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Nearly a third of consumers say they'd suddenly be interested in a new TV if it came from Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 68

I believe it's the "TV" part of Apple TV that throws people off. It won't be a TV. It will be something that moves beyond what has come before. Many of the purported Apple TV features can be found in multiple products, executed multiple ways throughout multiple industries. But Apple's genius is how it puts them all together, introduce some new ones and brings forth a new paradigm. It will completely alter what people think of a TV.

 

Go back and look at the Keynote that introduces the first iPhone. We take for granted that all smartphones work in similar ways now. But when Apple introduced their complete re-think of what a phone should be able to do and how it would look while doing it, it was groundbreaking. 

 

I think most get hung up on the hardware / software technology side of things. But if you start from the premise of use-cases and lifestyle, throw out all the current rules, then you get to a completely different place. A place Apple has brought other industries before, ie. computer, music, phone and tablet.

 

Think of it this way: Apple always starts from the "Idea" first, then attacks the tactical execution by which to bring it to life. They didn't invent iTunes first. They said, "We love music. We want it to be easy to legally purchase songs digitally and cary 1000s of them around." That was the idea. ipod and itunes was how they brought that idea to life. 

 

So the real question is, what is their "idea" of what a TV should be able to do and what will it look like while doing it? Judging from past experience, I look forward to how they decide to answer that question.

post #42 of 68

I'm actually PROUD of you guys.

 

As nice as Apple's stuff is right now, it doesn't take a marketing genius to figure out that trying to sell a
consumer a $199 phone or a $499 iPad is a completely different animal compared to a $999+ HDTV.

Because Apple WILL NOT sell a TV for $999 or less. It's NOT their marketing or pricing strategy... which has always been PREMIUM/UPMARKET.
If the mid-market price is $999, Apple will sell the TV at $1999.

And as fun as this study is gauging interest... keep in mind Apple is making enemies in that space by fighting Samsung.
Because ALL of the HDTV manufacturers are frenemies. That's why the pricing for TVs is so amazingly similar. Apple doesn't play well with others

preferring to close their system.

I would further predict a lawsuit by Samsung, LG, Hitachi, Toshiba, etc. against Apple for copying their HDTV design of the Square shape.  (ok just kidding!)

 
 
post #43 of 68
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Because Apple WILL NOT sell a TV for $999 or less.

 

{Citation needed, but can't be provided, as Apple doesn't make TVs.}

 

It's NOT their marketing or pricing strategy... which has always been PREMIUM/UPMARKET.
If the mid-market price is $999, Apple will sell the TV at $1999.

 

Which explains the $499 Apple TV box right now, doesn't it?

 

Because ALL of the HDTV manufacturers are colluding. That's why the pricing for TVs is so amazingly similar.

 

Made it more accurate for you. 😉

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

As long as it's a nice one, I'll buy it in the future when I can afford it.
Just don't get the parts from Samsung. My dad bought a 46 inch LCD about 18 months ago and it broke within 2 months. Samsung sent out a guy to repair it (under warranty), but it broke again a month later. So he took it back and bought a Samsung LED. It broke not to long again about 2 week out of warranty. Luckily, Samsung was nice enough to repair it anyway. 

For 1000 bucks, it sure does break a lot. I think we I go to buy a TV in the future, it won't be Samsung; however, I have heard good things about them from people.

Apple will need a strong selling point to make high profit margins though.

It didn't take long for the anti-Samsung posts to come in.

I personally own two Samsung LCD's, a Samsung monitor, Samsung Laser, Samsung Oven, and an old Samsung DVD player. Apart from the DVD needing an update, they have all worked fine. Pity I can't say the same about the Apple products I have had to take back for multi repairs.
post #45 of 68

Sure I'd be interested in it.

 

I wouldn't buy it - after all, a television is basically a sewer pipe than empties into one's living room - but I'd definitely be interested in it.

 

 

 
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

 

I don't buy this line of reasoning. This makes it seem as if Apple come around to your home and forced you into their ecosystem with gun in hand. I have never talked to anyone who begrudgingly said, "God dammit, Apple is making me go buy an iPod, iMac, iPad and MacBook because I bought a LaserWriter back in 1993. They got me into their ecosystem and won't let me out. And I really want out. I hate them." 

 

People, you have a choice. If you are "forced" into their ecosystem, that's probably a sign that you "want" to be there, and like what they're offering. 

Agreed.  If anything the barriers to making a clean break from Windows is the challenge.  People want into Apple, not out.  If corporate IT departments gave people a choice, it would be game over for MS. 

post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Sure I'd be interested in it.

 

I wouldn't buy it - after all, a television is basically a sewer pipe than empties into one's living room - but I'd definitely be interested in it.

 

 

 

LOL! Nice one

post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawdad62 View Post

That exactly what the analyst and the tech pundits said about Apple entering the mobile phone market. Too many players that are already established, too little profit and exactly what could Apple bring?



Apple had much leeway in making the iPhone. Make their own form factor, their own OS, they didn't have to follow guidelines except for the actual phone part. With a TV they have to follow the same form factor, and they don't have much control of the content. A iPhone is a much more personal device, people text, tweet, FB, IG, play games. Not sure people will wanna do things like that with a TV especially in a crowded household.
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post #49 of 68

I agree that the "Apple TV" will be something different.  It's all about accessing content: this is what has been the sticking point for releasing such a device.  Getting the movie studios and television networks on board and implementing pay per view is really difficult - and has little to do with the hardware (outside of encryption).  Games and integrating the device with your phone, iPad hardware and software will be important features (like Photo Stream, Air Play etc).  It will probably come with software that does something useful, auto updating information that plays when you are not watching a program and displaying that to you as a "screen saver".  In fact this may be the time for Apple to introduce its own "Network" for content.

 

I find it funny that whenever Apple Insider (which I read a lot despite their un-proofread articles) shows a stand in image for the Apple TV they show a cinema or iMac screen.  This TV is going to be a slab of glass about 5/8" thick with almost no bezel like LG's top of the line sets.

 

I am curious if they will integrate passive 3D into the set as well, but I would not bet on it. 

post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmsley View Post

People are suddenly interested in ____ if it came from Apple.  (Fill blank with anything).

 

Because we expect Apple to do certain things to/with ____ to redefine its position, purpose and use in the industry.  

 

For instance, mobile industry before iPhone, vs. mobile industry after iPhone. Very, very few people saw THAT kind of sea-change coming. But now, in retrospect, it seems hardly surprising. 

post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Sure I'd be interested in it.

I wouldn't buy it - after all, a television is basically a sewer pipe than empties into one's living room - but I'd definitely be interested in it.


 

Stop watching crap and you'll stop getting shit in your living room.
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post #52 of 68

"...more of a platform company that consumers find increasingly more difficult to leave."

 

These 'analysts' keep spinning it like this… 

 

I use Macs, iPhone, iPad… and it isn't that it's becoming more DIFFICULT to leave (which sort of implies that I'd want to?)… first, why would I want to leave it, when it's becoming EASIER to stay with the platform (aka ecosystem) with every iteration… it really is compelling me to stay, Apple isn't imprisoning me!

 

Second, considering the available alternatives, for me makes it still easier to stick with my Apple-based environment. I mean, Windows/WP and/or Chrome/Android? Two arguably interoperable platforms…? Linux? Well, OK…. 

 

So OK, Apple's platform is increasingly more difficult to leave … because it's so great, and it just works, and the technology gets out of my way and lets me do what I want to do with it…… 
post #53 of 68
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
"…more of a platform company that consumers find increasingly more difficult to find a reason to leave."

 

I think this is more what everyone's experiencing, don't you?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I was just remarking that the way TVs are currently sold is not conducive to Apple being able to demonstrate the unique features that would be necessary to differentiate themselves.

 

The last time I looked at TVs in the BB Store some were mounted on the wall perhaps 8-10 ft above eye level. Something will have to change about that environment to demonstrate things like Siri or aTV Internet connectivity which likely will be part of Apples unique offering. I just think people go to a store like that and they cannot properly evaluate the various models and just end up choosing by brand name recognition and price. Although Apple has the brand recognition, the price is likely to be higher than some others and the difference will be difficult to notice if it is mounted up high on some wall.

 

I could see Apple selling it exclusively at the Apple Retail Stores. Where they could have total control over how it's presented to an Apple friendly audience.

post #55 of 68

In order for me to spend any money on an Apple Television, it would have to be a minimum of 55", full 1080p (or higher, like 2k), and cost right around $1500.  Offering more that one size is also a good idea, and 42" is way too small these days.

 

Right now I can get a decent full 1080p LED lit 55" for less than $1500 and plug a $99 AppleTV box into it and be happy as a peach.  Apple will really have to bring something really amazing to the table, or it will be a big flop.

post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

 

I could see Apple selling it exclusively at the Apple Retail Stores. Where they could have total control over how it's presented to an Apple friendly audience.

I'm sure they would but the common practice in TV shopping these days is to go to a store that has all the brands so the customer can hopefully compare. Unfortunately all models are cast in the same bad light. A consumer cannot get a good idea of the quality or features of each in that setting. They can only listen to the salesperson. They either do research online and trust the review or they just select by choosing something they hope will be satisfactory. It is not like shopping for a car or a pair of shoes where you can get a good feel for the product. You really cant judge the quality of the picture on a TV until you get it home in your living room in a dimly lit environment. At the TV store half the time you can't even change the channel or find the remote for a model you might be considering. Because Apple will have to enter the TV market with sophisticated easy to use features they will need a different means of communicating that message than just having Best Buy mount it on a wall. Sure the Apple faithful will just go to the Apple Store but everyday consumers look for TVs at Best Buy. Even if they did put an Apple TV in the Apple section at Best Buy, the typical TV sales guy is not going to walk the customer from the TV department to the Computer department to show them the Apple product. I just see a lot of small obstacles in selling this thing. Even in the Apple Store this will be the first product that the consumer cannot just put in their car and set it up themselves. Apple is going to have to look at delivery and home installation services as well.

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post #57 of 68

This will be another industry Apple changes. We bought a Samsung "smart tv" after our old tv died. Smart is the last word Id use to describe it. It does very dumb things. It has an option to record a series but all it does is record the same channel at the same time every day, it ignores the TV guide that it downloads??? When recording you have the option to watch what you're recording, you cant watch another channel, whats the point of that? The samsung AllShare feature is nothing short of pathetic.

post #58 of 68

I was actually one of the people surveyed in this last week at the food court in the Mall of America. It was a college kid looking for people to survey---and yes I asked if he was working for Gene. The questioning was more than what was written here. They also asked, what other Apple products do I own, and more importantly, he listed of about 4 or 5 things to which I was to respond which feature was I most looking for --- 2-3 of these were different ways of connectivity. So Gene is of the belief that there will be some sort of connectivity as one of the major features. Changing channels by voice was another of the topics breached. When it came to pricing it was for a 47" TV to which I replied $2200. I knew I would be on the high end, but if the average was $530 I would say the numbers are not as realistic as Gene is painting them to be. Anyone with any knowledge of Apple products knows a 47" TV will never ring in at under $1000 let alone $1500. Let's get real, it will have  processors, hard drive, connectivity, etc. built into it and will be a work of art as well. Coupled with the fact that Apple needs fat margins, as I'm writing this I'm starting to think my $220 is more realistic. With 9" Ipads ringing up well over $530 I'm questioning who this kid was talking to. 

post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I agree about the size. Several years ago 42" seemed big, but now they seem really small. I don't have a huge house by any means, only 2,800 ft2 heated  which seems pretty average and my living room is about 650 ft2. My sofa and chairs sit about 18 feet from the TV and even my 65" TV I have now  seems small. When I have to replace my current set I will definitely not go smaller. I have a 42" Sony in my bedroom which is about 6 feet from the end of my bed on a wall mount and that seems about right. I doubt Apple will make an actual TV and focus on the box instead, but if they do I hope they would make a decent size one for a typical living room. 42" seems way too small for the living room of their target market. 

Dude that is not a normal size room or house. My family room is 18 x 22 and a 42" fits just right. We sit about 8 ft from the screen. I hate huge TVs in a room that has thoughtful decor. It really ruins the style of the room. I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.

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post #60 of 68
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.

 

I seriously, seriously doubt that.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post

There really is only one way that I can see them doing this, and differentiating themselves in any meaningful way: Implement Siri and FaceTime into the TV. Then it would be worth a premium price. Otherwise it is just another TV out there in a sea of other competitors.

I think you're on the right track.

I am convinced that TVs have gotten very close to the limit of what screen performance is going to do for most people. I already have a hard time telling the difference between DVD and BluRay most of the time from my normal viewing distance - and I think the same is true of lots of people.

There was a huge shift from B/W to color which caesed many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from VHS to DVD which caused many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from CRT to flat screen which caused many people to upgrade.
Even 720p to 1080p is noticeable by a lot of people (but not by all).
I just don't see screen or picture performance causing a huge push to upgrade.

Siri or FaceTime? Maybe
New UI. Maybe
Completely new capabilities. Sure

But it's going to be something on the features or UI side, not specs which drives Apple's focus in the business (if they enter it at all).
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post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I seriously, seriously doubt that.

I have read studies that say the largest percentage of Mac users live in urban areas. Larger sq, ft homes are usually found in suburban and rural areas. The average age of Mac users is considerably younger than it used to be and the average detached home owner vs. renter/condo dweller is unsurprisingly older due to current economic conditions. Builders are by in large building high density housing because large single family homes are not selling well at the moment. When you put all those numbers together smaller living spaces are the norm, especially worldwide. Apple is a global company so they consider things like that. 55" TVs are on the big side. I would imagine some people are convinced they need a 55"TV only to discover it is frickin' enormous once they get it home.

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post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I only have 3BR, but my office or exercise rooms could be bedrooms I suppose. Why not get a flip down ceiling lift like I have if you are worried about your décor. Stays completely hidden and invisible until you are ready to watch TV then flips down with a remote. They also make lifts that rise from cabinets if you prefer that. I don't know where you live, but I would say that the vast majority of middle and upper class people lives in house with 3 or more BR which would be the majority of my town. hell, even most lower income people have 3BR or larger  homes, just not as new or nice.  I live in a middle class neighborhood and my house is the smallest on the street by far. 

All I can say is you do not know anything about average living accommodations of people who are current Apple computer owners. NYC and SF alone probably have more affluent Apple customers than the entire rest of the US and the average home/condo size within those city limits is probably around 1200 sq ft. or less.

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post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Out of curiosity I looked it up. Average home sizes I am in Atlanta (metro population of about 5.5 million) so not that far off the average for my city. But I highly doubt NYC and SF come close to being more than half of Apple's customers in the U.S. 

Yes those statistics will be hard to quantify based on the size and diversity of the many US regions. Apple is the only one who knows the actual demographics but I do ask you to consider the global averages for home size when estimating what the best size TV might be for Apple to produce. Atlanta is generally considered oversized when it comes to home square footage. I won't bother doing and research but I am still convinced that your home size and living room size is much larger than average for the US and extremely so for Europe and Japan so that is what I base my estimates on. Apple's global presence and their tendency to make only a few variations of a model to serve the entire world seem to support a smaller to medium sized TV rather than huge TV.

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post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market. 

 think that is a decision for Apple marketing and I don;t suppose to out guess them since they seem to have their finger on the world pulse of consumer tech.

 

as I said previously, I'll be a possible Apple TV buyer a year or two from now at the earliest.

 

good discussing it with you, good night.

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post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
"…more of a platform company that consumers find increasingly more difficult to find a reason to leave."

 

I think this is more what everyone's experiencing, don't you?

 

That sums it up pretty well. :)

 

And it isn't like I'm struggling, weighing lots of pros and cons, making tons of compromises to remain where I am… In fact, at present I have not a SINGLE reason to even consider changing "platforms"… 


Yes, that does make it pretty darned difficult to leave… 
post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

{Citation needed, but can't be provided, as Apple doesn't make TVs.}

 

 

Which explains the $499 Apple TV box right now, doesn't it?

 

 

Made it more accurate for you. 😉

Hehe.... even then it's not like they're running on incredible margins. They're simply not running each other into the ground. They really are at trash level pricing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Because we expect Apple to do certain things to/with ____ to redefine its position, purpose and use in the industry.  

 

For instance, mobile industry before iPhone, vs. mobile industry after iPhone. Very, very few people saw THAT kind of sea-change coming. But now, in retrospect, it seems hardly surprising. 

You would have seen new things come out of the pipeline either way. You're really just so far off the majority of the time. What you should take note of is that Apple is really quite nimble for a company of their size, and they're very shrewd in their purchases. They've purchased a lot of very cool smaller companies. While I would've preferred to see these companies continue on as they were before as third parties, Apple has managed to implement quite a few things really well. Note some of HP's botched investments where they got rid of everyone who actually understood WebOS. While much of what they let out is still corporate speak, they've made adjustments to their strategies rather quickly at times, and the iphone leapfrogged the others in some ways. Even when the first one was way behind in features and application development, it was still incredibly popular. Your biggest mistake is interpreting what was on the market as the prime example of what would be seen two or three years later without it. Larger displays and touch screens would have been tested anyway. Pricing was trending downward. A few years before that the cost of color lcd displays was still remarkably high.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market. 


I've expected them to do something with it for a long time. It might be an issue of how long before the lighter hardware options built into the Apple TV can really power a full blown IOS system with acceptable performance. Other factors could be involved too.

post #68 of 68

I assume the biggest issue for everyone will be price so just put it into perspective with what apple already has out. Their LED display and 27 inch imac is the only thing apple has that at all resembles the capabilities of a T.V ( Unlike the 21.5 inch which doesn't really have any of the input options the display or 27 inch has :( ) and at 27 inches the price is 1,000/1,700 respectively, pretty much. So with that said what most people have said are right, if apple enters the t.v market it won't be to give you a t.v for less than 1 thousand, ( and do us all a favour and not try to promote apple tv as a tv because it is no more a tv than my blu ray player is) but it will probably be no less awesome than we expect to be. When apple enters a market they enter not just to survive in it but to be the leaders of it so expect to expand your apple eco system in a huge way. That is, if you're in the market for a TV over a grand at all. 

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