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HOPE

post #1 of 97
Thread Starter 

With all your graphs and posts you all write about Romney and Obama  you experts so to speak about      forgot something really essential in this election coming up HOPE. Two candidates never mentioned HOPE where are we headed in this country and what HOPE do we have to make it a better America.The one word we are striving for as citizens .

post #2 of 97

One candidate does mention it but since the media is so in the tank for Obama, they dare not report on anything Romney actually says or does unless it is to misconstrue or lie about it.

 

Meanwhile Obama has several scandals going on that would have put a serious dent in any other president including Clinton. He campaign and surrogates are spouting pure lies and stink of desperation. The economy has been in the tank the entire time he has been president even while borrowing trillions in debt and SPENDING one out of every four dollars in the economy. Someone ought to think about this but really, aren't there some more episodes of Real House Wives, Ex-Basketball Wives and Jersey Shore to catch up on. They fill the time nicely between Springer, Judge Judy and Maury.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 97
Thread Starter 

How come you Conservatives never mention the trillions of dollars we spent on the Iraq war needlessly.That never comes into focus.Always Obama to blame.
 

post #4 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

How come you Conservatives never mention the trillions of dollars we spent on the Iraq war needlessly.That never comes into focus.Always Obama to blame.
 

 

Uh, because the war is over?  And it didn't cost "trillions?"  And it wasn't "needless?"  

 

As for Obama, he's to blame for his actions.  Do you need a list?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

How come you Conservatives never mention the trillions of dollars we spent on the Iraq war needlessly.That never comes into focus.Always Obama to blame.
 

 

Uh, because the war is over?  And it didn't cost "trillions?"  And it wasn't "needless?"  

 

As for Obama, he's to blame for his actions.  Do you need a list?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

 

 

 

Quote:

The report disavowed previous estimates of the Iraq War's cost as being under $1 trillion, saying the Department of Defense's direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion, but also highlighting the complementary costs at home, such as interest paid on the funds borrowed to finance the wars and a potential nearly $1 trillion in extra spending to care for veterans returning from combat through 2050.[3]

And

 

 

Quote:

Those figures are significantly more than typical estimates published just prior to the start of the Iraq War, many of which were based on a shorter term of involvement. For example, in a March 16, 2003 Meet the Press interview of Vice President Dick Cheney, held less than a week before the Iraq War began, host Tim Russert reported that "every analysis said this war itself would cost about $80 billion, recovery of Baghdad, perhaps of Iraq, about $10 billion per year. We should expect as American citizens that this would cost at least $100 billion for a two-year involvement.".[4]

[edit] Appropriations

 

And the Iraq war was totally needless. And unwanted by most Americans ( The world as a whole didn't want it either ).

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #6 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

 

 

 

And

 

 

And the Iraq war was totally needless. And unwanted by most Americans ( The world as a whole didn't want it either ).

 

http://costofwar.com/

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #7 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

 

 

 

And

 

 

And the Iraq war was totally needless. And unwanted by most Americans ( The world as a whole didn't want it either ).

 

http://costofwar.com/

Yup! War ain't cheap. Can you say " What a waste! "?

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #8 of 97
Thread Starter 

Forgetting one fact Obama never got us into a war in Iraq your moronic person did good old Bush and his miserable sidekick Cheney. Cheney making millions with his Haliburton Company.
 

post #9 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Forgetting one fact Obama never got us into a war in Iraq your moronic person did good old Bush and his miserable sidekick Cheney. Cheney making millions with his Haliburton Company.
 

 

Forgetting one fact: Obama never got us out of a war in Iraq.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #10 of 97

So if I am understanding right... we should reelect Obama because he managed to borrow and spend as much in 8 months as the entire Iraq war cost in 11 years.

 

I'm having trouble understanding this line of reasoning. It seems in every instance a Bush sin is cited, Obama's solution has cost 300-1000% more to fix it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #11 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Forgetting one fact Obama never got us into a war in Iraq your moronic person did good old Bush and his miserable sidekick Cheney. Cheney making millions with his Haliburton Company.
 

 

Forgetting one fact: Obama never got us out of a war in Iraq.

No. He got us out much later than his campaign speeches indicated. However we are out and he is still in office. And I must remind here that this pales in comparasion to starting the whole mess in the first place. If it had been 50 years it would be ok to kind of let time heal this wound. It hasn't even been 10 quite yet.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #12 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So if I am understanding right... we should reelect Obama because he managed to borrow and spend as much in 8 months as the entire Iraq war cost in 11 years.

 

I'm having trouble understanding this line of reasoning. It seems in every instance a Bush sin is cited, Obama's solution has cost 300-1000% more to fix it.

 

Quote:

 So if I am understanding right... we should reelect Obama because he managed to borrow and spend as much in 8 months as the entire Iraq war cost in 11 years.

Because the same president responsible for starting that unnecessary war also was in office ( so by your own standards responsible ) for the economics mess as well. And he I might add was a Republican.

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post #13 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Quote:

 So if I am understanding right... we should reelect Obama because he managed to borrow and spend as much in 8 months as the entire Iraq war cost in 11 years.

Because the same president responsible for starting that unnecessary war also was in office ( so by your own standards responsible ) for the economics mess as well. And he I might add was a Republican.

 

That still doesn't explain the reasoning. Even if you think the entire economy was wrecked, Obama has spent one out of every four dollars in it for the last four years and also borowed and 50% of GDP in 4 years.

 

If your house burns down, the insurance estimates the value at $100k. You take that money and an additional $400k and still don't have a house four years later, you can't blame the fire at that point. When you've spent half a million fixing a $100k mess, and still don't have shelter, you the blame falls on someone or something else.

 

Before you declared we were jumping on Obama before he had time to act. Now you declare we still shouldn't hold him responsible because he has ONLY been in office for four years.

 

Now even if we buy your premise completely, using the Jimmac standard, Clinton managed to fix 12 years of Republican messes in a couple years and get reelected with no real problems. Even by Democratic reasoning, standard and perspective, Obama has to be an abject failure.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #14 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Quote:

 So if I am understanding right... we should reelect Obama because he managed to borrow and spend as much in 8 months as the entire Iraq war cost in 11 years.

Because the same president responsible for starting that unnecessary war also was in office ( so by your own standards responsible ) for the economics mess as well. And he I might add was a Republican.

 

That still doesn't explain the reasoning. Even if you think the entire economy was wrecked, Obama has spent one out of every four dollars in it for the last four years and also borowed and 50% of GDP in 4 years.

 

If your house burns down, the insurance estimates the value at $100k. You take that money and an additional $400k and still don't have a house four years later, you can't blame the fire at that point. When you've spent half a million fixing a $100k mess, and still don't have shelter, you the blame falls on someone or something else.

 

Before you declared we were jumping on Obama before he had time to act. Now you declare we still shouldn't hold him responsible because he has ONLY been in office for four years.

 

Now even if we buy your premise completely, using the Jimmac standard, Clinton managed to fix 12 years of Republican messes in a couple years and get reelected with no real problems. Even by Democratic reasoning, standard and perspective, Obama has to be an abject failure.

Consider the size of the problem he was handed. Now McCain could have been our next leader and I think we'd still have as big a problem or worse. This problem isn't like anything we've experienced in our lifetimes ( speaking of the Clinton years ). Maybe our parents or grandparents. When you got a wound gushing blood you want to give that person as much new blood as possible otherwise he/she bleeds to death ( I know bad analogy but it gets the nature of the problem across ). I'm sure it's easy for conservatives to say it would have been fixed in no time with someone else. Considering the nature of the problem I don't buy that at all. Yes Obama's only had four years to act on this how many was Bush in there for and how long do you think it would take to back out of this without creating new problems? Certianly as long as it took to create it. Some think this went back father than Bush so that only makes it worse.


Edited by jimmac - 8/12/12 at 2:13pm
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post #15 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

When you got a wound gushing blood you want to give that person as much new blood as possible otherwise he/she bleeds to death.

 

Did you recently get a book of terrible analogies that you're sharing with us?

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post #16 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

When you got a wound gushing blood you want to give that person as much new blood as possible otherwise he/she bleeds to death.

 

Did you recently get a book of terrible analogies that you're sharing with us?

I knew you'd want to focus on that point so I've already stated that it was bad but it illustrates the magnitude of the problem. No one could have fixed this in four years or less. Not without creating new problems that would make things a hundred times worse. And in that the problem would still remain. There's no quick fix for this.

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post #17 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I knew you'd want to focus on that point so I've already stated that it was bad but it illustrates the magnitude of the problem. No one could have fixed this in four years or less. Not without creating new problems that would make things a hundred times worse. And in that the problem would still remain. There's no quick fix for this.

 

It perhaps serves to indicate the magnitude, however don't pretend that wasn't your only point. The massive bleeding requiring massive blood transfusion seeks to support your claim and point that the measures Obama took (massive fiscal stimulus) was the correct approach. Wrong. It was exactly the wrong thing to do.

 

Here's a better one:

 

Someone got really drunk and/or high. They reach the limits of this drunkenness (and high). Can't go anymore. Start feeling the effects. Wake up hungover and going through withdrawals.

 

Dr. Obama prescribes more whisky and heroin.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #18 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I knew you'd want to focus on that point so I've already stated that it was bad but it illustrates the magnitude of the problem. No one could have fixed this in four years or less. Not without creating new problems that would make things a hundred times worse. And in that the problem would still remain. There's no quick fix for this.

 

It perhaps serves to indicate the magnitude, however don't pretend that wasn't your only point. The massive bleeding requiring massive blood transfusion seeks to support your claim and point that the measures Obama took (massive fiscal stimulus) was the correct approach. Wrong. It was exactly the wrong thing to do.

 

Here's a better one:

 

Someone got really drunk and/or high. They reach the limits of this drunkenness (and high). Can't go anymore. Start feeling the effects. Wake up hungover and going through withdrawals.

 

Dr. Obama prescribes more whisky and heroin.

The drunkenness also came from lack of regulation in the lending system. This is where our philosophy part ways. I don't believe you can depend on people always doing the right thing. So you have to protect society against those practices. Obama did the only thing he could do at the time to keep things from getting worse. To this day I've yet to hear a better course of action from his critics. Sure they whine about the money and the debt. Where were they during the Bush years when this was all brewing and that same debt ( and problem underneath ) was growing? And please!
At the time Bush's critics were saying " Don't you care about the future you're creating for our kids to handle? " This was in reference to the war and the growing debt he was creating. Sound familiar? Some of those people are forum members here that were commenting on it at the time. The difference is that Obama was handed this mess and it was a huge problem. One that no Libertarian,  Republican,  or even Democrat could have solved in a short amount of time. Saying they could is laughable.


Edited by jimmac - 8/12/12 at 3:45pm
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post #19 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The drunkenness also came from lack of regulation in the lending system.

 

That's one theory...and even possibly partly right. There's a bigger and more prominent cause though: The Fed's monetary policies.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I don't believe you can depend on people always doing the right thing.

 

Amusing that you wish to give more people more power over more people yet you distrust them so.

 

Funny thing is that for any civilized society to truly work a substantial part of the population needs to be virtuous. But here's the rub, if a substantial portion is immoral, the worst thing you could do is give some of them extra-special power that that state gives some.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Obama did the only thing he could do at the time to keep things from getting worse.

 

You're wrong. There are multiple options. He chose one. I believe he chose the wrong one.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The difference is that Obama was handed this mess and it was a huge problem. One that no Libertarian,  Republican,  or even Democrat could have solved in a short amount of time. Saying they could is laughable.

 

I believe you're wrong.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #20 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Consider the size of the problem he was handed. Now McCain could have been our next leader and I think we'd still have as big a problem or worse. This problem isn't like anything we've experienced in our lifetimes ( speaking of the Clinton years ). Maybe our parents or grandparents. When you got a wound gushing blood you want to give that person as much new blood as possible otherwise he/she bleeds to death ( I know bad analogy but it gets the nature of the problem across ). I'm sure it's easy for conservatives to say it would have been fixed in no time with someone else. Considering the nature of the problem I don't buy that at all. Yes Obama's only had four years to act on this how many was Bush in there for and how long do you think it would take to back out of this without creating new problems? Certianly as long as it took to create it. Some think this went back father than Bush so that only makes it worse.

 

 

Obama did indeed inherit a bad situation.  But he made that situation worse by prolonging the recession and digging us MUCH further into debt.  As trump notes, those complaining about Bush deficits have a point...until they start defending Obama's deficits, which are 300-400% higher.  You did in this thread.  You rail against the "unnecessary" Iraq War's cost, but ignore the fact that Obama spends more than the cost of the entire Iraq War  in deficit spending...every year.  

 

As for conservatives, I've not heard anyone argue that "the problem" could be fixed easily or quickly, so that's a strawman on your part.  Your only argument for Obama thus far seems to be the claim that "it would have been worse" with another leader.  That's pretty weak.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The drunkenness also came from lack of regulation in the lending system. 

 

Uh, no.  It came partly from government meddling.  Research the sub prime crisis and the Community Reinvestment Act a bit.  The other part had to do less with lending then it did complex financial instruments like collateralized debt securities.  

 

 

 

Quote:
This is where our philosophy part ways. I don't believe you can depend on people always doing the right thing. So you have to protect society against those practices.

 

I agree.  It is a question of how much and HOW we "protect."  The regulation in the mortgage in industry, for example, is ridiculous.  Why do you think one needs to sign about 100 pages when closing on a loan.  

 

 

 

Quote:
 Obama did the only thing he could do at the time to keep things from getting worse. 

 

How did he do that?  A failed stimulus?  Solyndra?  

 

 

Quote:
To this day I've yet to hear a better course of action from his critics.

 

Then you haven't been listening.  Conservatives wanted tax cuts...which would have worked.  

 

 

 

Quote:
 Sure they whine about the money and the debt. Where were they during the Bush years when this was all brewing and that same debt ( and problem underneath ) was growing? And please!
At the time Bush's critics were saying " Don't you care about the future you're creating for our kids to handle? " This was in reference to the war and the growing debt he was creating. Sound familiar? Some of those people are forum members here that were commenting on it at the time. The difference is that Obama was handed this mess and it was a huge problem. One that no Libertarian,  Republican,  or even Democrat could have solved in a short amount of time. Saying they could is laughable.

 

You're still demonstrating cognitive dissonance here.  If Bush's $200-$400 billion deficits were a problem (bad for our children, immoral, etc), then why are Obama's $1.2-$1.6 Trillion deficits acceptable or understandable? Your position makes no sense whatsoever.  The claim that Obama's actions stopped things from getting worse is a hypothetical and unsupportable argument.  What we know is that the economy today is not in much better shape than when he took office.  In fact, we're very near another recession, with sub 2% growth and 42 consecutive months of 8+% unemployment.  Obama has accumulated $5+ Trillion in debt in four years.  Bush added $4 Trillion in 8 years.  There are fewer people working in the U.S. today than in 2008, which means a net job loss...the first time in modern history that has happened.  Yet none of it is Obama's fault according to you.  The job was just too big, say you.  Fortunately I know at least two people who believe otherwise.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #21 of 97

Obama prolonged the recession?  That's fucking rich.  Mitch McConnell made it priority #1 for Republicans to block anything the president tried to do.  The manufactured debt crisis hurt America.  The refusal to put forth jobs bills while dicking around with abortion and contraception bills hurt America.  Republicans have prolonged this fucking recession.  Are you completely blind to reality?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #22 of 97

The Federal Reserve has prolonged this recession. No amount of legislation will be able to permanently fix anything until the Fed is held accountable for its actions.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #23 of 97

That, too.  Instead of printing money to give to the banks, they should given it to the people for specific use toward debt related to existing mortgages and college loans. 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #24 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Consider the size of the problem he was handed. Now McCain could have been our next leader and I think we'd still have as big a problem or worse. This problem isn't like anything we've experienced in our lifetimes ( speaking of the Clinton years ). Maybe our parents or grandparents. When you got a wound gushing blood you want to give that person as much new blood as possible otherwise he/she bleeds to death ( I know bad analogy but it gets the nature of the problem across ). I'm sure it's easy for conservatives to say it would have been fixed in no time with someone else. Considering the nature of the problem I don't buy that at all. Yes Obama's only had four years to act on this how many was Bush in there for and how long do you think it would take to back out of this without creating new problems? Certianly as long as it took to create it. Some think this went back father than Bush so that only makes it worse.

 

So you think borrowing 50% of GDP and spending 1 out of every 4 dollars in the economy reflecting not "considering the size of the problem". Get it through your head. Everyone has considered the size of the problem. You talk about giving a patient blood. The average human has 10-12 pints of blood in their body. If someone has poured 50-60 pints of blood into someone while claiming they've stopped the bleeding, then they haven't fixed the problem. Take off the blinders. Obama has borrowed more to fix the problem than the person you claimed caused the problem ever borrowed PERIOD. Obama has borrowed enough money to pay for 5 Iraq Wars. Screaming that the war is the problem just looks ridiculous in comparison.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post
The drunkenness also came from lack of regulation in the lending system. This is where our philosophy part ways. I don't believe you can depend on people always doing the right thing. So you have to protect society against those practices. Obama did the only thing he could do at the time to keep things from getting worse. To this day I've yet to hear a better course of action from his critics. Sure they whine about the money and the debt. Where were they during the Bush years when this was all brewing and that same debt ( and problem underneath ) was growing? And please!

At the time Bush's critics were saying " Don't you care about the future you're creating for our kids to handle? " This was in reference to the war and the growing debt he was creating. Sound familiar? Some of those people are forum members here that were commenting on it at the time. The difference is that Obama was handed this mess and it was a huge problem. One that no Libertarian,  Republican,  or even Democrat could have solved in a short amount of time. Saying they could is laughable.

 

It isn't that you've yet to hear it. You've failed to engage and understand it. All recessions are caused by malinvestment. Sectors of the economy become overheated with speculation. They need to shrink to their appropriate levels, and the money, personnel and resources chasing them need to be redistributed as well. Obama has prolonged all of this because he keeps throwing money at the areas of the economy that need to deflate in order to avoid pain. The drinking analog would be someone who gives you a bloody mary in hopes of helping your hangover so you won't think of avoiding some binge drinking that night. Behaviors need to change in a recession. Spending needs to become saving and investing in the right areas. The government doesn't need to pick those right areas. They just need to stop borrowing a trillion plus a year and throwing it at the same problems to avoid the pain of adjustment.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Obama prolonged the recession?  That's fucking rich.  Mitch McConnell made it priority #1 for Republicans to block anything the president tried to do.  The manufactured debt crisis hurt America.  The refusal to put forth jobs bills while dicking around with abortion and contraception bills hurt America.  Republicans have prolonged this fucking recession.  Are you completely blind to reality?

 

The Democrats had full control of the Congress for four years. They had the presidency for 4 years. Republicans didn't just appoint themselves to office. They were elected there as a response to the ineffectiveness and lack of focus with regard to Democratic proposals and legislation. The fact that Obama wants to focus on contraception instead of say JOBS shows the exact problem. It shows why Democrats can and will continue to get tossed from office. Susie can't go to Walmart for her $9 a month birth control pills but the real issue is jobs, borrow and debt.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That, too.  Instead of printing money to give to the banks, they should given it to the people for specific use toward debt related to existing mortgages and college loans. 

 

They give the money to the banks to buy government debt and to invest in government proposals. People still have this understanding backwards.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 97
Thread Starter 

Man you are so right. The Republicans blocked everything the Democrats proposed and now they are bitching away once again.
 

post #26 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Obama prolonged the recession?  That's fucking rich.  Mitch McConnell made it priority #1 for Republicans to block anything the president tried to do.  The manufactured debt crisis hurt America.  The refusal to put forth jobs bills while dicking around with abortion and contraception bills hurt America.  Republicans have prolonged this fucking recession.  Are you completely blind to reality?

 

It's amazing how liberals question the need for an opposition once they get into power. They go so far as to believe that the situation was somehow different when the other party was in power. Now that's some serious reality-distortion there.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That, too.  Instead of printing money to give to the banks, they should given it to the people for specific use toward debt related to existing mortgages and college loans. 

 

Yes, because when Bush handed out cheques to the general population like that, you were cheering him on and spent months saying how it was money well spent.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #27 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's amazing how liberals question the need for an opposition once they get into power.

 

Well that's because they are right. That's plain enough for anyone to see. And being right needs no opposition. Duh.

 

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

It's amazing how liberals question the need for an opposition once they get into power. They go so far as to believe that the situation was somehow different when the other party was in power. Now that's some serious reality-distortion there.

 

 

It's one thing to have some opposition.  It's another to take it to the extreme like this:

 

 

Note that the top political priority was neither to recover from the recession nor get people back to work.  It was to make Obama a one-term president.  When an opposition party's top priority isn't the health and welfare of the nation, that's a fucking problem.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 97

Showing an 8-second video clip of one man's speech and claiming it's the top priority of an entire political party isn't cherry picking at all.

 

What's the context of the quote? WHY does McConnell want to make Obama a one-term president?

 

Look, I'm not defending Republicans, here. In my view, they are no better than Democrats. Both parties have presided over the deterioration of our country. But your attempt to condemn an entire political party based on an 8 second video clip is frankly sad.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #30 of 97

Yes, the 8 second clip is clearly all I have.  Ignore the track record of the last 4 years in which ideas that Republicans came up with themselves were chastised as socialism because now the president wanted to implement them.  Give me a fucking break.  And don't forget about the completely manufactured debt ceiling crisis.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 97

The claim that Republicans have obstructed everything Obama has wanted to do is simply not true.

 

Republicans and Democrats agree on many things: NDAA, Patriot Act, funding undeclared wars, TARP, auto bailouts, Medicare expansion...

 

The list is actually pretty long.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #32 of 97

Nearly everything related to the economy and the deficit.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #33 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Nearly everything related to the economy and the deficit.

 

TARP and the auto bailouts aren't related to the economy and the deficit?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #34 of 97

TARP was passed under Bush.  The auto bailouts got stiff opposition.  Especially from Mitt Romney.  Then he tried to take credit for them later.  What a wacky guy.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #35 of 97

Yes, Bush was a corporatist puppet and Obama has continued and expanded his crony-capitalist policies, with the Democrats and Republicans largely in agreement.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #36 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That, too.  Instead of printing money to give to the banks, they should given it to the people for specific use toward debt related to existing mortgages and college loans. 

Oh my God. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #37 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Man you are so right. The Republicans blocked everything the Democrats proposed and now they are bitching away once again.
 

 

Could you please enlighten us with specifics?  Which actions that would have benefited the economy and our fiscal situation did the GOP block?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #38 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh my God. 

What?  That money goes right to the banks anyway, but it also helps out the regular folks.  If you were in favor of bailing out the banks--which you were--why not bail them out via handling the mortgage issues at the consumer level?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #39 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It's one thing to have some opposition.  It's another to take it to the extreme like this...

 

Note that the top political priority was neither to recover from the recession nor get people back to work.  It was to make Obama a one-term president.  When an opposition party's top priority isn't the health and welfare of the nation...

 

There are millions of people who would agree that making Obama a one-term president is integral to the health and welfare of your nation.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #40 of 97

Millions of morons, jackasses, and the hoodwinked.  Those who would compromise their own ideals to do so--vote against their own policies--don't have the health and welfare of the nation at heart.  Fact is, Obama is center-right.  He's also black and has the letter "D" next to his name.  Finally, although he is pretty corporate friendly (just look at the lack of prosecutions against those who put us in this mess), he's also not willing to sign over America's deed to the multinational entities with no allegiance to the American people.  Strike 3.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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