Apple files hint at re-engineered iMac and Mac Pro models, potentially without optical drives - Page 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

Except a Pixar movie. 😇

 

Kung Fu Panda 2 > Cars 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymouse 

But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.

 

I would rather have a SSD + HDD vs HDD/SSD + Optical.  In fact I've bought the spacers to make that conversion on my mini.

It is more problematic to do such a retrofit on an iMac.  If it came with a SSD + HDD BTO option (or stock) that would be MUCH better.

I'm also hoping for the 21.5" model to be replaced by a 23-24" model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I am [f]ine if they keep it in the desktop Macs because space isn't an issue but note they already made this move last year with the Mac mini. That is the proverbial shot across your bow.

Although the optical drive might still be useful for another 5 years as anonymous mentioned, that would be 5 years for a normal market transition. Perhaps Apple is trying to hasten the demise of the format by forcing Mac desktop users, and by inference, the rest of the industry to bail on it. That would actually benefit Apple because it would increase iTunes movie and music downloads since there would be no reason to buy a CD or DVD at Best Buy if you couldn't play it.

deleted

1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files. 

When I get one of these new iMacs.  I'm also going to get an external BluRay drive, and a 12 South backpack to hide it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkunicorn 

1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files. 

I don't trust the cloud, especially Apple's. My large files, such as archives going back 12 years or so are backed up at least 4 different places one of which is my own data center based server.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MessagePad2100 

When I get one of these new iMacs.  I'm also going to get an external BluRay drive, and a 12 South backpack to hide it.

Does OS X support BlueRay now?

Compromising a desktop to save a few millimetres is beyond insane, but then again, Apple hasn't been firing on all cylinders for some years now. 

If they take hard drive out, and go SSD only (with no option for an internal HD at all), then they really will have lost what little remained of their sanity.

Now I'll wait for the apologists who will say "well just buy an external HD and DVD burner, because that's just what will really make an all in one system look complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Guess that makes sense. Terrible hardware in a terrible package.

When it comes to peripherals they don't want to support, Apple puts out some terrible hardware. You shouldn't just bet on their external dvd drive being any better than the newegg one when there is a good chance it's made by the same company. Note some of the display dongles, the Apple Raid card, etc. Anytime it's not considered a mainstream item, they don't care. Check the reviews or read the comments on the Apple Store if you don't believe me.

I decided to look up that one specifically for a link. It actually seems to be better reviewed than I remember, although that is a surprise. Peripherals like this are one of those awkward things that typically get ignored.

http://store.apple.com/us/reviews/MD564ZM/A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin 


The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.

The mac pro is actually one of the cleaner machines out there if you're looking at the inside. Aesthetics shouldn't be a big deal anyway on these things. Things that matter are that cables won't take unnecessary long term damage due to their placement and that they do not get in the way if replacing a drive or adding something else. Are you suggesting the need to route cables forces their hand on case design here, as in they need space to tuck them away?

Not cool for those of us who do use the optical drive for our profession. I understand the reason behind the change, but on an iMac, that’s troubling to hear. Having a CD burned for photo archives for our clients is extremely important to us and to our clients. It’s cheaper than spending money on flash drives. Having the “option” to by a CD burner is pure BS. You can say all you want to about cloud backup, but nothing is more secure to a client than a physical CD with their photos, etc. 

A new Mac Mini with SSD hard drive to connect to my 27" LED Cinema Display looks like a perfect replacement for my 2008 Macbook unibody. The iPad has replaced the laptop for me in portability, but I will always want a Macintosh. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoetmb 

I was never paranoid about Apple, but this is about forcing people to use iTunes instead of listening/copying CDs or watching DVDs.

As well as pushing companies to use their App Store.

How long before you won't be able to obtain any software unless it comes from the App store ala iOS?

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Originally Posted by iSheldon 


Pffft- iMac needs a matte/ non glossy option way before a stupid tray option

Third-party opportunity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHarder 

There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...

I have you blocked but went ahead and clicked.

In short, my decision was sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rain 

 

As well as pushing companies to use their App Store.

How long before you won't be able to obtain any software unless it comes from the App store ala iOS?

You're right because there's absolutely no way to install software or view media on a Mac that did not originate from iTunes.

On your second notion, I believe you have it backwards. I believe that GateKeeper will come to iOS, allowing you to download software from other sources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pt123 

That is fine for Apple to remove their optical drive, just as long as people don't whine about internet usage caps. It comes with the territory (downloads).

I agree. Discs are still the cheapest way to load a lot of information into a computer. Note I said cheapest, not fastest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin 


The cables behind the fan assembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fgZXmscrP1E#t=56s
It changes the form factor too though and could cut costs further than $100 if the chassis can be cut down.
It's just one cable and it's only going to be used by a fraction of the users.
I think the Mac Pro should be redesigned as a personal supercomputer again:
- Single 6 or 8-core Ivy Bridge (Haswell if Intel does the right thing and skips IB)
- Intel MIC, some variant of Knights Landing with 1-2 TFLOPs x86 double precision
- high-end GPU (8970?) with unified memory so compute shares data with the other components, also 1-2 TFLOPs double precision
- no PCI slots but instead 6x 20Gbps Thunderbolt ports
- zero-config Thunderbolt chaining for parallel processing
- smaller form factor due to removal of PCI and optical (at most 2/3 the current size)
There would be a single model but possibly CPU options and it would be good if they worked with software developers like Adobe, Autodesk, Maxon, Pixar etc. to get the highest-end software optimized for the hardware. Apple can get Pixar to give them a scene from Toy Story 1 and render it on stage in real-time and then say that you now have the power of a render farm from 15 years ago inside a single tiny box. Then they demo the zero-config part and show the improvement. Then compare it to 'what you could have won' had they followed the linear path - a standard Dell/HP workstation and the new Mac Pro will blow it out the water.
Give it one last shot in the arm for the next few years before it goes the way of ole yeller.

Dell/HP use them as high margin units. Some of their consumer units are sold on terrible margins. The problem is that much of what you suggest would not likely play well together or fit good workstation setups. As for render farms, there are better ways to implement them at a high density level even for smaller shops. Larger shops would need all they can get given that feature animated films tend to go into millions of render hours. I'm guessing VFX would be more the market for the smaller solutions where they're kicking out a single scene. Ram becomes a huge factor for these things though. As to Thunderbolt, I can't see them fitting a 7970 in embedded form (8970 won't be out until later next year). It's quite large, and you would take up a lot of board area even if some of the cooling solutions it currently uses migrated off the card. This would also mean a custom card design for the mac pro, which I don't see happening. As for anything gained from removing an optical drive, Apple has been pushing up their per unit margins on the mac pro considerably. I imagine costs would be absorbed as they've slowly pushed it up and away from imac level pricing. Intel isn't skipping Ivy either. If anything it will push consumer haswell back. Right now Ivy is scheduled for early in the second half. If they went straight to haswell, there's no guarantee you'd see it prior to 2014 anyway.

As I already typed below, I enjoy your imaginative responses. They're just not always likely. I read them because they're not boring. Most of the posts on here require little brain power to generate. On the other hand, you go on about what could be possible, yet you actually provide details to your theories which make them fun to read even if I doubt their plausibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

🎯💯💵💶💷💴

But imagine how much whining there would be… 

That doesn't really make sense given that they can't be pooled anyway. It would break a lot of existing solutions without selling enough boxes. You'd have to somehow make up the cost to implement that many thunderbolt ports, which would likely mean a dual package board to get enough lanes after appropriate lanes are allocated to embedded graphics. Assuming intel is only certifying solutions which carry graphics, you wouldn't move all of that via one card anyway. This really becomes an outright clunky design, but I actually enjoy Marvin's wild imagination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHarder 

There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...

I highly doubt they will remove it, especially with so many begging the opposite & that is to add a blu-ray drive.  It didn't make sense to keep the drive on the mini because most people aren't using it in a desktop application.  More often it is used as a server, a media station, or for digital signage.

It's quite possible Apple may upgrade the external drive to blu-ray and go forward with a Mac Pro that is slimmer & axes the CD drive but I'd just be utterly shocked if they did.  It's their pro line, the people buying them want the expandability and don't care about how small & cute the thing is.  They want a workhorse with lots of options, trying to force them into a mold would be a dumb move (though they did already do it once with Final Cut).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich 

 

I agree. Discs are still the cheapest way to load a lot of information into a computer. Note I said cheapest, not fastest.

There are companies now that manufacture throw away USB sticks that are pretty stinking cheap, I'd be interested to know how those compare in overall production cost vs traditional CD media.

I know they lead in ditching things, which has turned out to be good, but I'm not ready to lose my optical drive on my desktop.

They should’ve put “TV40” in the .plist, just to watch people go crazy. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Reading, it has for years, writing, Final Cut can make even player-watchable movies (and I think the OS does data discs), playback, nope. Not natively, at least.

http://www.macblurayplayer.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin 

I think the Mac Pro should be redesigned as a personal supercomputer again:
 

The Mac Pro has never been a personal supercomputer so how would be one again?  It's been part of supercomputer clusters but it's no more a personal supercomputer than a PS3.

The Mac Pro has always been a high end workstation.

Fine although MICs may never go anywhere outside of...supercomputers/HPCs.  Which isn't the majority of Mac Pro installations.

No.  I could elaborate but we've been through this ad nauseum.  If nothing else I may want a different GPU and there are high end cards that want an 8+ lane slot.

Nifty but could be done with mini servers too for an even smaller footprint.

Which nobody really gives a shit about other than some desire for it to be rack mountable without using a hacksaw.

Given your architecture allows for "zero-config chaining via thunderbolt" then chaining together Core i7 Ivy Bridge Mac Mini Servers with GPU + MIC will work just as well in a form factor the size of the original Mac Mini, cost less AND most importantly, not **** up the Mac Pro for users that actually need a workstation.

You lose ECC ram but something like Dells reliable memory technology that can map bad bytes in DRAM might work well enough for a large percentage of use cases.

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/precn/en/Dell-Precision-workstation-Reliable-memory-technology-whitepaper.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sippincider 

They should’ve put “TV40” in the .plist, just to watch people go crazy. 

That would have been hilarious.  TV40, TV55 and TV70.

If Apple phases out optical drives for the rest of their hardware lineup, that will certainly shake up the industry.  Of course people who need optical drives can grab Apple's USB SuperDrive or use one of a wide variety of third-party optical drives for DVD and Blu-Ray read/writing.  It's one heck of a "dongle" to add to a desktop, but it is what it is.

Perhaps Apple will release first-party, user-friendly tools for "converting your DVDs to iTunes" and "converting your data CD/DVDs to disc images" allowing you to rip your optical media into MP4s and ISO/DMGs.

Perhaps Apple will extend the "Remote Disc" functionality seen in MacBook Airs to any PC/Mac running a host application to share its drive.

People peed themselves when Apple got rid of the Floppy.  We survived.  There were even third-party USB Floppy drives as temporary solution. (a fun "dongle")

We also survived Apple's killing of:

the ADB interface. (fix: buy a dongle)

Firewire 400 (and realistically 800, too). (fix: buy a dongle)

PCMCIA and ExpressCard slots on laptops. (fix: use the SD card slot or a USB-based card reader)

VGA-out and DVI-out (fix: buy a dongle)

Modems. (fix: buy a dongle)

Ethernet on select models (fix: buy a dongle)

We'll survive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Really? I love the idea of plug-and-speed computers. Don't have to get rid of your old one when you update, just set it on top of the new one and connect 'em both for an even faster machine.

 

 

There aren't protocols in place. Find me even one HPC solution that relies on a point to point PCI bridge system. Beyond that this wouldn't solve any issues of obsolescence. Consider that Apple drops current OS support for any given machine typically within 3-5 years. Their vintage policy dictates that all hardware service options cease between 5 and 7 years as per their vintage policy. On thunderbolt itself, the cabling and chips used will change over time. There are too many ways this could break in an OSX setting. If they wanted to set something up with a true clustering solution, there are better ways of doing it than thunderbolt. Given that Apple pronounced XGrid completely dead and did not offer post mortum solutions for licensing source code, I would suggest they've shown little interest in this market. The problem I see here at times is the lack of reconciliation between what can be imagined and what would make a practical working solution.  For anything of that sort, it would be imperative that it's done well. Whenever a project is floundering, it gets little attention from Apple. On that basis I don't think it's a good idea unless they can transform it into something highly profitable in Apple terms. A half supported solution like this would just be bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vandil 

If Apple phases out optical drives for the rest of their hardware lineup, that will certainly shake up the industry.  Of course people who need optical drives can grab Apple's USB SuperDrive or use one of a wide variety of third-party optical drives for DVD and Blu-Ray read/writing.  It's one heck of a "dongle" to add to a desktop, but it is what it is.

 

Perhaps Apple will release first-party, user-friendly tools for "converting your DVDs to iTunes" and "converting your data CD/DVDs to disc images" allowing you to rip your optical media into MP4s and ISO/DMGs.

 

Perhaps Apple will extend the "Remote Disc" functionality seen in MacBook Airs to any PC/Mac running a host application to share its drive.

 

People peed themselves when Apple got rid of the Floppy.  We survived.  There were even third-party USB Floppy drives as temporary solution. (a fun "dongle")

 

We also survived Apple's killing of:

the ADB interface. (fix: buy a dongle)

Firewire 400 (and realistically 800, too). (fix: buy a dongle)

PCMCIA and ExpressCard slots on laptops. (fix: use the SD card slot or a USB-based card reader)

VGA-out and DVI-out (fix: buy a dongle)

Modems. (fix: buy a dongle)

Ethernet on select models (fix: buy a dongle)

 

We'll survive.

You're being overly dramatic. Dongles aren't a good solution. They're merely a stop-gap solution at best. Express slots can actually provide faster transfer rates than TB at lower costs.  In terms of shaking up the industry, Apple removing an optical drive will not have any real effect on the others unless they're looking for an excuse to trim their costs. The silliest of these is the ethernet dongle concept. You really should look up the purpose and features of ethernet.