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Apple files hint at re-engineered iMac and Mac Pro models, potentially without optical drives - Page 3

post #81 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Apple is constantly looking for ways to cut costs.  Making things thinner, even iMacs, reduces the amount of material use which saves them money.  Eliminate the optical drive will save them tons of money.

 

 

Excellent point...Seems obvious now...I thought Apple just liked extra thin things. But the more weight they can shave off the iMac the less avgas is used on the 747's getting them here from china. :)

post #82 of 253

build to order option!! Those that want it can have it! I'd rather have room for ssd drives!

post #83 of 253

They may even keep the current iMac with the ODD...and the newest iMac will be thinner sans the ODD. Rather like the MBP? Just say'n

post #84 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

to be perfectly honest, I covet the large screen iMac, too. I have the orig. intel 20" white iMac running SL...i bought the latest Apple BT KB and have the Apple BT MagicPad.

I was in an Apple store recently and I really like the improvements Apple has made to Safari in Lion and pretty much everything else in Lion. Or maybe it was ML. Anyway...they are, indeed, exquisite machines! 1smile.gif

It's just that I keep my MBP at home so much now with the other two devices in my possession. You get so much more for less money it finally makes sense. I predicted this might happen back in 2010 when the iPad came out, but I wasn't sure I'd be one to fall into that category.

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #85 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's just that I keep my MBP at home so much now with the other two devices in my possession. You get so much more for less money it finally makes sense. I predicted this might happen back in 2010 when the iPad came out, but I wasn't sure I'd be one to fall into that category.

Good problems to have! :)

 

I agree, the iPhone, a wifi iPad (7"), iCloud and a big screen ATV....we may just be able to get all that for the price of iMac. And if one can work it out so they don't need a full fledged computer...all the better. 

 

Hard to give up the desire for a beautiful iMac are your desk though! :)

post #86 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


 I assume that Mac users likely live in areas with decent power grids.

 

L.A. has rolling blackouts at times. Is L.A. considered a "decent" place? :D

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #87 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn View Post

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/storage 

 

The fact that you can already buy a 1tb hard drive for around $100 means that they will soon be $50, and then $25 ect ect. Also a hard drive is far smaller than a stack of dvds (especially if you have cases) and easier to organize. Hello the future... I mean present. 

The problem with hard drives is that they can go bad sitting on the shelf.  You go to plug it in and - pfftt, nothing.  Not reliable long term storage.  SSD memory can be damaged by Cosmic Rays.  Current day optical is not very long lived either.  That leaves LTO tape which is archival, but prohibitively expensive.

 

Seems like Internet 2 and cloud storage is the way to go.

post #88 of 253
The Mac Pro has enough room to house a floppy disk. And yet it doesn't have one.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #89 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Why is it necessary for a desktop? If my power were to go out (something I can't recall happening in the last decade) my WiFi and cable modem would be out of commission so it's a moot point. I assume that Mac users likely live in areas with decent power grids. If it is an issue what percentage of Mac users do you think it would affect? How many desktop units does that amount to. If the Mac Pro/Power Mac has never had one then why expect it in the iMac which is already compact and isn't what I think Apple would call a mission critical machine that needs to capture every change that might have happened within the last couple seconds. It all just sounds like more hassle and cost than it's worth. I certainly don't want to pay for it.
2) Remember that components in a notebook are designed to power efficient for a battery. The 2.5" HDD runs off of USB power. A 3.5" HDD doesn't. Then there is the screen. How much more power does a 27" display need over a notebook? Then there is the CPU, GPU and other components.
  • 11" MBA — 45W
  • 13" MBA — 45W
  • 13" MBP — 60W
  • 15" MBP — 85W
  • 21.5" iMac — 205W
  • 27" iMac — 310W
Do these scale perfectly? Are there technical issues with the amount of power needed? I have to think that UPS batteries weigh as much as a car battery and yet supply so little time for a reason.

 

I don't think he's talking about a battery that lasts 7 hours. Just one that works for 15 minutes in a 'minimal use' mode. You know, brightness minimal, unused wifi/Blutooth shutdown, automatically stop playing media content, eject disks and other drives and tell the user he has 15 minutes before the computer will power off.

post #90 of 253

This is ridiculous.   I don't even like the fact that they're removing optical drives from the laptops, but at least in a laptop, there's a rationale:  to make them thinner/lighter or to be able to give more space to the battery.  There is no reason whatsoever to remove optical drives from the iMac or the MacPro.    Space is not an issue.    There are still plenty of reasons for some people to use optical drives (I use them constantly) and they're so inexpensive that it doesn't really add more than a few dollars to the price.

 

And don't tell me I can get an external drive.     Apple is anal about how their computers look, but it's okay to have another stupid box sitting on my table that could have been in the computer the whole time?   This is insanity.     If they don't want to include it in the base configuration, fine, but it needs to be an option.      

 

I was never paranoid about Apple, but this is about forcing people to use iTunes instead of listening/copying CDs or watching DVDs.    An ethical company would still give me the choice.      I could live with Apple not supporting Blu-ray, since if I buy a Blu-ray movie, I want to watch it on a big screen anyway, but I will be really pissed if they do go ahead and remove the optical drive from all their machines.    I do a lot of audio work and it's much more convenient for people to send me the source files on CD than it is for them to use DropBox or whatever.   The uncompressed files are simply too big.   

 

Apple is lucky that Wintel machines are so freaking bad because if they weren't, I would give thought to switching.   And that's after being a Mac user since the very first Mac and an Apple user since around 1979.    That combined with this bug laden release of Mountain Lion is really pissing me off!   I always said that Apple would never turn into Microsoft, but it sure seems to be happening.  

post #91 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by zoetmb in 1997 View Post
There is no reason whatsoever to remove ADB ports from Macs.

 

*ahem*


And don't tell me I can get an external drive.

 

Hey, you can always… oh.

 

I was never paranoid about Apple, but this is about forcing people to use iTunes instead of listening/copying CDs or watching DVDs. An ethical company would still give me the choice.

 

{reference to other pointless, old, discontinued tech that absolutely no one uses anymore in the same format as my first quote}

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #92 of 253

Windows is currently no different that Apple on this.  Even in Windows 7 you must use third party software to watch (commercial) BluRay.  There is finally third party software on the mac that WORKS called "Mac BluRay Player".  The only caveat is that it needs you have to have an internet connection for it to get the initial key to decode it.  I use this and Avatar looks amazing on my Mac.  It's about time that some developer has stepped up.  But, to leave no option for an internal optical drive on the pro might be a mistake.  It's not just about Watching DVD's on a pro machine,  but it's about producing.  While there is still a market for BluRay, Final Cut X does offer the option to author a BluRay as does toast etc..

 

Where BluRay is concerned, Apple has taken a lot of steps in the direction to have hardware compliancy with BluRay standards because these are the same standards set upon iTunes media by the movie studios.  For example all of Apple's current monitors are now HDCP compliant as Mini Display Port and even Thurnderbolt support this standard.  Apple may still do a 180 and write the own software player.  They could sell it as an option in the Mac Store so that those people wanting to pay more money for a software player could do it.  This way if you want to play a BluRay on it, you can, but you don't have too buy the player and pay extra if you don't wan it.  Just my 2 cents.

post #93 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...

It'll probably become a BTO option. Desktop systems don't need optical drives anymore unless the system itself is being used to burn media. Apple doesn't sell BD units, and DVD units are no longer standard on anything but the cheapest Windows machines.

post #94 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post

Well, hopefully they make a blu-ray external Superdrive. :/

 

Hope? Go get an internal one now:

http://fastmac.com/slim_bluray.php

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #95 of 253

If its technically feasible i would prefer Apple to do some design innovation and use the space available by removing the Superdrive, in providing an ultra efficient active cooling system which will be able to cool down a desktop class Graphics processor. so the new iMac could have a desktop class graphics instead of the current Mobile version which has half the performance of its desktop class GPU. Apple don't have to rely on the stock Desktop GPU design. They can come up with a more space efficient design cooled by the state of the art cooling system designed into the space available by getting rid of the Superdrive.

 

If Apple can manage to include a desktop class GPU in the iMac, they will be a winner hands down.

post #96 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by sapam View Post
Apple don't have to rely on the stock Desktop GPU design.

 

Yeah, they do. They only have control over cooling and the case if they use a standard GPU. They can only do very little, if anything, with the PCB.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #97 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Why haven't you used HandBrake to copy those videos to your drive? DVDs are MPEG-2. MPEG-2!!!!!!! MPEG-2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't expect anyone to scrap their DVDs but if you have a method of ripping them that allows the media to be slower and ported everywhere easily they why not use it?


Because those transcoded movie files take up hard disk space.

post #98 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
Because those transcoded movie files take up hard disk space.

 

A terabyte HDD is under $100. I know that printing plastic discs is cheaper than NAND or even spinning disk media, but the latter will last you far longer.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #99 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

And think of the future he proposes: scratch a disc at all, lose a terabyte of data.

 

Scratch a hard drive, you have a metal case with a scratch in it and data that would laugh if it were sentient.


Scratch a disc, lose one movie. Scratch a disk, lose all your movies. Woo-hoo/

post #100 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
Scratch a disc, lose one movie. Scratch a disk, lose all your movies. Woo-hoo

 

Losing any data for any reason at any time is your fault this side of, what do we want to say, 2006? Nothing is backed up unless you have two copies beyond the original.

 

Buy three hard drives, make three copies, keep one in your machine, one in your basement, and one outside your home. You can have about a thousand 1080p movies in the space of two decks of cards with incredible access times and you still think that discs are a better solution?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #101 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I know SJ hates optical drives. His NeXT box, which I used in college, was bogged down by that finicky recordable optical disk. It would spin up and down constantly and eventually died. I'm surprised he didn't make Apple an ODD free zone before he died.

 

Steve Jobs made millions on Disney movies on disc so I would doubt he hates optical drives. I am sure he loved optical drives, but he loved getting people to switch to downloads so they could buy the movies again.

post #102 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

A terabyte HDD is under $100. I know that printing plastic discs is cheaper than NAND or even spinning disk media, but the latter will last you far longer.


Problem is at first I got a 500GB HD for $100, then it ran out of space and I spent another $100 for 1TB HD. Then another $100 for a 2TB HD. Spending a lot just to consolidate movies that I already own.

post #103 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
Problem is at first I got a 500GB HD for $100, then it ran out of space and I spent another $100 for 1TB HD. Then another $100 for a 2TB HD. Spending a lot just to consolidate movies that I already own.

 

Ownership isn't the issue here. Increase of (physical) storage space, increase in seek times, no need to physically mess with discs, and availability on any device anywhere at any time is the issue here.

 

Do you really want an optical drive in your iPhone?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #104 of 253

This forum software really needs to enable us to block not just regular users but also a Global Moderator. Just saying. I've had about enough of this loose cannon.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #105 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Losing any data for any reason at any time is your fault this side of, what do we want to say, 2006? Nothing is backed up unless you have two copies beyond the original.

 

Buy three hard drives, make three copies, keep one in your machine, one in your basement, and one outside your home. You can have about a thousand 1080p movies in the space of two decks of cards with incredible access times and you still think that discs are a better solution?


Yes, definitely my fault if I go the download route. But I just buy the disc and rip to the HD. The disc is the backup and I do not have to pay for the extra HD.

post #106 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Ownership isn't the issue here. Increase of (physical) storage space, increase in seek times, no need to physically mess with discs, and availability on any device anywhere at any time is the issue here.

 

Do you really want an optical drive in your iPhone?


No, I would rather have an HD in my iPhone. So by does the question of wanting an optical drive on my iPhone really apply to whether I want it on my iMac? I mean optical drive won't fit in my pocket protector but I kinda still want it.


Edited by pt123 - 8/9/12 at 10:13pm
post #107 of 253
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
This forum software really needs to enable us to block not just regular users but also a Global Moderator. Just saying. I've had about enough of this loose cannon.

 

Pyew pyew. 💥

 

"YOU'RE OFF THE CASE, CALLAHAN!" "BUT CHIEF, I CAN GET THIS GUY!" "CALLAHAN, YOU'RE A LOOSE CANNON!"

 

Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
Yes, definitely my fault if I go the download route. But I just buy the disc and rip to the HD. The disc is the backup and I do not have to pay for the extra HD.

 

So buy the hard drive, use it as your primary, and put the discs in a storage unit on the south side of town as your backup.

 

Originally Posted by pt123 View Post
No, I would rather have an HD in my iPhone.

 

Right. And this is the question the people at Apple are asking themselves internally, and the one which they have been for at least the past five years since the whole Blu-ray fiasco started. Apple has decided, starting with the most recent Mac Mini, that the time has come in which they would rather not have an optical drive in all of their products, not just the handheld ones.

 

Remember that PC tablets used to have optical drives. They called themselves tablets. Now Apple is working up the scale, removing the ODD as they go, because it has served its purpose in their devices.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #108 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Remember that PC tablets used to have optical drives. They called themselves tablets. Now Apple is working up the scale, removing the ODD as they go, because it has served its purpose in their devices.

That is fine for Apple to remove their optical drive, just as long as people don't whine about internet usage caps. It comes with the territory (downloads).

post #109 of 253

I guess everyone glossed over the exciting innovation occurring (or soon to occur) with Apple's keyboards. I, for one, am titillated.

 
post #110 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamacguy View Post

I can't wait to see how your going to play those 4K movie files in the next couple of years without an optical drive...

If you really believe what you're saying, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.
post #111 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

For those who need an optical disc drive -- you can buy an external USB ODD from apple for $79.

 

Bingo.  Casual users can occasionally plug in their Apple USB Superdrive.  Families can share a SuperDrive on an older Mac with one built-in.

 

Oh, and for the "pro" whiners who claim they need an internal drive, do you really want to burn out that internal drive?

It's not user-replaceable, on either the iMac or older MacBook Pro.  Costs a whole lot more than $79 to replace.

 

Trust me.  I know.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #112 of 253
OK. On a related note, why is there nothing in iOS6 so far that points to 16:9 screen? Or did I miss it?
post #113 of 253

I'm an old fart and I love hard, physical copies of my media so part of me is dismayed but another part of me sees this as the future of computing - no odd's & everything pretty much available via digital download. Pretty exciting time to be sure. Once again Apple is leading the way while the others follow and play catch-up.

post #114 of 253
With a bit of luck this re-design to the iMac might fix the glaring design flaw of every new shaped model.

It's not much to ask is it. Sort out your LCD panels and seal them Apple. I think we'll hit over 200 iMac's going back to Apple this year for new screens and glass. A pathetic embarrassment is all the iMac currently is.

If you can't use it without the screen picking up dust waves in it and staining the screen. What's the point? You've only had a few years Apple. You have changed enough of the screens and know about the issue.

For Christ sake sort it out!! It cannot be that difficult. I'd be tempted to get a new one, but I won't pay for something so obviously flawed. There a waste of money.

Until then I will stick to black marking the iMac as flawed and advise people to stay away from it. Especially as a personal purchase. Always buy the APP as well. You'll need it.
post #115 of 253
There is no way IN HELL that the Mac Pro is losing it's optical drive unless they replace it with something like another PCI bay or just put another SSD there.

 

 


Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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Tim Cook using Galaxy Tabs as frisbees

 

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post #116 of 253

I could understand it if they remove the DvD from the imac's, but since the MacPro is a tower I think it should keep the drive. 

post #117 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedicivalvole View Post

With a bit of luck this re-design to the iMac might fix the glaring design flaw of every new shaped model.
It's not much to ask is it. Sort out your LCD panels and seal them Apple. I think we'll hit over 200 iMac's going back to Apple this year for new screens and glass. A pathetic embarrassment is all the iMac currently is.
If you can't use it without the screen picking up dust waves in it and staining the screen. What's the point? You've only had a few years Apple. You have changed enough of the screens and know about the issue.
For Christ sake sort it out!! It cannot be that difficult. I'd be tempted to get a new one, but I won't pay for something so obviously flawed. There a waste of money.
Until then I will stick to black marking the iMac as flawed and advise people to stay away from it. Especially as a personal purchase. Always buy the APP as well. You'll need it.

 

I agree that imacs picking up dust from the inside of the glass is a design flaw.  My 2009 imac broke 2 times (GPU and HD) and both times the Apple tech were nice to completly clean up the inside side of the glass and the screen. If they wouldnt the glass would now be permanently stain from the inside. In fact a small part the screen is a bit stain despite the cleaning, but it doesnt show up when the screen is on.

 

 

The tech told me that after some time the dust cooks on the screen and stain it. Imo if you have imacs and the apple care you may ask tech support if they can do a clean up free of charge.


Edited by herbapou - 8/10/12 at 5:37am
post #118 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 
And think of the future he proposes: scratch a disc at all, lose a terabyte of data.

Not to mention the requirement to burn a full disc at once to get the value out of it, the slow burn times and possibility of failure. Even at the fastest DL speeds (8x), a 50GB Blu-Ray disc will take over 30 minutes to burn and 30 minutes to verify and you'd be lucky to get discs and a burner that runs at 8x. Any failure can be detected during that hour of burn time.

Meanwhile a HDD takes 15 minutes to copy 50GB and an SSD can take as little as 2 minutes.

For cases like video authoring and distribution, optical makes sense and that was the original intention for it - it used to be bundled with the iMac DV machine for iMovie authoring.

For home users, authoring online is more convenient now. Not necessarily Youtube but Kodak, Flickr, Facebook etc.
For personal data backups, HDDs and SSDs are much less frustrating and much faster.
For everything else, external drives are better because you can buy upgrades as new drives become available. If Apple shipped a Blu-Ray drive with the iMac, it would be 4x slot loading and cost $200-300 if you're lucky. You can get a USB 3 12x burner on Amazon for $140.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 
Steve Jobs made millions on Disney movies on disc so I would doubt he hates optical drives.

He was also a member of the Bu-Ray board:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/03/10Blu-ray-Disc-Association-Welcomes-Apple-to-Its-Board-of-Directors.html

but if it's not a viable option, none of that matters. Times change and consumer habits change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou 
I could understand it if they remove the DvD from the imac's, but since the MacPro is a tower I think it should keep the drive.

The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.
post #119 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...

 

 

I agree I use both the DVD player and burner on my desk top Mac. Further, I use the CD player. I think the move would be bad unless Apple offered an updated current model. 

post #120 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.

 

Internal cabling mess? I haven't looked inside a Mac Pro for a few months, but as I recall, "Mac Pro" and "cabling mess" are contradictory terms. I also don't think $100 matters a bit to someone buying a Mac Pro. On the other hand, as long as you can tuck your own into the case, it hardly matters.

 

But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.

 

And, I don't really think the optical drive is at all analogous to the floppy drive. Floppy drives were small, files were getting larger, to the point where the floppy drive was becoming somewhat useless. Optical disks can still hold a significant amount of data, even by today's standards, and, unlike floppy disks, they have uses that go beyond personal data storage. While it makes sense to remove them from laptops, for weight and battery considerations, I think there are still quite a few years ahead where a good number of people will want to pop an optical disk into their computers to rip or watch it, and they'd be happier not having it as an external device.

 

If it could be made a BTO option, that would be fine, but I think the optical drive, as a desirable internal device for desktop systems, still has about 5 years of life left in it.

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