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Former Mac designer finds 'substantial similarities' in Samsung, Apple GUIs

post #1 of 26
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Former Apple and NeXT graphic designer Susan Kare took the stand on Tuesday, saying that she saw "substantial simiarities" between Samsung's home screen icons and those of Apple's iPhone, echoing previous testimony from Apple expert witness Peter Bressler.

Kare, a designer credited with many of the original Mac's icons including "happy Mac," gave her testimony as an Apple expert witness at the Apple v. Samsung patent trial, noting several elements of Samsung's UI infringes on the look of Apple's iPhone home screen, reports The Wall Street Journal.

In making her comparisons, Kare studied home screen icons on 11 Samsung smartphones released after the original iPhone debuted in 2007, including the "Captivate" and "Galaxy S 4G." Among the icons studied were Contacts, Notes, Photos and Settings, which were compared to counterpart assets on Samsung devices. In addition, the grid-type layout of the iPhone's home screen is also allegedly infringed upon by Samsung's designs.

Apple owns patents regarding the look and layout of icons in iOS, as seen in the company's D'305 patent which was filed for in 2007 and granted in 2009.

According to testimony, the two companies' iconography was similar enough that Kare herself became confused at one point and mistook a Samsung handset for an iPhone.

"I mistook one for the other," Kare said. "In addition to the analysis, I personally had the experience of being confused."

Samsung countered by presenting the icon design of the messaging app featured in Samsung's "Fascinate" smartphone, an example which does not share the iPhone's rounded-square imagery. Kare agreed the specific designs are not "substantially similar" to Apple's assets, but noted the two shared the same metaphors.

"it's not 100% different," Kare said of the "Settings" icons. Apple's take displays a set of three gears while Samsung's presents one large gear.

Messaging
Apple exhibit comparing Samsung messaging icons with the iOS Messages app.
Source: Apple v. Samsung court documents


Kare said that in her search for design alternatives, she found examples which "show you can do a design that doesn't look confusingly similar," referencing a UI solution from RIM. The argument of confusion is at the heart of Apple's case against Samsung and has been repeated numerous times over the course of the proceedings.

In Samsung's defense, lawyer Charles Verhoeven argued that by simply turning on one of the handsets, any customer would see the difference between an iPhone and one made by the South Korean electronics giant. To illustrate his point, Verhoeven turned on three devices to show their respective boot sequences.

On startup, Samsung's Android-based "Charge" smartphone displayed a company logo followed by a brief Droid animation, while Apple's iPhone displayed the Cupertino company's metallic logo. Verhoeven went on to explain that a Charge user needs to boot the device, unlock it and press a button to reach the home screen.

Apple v. Samsung will resume on Friday with testimony from Apple expert witnesses.
post #2 of 26

I applaud Apple for taking on Samsung...most American Companies and their CEO's don't give a rat's ass who steals their IP! They are giving away our jobs and now they are giving away our IP! Shameful!

 

Case in point...we gave China the IP to build an attack helicopter...see link! Ugh!

 

http://www.startribune.com/world/163828046.html?refer=y

post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

 

Case in point...we gave China the IP to build an attack helicopter...see link! Ugh!

 

 

We'll see who has the most Mil-Cred (my new made up word) when China decides to invade Taiwan. There is going to be a show down sooner or later.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #4 of 26

Charles Verhoeven: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, those icons may look alike, but here is a picture of Chewbacca. Think about that for a minute: that does not make sense!"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #5 of 26

Except... how many times do you boot the phone? If it's an iPhone, close to never. Maybe Android phones need resetting constantly?

post #6 of 26
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
There is going to be a show down sooner or later.

 

Since the US has a legal claim on the island, what happens then?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

Except... how many times do you boot the phone? If it's an iPhone, close to never. Maybe Android phones need resetting constantly?

 

More like "You have to boot the samsung phone frequently?"

 

I went into the Samsung store today (the Samsung store is also a knock off of the Apple store, except with blue hues, it's also rather empty compared to the Apple store) and looked at the phone closest to the entrance. That model doesn't have the curved icons. However the different style home screen is less confusing on this version. 

post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

Except... how many times do you boot the phone? If it's an iPhone, close to never. Maybe Android phones need resetting constantly?

 

LOL. Are you kidding? I mean, really? You're kidding, right? Android phones crash more often than a Windows 7 box. No exaggeration.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #9 of 26
Quote:
“Wouldn’t you agree that by the time the consumer turns on the phone, and goes through the steps we looked at, seeing the Samsung sign prominently for several seconds,” Verhoeven asked, “that the consumer knows it’s a Samsung phone?”

“I’m not an expert in consumer behavior, and that kind of user experience,” Kare replied. “I’m really focused on graphic user interface, so I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer that.”

This makes her look like she's an idiot.
I mean, might I have an impression that I turned on a Samsung when I see the Apple logo?
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

LOL. Are you kidding? I mean, really? You're kidding, right? Android phones crash more often than a Windows 7 box. No exaggeration.

That isn't saying much. Windows 7 rarely crashes outside of hardware problems, so it does little to further your agenda. Windows 7 stability has literally nothing to do with why I still primarily use OSX.

post #11 of 26

So basically, what Verhoeven is saying, is that the Samsung phones will look the same when the phone is running or when it's off... and will ónly look very different when it's booting?

 

I never knew people were booting more than they were actually using the phone. I personally booted my phone twice in 2 years, and I suspect most users barely see the boot screen. His defense is already flawed by nature, and I think the newly allowed evidence is going to end up being one of the main pieces that will make Samsung lose both a good portion of this lawsuit as well as a good portion of their public face.

post #12 of 26

The Samsung lawyers seem to pick out tiny differences and say that they're different, but Apple is making a higher level "Look and Feel" argument. 

post #13 of 26

It's immediately clear if its an iPhone or Samsung phone.

The iPhone icons are bright and clear and nicely laid out, Samsungs icons are dull and small without bright colors and 3D effects and laid out awkwardly with way to much space between.

I think its impossible to mistake one for the other, unless your blind.

 

J.

post #14 of 26

It does not matter if Apple win this trial...the damage is far more extensive than anyone could ever imagine....I was in some computer mega store checking what was new when a girl passed by talking to a couple of friends...she said:  the apps for the Android works everywhere (sic) except in the Apple's Android phone (SIC SIC SIC)....I meaning it...she said exactly those words...

post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by flabber View Post

So basically, what Verhoeven is saying, is that the Samsung phones will look the same when the phone is running or when it's off... and will ónly look very different when it's booting?

 

I never knew people were booting more than they were actually using the phone. I personally booted my phone twice in 2 years, and I suspect most users barely see the boot screen. His defense is already flawed by nature, and I think the newly allowed evidence is going to end up being one of the main pieces that will make Samsung lose both a good portion of this lawsuit as well as a good portion of their public face.

He was referring to the main "home" screen that users see when they wake their phones, not the boot animation when it's restarting from a complete power off. It was brought up because Apple prefers to show the Samsung phones displaying the AppDrawer rather than the Galaxy home screen which doesn't really resemble the iPhone home screen so much.

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post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

It was brought up because Apple prefers to show the Samsung phones displaying the AppDrawer rather than the Galaxy home screen which doesn't really resemble the iPhone home screen so much.

 

And Samsung prefers to show the same screen... when it suits them.

 

700

post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

 

And Samsung prefers to show the same screen... when it suits them.

 

 

Quite right, as I recall seeing some of those myself. Just another reason I think Samsung guilty of violating Apple's trade dress without Apple having to resort to partial truths. Presenting ads like that as evidence would be more appropriate and honest IMO.

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post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quite right, as I recall seeing some of those myself. Just another reason I think Samsung guilty of violating Apple's trade dress without Apple having to resort to partial truths. Presenting ads like that as evidence would be more appropriate and honest IMO.

 

Oh, the irony.

post #19 of 26

They want people to look at that ad and think "Oh, I can get a cheap iPhone."

post #20 of 26
First of all I am no lawyer, but the argument used by Samsung seems stupid to me.
It's like saying that I know I copied the LV pattern, but I have printed my logo inside the flap. Anyone opening the bag will know its not from LV but from us.
Bunch of idiots to me!
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by eslopes View Post

It does not matter if Apple win this trial...the damage is far more extensive than anyone could ever imagine....I was in some computer mega store checking what was new when a girl passed by talking to a couple of friends...she said:  the apps for the Android works everywhere (sic) except in the Apple's Android phone (SIC SIC SIC)....I meaning it...she said exactly those words...

And how is that Samsung's fault? It happens all the time with different products. I've seen people as for McNuggets in a Burger King and for a Whopper in a McDonald's. A person's stupidity is their own fault.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #22 of 26

FYI: Susan Kare designed nothing for NeXTStep and NeXT that actually existed beyond the early stages of the corporation. You want to talk to the Graphic Designer of NeXTStep you talk to the Father of NeXTStep UI, Keith Ohlfs.

post #23 of 26

I wasn't talking about Samsung, but the whole Android copying iPhone thing....as SJ said "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."...he was not talking about Samsung specifically...neither did I...
 

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In Samsung's defense, lawyer Charles Verhoeven argued that by simply turning on one of the handsets, any customer would see the difference between an iPhone and one made by the South Korean electronics giant. To illustrate his point, Verhoeven turned on three devices to show their respective boot sequences.
On startup, Samsung's Android-based "Charge" smartphone displayed a company logo followed by a brief Droid animation, while Apple's iPhone displayed the Cupertino company's metallic logo. Verhoeven went on to explain that a Charge user needs to boot the device, unlock it and press a button to reach the home screen.

 

Why yes Mr. Verhoeven, the first thing I do when I am looking at phones/tablets in the store is turn them on and watch the boot sequence. Actually, no, they're usually already on and I can walk up to them to try them out. Heck, the devices usually aren't event locked; in my experience, they're showing a video that's intended to catch your eye.
 
It seems that Samsung has lawyered themselves up for a loss... they already seem to be playing to the appeal.
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Just another reason I think Samsung guilty of violating Apple's trade dress without Apple having to resort to partial truths.

 

Apple is accusing Samsung's 'app drawer' (or whatever it's called) of looking too similar to iPhone's home screen.

Where is the partial truth in that?

post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

 

Apple is accusing Samsung's 'app drawer' (or whatever it's called) of looking too similar to iPhone's home screen.

Where is the partial truth in that?

That's a totally true statement. :)

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