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Internal sales documents show Samsung has lost the war for tablet supremacy in the US

post #1 of 116
Thread Starter 
Samsung, which once claimed its GalaxyTab shipments were in the millions, saw sales of the devices fall to a paltry 37,000 units in the United States last quarter, suggesting that although Korean electronics maker is holding its own in the battle for smartphone unit share supremacy, it's clearly lost the war it waged against the iPad.

The once closely guarded sales figures from the two companies were forced into evidence this week despite attempts from both sides to keep their respective data private. But they'll be necessary for the jury to see, the court ultimately determined, to quantify the extend of potential damages awarded to either side in the case.

Of particular interest is a large discrepancy in sales for Samsung's tablets between the company's internal sales report and estimated second quarter figures published by IDC last week, which are largely culled from retail sales date supplied in cooperation with the company's who manufacture and ship the products.

IDC reported estimated sales of roughly 2,391,000 GalaxyTabs worldwide during the three-month period ending July while Samsung's internal documents indicate it sold just 37,000 stateside, compared to Apple's 5.7 million iPads. That would imply that a staggering 98.5% of all GalaxyTabs would have to have been sold overseas last quarter -- a spread many industry watchers are finding hard to believe.



Potentially even more surprising is the grim picture Samsung's internal US sales data paints for the future of its tablet business on Apple's home turf. Between the second quarter of 2011 and the second quarter of 2012, GalaxyTab sales in the US decline an eye-popping 86% from 266,000 units to just 37,000.

Making matters worse, of those 37,000 GalaxyTabs, over 67% (or 25,000) appear to have been yesteryear and lower-cost closeout models that combined for an average selling price (ASP) of $360. Meanwhile, the company reported moving 6,000 GalaxyTab 10.1 LTE models at an ASP of $545 while eating an estimated $5 million loss on the sale of 1000 non-LTE models.



The same court documents also provide some interesting color on smartphone sales from the two heated rivals. Since its inception in 2007, Apple in the US generated $50 billion in revenue from the sale of 86 million iPhones, while the smartphone models in Samsung's portfolio for which Apple alleges infringement combined for 21 million units and $7 billion in sale.



Also of interest is that Apple's all-time US sales for iPads and iPod touch models have so far totaled 34 million ($19 billion in revenue) and 46.5 million (10.3 billion in revenue), respectively.
post #2 of 116

Now their defense will change to, "We had to copy! It was the only way to fight Apple's monopoly!"

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #3 of 116

This is a much better article than two of the previous ones dealing with the same general subject. At least it's not blatantly misleading and certainly livable enough for an Apple-enthusiast website.

melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #4 of 116
Samesung will start saying - see how damaging these silly "copying" allegations have been.
Apple should compensate us for all our lost sales !
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post #5 of 116
IDC's numbers have always been a joke. 12% tablet market share tor "other" ?

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #6 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala View Post

Samesung will start saying - see how damaging these silly "copying" allegations have been.
Apple should compensate us for all our lost sales !

I was just about to say the same thing, if anything it shows that Samsung failed to capitalize on copying Apple. But who to say IDC data was correct in the first place.


Edited by Maestro64 - 8/10/12 at 9:18am
post #7 of 116

So Galaxy Tab sales have been quite smoother since the 1st qtr they were available.

post #8 of 116

I would imagine if somebody were looking to purchase an Android tablets, they would have held off until the quad-core full HD tablets came out such as the Transformer Infinity.  My parents held off on tablet and phone purchases until the Galaxy SIII and Transformer Infinity came out.  Then again, as far as Android tablets go, Samsung's offerings are behind compared to their competitors.  Acer and ASUS have quad-core full HD tablets.

post #9 of 116
I was thinking a fair fine would be $100 to Apple for every infinging item Samsung sold.
But now it hardly seems worth it !
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post #10 of 116

Somewhere out there, a US citizen and Samsung supporter who bought the Galaxy Tab at full price is reading this article and realising what a total fool he/she is.  :-)

post #11 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

This is a much better article than two of the previous ones dealing with the same general subject. At least it's not blatantly misleading and certainly livable enough for an Apple-enthusiast website.

 

You're really into the irony this week, aren't you?

post #12 of 116
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
Somewhere out there, a US citizen and Samsung supporter who bought the Galaxy Tab… …is reading this article and realizing what a total fool he/she is.

 

You mean.

😉

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #13 of 116
I agree these numbers make more sense than Samsung's likely inflated numbers, but... if we assume it's possible Samsung lied about its original numbers, isn't it equally likely they're lying about these numbers? These numbers would be used to calculate damages, no? It also paints a more favorable argument for Samsung than, say, if Samsung really had sold millions of alleged copies, wouldn't it?

As with thieves, once a liar always a liar. And any conflicting evidence was likely "auto-deleted"...
post #14 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You're really into the irony this week, aren't you?
I've often wondered if Apple fans flood Android and/or Samsung fan sites in an attempt to provide balance. Because lately there's been an influx of the reverse here and on MR.
post #15 of 116
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
I agree these numbers make more sense than Samsung's likely inflated numbers, but... if we assume it's possible Samsung lied about its original numbers, isn't it equally likely they're lying about these numbers? These numbers would be used to calculate damages, no? It also paints a more favorable argument for Samsung than, say, if Samsung really had sold millions of alleged copies, wouldn't it?
As with thieves, once a liar always a liar. And any conflicting evidence was likely "auto-deleted"...

 

So there are three options here… 

 

Samsung lied about the first numbers and these are legit: They'll be crucified by their shareholders, an inquiry will be raised, and there'll be a ton of trouble.

Samsung told the truth about the first numbers and these are a lie: They'll be crucified by their shareholders, an inquiry will be raised, and there'll be a ton of trouble.

Samsung lied about the first numbers and is also lying about these: They'll be crucified 2x by their shareholders, an even larger inquiry will be raised, and there will be unimaginable trouble.

 

Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
I've often wondered if Apple fans flood Android and/or Samsung fan sites in an attempt to provide balance.
 

It really doesn't happen. It'll be one person with one post, something simple, "Apple rocks!", and that's that. Not like here. Not at all like here. These people are deranged.


Because lately there's been an influx of the reverse… …on MR.

 

Lately, he says… lol.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #16 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[...] which are largely culled from retail sales date supplied in cooperation with the company's who manufacture and ship the products.

with "the company's" what?
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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post #17 of 116

Too early to make these claims.  It took 3 years for Samsung to really compete with Apple iPhone.

post #18 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
It also paints a more favorable argument for Samsung than, say, if Samsung really had sold millions of alleged copies, wouldn't it?

 

I'm of a similar mind. If the jury believes that Samsung's tablets are not selling, they might conclude that any copying being done is ineffective and not causing harm to Apple. Kinda like a "innocent by reason of incompetence" defense.

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"You can't fall off the floor"   From 128k Mac to 8GB MBP

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post #19 of 116
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post
Too early to make these claims.  It took 3 years for Samsung to really compete with Apple iPhone.

 

And it took just about the same amount of time for Apple to get 75% of all cell phone profits worldwide, having never made a phone before in the history of the company, and only making four models of phone ever.

 

It's not too early.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #20 of 116

I am not sure Samsung ever specially said how many phones they ship. I believe in their public statements they tend to be vague. It is usually the industry analysis who put specific numbers around all this and they maybe the one who over inflated the numbers to make Samsung look better. Apple has been the only one who has consistently published their numbers. They never show how much they made on a particular phone.

post #21 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

This is a much better article than two of the previous ones dealing with the same general subject. At least it's not blatantly misleading and certainly livable enough for an Apple-enthusiast website.

 

I wonder how the Android-apologist websites are spinning it.  lol.gif

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post #22 of 116
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

 

I'm of a similar mind. If the jury believes that Samsung's tablets are not selling, they might conclude that any copying being done is ineffective and not causing harm to Apple. Kinda like a "innocent by reason of incompetence" defense.

 

The problem with that line of thinking is that some other, more effective competitor could use a pro-Samsung ruling as legal precedent.

And that competitor would basically be free to copy Apple all over again because they could cite Apple v. Samsung and say "Look!  Copying is OK!"

 

Doesn't matter how many iPad and iPhone clones Samsung sold.  A clone is a clone.

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post #23 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You mean.

😉

TS, why do all of your graphics show up as an empty square with a thick black border? ... this seems to be a recent change. What am I doing wrong?

See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #24 of 116

IDC LOL!

Samsung needs to put Steve Bummer and Mickey Dell on the Board.

post #25 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

I agree these numbers make more sense than Samsung's likely inflated numbers, but... if we assume it's possible Samsung lied about its original numbers, isn't it equally likely they're lying about these numbers? These numbers would be used to calculate damages, no? It also paints a more favorable argument for Samsung than, say, if Samsung really had sold millions of alleged copies, wouldn't it?
As with thieves, once a liar always a liar. And any conflicting evidence was likely "auto-deleted"...

I agree 100% ...based on their past record there's no way I'd believe anything Samsung says.

See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #26 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Somewhere out there, a US citizen and Samsung supporter who bought the Galaxy Tab at full price is reading this article and realising what a total fool he/she is.  :-)

 

I bought a Galaxy Tab for a purpose it supports, and the iPad will never support, and that's backwards compatibility with IR devices without a dongle or expensive add-on. I'm not a fool or a samsung supporter or a troll, and I don't feel like one either. iPads are just jumbo iPhones. I already have one of those. This things lighter, cheaper, and does more stuff AND lets me dev on the android platform with a cheap buy in. 

 

Point is, people who bought these little things knew what they were getting and likely don't feel foolish about it at all, and why would they? Because samsung stole designs? Consumers don't give a crap. 

Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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post #27 of 116
Originally Posted by newbee View Post
TS, why do all of your graphics show up as an empty square with a thick black border? ... this seems to be a recent change. What am I doing wrong?

 

Ah, you don't have Mountain/Lion. They both add emoji, which I use in lieu of forum emoticons because 1. there's a far FAR wider array of them for more emotions and 2. we only have one working forum emoticon.

 

They're straight-up Unicode characters, so they should be showing up anywhere that knows what they are. But that's the problem with using a standard; not everything supports it.

 

1000

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #28 of 116

I guess if you cant give them away 2 for 1 no one wants Sammy's junk

post #29 of 116

Tab sales are surprisingly low. Isn't this the tablet was was supposed to unseat the iPad from supremacy? Thats what the blogosphere had me believe. 

post #30 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Ah, you don't have Mountain/Lion.

Your'e right, I don't. Unfortunately my Mac is a late 2006 and can only go to Snow Leopard. I also miss out on iBooks Publisher too. .... one of the downsides to "retirement" .... cannot upgrade equipment near as often as I'd like to. ...."sigh"

See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
Reply
post #31 of 116
Not surprised all Samesung's tablets that I tried were awful.

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iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

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post #32 of 116

The reason the numbers probably disagree (shipped vs. sold) is that people think they are buying an iPad. When the get home and realize it's not an iPad, they return it. It's the perfect case for why Samsung's copying confuses the customers. 

 
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

I wonder how the Android-apologist websites are spinning it.  lol.gif

They're not. Pathetic hypocrites aren't even showing the stories. Guess they don't want pie on their faces. As usual, they are proven wrong on so many levels, then simply turn their heads in the other direction and hope nobody notices them.
post #34 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala View Post

I was thinking a fair fine would be $100 to Apple for every infinging item Samsung sold.
But now it hardly seems worth it !

The problem with logic like this is that it's not based on anything. You somehow believe that these numbers are entirely arbitrary. If you look at Apple's prior demands, they have a breakdown. On the issue of trade dress, it's possible that they have a further breakdown to support their requests. I suppose if they wanted to, they could work backwards to try to justify a desired number or set of numbers, but I don't think personal sentiments should ever relate to numbers.

post #35 of 116
Samsung's management has been pretty good at ducking responsibility. I wouldn't count out their legal team's ability to fabricate a get-out-of-jail-free card just yet.

If the company even remotely cared about shareholders, then they probably should not have risked getting sued in the US on the first place. If their executives (CEO, board,etc.) are truly that stupid, then they should all be rightfully canned and fined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So there are three options here… 

Samsung lied about the first numbers and these are legit: They'll be crucified by their shareholders, an inquiry will be raised, and there'll be a ton of trouble.
Samsung told the truth about the first numbers and these are a lie: They'll be crucified by their shareholders, an inquiry will be raised, and there'll be a ton of trouble.
Samsung lied about the first numbers and is also lying about these: They'll be crucified 2x by their shareholders, an even larger inquiry will be raised, and there will be unimaginable trouble.

Lately, he says… lol.gif
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #36 of 116

This was obvious over a year ago. Android tablets are junk, and the OEMs to which the OS is whored out to don't really give a damn.

post #37 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

I would imagine if somebody were looking to purchase an Android tablets, they would have held off until the quad-core full HD tablets came out such as the Transformer Infinity.  My parents held off on tablet and phone purchases until the Galaxy SIII and Transformer Infinity came out.  Then again, as far as Android tablets go, Samsung's offerings are behind compared to their competitors.  Acer and ASUS have quad-core full HD tablets.

That's interesting. I'm fifty so I'm either as old as your parents or older probably and I wouldn't consider myself a Luddite by any means. I mean I held of until I could get an i7 iMac since it encodes a lot of video most days but right now I couldn't even tell you what the processor is in my iPad or my iPhone for that matter. They both do what I want them to do. In fact I've never heard any of my friends (in their 30's, 40's and 50's) say they're waiting for a specific processor to buy a device. They may wait or want a specific device but they have never said I wanting a Snapdragon or what have you.
post #38 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I've often wondered if Apple fans flood Android and/or Samsung fan sites in an attempt to provide balance. Because lately there's been an influx of the reverse here and on MR.

Apple fans typically lead busy lives to be bothered to counter post. I left MR a long, long time ago (and never came back) since the site is obviously about inciting post counts, ad analytics and pleasing advertisers at the expense of its intended audience. It is the site for "Apple fans" such as Da Hard-on.
Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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Originally Posted by Granmastak: Labor unions managed to kill manufacturing a long time ago with their unreasonable demands. Now the people they were trying to protect, are out of a job.
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post #39 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I've often wondered if Apple fans flood Android and/or Samsung fan sites in an attempt to provide balance. Because lately there's been an influx of the reverse here and on MR.

a lot of people have a mix of iOS/android devices. yesterday someone i know got a Galaxy S3 and i looked at it. very nice phone and making me consider giving up my 4S. would never trade my ipad for an android tablet though. with a lot of people it seems that something expensive like a tablet they want an ipad, but for a phone they want android.

post #40 of 116

No big surprise here.  Since Apple got the iPad right on the first try and has such an awesome ecosystem for it, it was always going to dominate.  It's nice to have options, but they've got such a lead that they're never going to lose it (a la MS with OSes).  Frankly not entirely sure why Samsung is even bothering to make a tablet at all at this point - they're not going to make any inroads imo.  Just cut your losses and focus on smartphones, where you're actually doing well.


Edited by Freshmaker - 8/10/12 at 10:35am
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