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More Galaxy Tabs returned due to malfunction than mistaken identity

post #1 of 60
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An Apple v. Samsung court document filed on Monday shows more Best Buy customers returned Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1 due to hardware malfunctions than mistaking the device for Apple's iPad.

The data comes from a Samsung survey taken in 2011 which examined the reasons Best Buy customers were returning the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Apple previously pointed out customers returned the Samsung tablet because they thought it was an iPad 2, however the actual numbers reveal malfunctions played a much larger role.

Samsung's Galaxy Tab study, which was conducted in 30 Best Buy stores across New York, Los Angeles and Florida, revealed 25 percent of returns were due to malfunctioning hardware while only 9 percent exchanged the device for an iPad 2. The hardware troubles amounted to system freezes, touch screen malfunctions and poor Wi-Fi performance. An additional 17 percent said screen lagging, short battery life and syncing issues were to blame for the return. Other issues included difficulty operating Google's Android OS and the device's app selection.

Apple contends that Samsung copied the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad, and was looking to prove the point by using data from the South Korean company's study.

Bressler Testimony


The two companies are embroiled in a high-stakes patent trial which is in its fifth day of proceedings at the Northern California U.S. District Court. Industrial designer Peter Bressler, Apple's first expert witness, took the stand on Monday and said Samsung's designs were "substantially the same" as Apple's iPhone and iPad patents. In cross-examination, however, Bressler appeared agitated by questions regarding the minutiae of Samsung's smartphone designs, and at one point said, ""you're asking me to compare peanut butter and turkey." The design expert contends design patents should be studied as a whole, not by separating them into small parts.

Apple v. Samsung continues today with testimony from original Mac graphic designer Susan Kare and chair of the Department of Marketing at New York University's Stern School of Business Russell Winer.
post #2 of 60
The hardware troubles amounted to system freezes, touch screen malfunctions and poor Wi-Fi performance. An additional 17 percent said screen lagging, short battery life and syncing issues were to blame for the return. Other issues included difficulty operating Google's Android OS and the device's app selection.

 

9% exchanged because they thought it was an iPad, but 25% exchanged because they just wanted an iPad instead.

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post #3 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

9% exchanged because they thought it was an iPad, but 25% exchanged because they just wanted an iPad instead.

That must have been a painful choice for Sammy to make ... Claiming the returns are not mistakes but because of lousy build ... Love it!
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post #4 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

9% exchanged because they thought it was an iPad, but 25% exchanged because they just wanted an iPad instead.

Makes sense to me:  "This friggin' thing is malfunctioning!  It's not functioning like an iPad!" 

post #5 of 60

So 9% of Galaxy Tab purchasers are too dumb to read the name on the box and thought it was an iPad 2...what percentage thought it was a fish bowl, sleeping bag or scuba mask???  Actually, the article states that 9% returned their tablet and got an iPad 2 instead.  The others  most likely got a replacement Galaxy Tab.  There was nothing to do with "mistaken identity."

 

A more informative article would tell us what percentage of Galaxy Tabs were returned as a whole.  Then we could extrapolate why each was returned.

post #6 of 60

But Best Buy still reported that as being a reason, right?

 

Do we know the actual questions/wording from this survey? Is it a survey that would truly get at that particular question of “thought it was an iPad”? Or would the questions lead people in a different direction? What % chose the option “thought it was an iPad”... or was that simply not one of the choices?

post #7 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

So 9% of Galaxy Tab purchasers are too dumb to read the name on the box and thought it was an iPad 2...what percentage thought it was a fish bowl, sleeping bag or scuba mask???  Actually, the article states that 9% returned their tablet and got an iPad 2 instead.  The others  most likely got a replacement Galaxy Tab.  There was nothing to do with "mistaken identity."

 

A more informative article would tell us what percentage of Galaxy Tabs were returned as a whole.  Then we could extrapolate why each was returned.

The claim isn't that 9% of Samsung Tab returns were because buyers thought they were iPads. What the report says is that of those that returned them, 9% said it was to buy an iPad instead. I don't know that there's any claim at all of a number that thought they had bought an Apple iPad in the first place. The claim that Tab's were being mistaken for iPads in a large number of cases is being reported as a bit of exaggeration by Apple's counsel.


Edited by Gatorguy - 8/7/12 at 4:51pm
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post #8 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

9% exchanged because they thought it was an iPad, but 25% exchanged because they just wanted an iPad instead.

Other articles online list the 9% as returned to get an iPad instead.

Honeycomb is the biggest POS operating system ever developed. I don't blame people for returning any tablet with it installed. Nexus 7 on Jelly Bean seems to be pretty successful though.
post #9 of 60
Quote:

So 9% of Galaxy Tab purchasers are too dumb to read the name on the box and thought it was an iPad 2...what percentage thought it was a fish bowl, sleeping bag or scuba mask???  Actually, the article states that 9% returned their tablet and got an iPad 2 instead.  The others  most likely got a replacement Galaxy Tab.  There was nothing to do with "mistaken identity."

 

Anything that looks like an iPad can be considered an iPad -- that's the argument, that's what these statistics prove.  Even the statistics stating that Android was hard to operate, had poor responsiveness, and had a poor app selection could be considered as people who were actually expecting "an iPad from a different brand" just like they can usually expect all PC brands to run Windows.

post #10 of 60

this is Best Buy returns... people lie most of the time because they are afraid to tell the truth thinking they'll get denied a refund.

 

"I thought it was an iPad" is probably not something someone would say even if it was the truth.  Most people who return something for no reason other than they wanted to "borrow" it for a week to play with it, or just decided they want their money instead... will say "it doesn't work right!" thinking its the only way they can be assured of getting their refund.

post #11 of 60

Which is worse return cause it's bust or return cause it's wrong?

post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by stniuk View Post

Which is worse return cause it's bust or return cause it's wrong?

Was there any attached claim of what percentage of overall Tab purchases were returned. If it's 5% more or less I'm not sure the specific reason is overly important. If 25% are returned then Samsung obviously had some problems to deal with.

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post #13 of 60

So Samsung, can we say it 'looks like an iPad, just doesn't work like an iPad'.

 

Guess there are some things that just can't be copied!

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post #14 of 60

So they're aren't iPads, they're just crap. 

 

Got it.

post #15 of 60

That above picture is interesting and all, but it doesn't take into account the evolution of available technology between 2006 and 2010. I know most people forget just how fast technology evolves, but large touch panels were so expensive and touch interfaces so unreliable at that scale that physical buttons and a thicker form factor just made more sense. I know this because my hospital adopted Pad like devices for monitoring and distributing patient medications back in 2007, and they were a damn mess and weighed a ton. The system we upgraded to last year, however, is solely a touch interface save for a power button, and is about the same thickness as the newest iPad. Cost to implement both systems was about the same, so it's not like the older setup was a mess because the board went cheap, but rather, technology finally caught up with it's designers original intentions, and they were able to release a much better product.

post #16 of 60
Quote:

So they're aren't iPads, they're just crap. 

 

Got it.

 

Where do you think the stock sold from Apple's Refurbished Store comes from? Everything breaks, especially high tech gadgets that are meant to be held, and used daily.

post #17 of 60
I know it's anecdotal bur I've owned multple of each version of the iPad and given many as gifts and haven't had to replace any due to defect. Are there published defect returns from Apple, Apple resellers or consumer reporting groups?

Given the [lack of] volume Samsung sells in this space, it had to have smarted a bit to get this on the court record but clearly they had no alternative. Faulty, underperforming, or not Apple. OUCH!
post #18 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Where do you think the stock sold from Apple's Refurbished Store comes from? Everything breaks, especially high tech gadgets that are meant to be held, and used daily.

29th day returns because the next version is announced?
post #19 of 60

Typical of Android folks.  Creating complete garbage.  Can't compete with Apple on quality so make it as cheap as you can and hope that 3 out of 4 people walk away and keep it.
 

Most will end up in landfills or forgotten about in a desk drawer.  What a shame that so many valuable resources are consumed on what is essentially a disposable product.

 

In this particular case, Samsung is DOOMED!  :)

post #20 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

That above picture is interesting and all, but it doesn't take into account the evolution of available technology between 2006 and 2010. I know most people forget just how fast technology evolves, but large touch panels were so expensive and touch interfaces so unreliable at that scale that physical buttons and a thicker form factor just made more sense. I know this because my hospital adopted Pad like devices for monitoring and distributing patient medications back in 2007, and they were a damn mess and weighed a ton. The system we upgraded to last year, however, is solely a touch interface save for a power button, and is about the same thickness as the newest iPad. Cost to implement both systems was about the same, so it's not like the older setup was a mess because the board went cheap, but rather, technology finally caught up with it's designers original intentions, and they were able to release a much better product.

This is true. Also impressive is that large touch panels were impossible to produce in large enough quantities to make it economically feasible, until the iPad broke that wall down.

I was an iPad doubter at first. But I truly think that the "tablet market" was not an inevitability, at least not in the near future. I think if apple decided to not make an iPad, we wouldn't be here talking about tablets at all
post #21 of 60

I read here at AI from some hardcore android fans - Sam[scum] ( as Jim Dalrymple put it ) HAVE pretty awful GOOd engineers.

post #22 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

 

Where do you think the stock sold from Apple's Refurbished Store comes from? Everything breaks, especially high tech gadgets that are meant to be held, and used daily.

 

 

Samsung *already* sells a mere fraction of what Apple sells, and a lot of that is just stuffed in the channel. 

 

So you can imagine why this is a big deal. 

post #23 of 60

Are these reasons what Best Buy enters into their system? Are they suppose do that?

 

My last return experience with Best Buy was rather quick.

 

No questions asked. Other than "Can I see your receipt."

post #24 of 60

Your Honor, this is proof we didn't copy Apple. Our tablets suck.

post #25 of 60
Wow! We certainly showed them... More than twice as many people returned our tablets because they are shit... Than because they look like an iPad!
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post #26 of 60
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Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

this is Best Buy returns... people lie most of the time because they are afraid to tell the truth thinking they'll get denied a refund.

"I thought it was an iPad" is probably not something someone would say even if it was the truth.  Most people who return something for no reason other than they wanted to "borrow" it for a week to play with it, or just decided they want their money instead... will say "it doesn't work right!" thinking its the only way they can be assured of getting their refund.
Funny that the people who returned just happened to put down as a reason the very things that suck about the Galaxy Tab. Maybe they lied, but that many giving similar reasons is too much of a coincidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msuberly View Post

So 9% of Galaxy Tab purchasers are too dumb to read the name on the box and thought it was an iPad 2...what percentage thought it was a fish bowl, sleeping bag or scuba mask???  Actually, the article states that 9% returned their tablet and got an iPad 2 instead.  The others  most likely got a replacement Galaxy Tab.  There was nothing to do with "mistaken identity."

A more informative article would tell us what percentage of Galaxy Tabs were returned as a whole.  Then we could extrapolate why each was returned.
You mean like you pulling numbers out of thin air? So 9% exchanged for iPads. That doesn't mean the rest exchanged for Galaxy Tabs. They could have simply got their cash back and never bought a tablet. The could have got cash back and bought an iPad at the Apple Store. The could have got a laptop. We don't know.

Your argument about people too stupid to read the box is asinine. As people mentioned when this news first appeared they were probably customers who bought the Galaxy because the salesperson said it was "just like an iPad" or "it does the same things as an iPad". Maybe even a grandmother buying a tablet for her grand kids.

People aren't stupid enough to buy a tablet with a Samsung on the box and think they were buying an iPad. However, it appears many people are stupid enough to believe that's what really happened.

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post #27 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Typical of Android folks.  Creating complete garbage.  Can't compete with Apple on quality so make it as cheap as you can and hope that 3 out of 4 people walk away and keep it.
 

Most will end up in landfills or forgotten about in a desk drawer.  What a shame that so many valuable resources are consumed on what is essentially a disposable product.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Slipshod design and manufacturing...all this just to make a buck! Ugh! :)

post #28 of 60
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

But Best Buy still reported that as being a reason, right?

Do we know the actual questions/wording from this survey? Is it a survey that would truly get at that particular question of “thought it was an iPad”? Or would the questions lead people in a different direction? What % chose the option “thought it was an iPad”... or was that simply not one of the choices?

Good questions.

Also that's 30 out of how many stores. How many did the Apple info come from?

Because 9% of returns from 500 stores is a different game than 25% of 30 stores.
post #29 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Your Honor, this is proof we didn't copy Apple. Our tablets suck.

Is that US for 'not as cool'
post #30 of 60
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Is that US for 'not as cool'

 

Well, you know, 'trunk', 'boot'; 'elevator', 'lift'; 'suck', 'not as cool'…

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post #31 of 60

I think BB has 30 days return policy. It gives that many days for buyers to play dumb. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

this is Best Buy returns... people lie most of the time because they are afraid to tell the truth thinking they'll get denied a refund.

 

"I thought it was an iPad" is probably not something someone would say even if it was the truth.  Most people who return something for no reason other than they wanted to "borrow" it for a week to play with it, or just decided they want their money instead... will say "it doesn't work right!" thinking its the only way they can be assured of getting their refund.

post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Good questions.
Also that's 30 out of how many stores. How many did the Apple info come from?
Because 9% of returns from 500 stores is a different game than 25% of 30 stores.

I think it was using the same Samsung survey.

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post #33 of 60

I'm thinking that what's worse then copying a product, is copying it with a craptastic product. Asia is the world center for counterfeited goods, usually right down to the logo. 

 

Now Samscum is not only confusing the customer but degrading the Apple brand.

 

 

I'm returning this because I was confused. I thought I was buying a real tablet.

post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Was there any attached claim of what percentage of overall Tab purchases were returned. If it's 5% more or less I'm not sure the specific reason is overly important. If 25% are returned then Samsung obviously had some problems to deal with.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm surprised Apple didn't insist on having the total percentage of returns. 9% of 5% isn't much to talk about, but 9% of 25% is.

At any rate, I remember several articles in the past stating that most Samsung 7" tablets were returned. I wouldn't be surprised. The manager at my local Radio Shack, whom I know pretty well, has told me that almost all the tablets they sell are iPads, and that many of the others get returned, some actually because when people get them home, they try to connect them to their iTunes accounts, and find out that they can't.

Considering that many, if not most, iTunes accounts are owned by Windows users, I'm not surprised that they would also think that a non Apple tablet would work.
post #35 of 60

The level of discussion can be encapsulated in one word. Scum.

I wouldn't call Apple, crapple.

I'd really like to know the integrity of these Best Buy customers who return devices a day before the return policy expires.

Anyone who returns a Samsung iPad because it wasn't a real iPad has to be clinically dumb.


Edited by eric475 - 8/7/12 at 8:45pm
post #36 of 60
Originally Posted by eric475 View Post
Anyone who returns a Samsung iPad because it wasn't a real iPad has to be clinically dumb.

 

Or they wanted the real thing.

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post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Typical of Android folks.  Creating complete garbage.  Can't compete with Apple on quality so make it as cheap as you can and hope that 3 out of 4 people walk away and keep it.
 

Most will end up in landfills or forgotten about in a desk drawer.  What a shame that so many valuable resources are consumed on what is essentially a disposable product.

 

In this particular case, Samsung is DOOMED!  :)

Apple doesn't have Jobs around anymore. Sure, Cook can run Apple well. But what's the next new new product line coming out of Apple under Cook? Nothing. So who's doomed?

post #38 of 60
Originally Posted by eric475 View Post
Apple doesn't have Jobs around anymore. Sure, Cook can run Apple well. But what's the next new new product line coming out of Apple under Cook? Nothing. So who's doomed?

 

Turns out that I was right to move you up a category on my list after all.

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post #39 of 60

Either way ... enough said.

post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post

this is Best Buy returns... people lie most of the time because they are afraid to tell the truth thinking they'll get denied a refund.

 

"I thought it was an iPad" is probably not something someone would say even if it was the truth.  Most people who return something for no reason other than they wanted to "borrow" it for a week to play with it, or just decided they want their money instead... will say "it doesn't work right!" thinking its the only way they can be assured of getting their refund.

Oh this is likely what happens:

 

"I'd like to return this thing."

BB - "Oh, okay, can I get the credit card you used to pay for it?"

 

Customers who return an item for any reason other than to exchange for the same item, are entered as "defective." Likewise customers may try to save face and say the item is defective and they just want a refund or something else. Usually people don't want to go through multiple returns with the same device, and BestBuy's "extended warranty" service bolt-on's only allow for getting a new different device if an item has been exchanged 3 times for the same reason. Sales reps usually mislead customers into thinking the service plan is a no-fault insurance, when it's not. 

 

Unless Samsung and Apple want to get statistics from the exact same stores from each chain, this is not a reliable number. The exchange rate for the 30 days after Christmas is likely more "exchange for credit" and less "defective returns" than it is any other time of the year. 

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