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Internal Samsung memo shows iPhone caused 'crisis of design'

post #1 of 117
Thread Starter 
An internal Samsung email presented at Apple v. Samsung proceedings on Monday shows the South Korean electronics giant had what it calls a "crisis of design" when the first iPhone launched in 2007.

During the fourth day of proceedings in the U.S. patent trial, Samsung Chief Strategy Officer Justin Denison continued his testimony by bringing out an internal memo meant to highlight the company's pride and competitive nature, reports Forbes.

According to Denison, Samsung has a "hyperbolic" management style, as evidenced by the memo regarding a "crisis of design" between the company's products and the then-newly-released Apple iPhone. What was intended to put Samsung in a positive light became fodder for Apple counsel William Lee, who noted the comparisons being made between the two companies' products.

In the email, Samsung managers described the difference between their products and the iPhone as being "heaven and earth."

From the email:

Influential figures outside the company come across the iPhone, and they point out that ?Samsung is dozing off.' All this time we?ve been paying all our attention to Nokia, and concentrated our efforts on things like Folder, Bar, Slide, yet when our [product] is compared to the unexpected competitor Apple?s iPhone, the difference is truly that of Heaven and Earth. It?s a crisis of design.


A number of objections from Samsung were overruled as presiding Judge Lucy Koh said Denison's reference to the email in earlier testimony "opened the door" to Apple's questioning.

Lee asked if Denison could provide a similar document regarding a "crisis in design compared to Nokia," to which the Samsung exec said, "No, I can't."

Denison's testimony is a carry-over from Friday where internal Samsung documents revealed side-by-side comparisons of the company's Galaxy S to Apple's iPhone, as well as reports titled "Beat Apple response," "Recent Apple analysis project" and "iPhone 5 counter strategy," among others.
post #2 of 117

OOOPS !!!!

post #3 of 117

Translation: "Crap! We've been spending all of our time copying Nokia when we should've been copying Apple!" Stay classy Samsung. lol.gif

post #4 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
According to Denison, Samsung has a "hyperbolic" management style, as evidenced by the memo regarding a "crisis of design" between the company's products and the then-newly-released Apple iPhone. What was intended to put Samsung in a positive light became fodder for Apple counsel William Lee, who noted the comparisons being made between the two companies' products.
In the email, Samsung managers described the difference between their products and the iPhone as being "heaven and earth."
From the email:

All this time we?ve been paying all our attention to Nokia, and concentrated our efforts on things like Folder, Bar, Slide, yet when our [product] is compared to the unexpected competitor Apple?s iPhone, the difference is truly that of Heaven and Earth. It?s a crisis of design.

 

 

BOMBSHELL.

post #5 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

Translation: "Crap! We've been spending all of our time copying Nokia when we should've been copying Apple!" Stay classy Samsung. lol.gif

 

Yup. Samsung is one of the most crooked companies in tech. And when you are as shameless as they are, some hilarious (and very damaging) facts come tumbling out in the wash. 

post #6 of 117

It's truly baffling that this companies don't try copying the most important thing about Apple, especially when it's completely LEGAL! Copy Apple's actual goals! They spell them out constantly: make the best possible product for your target customer. That's actually what Apple does and it's not freaking magic!

post #7 of 117

too bad for them ... they did not destroy enough internal memos ....

post #8 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

It's truly baffling that this companies don't try copying the most important thing about Apple, especially when it's completely LEGAL! Copy Apple's actual goals! They spell them out constantly: make the best possible product for your target customer. That's actually what Apple does and it's not freaking magic!

 

Exactly. Well done.  :)

post #9 of 117
Do you deny that Samsung had a crisis of design when the iPhone shipped?? Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #10 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

Translation: "Crap! We've been spending all of our time copying Nokia when we should've been copying Apple!" Stay classy Samsung. lol.gif

LOL. Yeah, I know. I was like, did that Samsung guy just admit they were copying Nokia before Apple arrived on the scene?!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #11 of 117

Your honor it is not fair apple is cross examining our witness.  B O O  H O O!

post #12 of 117

Remember Samsung had the first iphone blocked in Korea for well over 2 years so they can catch up to Apple.  When the iphone finally got approved by their FCC, Samsung punished  the carrier that carried the iphone.

post #13 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Samsung Chief Strategy Officer Justin Denison continued his testimony by bringing out an internal memo meant to highlight the company's pride and competitive nature...

 


What a complete and utter failure of strategy.  If this is the best representation they have, they don't have much.
 

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Samsung's Ex-Chief Strategy Officer Justin Denison ...

 

There, correct as of tomorrow morning.

OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #14 of 117

Geez!

Too bad for Samsung. This proves what we thought all along, that Samsung is a copycat.

post #15 of 117

Funny thing is that Apple is going to fund their next 5 lawsuits with the funds received from Samsung...get ready Google, HTC, etc...  Apple's war chest is about to get $2.5B larger.

post #16 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

It's truly baffling that this companies don't try copying the most important thing about Apple, especially when it's completely LEGAL! Copy Apple's actual goals! They spell them out constantly: make the best possible product for your target customer. That's actually what Apple does and it's not freaking magic!

Easier said than done. Building a great product isn't the end of it, it has to have a great user experience plus be very functional in more than one area. The iPod and itunes had been around for quite a few years before the iPhone came out. Combining a iPod and a cell phone was sure to sell well, then the app store, adding more and more functionality with every iteration. That's gonna be a hard formula for someone to copy.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #17 of 117
This is amazing! Every day it just looks worse and worse for Samsung.

At this point, no matter how much you love your Samsung kit or hate Apple's business philosphies if you can't see that Samsung is in the wrong you are a bigoted anti-Appleite.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #18 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhunter View Post

Funny thing is that Apple is going to fund their next 5 lawsuits with the funds received from Samsung...get ready Google, HTC, etc...  Apple's war chest is about to get $2.5B larger.

Don't hold your breath for that $2.5B.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #19 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is amazing! Every day it just looks worse and worse for Samsung.
At this point, no matter how much you love your Samsung kit or hate Apple's business philosphies if you can't see that Samsung is in the wrong you are a bigoted anti-Appleite.

I'm not surprised at all, I'm sure there were "holy shit" memos sent through every manufacturer. The iPhone quickly became the iMonkeyWrench in all of their plans.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #20 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

It's truly baffling that this companies don't try copying the most important thing about Apple, especially when it's completely LEGAL! Copy Apple's actual goals! They spell them out constantly: make the best possible product for your target customer. That's actually what Apple does and it's not freaking magic!

Maybe part of Apple's success is their tightly integrated solution. Apple makes the hardware, software and controls the platform.

On the other hand... Samsung makes the hardware... but uses someone else's software, store and other services.

It works... but the result might not be the best possible product or user experience.

As others have said... Apple has many services that they roll into their products... iTunes and the App Store being a couple of the big ones.

If Apple's goal is to leverage all of their services into a great user experience... not many other companies can duplicate that.
post #21 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

too bad for them ... they did not destroy enough internal memos ....

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. If Samsung, let this one see the light of day, one wonders how damning the memos and e-mails that they destroyed were. Ouch!


Edited by Bilbo63 - 8/6/12 at 3:23pm
post #22 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is amazing! Every day it just looks worse and worse for Samsung.
At this point, no matter how much you love your Samsung kit or hate Apple's business philosphies if you can't see that Samsung is in the wrong you are a bigoted anti-Appleite.

 

This is not amazing but sad.  This only shows that Samsung saw a new competitor and that they had to change their design strategy

to better compete with the iPhone. They did just that and answered brilliantly with a superior design

that looked nothing like the iPhone but was a very unique, signature Samsung design.

 

This lawsuit is frivolous, without merit and Apple are the ones who now need to be innovative.

 

Signed

DaHarder

 

 

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #23 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A number of objections from Samsung were overruled as presiding Judge Lucy Koh said Denison's reference to the email in earlier testimony "opened the door" to Apple's questioning.

 

smooth move, ex-lax

post #24 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Do you deny that Samsung had a crisis of design when the iPhone shipped?? Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

 

I think Samsung execs consumed a rather generous amount of Romulan Ale when they engaged in this email exchange. 

post #25 of 117

6 months ago, I was a little pro-Samsung with this case. I admit that I side with Apple when it comes to complaints about similar UIs, packaging, and timing, but I think the "You can't make a rectangular phone! Only we can make a rectangular phone!" argument is bullcrap.

 

I've lost my sympathy for Samsung simply because they lie a lot. It doesn't take a second pair of eyes to see that Samsung rushed a bunch of iPhone clones into production in 2007-2008 to compete with Apple's iPhone, because that's what was popular at the time. Had they said "Yeah! We made a phone similar to the iPhone because that's what the majority of people wanted. The iPhone was popular. That's how competition works!" I would have more respect for them. They weren't honest, though. They said "iPhone? What iPhone? I've never heard of the iPhone. We designed this thing by ourselves from the ground up, and the fact that it's 95% similar looking to the iPhone, including the packaging, peripherals and marketing materials, is pure coincidence." Keep on stretching those lies, Samsung.

post #26 of 117
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Don't hold your breath for that $2.5B.

 

You're right. 

 

$25 billion.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #27 of 117

OMG...I can't stop laughing!

 
post #28 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

 

This is not amazing but sad.  This only shows that Samsung saw a new competitor and that they had to change their design strategy

to better compete with the iPhone. They did just that and answered brilliantly with a superior design

that looked nothing like the iPhone but was a very unique, signature Samsung design.

 

This lawsuit is frivolous, without merit and Apple are the ones who now need to be innovative.

 

Signed

DaHarder

 

 

 

Yeah, +1. Come on, Apple, innovate don't litigate!

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #29 of 117
Quote:
A number of objections from Samsung were overruled as presiding Judge Lucy Koh said Denison's reference to the email in earlier testimony "opened the door" to Apple's questioning.

 

I suppose even a top "law-speaking-dude" can't defend the indefensible. But what a stupid error this was.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #30 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

 

This is not amazing but sad.  This only shows that Samsung saw a new competitor and that they had to change their design strategy

to better compete with the iPhone. They did just that and answered brilliantly with a superior design

that looked nothing like the iPhone but was a very unique, signature Samsung design.

 

This lawsuit is frivolous, without merit and Apple are the ones who now need to be innovative.

 

Signed

Retarder

 

Fixed that for you.

 

 

For those that are curious:

 

barrel5.png

 

 

This is the barrel that Samsung is getting reamed over in court.

 

Bring out the Gimp.

post #31 of 117
Samsung: Your honour, in our defense, we would like to submit to the court that we don't just copy Apple. We've been copying people for years and since nobody else has had a problem with it, we feel Apple shouldn't either. Fact is, by copying Nokia, our products looked like junk compared to Apple so we had to throw out everything and do what Apple was doing as evidenced by the abrupt shift in our product designs. Hopefully this will prove to you that Apple in no way influenced... wait, which side am I on again? Sorry, I get so easily confused about which company I'm working for as I can't tell the products apart from a reasonable viewing distance.

Why on Heaven and Earth did they submit this evidence in their defense? Ah well, shouldn't be long until they wrap this case up and all Samsung's old products stay off the shelves.
post #32 of 117
Quote:

"Do you deny that Samsung had a crisis of design when the iPhone shipped??   Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!"

 

Originally Posted by ImperialForces View Post
 

 

I think Samsung execs consumed a rather generous amount of Romulan Ale when they engaged in this email exchange. 

 

 
Actually this dates back to Adlai Stevenson and the Cuban missile crisis... ;)
 
 
post #33 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

This is not amazing but sad.  This only shows that Samsung saw a new competitor and that they had to change their design strategy
to better compete with the iPhone. They did just that and answered brilliantly with a superior design
that looked nothing like the iPhone but was a very unique, signature Samsung design.
This lawsuit is frivolous, without merit and Apple are the ones who now need to be innovative.
Signed
DaHarder

LOL I read your reply in my email, which doesn't send the forum markup. It was all left-justified. I thought about how he used to center everything which go that feature removed from the forum, but knew it had come back with Huddler. I was going to "correct" your post and center in the classic stylings of DaH but you have crossed your o's and dotted your a's.*


* Scandinavia's version of dotting your i's and crossing your t's. 😷

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #34 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I'm not surprised at all, I'm sure there were "holy shit" memos sent through every manufacturer. The iPhone quickly became the iMonkeyWrench in all of their plans.

Exactly. This is the phone Palm announced just 2 days before Apple announced the iPhone.

They were just one of many manufacturers who had to find a new plan.

post #35 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Constance View Post

Remember Samsung had the first iphone blocked in Korea for well over 2 years so they can catch up to Apple.  When the iphone finally got approved by their FCC, Samsung punished  the carrier that carried the iphone.

 

I'm not familiar with this, though it sounds plausible. A google search is swamped by the current Apple v Samsung conflict. Do you have a link or two to get me started?

post #36 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

It's truly baffling that this companies don't try copying the most important thing about Apple, especially when it's completely LEGAL! Copy Apple's actual goals! They spell them out constantly: make the best possible product for your target customer. That's actually what Apple does and it's not freaking magic!

THIS.  THIS.  THIS.

 

It's 100% legal not to mention brilliant to copy Apple's GOAL of creating elegant simplicity for users of their products.  Most companies try to make hardware and software that is capable of doing things.  Apple creates hardware and software that give users the ability to do things.  The difference may sound tiny, but in reality, it's huge.

post #37 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

...but I think the "You can't make a rectangular phone! Only we can make a rectangular phone!" argument is bullcrap.

 

I would think that argument is bullcrap too.  Except I can't figure out who is actually making that particular argument.  It sounds more like the Strawman argument that Samsung has erected and attacked than it does like anything Apple actually said.

 

Thompson

post #38 of 117
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
1000

 

 

1000

 

 

"Absolutely nothing innovative. Just a natural progression of what all phones were doing at the time."

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #39 of 117
Trade dress claims are not about any one thing like shape - in fact they ignore size as well. A trade dress claim is an "and" claim, not an "or" claim. In this case, Apples trademark is: A rectangular mobile digital device with rounded corners AND rounded silver edges AND a black face AND an array of 16 square icons with rounded edges AND the top 12 icons appear on a black background AND the bottom four appear on a silver background AND [specified colours on the face] AND a number of other items regarding the screen, border, icons and trim.
 
Had Samsung done any one or two of them differently, Apple would not have had a case.
post #40 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Do you deny that Samsung had a crisis of design when the iPhone shipped?? Don't wait for the translation, answer me now!!

I think there's just a little less at stake than the Cuban Missle Crisis.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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