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Court docs reveal Samsung sold 21M phones, 1.4M tablets worth $8B in US since 2010

post #1 of 115
Thread Starter 
A court document filed by Samsung on Thursday revealed the company's smartphone and tablet sales numbers from June 2010 to June 2012, metrics that have been kept strictly confidential until now.

Apple v. Samsung presiding Judge Lucy Koh's order of an open trial, which previously yielded Apple iPhone and iPad prototypes, revealed detailed financials of both companies during the two-year span under review in the court case. Samsung's sales numbers are of particular interest given the company does not release specific figures in its quarterly reports.

The joint trial exhibit, first discovered by All Things D, shows Samsung sold 21.25 million smartphones between June 2010 and June 2012, generating revenue of about $7.5 billion. Among the top sellers was the Galaxy S II, which sold over 4.1 million copies, bringing in $1.85 billion and the Galaxy Prevail with 2.25 million unit sales.

The biggest individual seller, not including the Galaxy S II which was branded differently for the nation's various carriers, was the Epic 4G's revenue of $855 million on 1.89 million unit sales since the device went on sale in third quarter of 2010. Coming in second was the Epic 4G Touch, a Galaxy S II variant that went on sale a year after the Epic 4G, which sold 1.67 million units to bring in $764 million.

It should be noted that not all of Samsung's product lineup is represented in the figures, only those which are alleged as infringing Apple's patents.

Samsung Smartphone Sales
Source: Apple v. Samsung court documents


Samsung's tablets, including the Galaxy Tab, Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Galaxy Tab 10.1 LTE, didn't perform nearly as well and managed to rack up only $644 million on 1.43 million sales since the fourth quarter of 2010. By contrast, Apple sold 34 million iPads on revenues of $19 billion since the first generation device launched in the third quarter of 2010.

Samsung Tablet Sales
Source: Apple v. Samsung court documents


While not as detailed as Samsung's, Apple's numbers were also revealed on Thursday and are broken into three categories: iPhone, iPad and iPod touch.

Apple Sales
Source: Apple v. Samsung court documents


A number of internal documents from both parties have made their way to the public, including a recent Samsung side-by-side comparison of its Galaxy S smartphone and Apple's iPhone. Most recently, an internal report commissioned by Samsung revealed that over half of the viewers watching its TV commercials thought the ads were for Apple's iPad.

Apple v. Samsung is slated to continue on Friday with testimony from Apple expert witnesses.
post #2 of 115

The numbers… what a windfall.

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post #3 of 115
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post
Are you continuously hitting refresh?

 

Yes. That's also not a joke. This place is sort of getting me through a rough patch. 😑 But enough of that. Let's talk about what this means!

Has Apple been made to release its numbers yet? I'm dreadfully curious to compare the iPhone 4S and the five flavors of S III (Epic 4G Touch Super Ultra Great Delicious Wonderful Bad Edition).

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post #4 of 115
By my calculations that is about $350 revenue per device. That's pretty damn low.

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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes. That's also not a joke.

How about writing a script that will do it for you and notify you of a change to the site.

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post #5 of 115
So when we hear these 50M+ numbers that includes A LOT of non-smartphones?
post #6 of 115
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
How about writing a script that will do it for you and notify you of a change to the site.

 

Oh, it moves fast enough that by the time I've read through all of the new posts in existing threads, articles in new threads, and made any replies I see fit that there're new ones again. Except on the weekends. lol.gif

 

Something like a Forum Spy like MacRumors has would be neat, but I wouldn't imagine Huddler would have that, since they lack so much other. 


Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
So when we hear these 50M+ numbers that includes A LOT of non-smartphones?
 

Well, these are just the products accused of infringement, and they look to be just under half of that, so unless there are Samsung smartphones that do not infringe, yes, they don't seem to sell many smartphones at all. 

 

Now, are these just US sales or worldwide sales? I guess it doesn't matter in terms of 'damages per phone'; if the phone is infringing, it doesn't matter where it's sold, but enforcing bans elsewhere would be (legally, right?) impossible… 

 

Ah, seems it is just US sales.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 8/9/12 at 6:23pm

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post #7 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The joint trial exhibit, first discovered by All Things D, shows Samsung sold 21.25 million smartphones between June 2010 and June 2012, generating revenue of about $7.5 billion.

ROTFLMAO.

What happened to all the estimates that Samsung was selling 35 M smart phones per year? Funny how they don't mind people talking about numbers like that, but as soon as it comes to possibly paying royalties, the real numbers come out.

Apple, meanwhile, sold around 150 M iPhones during that time period. Heck, they probably sold more iPads than Samsung sold smartphones.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/12743/worldwide-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/
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post #8 of 115
http://allthingsd.com/20120809/apple-vs-samsung-trial-forces-companies-to-open-up-the-books/

The documents filed Thursday show Apple’s phone and tablet sales as well, though the sales are only classified into iPhone, iPad and iPod touch.

From 2007 through the second quarter of 2012, Apple sold a total of 85 million iPhones in the U.S., worth a total of $50 billion in revenue, along with 46 million iPod touches producing roughly $10.3 billion in revenue. From its 2010 launch, Apple sold 34 million iPads, generating $19 billion in revenue.
post #9 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

 

Tallest Skil, I am always amazed how fast you comment (your quite often first). This story was just posted seconds ago. Are you continuously hitting refresh? (btw, not asking in a mean spirited trollish type of way. Just curious).

 

He also manages to do the same on 9to5mac, which I discovered just today. Kind of gets the same reactions from people too.  It's rather..fascinating. 

post #10 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How about writing a script that will do it for you and notify you of a change to the site.

I find yahoo pipes are pretty handy for that sort of thing. 

http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.edit

post #11 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


ROTFLMAO.
What happened to all the estimates that Samsung was selling 35 M smart phones per year? Funny how they don't mind people talking about numbers like that, but as soon as it comes to possibly paying royalties, the real numbers come out.
Apple, meanwhile, sold around 150 M iPhones during that time period. Heck, they probably sold more iPads than Samsung sold smartphones.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/12743/worldwide-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

 

These are Samsung's Android phones. It's not including Windows phones and others.

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post #12 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


ROTFLMAO.
What happened to all the estimates that Samsung was selling 35 M smart phones per year? Funny how they don't mind people talking about numbers like that, but as soon as it comes to possibly paying royalties, the real numbers come out.
Apple, meanwhile, sold around 150 M iPhones during that time period. Heck, they probably sold more iPads than Samsung sold smartphones.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/12743/worldwide-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/


Reading the title of the article should've told you that these are US numbers only. Same goes with what Apple provided. Further reading tells you it is only phones are accused by Apple to infringe.

post #13 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufwa View Post


Reading the title of the article should've told you that these are US numbers only. Same goes with what Apple provided. Further reading tells you it is only phones are accused by Apple to infringe.

It doesn't matter. It's still far, far lower than the number of iPhones that Apple sold in the US. So all the "Samsung sold more smartphones than Apple" stories were nonsense. You'd think that people would learn that making numbers up doesn't serve anyone.
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post #14 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It doesn't matter. It's still far, far lower than the number of iPhones that Apple sold in the US. So all the "Samsung sold more smartphones than Apple" stories were nonsense. You'd think that people would learn that making numbers up doesn't serve anyone.
I'm sure they have worldwide, but it would be interesting to see how many we're smartphones vs cheap feature phones.
post #15 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

It doesn't matter. It's still far, far lower than the number of iPhones that Apple sold in the US. So all the "Samsung sold more smartphones than Apple" stories were nonsense. You'd think that people would learn that making numbers up doesn't serve anyone.

You can't determine that based on US data alone.

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post #16 of 115

Ha ha ha..... 1.4M tabets versus 34M sold. That is, a 4:96 ratio, matching up with the hard data we have from proxy indicators such as web traffic.

 

I hope the relentless fandroids will now shut up for good, and stop quoting the absolutely dumb shipment numbers trotted out by the absolutely dumb consulting firms for their gullible and the hopeful clients.

post #17 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You can't determine that based on US data alone.

A couple of days ago there was a report (IDC?) that claimed Android with nearly 70% of the EU smartphone market with Apple around 17%. Guess which Android licensee is #1? Even in China where Samsung isn't nearly the market presence as in other areas, they still lead Apple 3:1 in smartphone sales according to market research from back in March. The US is really the only large market where Apple has such a large percentage of smartphone sales. Of course most of the profit is probably coming from the US too.

 

As Soli said, projecting worldwide sales based on just US figures isn't even remotely reliable. The rest of the world isn't sharing the same metrics.

 

BTW, I think the reason only US sales are being shown is because those are the only ones that apply to this case with regard to possible damages. What Samsung does in the rest of the world isn't part of this suit and thus doesn't matter.

 

Edit for added links

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-11/iphone-fails-to-gain-china-share-as-samsung-lead-triples-tech.html

http://finchannel.com/Main_News/Tech/114030_Android_Takes_Majority_Smartphone_Share_Across_Western_Europe/


Edited by Gatorguy - 8/9/12 at 7:15pm
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post #18 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

 

These are Samsung's Android phones. It's not including Windows phones and others.

Yeah, I am sure that including those will change the picture quite significantly. lol.gif

post #19 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

ROTFLMAO.
What happened to all the estimates that Samsung was selling 35 M smart phones per year? Funny how they don't mind people talking about numbers like that, but as soon as it comes to possibly paying royalties, the real numbers come out.
Apple, meanwhile, sold around 150 M iPhones during that time period. Heck, they probably sold more iPads than Samsung sold smartphones.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/12743/worldwide-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

These are US numbers only not worldwide.
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post #20 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

http://allthingsd.com/20120809/apple-vs-samsung-trial-forces-companies-to-open-up-the-books/
The documents filed Thursday show Apple’s phone and tablet sales as well, though the sales are only classified into iPhone, iPad and iPod touch.
From 2007 through the second quarter of 2012, Apple sold a total of 85 million iPhones in the U.S., worth a total of $50 billion in revenue, along with 46 million iPod touches producing roughly $10.3 billion in revenue. From its 2010 launch, Apple sold 34 million iPads, generating $19 billion in revenue.

 

Very interesting numbers:

 

2011:

 

Samsung:  12M units and $4B revenue

Apple: 32M units and $20B revenue

 

First half of 2012:

 

Samsung:  4.5M units and $1.5B revenue

Apple: 19M units and $12B revenue

 

Means Apples has been outselling Samsung in the US:

 

by 2.7x in units and by 5x in revenue in 2011.

by 4x in units and by 8x in revenue in 2012.

 

Ouch!

post #21 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ha ha ha..... 1.4M tabets versus 34M sold. That is, a 4:96 ratio, matching up with the hard data we have from proxy indicators such as web traffic.

I hope the relentless fandroids will now shut up for good, and stop quoting the absolutely dumb shipment numbers trotted out by the absolutely dumb consulting firms for their gullible and the hopeful clients.

Honestly I'm actually surprised it's that much.
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post #22 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

A couple of days ago there was a report (IDC?) that claimed Android with nearly 70% of the EU smartphone market with Apple around 17%. Guess which Android licensee is #1? Even in China where Samsung isn't nearly the market presence as in other areas, they still lead Apple 3:1 in smartphone sales according to market research from back in March. The US is really the only large market where Apple has such a large percentage of smartphone sales. Of course most of the profit is probably coming from the US too.

 

As Soli said, projecting worldwide sales based on just US figures isn't even remotely reliable. The rest of the world isn't sharing the same metrics.

 

BTW, I think the reason only US sales are being shown is because those are the only ones that apply to this case with regard to possible damages. What Samsung does in the rest of the world isn't part of this suit and thus doesn't matter.

Give up man. Go tout your wares elsewhere. Chances are, if you guys and your silly data providers have such wildly incorrect numbers here in the US, it's equally -- if not more -- poorly estimated worldwide. Who cares if Samsung outsells Apple in those markets: these sorts of hard data tell us that Samsung is nowhere near the numbers you guys hyperventilate about, and they're selling them for a pittance per handset compared to Apple. SolipsismX's comments notwithstanding.

post #23 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Very interesting numbers:

2011:

Samsung:  12M units and $4B revenue
Apple: 32M units and $20B revenue
 
First half of 2012:

Samsung:  4.5M units and $1.5B revenue
Apple: 19M units and $12B revenue

Means Apples has been outselling Samsung in the US:

by 2.7x in units and by 5x in revenue in 2011.
by 4x in units and by 8x in revenue in 2012.

Ouch!

Apple's outselling everyone. What's your point?
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post #24 of 115

Wow. Unprecedented move by Apple. You can bet the Apple analysts will be using this to drive the stock price up, down and all around.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #25 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Apple's outselling everyone. What's your point?

 

Did not think by that much...

post #26 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

Did not think by that much...

Ahh gotcha, pay attention and it wouldn't be news to you. Apple's in a league onto itself. For a better reference look to see how Samsung is doing compared to the likes of Motorola, LG, HTC, Nokia, etc..
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post #27 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


ROTFLMAO.
What happened to all the estimates that Samsung was selling 35 M smart phones per year? Funny how they don't mind people talking about numbers like that, but as soon as it comes to possibly paying royalties, the real numbers come out.
Apple, meanwhile, sold around 150 M iPhones during that time period. Heck, they probably sold more iPads than Samsung sold smartphones.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/12743/worldwide-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/

This is only a subset, and only US sales.  Read better.

post #28 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


It doesn't matter. It's still far, far lower than the number of iPhones that Apple sold in the US. So all the "Samsung sold more smartphones than Apple" stories were nonsense. You'd think that people would learn that making numbers up doesn't serve anyone.

You can draw no conclusions about total sales from the numbers in this article.  None.

 

DIsclosure: iPhone user, Apple fan and Apple shareholder.  Hater of fanboys on all sides.

post #29 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Give up man. Go tout your wares elsewhere. Chances are, if you guys and your silly data providers have such wildly incorrect numbers here in the US, it's equally -- if not more -- poorly estimated worldwide. Who cares if Samsung outsells Apple in those markets: these sorts of hard data tell us that Samsung is nowhere near the numbers you guys hyperventilate about, and they're selling them for a pittance per handset compared to Apple. SolipsismX's comments notwithstanding.

His comments are fair and reasoned. I see no reason to discredit him for having a dissenting viewpoint (if you can call it that based solely on that post alone). In fact, it's that kind of opposing comments I'd like to see more of from posters who I know are intelligent but decide to only post anti-Apple talking points. On top of that, I have to think that if Gatorguy, of all people, is going to respond to me (or you or certain other posters on this forum) he's going to do the research because he knows we'll dissect his comments and spit back any flaws or fallacies.

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post #30 of 115
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post #31 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


His comments are fair and reasoned. I see no reason to discredit him for having a dissenting viewpoint (if you can call it that based solely on that post alone). In fact, it's that kind of opposing comments I'd like to see more of from posters who I know are intelligent but decide to only post anti-Apple talking points. On top of that, I have to think that if Gatorguy, of all people, is going to respond to me (or you or certain other posters on this forum) he's going to do the research because he knows we'll dissect his comments and spit back any flaws or fallacies.

You are certainly entitled to respond to anyone the way you choose to, and I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you have your reasons to do so.

 

Leave me to do, and give me the same. Thanks.

post #32 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
 
Deleted -  Non constructive

Thanks. I thought so too.

post #33 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Thanks. I thought so too.

No prob. I try to be respectful to almost every member here.

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post #34 of 115

so where does 9 millions galaxy s3 fall? 40% of the 21m?

post #35 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple47 View Post

so where does 9 millions galaxy s3 fall? 40% of the 21m?

I don't think the 9million sold claim was just US sales anyway, but it doesn't matter as far as the suit is concerned. This report is only addressing those devices that Apple claims infringes on their IP in this case, which doesn't include some phones like the S3, nor the Galaxy Nexus for that matter. No idea what other US smartphones (if any) from Samsung aren't being claimed by Apple.

 

So the court doc that AI references/shows in this article is not the total smartphone sales for Samsung US. It's only the sales of the possibly infringing devices targeted by this case. The AI article mentions that in passing.


Edited by Gatorguy - 8/9/12 at 7:58pm
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post #36 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

 

Very interesting numbers:

 

2011:

 

Samsung:  12M units and $4B revenue

Apple: 32M units and $20B revenue

 

First half of 2012:

 

Samsung:  4.5M units and $1.5B revenue

Apple: 19M units and $12B revenue

 

Means Apples has been outselling Samsung in the US:

 

by 2.7x in units and by 5x in revenue in 2011.

by 4x in units and by 8x in revenue in 2012.

 

Ouch!


These are all US numbers? Are u sure?

post #37 of 115

1.4 m tablets... That's quite....... smooth!!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

By my calculations that is about $350 revenue per device. That's pretty damn low.

Yep. It seems the carriers are paying almost nothing. This is why they love Android people.

post #38 of 115
Originally Posted by ufwa View Post
Reading the title of the article should've told you that these are US numbers only. 

 

The title of the article didn't originally say that.

 

Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I hope the relentless fandroids will now shut up for good, and stop quoting the absolutely dumb shipment numbers trotted out by the absolutely dumb consulting firms for their gullible and the hopeful clients.

 

… We both know there's no hope of that. lol.gif There are people that still say Samsung didn't infringe.

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post #39 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You can draw no conclusions about total sales from the numbers in this article.  None.

Well, you can draw pretty reasonable conclusions as to global ASP and profit margin for both players, and a pretty good insight what a $15 per unit licensing cost would do. With a little external data, you can also reasonably estimate Samsung's performance on a region by region basis.

It also explains a lot relative to app sales.

But no, it isn't nearly as embarrassing for Samsung when you don't extrapolate Samsung results globally...
post #40 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger View Post


These are all US numbers? Are u sure?

The article and related charts are US only sales, and in the case of Samsung numbers, only particular phones accused by Apple of infringement. It's not all of Samsung's US smartphone sales.

 

What Samsung sold outside the US isn't applicable to this case.

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