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Judge says Samsung's accusations that Apple doctored evidence "not credible"

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
Samsung objected to a photo of the Epic Touch 4G Apple presented as evidence of design infringement this morning, claiming the image was altered to look more like the iPhone. But Judge Koh overruled the objection, stating that Samsung's claim lacked credibility.

The image at issue depicted the Samsung phone with an icon layout very similar to the iPhone's, which Samsung objected to, stating that the device does not look like that out of the box.

Samsung then presented its own image with a different on-screen appearance, saying it had taken the photo on Sunday to represent what the phone looks like right out of the packaging.

stock device photo from Samsung manual


However, Judge Koh took issue with Samsung's photo, noting that it lacked features Samsung said were present on its phones out of the box, including the Google search widget.

"Why does your homescreen not show the Google search box when you're telling me the phone has the Google search box," the judge asked Samsung's legal team, according to a report by the Verge.

She then pointed out that the photo depicted yesterday's date, prompting Samsung's attorney to admit that the photo had not been taken the day he had earlier stated.

Doctor of evidence

"There has been no manipulation," Apple's attorney Michael Jacobs stated,. "We've been rigorous about that."

When asked if Apple had changed the phone's icon layout or had otherwise tampered with the device to make it look more like its own products, Jacobs answered, "no."

"I find it not credible that Apple tampered with these phones," Judge Koh stated in overruling Samsung's objection.

"I'm not going to have this happen again," she said, insisting that both parties come to agreement in advance the images they will present.

Late last week, Apple identified several examples of exhibits created by Samsung that that the company described as "misleading."

Apple said Samsung had altered depictions of its "accused devices" to "remove the screen, which may distract the jury from the asserted design," added graphics "that obscure portions of the accused devices, distracting from the overall impression of the accused designs," used images that "are not to scale or are misleadingly scaled," and "only show partial views of the asserted designs and trade dress."

Samsung earlier insinuated Apple had "reportedly doctored evidence," alluding to accusations made by an Android enthusiast blogger regarding a separate case between the two companies in Germany. That issue alleged that Apple had intentionally modified the aspect ratios of graphics to make the Galaxy Tab look closer to the iPad.
post #2 of 50

"Here at Samsung, we will say and do anything to be allowed to copy anything we want.  After all, it is our world. "

 

Just a thought. 

post #3 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

Has there ever been a more biased "judge" than this dirty bitch koh?

 

Clearly, this case should be handled by an international court.

 

No matter what the outcome (probably a "victory" by Applekoh), deep inside the isheep know that with the death of Jobs, Applekoh lost whatever limited potential they had to "innovate". This is why they are so angry. 

Right. Because Jobs was the only person inside Apple with any creativity and forethought. And just maybe if Samsung wouldn't keep pulling this crap (such as destroying email evidence etc) the judge might not be so "Biased" towards Apple.

post #4 of 50

The reporters who are in the court room really needs to do a better job of describing things as to be less confusing of what exactly was going on.

 

In the 1st paragraph from theverge it says Samsung claims they took the picture last night. Later says they claim it they took it sunday but photo shows yesterday's date and lawyer misspoke on day of the week.

 

Exactly which is it?

 

Was is it during a barrage of back and forth they mixed of Sunday and Monday night?

post #5 of 50

Wasn't there some instance where Apple showed their device next to Samsung's, but they altered the overall size of the Samsung device to make the heights exactly the same?  Not saying they did this in this case, but they're not totally innocent.

 

Edit: nevermind, they apparently actually changed the dimensions

 

700

post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

Has there ever been a more biased "judge" than this dirty bitch koh?

 

Clearly, this case should be handled by an international court.

 

No matter what the outcome (probably a "victory" by Applekoh), deep inside the isheep know that with the death of Jobs, Applekoh lost whatever limited potential they had to "innovate". This is why they are so angry. 

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
However, Judge Koh took issue with Samsung's photo, noting that it lacked features Samsung said were present on its phones out of the box, including the Google search widget.
"Why does your homescreen not show the Google search box when you're telling me the phone has the Google search box," the judge asked Samsung's legal team, according to a report by the Verge.
She then pointed out that the photo depicted yesterday's date, prompting Samsung's attorney to admit that the photo had not been taken the day he had earlier stated.

 

Seems pretty clear: Samsung can't be trusted. To put it very, very mildly, Koh caught Sammy in a little fib.

post #7 of 50

I get the sense that Samsung is not confident that they can win the case on its actual merits. They want to create a circus and then PR can spin their loss as being “unfair” in some way.

post #8 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I get the sense that Samsung is not confident that they can win the case on its actual merits. They want to create a circus and then PR can spin their loss as being “unfair” in some way.

 

No kidding.

With a judge like that, what chances do they have?

This is why an international court should handle this case.

post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

@ 2pm,   Samsung still paying people to troll for them???   Maybe someone who totally hates Apple would be a more fair judge???

 

Just asking. 

 

Someone who is not racially and nationally biased, someone who does not own Applekoh stock would be a more fair judge.

This needs to go to an international court. Maybe the country of South Korea needs to get involved?

post #10 of 50
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post
With a judge like that, what chances do they have?

 

With truth like this, what chance do they have?

 

Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post
Someone who is not racially and nationally biased, someone who does not own Applekoh stock would be a more fair judge.

This needs to go to an international court. Maybe the country of South Korea needs to get involved?

 

It's not an international lawsuit. Therefore that statement does not apply at all. She has no racial or national bias. She's an American judge of Korean descent. That's as unbiased as this case could possibly get.

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post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Wasn't there some instance where Apple showed their device next to Samsung's, but they altered the overall size of the Samsung device to make the heights exactly the same?  Not saying they did this in this case, but they're not totally innocent.

 

Edit: nevermind, they apparently actually changed the dimensions

 

700

 

This is a well known case.

But, apparently US companies are above the law.

But with the shrinking influence and power of US, this might change sooner or later. 

post #12 of 50

International Court?

 

This is a US case, why should an international court rule on it?

 

This case is proceeding in numerous countries with non-american judges as your liking, and, probably to your disbelief, Apple has been winning some of these. Just stop complaining over and over that this is not in an international court, it is unfolding outside the US also. Google it.

post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It's not an international lawsuit. Therefore that statement does not apply at all. 

 

It is a US company vs. a South Korean company. Sounds international to me. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

She has no racial or national bias. She's an American judge of Korean descent. That's as unbiased as this case could possibly get.

 

Ever heard of people who hate their own race or racial background? It is not uncommon.

post #14 of 50
Can people please stop quoting trolls like this? It is easy enough to block them, but quoting defeats the benefit.
post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post

"Here at Samsung, we will say and do anything to be allowed to copy anything we want.  After all, it is our world. "

 

Just a thought. 

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - Steve Jobs

post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

 

Clearly, this case should be handled by an international court.

 

Right!  Because THAT is where you will find true fairness and justice!  Give me a break.

/

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post #17 of 50
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - Steve Jobs

 

"We have always been oblivious to the proper way to use that quote."

 

—the Anti-Apple Brigade

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post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

With truth like this, what chance do they have?


It's not an international lawsuit. Therefore that statement does not apply at all. She has no racial or national bias. She's an American judge of Korean descent. That's as unbiased as this case could possibly get.

well, based on trials held in Neherland, Germany, Australia, only one court in Germany found Samsung violating "unfair competition" law there, but they found no design infringement. So I think Samsung's chance is pretty good. Samsung will probably have to appeal given Apple's home advantage.
post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EUAPPL View Post

So according to you, germans is a little dubious when it comes to racism. Are all germans a little dubious when it comes to racism, or is this statement a little biased? And why is it that germans has such a flaw as being dubious when it comes to racism - is it because of the culture, their genes, their language or what?

Because of their past, obviously.

post #20 of 50
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post
Because of their past, obviously.


Congrats. Today I've received far and away more reports from both our spam catcher and other users than on any other single day prior. 

I congratulate you because it's your fault. Your prize will be mailed to you in 4-6 weeks, give or take 4-6 weeks.

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post #21 of 50

Samsung will get the 'home court advantage' when Apple tries to sue Samsung in Korea.

 

Fair or not, if Samsung wants to take over the US market, then yes the US court will be the one judging. International court is still biased (depending on the judge). I mean, Google beat Oracle partly because of a biased judge, Apple lost another case because of a biased judge. All I can say is - life has never been fair, deal with it.

post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

She then pointed out that the photo depicted yesterday's date, prompting Samsung's attorney to admit that the photo had not been taken the day he had earlier stated.

Congratulations, Samsung. Once again, you can't be bothered to pay attention to little details like honesty.

How many more times do they have to lie before they're fined for contempt of court?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

No kidding.
With a judge like that, what chances do they have?
This is why an international court should handle this case.

Still waiting for you to explain why an international court would adjudicate a U.S. patent issue. Why should we give up our sovereignty to make mindless little trolls happy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - Steve Jobs

Oh, gee. Yet another person who doesn't understand the difference between 'idea' and patented execution.

Hint: ideas can not be patented and can not be protected. Execution can (and is).
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Why hasn't TwoPM been banned yet? This is at least the second time I've seen today him posting hateful tripe about a sitting Judge. I mean there's respectful disagreement of opinion, there's the ability to provide demonstrable facts of bias, and then there are his inflammatory, vulgar, name-calling posts with nothing to back them up but hateful opinion.

Just a question, that's all.

Agreed. He should have been banned a long time ago. Too bad AI doesn't simply ban the entire string if IP addresses where trolls like this reside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think the guy must be drunk or clueless (or both).

Or paid.
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post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

Because of their past, obviously.

 

Let's leave your racism aside for the moment, and talk about the only past and present that really matter here:

 

http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/3028/samsung-power-corruption-and-lies/

 

And I trust I don't need to keep re-posting this in its entirety:

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151659/samsung-takes-excluded-evidence-to-the-media-gets-reprimanded/40#post_2158987

 

Apple is essentially dealing with criminals. Everyone already knew they're LIARS, and today Koh confirmed it, which is one of the central points of the article we're all posting about. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas" - Steve Jobs

 

Apparently Apple patented them all, and are arguing their case based on those patents. 

 

So in this case, "theft" in every legal sense, isn't possible. 

post #25 of 50

international arbitration is probably not an option as the parties never agreed to such terms, and apple has no incentive to do so at this moment when they have some sorts of "home advantage" from the US courts.

 

however, if US judges have guts, they should invalidate more frivolous 'patents' (I feel ashamed to call a design like this as a patent) as the Korean IP Office strongly does (their invalidation rate is about 70-80% whenever an invalidation claim is filed).

 

also, Koh is probably biased as of now, but not necessarily because she's a bad judge but because Samsung has handled the case rather poorly (mainly for delay in responding to discovery requests/producing documents/filing evidence).

 

Quinn should prepare more coherent arguments.  Many of Samsung's arguments are weak and jab-like on side issues.  But that's probably the best they can do at this moment when their critical evidence is not admitted to the court.

 

anyways, this case in the end will help Samsung more than it hurts.  The free marketing benefits from being sued and fought by Apple itself just makes the brand image of Samsung as someone that is rivalry/threat to Apple.  At the end of the day, what really matters is the damages awarded and the damages that the jury in this case would award will be unlikely to be too high given that "a vast majority" of people believe that the injury to Apple isn't that severe even if Samsung has infringed on the Apple's 'patents.'  And many courts around the globe already found that Samsung did not infringe on the said 'patents.'


Edited by Loptimist - 8/7/12 at 4:10pm
post #26 of 50

Well at least we don't have to worry about this.  Samsung is winning the trial for Apple just by being in the courtroom.

post #27 of 50

You have yet to show any circumstance in which the judge has shown bias.

 

Samsung lied, gets called on their lie, and the JUDGE is biased? What exactly are you smoking?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

 

No kidding.

With a judge like that, what chances do they have?

This is why an international court should handle this case.

post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPM View Post

 

As a retaliation, South Korea should not only ban all Applekoh products, but any US product.

Yes good idea. And then maybe the U.S. can take its troops out of your country and stop giving it support and you can be taken over by the nutters in Nth Korea. How would that be? 

 

Sth Korean gratitude: you help us and help us and help us and in response we steal from you and lie about you. 

 

I know many Koreans and they are lovely people one on one. But as a culture and as a national-criminal enterprise they are in sore need of a reality-check.

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post #29 of 50
Dang, this judge throws out any evidence that might show Apple in a bad light. Amazing. Looking more and more like a biased judge.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Yes good idea. And then maybe the U.S. can take its troops out of your country and stop giving it support and you can be taken over by the nutters in Nth Korea. How would that be? 

Sth Korean gratitude: you help us and help us and help us and in response we steal from you and lie about you. 

I know many Koreans and they are lovely people one on one. But as a culture and as a national-criminal enterprise they are in sore need of a reality-check.
Exactly my thoughts. Leave the neighborhood and tell the North, "You know that disagreement we had, we changed our mind, we won't be getting in your way anymore."

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post #31 of 50
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post
Dang, this judge throws out any evidence that might show Apple in a bad light. Amazing. Looking more and more like a biased judge.

 

I don't get what you trolls' collective problem is.

 

Whatever the outcome, the loser is going to appeal. This is 100% confirmed. I mean, really, you know?

 

It'd be great if the accusations of bias from both sides and to both sides just cut out entirely, because the only accusations thereof that matter are Apple's or Samsung's when the trial is over. Since we don't know those yet, can we just watch the trial play out?

I mean, yeah, argue about absolutely every other aspect of the trial, but the one thing that is completely meaningless is personal perception of bias.

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post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufwa View Post

The reporters who are in the court room really needs to do a better job of describing things as to be less confusing of what exactly was going on.

 

In the 1st paragraph from theverge it says Samsung claims they took the picture last night. Later says they claim it they took it sunday but photo shows yesterday's date and lawyer misspoke on day of the week.

 

Exactly which is it?

 

Was is it during a barrage of back and forth they mixed of Sunday and Monday night?

It doesn't matter. The point is, Samsung said they took the picture at a time that was not corroborated by the actual photo. What buffoons to lie about when the picture was taken when that time and date are on the phone for all to see.

 

Brilliant!!!

post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Can people please stop quoting trolls like this? It is easy enough to block them, but quoting defeats the benefit.

You are correct and I should not have fed a troll. His comments felt bigoted and I wished to draw him/her/it out. Amazing that there were similarly ignorant yet few that were saying just last week that Koh had it out for Apple because of her name.

I am ashamed to be an Internetan.
post #34 of 50

SAMSUNG

The thieving magpies of the electronics world.

 

SAMSUNG as a company has developed world class parts production, almost as good as the Chinese. But that is what they make... parts, with the occasional knock-off product. Sub-contractors always seem to think they invented everything and are responsible for the product's success. They would be a great manufacturing partner but they are just such clueless corporate dorks. SAMSUNG explaining and defending their corporate ways in front of a judge is profoundly embarrassing to everyone watching (with the exception of the Korean diaspora trolls). lol.gif

post #35 of 50
Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post
I am ashamed to be an Internetan.

 

Oh gosh, people in the future are going to claim they're 'citizens of the Internet' and therefore exempt from the laws of the country in which they reside, aren't they?

Sorry for the aside; I just thought of that… 

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post #36 of 50

My block list is growing by leaps and bounds since the Apple/Samsung trial started.

 

If I had a dollar for every one.....no wait, I have a better idea. If I could grow my d&*k by only 1mm for every blocked troll I'd make Ron Jeremy look like a Gherkin.

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post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Oh gosh, people in the future are going to claim they're 'citizens of the Internet' and therefore exempt from the laws of the country in which they reside, aren't they?


Sorry for the aside; I just thought of that… 

I shoulda framed that with a /s.
post #38 of 50

If SAMSUNG intends to continue making their Copy Pad...

they should focus on making one that actually works well, not making one that LOOKS like one that works well.   

 

Samsung's Galaxy Tab study, which was conducted in 30 Best Buy stores across New York, Los Angeles and Florida, revealed 25 percent of returns were due to malfunctioning hardware while 9 percent exchanged the device for an iPad 2. The hardware troubles amounted to system freezes, touch screen malfunctions and poor Wi-Fi performance. An additional 17 percent said screen lagging, short battery life and syncing issues were to blame for the return. Other issues included difficulty operating Google's Android OS and the device's app selection.

 

 

700

post #39 of 50

This story has been so entertaining!  The Samsung legal team are getting their butt kicked in court -- "oh, Your Honor, I guess the date on the phone DOES show the picture was taken on a different day than we said it was."  The TOTALLY amazing thing about that incident is that NO ONE COULD HAVE SEEN IT COMING!   You mean the judge looks at the exhibits?  Oops!

 

Too bad so much of the post-story commentary has been about bozo-bird's racist comments -- the story is still an object lesson in spite of all that.  

post #40 of 50

Breaking News!

 

Samsung to sue Samsung!

 

A Samsung spokesman was quoted today as saying that Samsung would be filing suit against Samsung in every court in the world, including food courts. "Anything Apple can do we can do better. We make everything they do but we do it better — this is true innovation. Anyone can invent something. but making that thing just tiny bit better take superior Korean know-how. Apple sueing Samsung all over the place and losing — we will sue Samsung in every place in the world and win! I mean look at their products — they are exactly like ours! They are identical! I mean they are more like our products than even they are like Apple's — and that is saying something! We were bowled over when we saw them — but, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised as they are Korean company and so they have patent on copying product that is recognised world over. They are the best at this — true innovation. But we have that patent first and so we will sue them." The spokesman went on to say that Samsung had improved even on the delicacy of Apple's iPhones. "They make them delicate — we make them truly breakable; Apple claim to be in right, we claim to be righter. But Samsung have gone too far — I cannot tell their product from ours even with the lights off." The Samsung representative also said that for this fight — the greatest fight that they have ever undertaken — Samsung would even hire Apple's lawyers. "Because lets face it: ours are crap."

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