garbage we want to spew at you, so that we can figure out a way to profit from your consumption of it.

I'm pretty much a believer that the reason Google Apps are almost always so really abysmally bad is, first and foremost, because the application isn't Google's primary product; you are.  So of course they have no real interest in ensuring that your experience of their application is wonderful, or in giving you really effective mechanisms for controlling that experience.  In fact, giving you that power actually runs counter to their real business because it limits their reach and control over how you obtain and interact with content.  This is in my opinion part of what Steve Jobs was 'on about' when he caustically derided Google's 'don't be evil' corporate standard.  What Google does in my opinion is fundamentally evil on many levels, because it turns people into a product; instead of concentrating on providing value to the consumer, Google's many projects focus on, in real terms, extracting value from them.  Any value the consumer realizes as a follow-on is largely ancillary in value to google, and that is why, I suspect, so many of their efforts or so bad when first out of the box.

Don't really care about the youtube app since I never used it too much. As long as Google can create apps in the store I see no big downside to this feud. I prefer Picassa over Flickr though. Glad they are adding Facebook as a share option but an even better solution would be to allow us to choose what sharing services we want to use in the settings. Add all the major services as an option in settings and then let us choose which ones we want to use. For people that don't even use Twitter that must be frustrating to always see that option. 

And I'll just add to this that there are two other points I made, one of which is how just abysmally bad Google produced applications are.  Letting Google control the experience of a significant selling point for a device is very very questionable as a tactic.  That's why, I suggest, Apple originally built their own YouTube and Maps applications; these were considered too central to the device's marketing points to be left in the hands of Google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt92618 

 

Second, saying that the loss of the Apple designed application is unimportant is by implication arguing that it is better to let Google determine the best way to interact with this content on an Apple device, and that is never ever a safe bet in my opinion.  Take a look at other Google designed applications, and compare them to their Apple counterparts.  Google designed apps are almost always crap and they almost never demonstrate the same ease of use, intelligence of design, or even basic thought that Apple designed applications do.  YouTube on Google branded devices like Google TV, tablets, etc. is just a frustratingly crappy experience and I cannot believe anyone seriously would recommend that over the Apple designed application.  Ditto for Netflix on GoogleTV.  And what about GoogleTV itself.  Crappy.  YouTube actually is an important feature to many people, and letting Google determine what that experience will be like on an iOS device is just not good.

I'll point out I'm definitely anti-apple but realize people like their products because they're good and people like the ease of integration that Apple products deliver.  

I own a handful of Google products and some are better than others.  I actually enjoy my Google TV though.  It has the best netflix interface I've seen (roku, xbox, ps3, blu-ray players).  I've not messed with an Apple TV though so perhaps it has a better interface but from what I've used Google TV has the best netflix interface.  Youtube also works fine on the Google TV.  It could be better and doesn't compare to using youtube on a desktop or even a mobile device but it's still very functional and I find if I want to youtube something in bed I can quite easily with my Google TV.  I don't usually 'browse' youtube.  When I go to youtube it's for a specific purpose, Google TV's youtube app handles this magnificently (a fully QWERTY keyboard on the remote control is a definite plus in this regard).  I thought the bashing on Google TV was unwarranted from my personal usage of one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstone 

We'll know they are serious when they no longer allow Google search on iOS and remove the GMail choice in the Mail accounts. Apple gets paid big $ for Google being the default search, not that Apple really needs the money. Those contracts are probably coming up soon too.

Apple's never going to restrict its users from using GMail or Google Search. They may downplay those options, but that's not the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by graxspoo 

Apple is reducing the value of its iOS platform. In many ways, this is the worst aspect of Apple's "go it alone" personality coming to the fore. I trust a platform more when it is a collaborative environment, with multiple parties and vendors contributing to the overall suite of services. Apple really wants to use its services exclusively. iTunes for music and video, iCloud for synchronized storage, iCal for calendaring, Address Book for contacts, Safari and Mail for internet, and now a custom built mapping solution. I wouldn't be too surprised if they come out with their own web search.

Can you blame them? And why not? If home-grown is done *right*, it can very well offer s superior experience due to the integration and that special "Apple touch" when it comes to apps. 

My question is, with all of Apple's billions, all that talent, WHY NOT go it alone? The more Apple differentiates themselves from the rest of the pack, the more attractive all that promise of integration will be. The very reason Apple are so successful today is *because* they barely license anything. All that control over their platform is a boon to consumers. At least, so say their wallets. 

I'm sorry you felt it unwarranted.  I happen to own both a GoogleTV and an AppleTV, and I think it is very warranted.  It goes without saying that these are my opinions... but they aren't formed in a vacuum; I have extensive experience with both platforms and with the various apps core to each.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


That's what I don't understand. That's a server-side setting, not something that is unique to Apple's YouTube app. So how is this feature going away simply because Apple isn't making the app?

I just posted that to show you that they are rated. I have not researched it but I would imagine the iOS app works exactly the same way. Why else would it show up in the parental restrictions settings if it had no effect? It was more about the other poster saying YouTube browser had no restrictions as well as your remark which I understood to imply that the app could not restrict content.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider 


Adobe has canceled Flash development on mobile devices, and its middleware platform is now becoming increasingly irrelevant on the web as HTML 5 takes over more and more features formerly served by Flash. After YouTube's switch to serving H.264, other prominent video distributors followed suit, to the point where most of the world's web videos do not require Flash to work, an unbelievable scenario back in 2007.

Total nonsense, and factually incorrect. FUD! Adobe didn't cancel Flash development on mobile, they dropped the Flash Player support in lieu of native AIR applications, which are Flash. Flash is the primary format of all major video streaming sites, and supporting 3 formats instead of 1 format has created a problem, not solved one. HTML(5) still is not, and will not be for years and years, able to supersede or even parity the features in Flash. What you're describing isn't Apple winning, it's Adobe making peace with the fact that a mobile browser plugin will never gain ubiquity because Apple refuses to support it. Flash is still very much relevant and every time I hear an Apple fanboy spout some nonsense about it being dead, it just reminds me how ill informed people truly are. Such is the American way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Miles 

 

I'll point out I'm definitely anti-apple but realize people like their products because they're good and people like the ease of integration that Apple products deliver.  

 

I own a handful of Google products and some are better than others.  I actually enjoy my Google TV though.  It has the best netflix interface I've seen (roku, xbox, ps3, blu-ray players).  I've not messed with an Apple TV though so perhaps it has a better interface but from what I've used Google TV has the best netflix interface.  Youtube also works fine on the Google TV.  It could be better and doesn't compare to using youtube on a desktop or even a mobile device but it's still very functional and I find if I want to youtube something in bed I can quite easily with my Google TV.  I don't usually 'browse' youtube.  When I go to youtube it's for a specific purpose, Google TV's youtube app handles this magnificently (a fully QWERTY keyboard on the remote control is a definite plus in this regard).  I thought the bashing on Google TV was unwarranted from my personal usage of one.

I'm sorry you felt it unwarranted.  I happen to own both a GoogleTV and an AppleTV, and I think it is very warranted.  It goes without saying that these are my opinions... but they aren't formed in a vacuum; I have extensive experience with both platforms and with the various apps core to each.

I'm glad Apple is putting its personal vendetta against Google above the welfare of its customers.  Always a good sign of strong leadership.

/S

Quote:

Originally Posted by freediverx 

Apple's never going to restrict its users from using GMail or Google Search. They may downplay those options, but that's not the same thing.

Of course they can't restrict it as that would be against the law. What I am suggesting is that GMail will be configured under  "Other Mail" and Google search will have to be accessed through the browser. I would imagine the current settings and selections are purely contractual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Guy 

This is starting to get ugly. I've been an Apple customer since 1983. No longer being the hungry underdog, they are now telling users what to like and what to not like. I haven't used the new "Maps" for iOS 6, but I am familiar with and have used "Maps" for the last 3 or 4 years on the iPhone. I can only wonder now with the elimination of the YouTube application (yes, I know it will still be available through Safari for the iPhone, which some people may even claim has more features) that Apple will replace it with something called "iTube".

Do you want to pay 2.25% of the total cost of your iPhone, PC or X-Box to Google for the use of one or two H.264 standards essential patents?

Google want you to, which is why they continue to aggressively sue Apple and Microsoft, even though as a member of MPEG-LA they agreed not to.

Good riddance to bad (patent trolling) rubbish.

Who cares about iOS devices? I haven't used my iPad in over 4 months, and I prefer to use a landline telephone anyways. Mac is where it's at! Long live the desktop!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Guy 

This is starting to get ugly. I've been an Apple customer since 1983. No longer being the hungry underdog, they are now telling users what to like and what to not like. I haven't used the new "Maps" for iOS 6, but I am familiar with and have used "Maps" for the last 3 or 4 years on the iPhone. I can only wonder now with the elimination of the YouTube application (yes, I know it will still be available through Safari for the iPhone, which some people may even claim has more features) that Apple will replace it with something called "iTube". It's only a matter of time before they start restricting what pages Safari will load, and what pages its customers should and should not see.

Really?

I think you need treatment for your paranoid delusions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider 
Update: in a statement issued to Reuters Apple said:

Our license to include the YouTube app in iOS has ended, customers can use YouTube in the Safari browser and Google is working on a new YouTube app to be on the App Store.

I'd bet money that Apple's license to include the Maps app in iOS expires at the same time the YouTube app license expires.