Apple's new iPhone expected to be 18% thinner than iPhone 4S - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

 

1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.  

2) The current battery life is the best in the business.  

1) the 4s battery life is far worse than the 4

2) not even close to other phones

So, about 1/5 larger screen (in both area and pixels) and about 1/8 smaller by volume. Get me one!

(The people who say a screen MUST be wider as well... do they want larger pixels, or a whole new pixel width for developers to deal with?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaneur 


Companies that are serious about design do not think this way. Only if function can be improved should design change. Good design is about the way it works, or words to that effect—Steve Jobs.
The first VW Beetle was basically the same from 1939 to sometime in the 90s. The engineers of the company at that time were patient and observant, not style-conscious. They sold more of that car than any other in history.
Edit: And if they make it thinner, it's because it fits the hand better, or goes in and out of pocket better, not because it's a fashion statement.

I agree with you... designs should represent good function as well. 

But as a consumer point of view, I would like the new iPhone to maybe look a little bit more unique. Again, I love this unibody design supposedly coming out next month. If I could buy it right now, I would.

It's just I want to see what Apple can do with their designs, and that's a good thing. As a consumer, when one expects a company to design something cool, it's good news for that company (in this case, Apple).

I also agree with you that the iPhone is thinner to fit better and all, but I also will say that aesthetics is also another reason why, or we wouldn't have these pretty phones out in the market!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

I can't argue with the thickness or battery life as the first isn't too thick and the battery could always be better but I would be weight would be the biggest issue with going with a 50% larger battery. I'd argue that it would then be too heavy to be comfortable. (Note: I know you said battery life, not battery size, but without better tech it's currently one and the same.)
From the reduction of so many other components and the change in the front and back paneling it's possible they could have increased the battery capacity a bit. i doubt it's by much if they did, but it still could be possible to get better battery life from even the same size or smaller battery with the new tech. The LTE chip should be (hopefully) using the 28nm lithography and at least be more power efficient than the iPhone 3G on 3G when it arrived in 2008.

I didn't say make it thicker, I said don't make it thinner.  I'm making some assumptions, but surely the whole thickness of the phone isn't battery, at any point.  The fact that it is becoming so much taller should leave a giant empty space in the case for more battery.  There shouldn't need to be much more internal space used by anything as a result of the taller screen, really.  So most of that height is probably going to extra battery.  That would net a much bigger battery if they did not make it thinner.  But if they do, then they're just taking away that benefit.  And I'm going to have finally break down and buy a battery case, because I can't deal with running out of battery at 5 PM anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

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PS: I'm most concerned with how Apple will do LTE operating bands for the rest of the world. It's one thing to focus on the US for the iPad but a smartphone is different. While LTE uses the same baseband they do need different HW for different markets (read: countries) for the operating bands. Maybe Qualcomm was able to make them a baseband that allowed for a half-dozen or more operating bands but I doubt it. I'm thinking we'll see LTE iPhones that are now regionalized because of the LTE bands.

This is concern for me too.  Its possible the Qualcomm new chip will have more support indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

 

1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.  

2) The current battery life is the best in the business.  

CLAIMED battery life either stays the same or increases.  Actual battery life?  Mine goes down every year.  I've had every new phone, each one for no more than a month after the next came out.

Pales in comparison to the Razr Maxx.  Give me an iPhone Maxx.  I'll pay an extra $100 for a battery with twice the capacity, which should only make the phone a tiny bit thicker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedromartins 

I doubt that they see it as a real possibility.

 

the iphone is a victim of its sucess. what does this mean? samsung (for example) can take the risk and put the latest and greatest on their new phone (the note) because it will "only" sell a few million during the first half of the year. However apple needs something that is tested until saturation point and 100pc dominated tech because they will sell it in the 7digit figure since month one. they cannot risk that much on the pure hardware side. to be innovative while riding on the 2007 sucess they need to "create" features like siri until they think that they gained enough with it and are ready to destroy and recreate the mobile arena again and that's when your theory makes sense. maybe when they reach 300billion revenue per year, 2013 :) (or when they reach 500billion...)  

Sounds like Apple has a problem Microsoft is very familiar with.  

The ability to be disruptive to your own product line is what has made Apple's computers and OSes so good over the years as compared to MS dragging along DOS bloat.  Sounds like you think this is reversed in phones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.  

2) The current battery life is the best in the business.  

The 4s is far from being the best in the business.  The 4s batterie life is pretty horrible actually. The ipad3 battery life is also worst than the ipad2

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard 

Not really. I just reckon how it will look in comparison with my current iPhone 4S. It'll look way too tall and narrow. In one word - UGLY.

You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:

It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac_128 

Well I HOPE it's thinner!!
Making it longer should have opened up a ton of new internal space, more than Apple could have arguably filled.
Yeah they could have just packed the remaining unused space with extra battery, but why do that as long as they can achieve an impressive battery life otherwise?
OTOH, the original iPhone was just a tad bit too thin to hold comfortably. The 3G is still the most comfortable of the iPhone designs to hold, but it is still a tad bit too thick for me. The 4 got it about right.
I have a friend with a RAZR and that phone is uncomfortably thin to hold. The fact it's also a plastic housing makes it seem incredibly fragile as well, despite being extremely long and uncomfortably wide.

The battery life is not impressive to me.  It's a constant problem for me.  And I've had nothing but iPhones for the last 5 years.

The iPhone 4S is the thinnest ever so I don't see your praise of it being thicker than the 1 making any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I think there is a more pressing issue that falls under the lesser known diseconomies of scale, even though it's not quite the right term to use. Apple is in the unique position of having a premium product that sells more than the average, inexpensive product. This is great for business but it also means they need to have the latest components in quantity on launch day that far exceeds their rivals which means they need to stock pile a lot farther in advance and at much higher quantity and yet are still likely to launch afterwards due to the volumes needed to meet demand.
This issue is one that isn't easy overcome in a finite world which is one reason I do expect them to vary the brand in ways that can use different components so they can maximize sales if component issues arise.
You're right, other smartphone aren't even close.

 

My eyes must be failing me, sonny... can you point me to the Droid Razr Maxx on that chart please?

I don't know. Most phones go into pockets. A thinner phone with a bigger screen is a great improvement. The less noticeable it can be in your pocket, the better.

For people who want giant phones with more than 24 hours of battery life, there's always stuff like this: http://www.phonesuit.com 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedromartins 

And that's where the 32nm A5 on the ipad 2 runs the show, right? the a5x is too big and power hungry and it is too soon for the rumoured a6, so that's the only option?

I'm actually betting on an all-new A6 chip for the iPhone 5, I think it will be the main surprise Apple has for us next month.

The A5 has already been used in the iPhone 4S, and the A5X is basically the same thing with more RAM and a much faster GPU. The iPhone 5 wouldn't benefit nearly as much from doubling the graphics performance because it is rendering less than half the pixels compared to the iPad 3. Most of that power would go to waste. Of course Apple could use the dual-core GPU from the iPad 3 but clock it lower to save battery, but then you would still have the same CPU performance as the iPhone 4S. To make the thing at least a little faster they could use a 32 nm A5X and clock it a little higher, but I wouldn't expect much more than 10% to 20% performance gains.

Somehow I don't believe Apple will release a new iPhone that is only marginally faster than the 4S. The competition is already using Cortex-A15 based SoC's that are faster clock-for-clock, or quad-core SoC's that are faster in multithreaded tasks. I think Apple needs to move to a Cortex-A15 dual or quad-core produced at 32 or 28 nm, and I think they can do it, Samsung dedicated a whole fab to the production of SoC's for Apple, and they already have their 28 nm process more or less sorted out. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach 

You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:

 

It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY

I really hope that you will be right. Fingers crossed. ;)

I like the design. The focus and lighting on these photographs are better than we have seen previously.

I like the bevel on the edge. Also I think the speaker holes are cool being uneven. You know, why worry about the right and left being unequal since there is hardly any separation for stereo anyway. Just put as many holes as will fit allowing the dock to be centered. The jack on the bottom is the right design so whatever compromises need to made, that is the right solution.

My battery already lasts more than all day for me since I mostly do office work and not on the road. As long as the battery life is at least the same, it is fine. Thin...whatever. It doesn't need to be any thinner in my opinion but it doesn't matter to me if it is either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I love this new design but that original iPhone was very comfortable to hold. Not sure I want the rest of the space filled with battery as that would be obnoxious but I'd for rounded, thicker and aluminum again.

One thing about the flat edges is that it makes it possible to turn on the video camera and place it on a table edgewise to record unattended. Same thing to watch a video. It is not that often that you would use it in that way but with rounded edges you could not do it at all.

Thinner? Ridiculous how the designers keep pushing on toward two dimensions.

Have they forgotten they are selling these things to humans(fingers) and not insects(pincers).  

I'm getting it just for the camera.

Samsung Galaxy S III is 8.6 mm thick -- OMG, Apple is copying Samsung if the new iPhone is going to be 8.63 mm thick!

While I'm planning to go for the iPhone 5, I don't really see that much advancement in the iPhone domain.  Plenty of high-power, high-resolution, very capable phones out there already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameronj 

 

My eyes must be failing me, sonny... can you point me to the Droid Razr Maxx on that chart please?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5533/motorola-droid-razr-maxx-review-18x-the-battery/2

20.84 hrs talk time

8.13 hrs 3G Web Browsing

5.636 hrs 4G Web Browsing

12.74 hrs Wi Fi Web Browsing

6.367 hrs WiFi Hotspot 4G

Also, the MAXX has 29% greater volume in their phone, of course they had room for that much battery.

Thoughts:

1: Magsafe connector: Doubt that. Smaller, yes, but not Magsafe. Apple does not permit others to make (or even reuse) Magsafe connectors. If they had the same policy for iPhones, they would wipe out a thriving ecosystem for accessories. Those accessories are one of the attractions of the iPhone. It has to be a design simple enough so they will let others make it too. I keep thinking it would be cool if you could somehow stick in a micro USB connector for charging only and a larger Apple connector for full data and accessories, but this is probably not feasible.

2: Looks like the old iPhone. Slightly sleeker because of being thinner. From a marketing standpoint, I think I am ready for a shift in design and this seems too conservative. Apple has a lot invested in the optimized design of the external antenna band, so I think they want to milk it some more. Sigh.

3: There is almost nothing poking out beyond the antenna band. This looks much cleaner and purer than the iPhone 4 and 4s with that ungainly and fragile plastic band around the edge of the glass. This part I like.

4: Although I like the metal back, I think the back of the phone looks like a patchwork of too many different pieces. This seems less objectionable in the pictures of the black model. I will withhold judgement until I see the real thing. Apple fit and finish has a way of making objections like this melt away.

Overall, its a good upgrade: LTE, a bit more screen area, thinner and sleeker. I would have appreciated a different design approach to this one and I would have appreciated even more screen real estate. I would love it if this were the low end model....  just one more thing....

With so many articles focusing on the design and external specs, it would be nice to see some articles in regards to what is going to be on the inside of the phone and other key specs. Maybe these leaks are far harder to come by. Specifically, I wonder how they plan to address all the flavors of LTE all over the world. So many different bands is going to be a real issue for Apple and all other companies as well. Even when you look at just the USA alone, the combination of CDMA, GSM, then add different LTE bands in the mix as well. In North America, 700/ 800 and 1,700/ 1,900 MHz and 2.5GHz in future; 800, 1,800, 2,600 MHz in Europe, Middle East, Africa; 1,800 and 2,600 MHz in Asia; 1,800 MHz in Australia. China is using 1.9, 2.3, 2.5 GHz. Japan is using 800MHz & 2.1 GHz. And many markets in Southeast Asia are using 1.8 GHz and others.Then you have the TDD and FDD thrown in as well adding more confusion. A good list can be found here. LTE Bands

I am sure Apple wants to produce as few iPhone models as possible to save on costs. Years ago people hoped LTE would allow a true global phone for voice and data roaming, but it looks like it will be even more complex and not less. The LTE iPad only worked in North America so I am interested to see how Apple will address this issue. Maybe they have a new SoC that will be a true rosetta stone. 

when is this bitch going to get 4G?  Sorry, I havent found any reference that its going to get that speed.  F*!

Originally Posted by ces69jen 
when is this bitch going to get 4G?  Sorry, I havent found any reference that its going to get that speed.  F*!

If you believe what AT&T tells you, it already has 4G. 

I just hope that Apple's using the truly world-band LTE chips this time. They didn't exist last time around, but there's no excuse not to now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard 

Oh, no! Please! What an ugly lump it's going to become! Did Apple really hired "designer" from scamsung? :(

Well, if you think it's ugly, I guess Apple should go back to the drawing board. Because clearly after the entire internet (this place included) had declared the iPhone 4 design the most hideous thing they've ever seen in their lives, 'ugly as sin', 'clearly not an Apple device', a 'monstrosity', etc- the phone was an utter failure. Oh wait- that was another dimension. The phone was the most successful in existence, and the subsequent one even more so, which retained the exact design. Learn some humility and stop with the sensationalism, it does nothing to further discussion. The design might not be up YOUR alley, but that doesn't mean its ugly, nor that Apple can't design. To this day, the iPhone 4/4S is still the most classy and beautiful phone ever made. None of the massive plastic phones today change that fact. Shows how much people shrieking on messageboards know. This design looks to be an improvement on the 4/4S design, and I have no doubt it will look stunning in person. 

Also, why do people want Apple to throw out everything they learned while designing their current phones, and start from scratch? You people think Ive and his team didnt consider a bunch of other designs? That they don't have a hundred completely prototypes in the lab? Clearly they believe there's design elements from the current generation that work extremely well for their goals, and that building on that is a good thing. Also, the product is maturing. Look at Apple's iMac line, Macbook Air, MBP, etc. How much has the iMac changed in the past few years? The Retina MBP was basically rebuilt from the ground up- nothing internally is the same. But it looks physically identical, minus the thinnes and the ports. You think Apple could EASILY have changed the designed while they were redesigning it from scratch? Of course they could have. But they DECIDED to keep it similar. Maybe because they believe they got it right. Just because something is not radically redesigned to satisfy people's ADHD, doesnt mean Apple has no 'innovation' left. It means they think deeply about every design choice, as its interwoven with function. I'm shocked at how so many people here look at things from such a childish point of view. Maybe because they're children, I don't know. There's a million considerations when designing a phone (especially one that will sell in iPhone's #s) and I'm sure Apple's design team ahs considered every single one of them and produced a product they believe meets those goals in the best way they know how. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But atleast wait until the damn thing is officially revealed to jump to conclusions. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


They must be, among other things, as I assume you're attempting to say that phone with 237% the battery capacity of the iPhone 4S somehow invalides my response to 1) the 4s battery life is far worse than the 4, 2) not even close to other phones, despite my proving otherwise.
Here are the results of the Droid RZR MAXX. It's simply amazing that a phone with 5 Whr battery could even come close, much less beat a phone with 12 Whr battery in any test. It solidifies just how good Apple is at power management -and/or- just how bad Android and/or their vendors are it.

 

It also shows just how easily Apple could fix this problem.  They don't need a HUGE battery.  They just need a little bit bigger one.  You'd think it would be a great marketing tool to have users going around to all their friends 'sheesh, you need to charge your phone before we go out to the bar?  My iPhone still has 42% left!"

Much better than "oh our phone is only 7mm, the HUGE droid phone over there is 7.3mm thick.  What an ugly mess that is."

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


That seems guaranteed with these 3rd gen LTE chips. I'll be shocked it they are still using gen 2 tech in this next iPhone.

I would expect no less from Apple when it comes to 2nd Gen LTE chipset and 28nm fabs but its still a larger battery draw and the iPhone 4S sucked more power than the iPhone 4 based on added features.  I would be happy with the same thickness if they put in a larger battery or if they can fit a larger battery with a thinner design then I am even more happy.  Apple has excellent designs, but they do sacrifice the customers expectations since they put more emphasis on design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSquirrel 

 

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5533/motorola-droid-razr-maxx-review-18x-the-battery/2

 

20.84 hrs talk time

8.13 hrs 3G Web Browsing

5.636 hrs 4G Web Browsing

12.74 hrs Wi Fi Web Browsing

6.367 hrs WiFi Hotspot 4G

 

 

Also, the MAXX has 29% greater volume in their phone, of course they had room for that much battery.

Thats exactly what I'm saying.  Nobody is forcing Apple to make their phones with so much less volume.  They are choosing to do it that way, at the expense of battery life.  And it makes me, and a lot of other people, miserable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff 

 

Remember when Apple was arguing for a software SIM (again to make the phone more interoperable [read: firmware push]).  Maybe qualcomm can do the same (a firmware frequency 'tuner').

 

 

as for battery  volume.

 

Old 4s gross volume= 62642.4 cu. mm

new iPhone gross volume  = 55026.6

net reduction = 7615  (12.2% decrease)

 

This is significant.  Unless all the other components (including the 'exoskeleton') shrunk by more than 12%, battery space will be smaller.

 

But in the end, the weight is the most important thing after dimensions.  more battery = heavier.  so here's to chip power consumption efficiency!!!!

I would like to see a software based SIM standard be adopted, this would truly make the iPhone unique and allow customers to take a world phone from say Verizon and put it on Sprint, or a Sprint iPhone to Vodafone via a software update at the Apple store.  Of course the carriers will never allow such a standard or software flash to make the phones work on any carrier.  Still its nice to dream and maybe someday we will see it.