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Steve Jobs particularly irritated over Samsung's copying of iOS "rubber banding" effect

post #1 of 112
Thread Starter 
The "rubber band" effect you see on an iPhone or iPad when you attempt to scroll past the end of a document is something Apple co-founder Steve Jobs was quite proud of; and he repeatedly warned Samsung about copying it.

Depositions in the Apple vs. Samsung case from several months ago provide some color on the depths of Samsung's alleged infringement on Apple's designs, including a series of so-called 'utility patents' that serve up some of iOS's cachet.

They include a '163 patent relating to tapping to zoom, a '915 patent on the methods used to determine whether a user is scrolling with one or attempting to zoom into an area on the screen, and the '381 patent covering the rubber banding effect.

At some point, as Apple's Senior VP of?iOS?software Scott Forstall recalls, Jobs approached Samsung about the rubber banding effect his team was building into iOS and specifically requested that Korean electronics maker not tread on his turf.

"I don't remember specifics," Forstall testified. "I think it was just one of the things that Steve said, here's something we invented. Don't - don't copy it. Don't steal it."

Samsung, allegedly, paid no mind. And in July of 2010, when Jobs met with Samsung to discuss the mounting similarities in their mobile device designs, the rubber banding patent was a key point of contention, Forstall recalls:

Rubber banding is one of the sort of key things for the fluidity of the iPhone and - and all of?iOS, and so I know it was one of the ones that Steve really cared about.

I actually think that Android had not done rubber banding at some point and it was actually added later. So they actually went form sort of, you know, not yet copying and infringing to - to choosing to copy, which is sad and distasteful.

But I can't give you a specific recollection of - of Steve, you know, going over rubber banding with - with them in those meetings or not...

I expect it came up, because it's one of the key things we talked - you know, he and I talked about, but I don't know if it came up there.


According to court documents, Apple in November of that same year would approach Samsung with an offer to license the '381 patent. Again, Samsung didn't bite.


A demonstration of iOS's rubber band scrolling.


The documents also detail multiple efforts on Apple's part to avoid litigation with Samsung. For instance, the iPhone maker compiled a presentation titled 'Samsung's Use of Apple Patents in?Smartphones' that it presented during a meeting with the company in Korea. It followed up a few weeks later with "an electronic archive file containing?claim charts further illustrating?Samsung's infringement of Apple patents" -- material that was again used by Apple a few months later during a subsequent meeting in Cupertino.

As Forstall would recall, Jobs and Co. were quite livid over Samsung's imitation by the time that later meeting rolled around:

Well, so I - I think, in general, what Steve did in these meetings was just talk through. There's a set of things we've done, which you're copying, and those - those things, you know are - and I think a lot of different things were discussed.

Now, I can't give you specific recollections of - of what - you know, I can't precisely say this is - was what was discussed at this meeting and guarantee it. I know like the design of icons with the rounded recs was something that we cared about because it - it - it looked uniquely ours, and we didn't want other people to go and copy that design, because it would confuse users as to what's, you know, an iPhone versus what's one of these copy phones.

So - but I don't remember specifically even if in one of these things if - if the icon appearance was discussed.. icon design was discussed.

I do know that there were specific icons that were discussed where they absolutely ripped us off, and these were - some of those were extreme. One was in merging calls.

post #2 of 112

And here come the trolls, copying and pasting their posts from all the other sites where this article has been posted.

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post #3 of 112

Here's to hoping Samsung get's the hammer dropped on its head.  

post #4 of 112

Pinch to zoom, double-tap to zoom web browsing, rubber band, etc: These software features are really what will set the iOS user experience apart from others and I hope Apple wins them.

 

The exterior design, despite the side by side comparisons, aren't as strong of a case.

post #5 of 112

Samsung, allegedly, paid no mind.

 

 

 

They do that a lot. Replace "allegedly" with "obviously."

post #6 of 112

I hate samsung.

post #7 of 112
Originally Posted by allmypeople View Post
Pinch to zoom, double-tap to zoom web browsing, rubber band, etc: These software features are really what will set the iOS user experience apart from others…

 

"But they're all fundamental to the touchscreen experience! You can't have a touchscreen without them! Apple can't patent or protect something so obvious! Monopoly! Anti-trust! Rectangle!"

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post #8 of 112

well thats is what this trial is going to decide not one person's opinion like you, which is irrelevent

post #9 of 112
All those features were invented by Apple and Steve was right to be angry that Samsung stole his patents and profited from them. Let's hope Samsung gets fined and banned. And taken to the woods and shot.

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post #10 of 112

Samsung should lose to set an example.

post #11 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA47 View Post

I hate samsung.

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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #12 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"But they're all fundamental to the touchscreen experience! You can't have a touchscreen without them! Apple can't patent or protect something so obvious! Monopoly! Anti-trust! Rectangle!"

Did you saw this or used this feature before iPhone? If not then its also not obvious..

post #13 of 112

I for one am never going to buy anything from Samsung, which is my right. I will also do my utmost to trash Samsung's name and reputation ever chance I get in stores online and so on.

 

SAMSUNG-= SAME SONG,

 

lets starts a campaign to think up silly stupid same sounding derogatory names for "Samesong"

post #14 of 112

That "rubber banding" effect was included on list scrolling on an ion implanter a company I was working on produced in 2004.  If you tried to scroll past the end of the list, it bounced and came back again.

 

It's worth noting, that I installed 2 of them into a Samsung fab in January of 2005.......

 

Obviously that wasn't on a phone, but the idea is basically identical and was out there before the iPhone.

post #15 of 112

here's two  SAMTURD, TURDSUNG..... in the tradition of Microsux etc

post #16 of 112

I'm not sure I agree with you, I bought the original iPhone and used it for years until getting the 4s so I am quite familiar with its appearance. However reading about this trial and looking at the images of these phones both the iPhone and whatever Samsung did I have to take a few seconds to make sure I know which product I am actually looking at. If you live in a place where the iPhone was not available but had seen ads on TV then went shopping you could be convinced you were getting the same product or a variation on the iPhone. I believe Apple has a strong case here. They have been aware of Samsung's disregard of obvious Apple patents for years and in turn has documented everything just in case a suit was the only way to stop them. The weakest part will be the jury. Will they understand the effort Apple's designers and engineers made not to mention the investment and ultimately future health of Apple as a company in a what we now realize was a major shift in computing towards mobility. The fact that several other companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and Blackberry make smart phones that do not rely on the UI and form of the iPhone shows Samsung could have avoided this lawsuit by creating a unique product. 

post #17 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"But they're all fundamental to the touchscreen experience! You can't have a touchscreen without them! Apple can't patent or protect something so obvious! Monopoly! Anti-trust! Rectangle!"

I know you're being sarcastic, but in the case of how Apple created navigation and interface protocols, they weren't obvious or even on Samsung's radar before the iPhone. Perhaps one can create a software methodology that---in effect, provides the same user experience. And in that sense, have a work-around? Patent law is like a chess game, or in Patent Speak: "Claims is the name of the game".

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post #18 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"But they're all fundamental to the touchscreen experience! You can't have a touchscreen without them! Apple can't patent or protect something so obvious! Monopoly! Anti-trust! Rectangle!"

Is it sarcasm? than a bad one.

Or ore you just too young? to remember that there were touchscreen devices at least 5-7 years before iPhone was introduced.

post #19 of 112

Funny, I read the title and somehow thought that Samsung copied the requirement to put a rubber band around your phone to enable it to make calls.

post #20 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by eakf View Post

Funny, I read the title and somehow thought that Samsung copied the requirement to put a rubber band around your phone to enable it to make calls.

You have a reading comprehension problem. Thanks for playing. Good Bye.

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post #21 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

 The fact that several other companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and Blackberry make smart phones that do not rely on the UI and form of the iPhone shows Samsung could have avoided this lawsuit by creating a unique product. 

One of the better points I've ever read on this site over the years.

post #22 of 112
Originally Posted by eakf View Post
Funny, I read the title and somehow thought that Samsung copied the requirement to put a rubber band around your phone to enable it to make calls.

 

Jetz, why'd you make a second account just to post this trolling, lying, long-disproven argument?

 

If you have something to say, use your proper account.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 8/7/12 at 10:37am

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post #23 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker275 View Post

One of the better points I've ever read on this site over the years.

 

You're kidding right?

 

"...companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and Blackberry..." these are companies FAILING to compete with the iPhone. That exactly shows why you have to copy the UI of the iPhone to compete, because if you don't copy, you end up being those companies.

post #24 of 112

I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but Apple did NOT invent rubber-banding on cellphones.

 

400

post #25 of 112

I like to call them "shamesung"

post #26 of 112

I wasn't going to buy a Galaxy S a few years ago, but after I saw it had rubber banding, I had to buy one.

post #27 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post

I for one am never going to buy anything from Samsung, which is my right. I will also do my utmost to trash Samsung's name and reputation ever chance I get in stores online and so on.

 

SAMSUNG-= SAME SONG,

 

lets starts a campaign to think up silly stupid same sounding derogatory names for "Samesong"

Scamsung?

Shamsung?

Scamalong?

Scamwrong?

NoDong?

post #28 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

You're kidding right?

"...companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and Blackberry..." these are companies FAILING to compete with the iPhone. That exactly shows why you have to copy the UI of the iPhone to compete, because if you don't copy, you end up being those companies.

Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM, camera of equal or better quality, replaceable batteries on the go, NFC capability, picture in picture video, actual multi-tasking, the original notification center and banners, ability to access your file system, ability to use wireless keyboards AND mice, faster web browsing, ability to attach any type of file to an email, etc...I could go on and on.

You think maybe, just maybe, features like these might have something to do with Samsung's success over say the look of an icon or a rubber banding effect? Why are Nokia and RIM phones fowling their companies. Because they are slow, lack many features and more importantly, don't run Android or iOS. People choose not to buy phones like that.
post #29 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorman. View Post

Is it sarcasm? than a bad one.

Or ore you just too young? to remember that there were touchscreen devices at least 5-7 years before iPhone was introduced.


Yes it is sarcasm (he also used quotes). Also, I've seen him do this several times in other posts. I like it though!

post #30 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post


Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM, camera of equal or better quality, replaceable batteries on the go, NFC capability, picture in picture video, actual multi-tasking, the original notification center and banners, ability to access your file system, ability to use wireless keyboards AND mice, faster web browsing, ability to attach any type of file to an email, etc...I could go on and on.
You think maybe, just maybe, features like these might have something to do with Samsung's success over say the look of an icon or a rubber banding effect? Why are Nokia and RIM phones fowling their companies. Because they are slow, lack many features and more importantly, don't run Android or iOS. People choose not to buy phones like that.

 

I love many of the examples you give.  I haven't a clue how fast the CPU is in my phone, or how much RAM there is, or whether it has "actual" multi-tasking (whatever that is), much less do I care.

 

I'm a normal consumer, not someone who gets a hard on over how many MHz something can go at.


What I do notice though, is that Samsungs stuff looks like it's been hugely copied from Apple.

post #31 of 112

The rubber banding is cool but is there a way to disable it?

post #32 of 112

Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

You're kidding right?

"...companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and Blackberry..." these are companies FAILING to compete with the iPhone. That exactly shows why you have to copy the UI of the iPhone to compete, because if you don't copy, you end up being those companies.

 

Well then it's simple - DON'T COPY, or if you do then PAY!

 

I like Google's tactics though, they want Apple to make these FRAND, funny!

post #33 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM, camera of equal or better quality, replaceable batteries on the go, NFC capability, picture in picture video, actual multi-tasking, the original notification center and banners, ability to access your file system, ability to use wireless keyboards AND mice, faster web browsing, ability to attach any type of file to an email, etc...I could go on and on.
You think maybe, just maybe, features like these might have something to do with Samsung's success over say the look of an icon or a rubber banding effect? Why are Nokia and RIM phones fowling their companies. Because they are slow, lack many features and more importantly, don't run Android or iOS. People choose not to buy phones like that.

Specs.

Specs.

SPECS.
post #34 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM, camera of equal or better quality, replaceable batteries on the go, NFC capability, picture in picture video, actual multi-tasking, the original notification center and banners, ability to access your file system, ability to use wireless keyboards AND mice, faster web browsing, ability to attach any type of file to an email, etc...I could go on and on.
You think maybe, just maybe, features like these might have something to do with Samsung's success over say the look of an icon or a rubber banding effect? Why are Nokia and RIM phones fowling their companies. Because they are slow, lack many features and more importantly, don't run Android or iOS. People choose not to buy phones like that.

Only one problem with that logic. If Samsung really believes that their products are significantly better than Apple's, why would they make so much effort to copy Apple? They even went to the trouble of making a bunch of prototypes and then choosing the one that looked most like the iPhone. If Samsung's phone were really superior, they'd want to differentiate it and make it clear that it wasn't an iPhone. So Samsung's own actions suggest that they're not convinced that their phone is better in the things that matter.
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post #35 of 112

I love coming in here and reading the comments these days.  Most of you people have no lives.  You come here every day to say how much you hate samsung when you could actually be doing something worth while with your lives.  It is not like any of this is could be important to most of you...it is a stupid cell phone.  Why do you care that a company might have mimicked the iPhone?  Any of you guys losing money over the deal?  I doubt it.  

Let the people that actually built the thing worry about it.

 

 

...and I own a iPhone4 and a 2011 MBP, so I am not a troll. 

post #36 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post


Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM, camera of equal or better quality, replaceable batteries on the go, NFC capability, picture in picture video, actual multi-tasking, the original notification center and banners, ability to access your file system, ability to use wireless keyboards AND mice, faster web browsing, ability to attach any type of file to an email, etc...I could go on and on.
You think maybe, just maybe, features like these might have something to do with Samsung's success over say the look of an icon or a rubber banding effect? Why are Nokia and RIM phones fowling their companies. Because they are slow, lack many features and more importantly, don't run Android or iOS. People choose not to buy phones like that.

 

95% of people don't give a shit about a single thing you mentioned. Amount of RAM? GPU? Never in my life have I met anyone wanting replaceable batteries. NFC? What have been the applications for NFC thus far? How many people use it? You actually think its a selling point? 'Actual' multitasking. LOL. The 'original' notification center. Yeah, when people go buy a phone I'm sure they ask if it has the 'original' notification center. File system access? Yes, clearly so much in demand on a phone. Wireless keyboards and mice? Mice? You're really knocking it out of the park today. Total people I've seen using KB/mouse with their phones in my life...0. But I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

 

Yeah, you could go 'on and on' and all the items would be just as irrelevant to he buying decision of the vast majority of people. Be as sarcastic as you want, but yes, rubber banding and icons trump all these things, because those and a million other details combine to create a user experience, which is the most critical thing on a phone- and not removable batteries, wireless mice, or any of the other crap you mentioned. For tech geeks on message boards? Maybe. But they're an irrelevant and insignificant part of the consumer public, don't let the internet distort whats actually important for real people. And if you actually dealt with large numbers of real-life people on a daily basis to see how they use their phones, you would have figured this out long ago. 

post #37 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssls6 View Post

I like to call them "shamesung"

How about Copple? Crapple? The blantant copying for Apple started in iOS 5. iMessage, tabbed browsing, Notification Center, split keyboard, wireless syncing... all amazing and new (unless you had been using Android for years.)

Now iOS6 will get turn by turn navigation and 3d views of cities. So amazing and new (unless you have used Google's Navigation, maps or Earth.) and Oh my god!, I can decline a call with a message now! Revolutionary, (unless you have been using Android for the last few years.) A VIP list in email now too. No way, that has to be new. Nope, been with GMail for a while. Wait, what about saving Safari tabs and favs in the cloud? That's a new feature, right? Nope. Chrome, Maxthone, Firefox all have this.

The sheer amount of copying done by Apple is amazing. It's actually turning iOS into Android, since so many Android features have been stolen. And I didn't even get into the parts Apple stole from Microsoft. Hello lockscreen apps.
post #38 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewGavin View Post

I love coming in here and reading the comments these days.  Most of you people have no lives.  You come here every day to say how much you hate samsung when you could actually be doing something worth while with your lives.  It is not like any of this is could be important to most of you...it is a stupid cell phone.  Why do you care that a company might have mimicked the iPhone?  Any of you guys losing money over the deal?  I doubt it.  

Let the people that actually built the thing worry about it.

 

 

...and I own a iPhone4 and a 2011 MBP, so I am not a troll. 

 

As opposed to you, someone who enters a thread about a subject he allegedly doesn't care about, to post how everyone has no lives. And you 'love coming in here and reading the comments'-  you you admittedly spend time here on a consistent basis - quite the life you seem to have. But unlike you, people here actually post something interesting/worth reading. And yes, you can be a troll regardless of what hardware you own. 

post #39 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post


Or maybe if you have a phone with a faster cpu, better gpu, 4 times the amount of RAM...

 

What's sad is up until Android 4.1, those phones REQUIRED those things in order to get the same smooth UI that Apple produced in the original iPhone.

post #40 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And here come the trolls, copying and pasting their posts from all the other sites where this article has been posted.

being a global moderator and all, is this the official appleinsider position?
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