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Samsung designer says smartphone inspired by 'bowl of water,' not the iPhone

post #1 of 74
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In an opposition filing on Friday, Samsung argued the Apple v. Samsung jury should hear testimony from Hyoung Shin Park, principal designer of the contested F700 smartphone that the company's attorneys want to use as proof of non-infringement on Apple's design patents.

Park, a senior designer at Samsung, gave testimony claiming the design patents for the F700 were applied for in December of 2006, well before the first public announcement of Apple's iPhone. Most important are the designer's statements regarding the handset's design inspiration, which she claims came from a bowl of water and not from any Apple patents.

According to Friday's filing, first reported by CNet, Park's testimony will explain that the F700's design features were borne out of function. The features include "a rectangular housing with four evenly-rounded corners, rounded edges on all four sides, a large, flat clear glass cover over the entire front face without ornamentation, a curved bezel that extends towards the back of the phone, an oblong speaker slot at the top of the front flat face, and a single optical jog button at the bottom of the front face."

Apple filed a motion to exclude Park's testimony as well as any testimony regarding the F700, and has thus far been somewhat successful with a court ruling stating the handset does not constitute prior art. The Court did say, however, that evidence pertaining to the F700 would be "admissible for other purposes, including to rebut an allegation of copying."

The Cupertino company's attorneys argued that testimony relating to issues of alternative design and funcitonality would be both a "waste of time" and "prejudicial," noting that Samsung already had a chance to present the F700 during cross-examination of Apple's expert witness Peter Bressler.

From Apple's motion to exclude:

Going into the creation history of an alternative design is clearly intended to skirt the Court?s previous rulings. Going into the design history of the F700 in particular is extremely prejudicial because the risk is high that the jury will consider the F700 as evidence of independent development, invalidity, or non-infringement regardless of whether or not Samsung encourages them to do so. In short, there is no permissible purpose for which Samsung can introduce Ms. Park?s testimony on the F700 that is admissible.



Samsung F700
Design patents for Samsung's F700 smartphone were applied for in 2006, before the original iPhone was announced.
Source: Apple v. Samsung court documents


Samsung countered by saying Park's testimony would not duplicate Bressler's, nor would it be a waste of time. The company goes further, pointing out that not allowing the Park testimony would "fundamentally undermine Samsung's functionality defense, as no other witness will offer the same testimony."

The F700 was recently associated with the "leaking" of excluded court evidence by Samsung regarding a Sony-styled iPhone. A statement accompanying the excluded demonstrative slides said, "The Judge?s exclusion of evidence on independent creation meant that even though Apple was allowed to inaccurately argue to the jury that the F700 was an iPhone copy, Samsung was not allowed to tell the jury the full story and show the pre-iPhone design for that and other phones that were in development at Samsung in 2006, before the iPhone."
post #2 of 74
I am searching for a funny comment about the design coming from a bowl of water but I simply can't ... Lies really are not funny I guess.
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post #3 of 74

Hyoung South Park? What?

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #4 of 74

A bowl of water? Can Samsung get any more desperate to show it's not copying & ripping off Apple designs?

post #5 of 74

The F700 dumbphone is not mimicking Apple.

 

But some post-iPhone Samsung smartphones and tablets ARE mimicking Apple, from the icons to the hardware details to the charger to the packaging. Some are REALLY close to the iPhone 3G, for instance, and not nearly as close to their own F700.

 

The F700 stuff seems like a waste of time.

 

I fully believe that the F700 design was inspired by something floating in a “bowl,” though.

post #6 of 74
Was the bowl of water half empty or half full?
post #7 of 74

she got her inspiration after hitting her head on a toilet bowl

post #8 of 74

Yeah, someone left their iPhone next to a bowl of water and Mr Samsung copied what he saw in the reflection.

post #9 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I am searching for a funny comment about the design coming from a bowl of water but I simply can't ... Lies really are not funny I guess.

 

Perhaps something about "the design came to me as I sat in the lavatory"?

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post #10 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_XP View Post

Yeah, someone left their iPhone next to a bowl of water and Mr Samsung copied what he saw in the reflection.

 

OK, that got the biggest laugh from me today. Hahaha... hee, hee...

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post #11 of 74
The F700 looks very little like an iPhone, and is a completely different type of phone (slider). Later Samsung phones do, however, look a great deal like various iPhones.

Samsung and their ilk like to make a straw man argument that "Apple can't patent a rectangle". Other smartphones are rectangular, yet they don't look like an iPhone any more than the F700.

The phones that seem to be infringing go a step or three farther. They're not just rectangular; they're rectangular with a black face, a chrome bezel, similarly placed button(s), near identical icons and layout, near identical non-standard accessories, similar packaging, etc. It's the COMBINATION of all that that is the problem.
post #12 of 74
Ah, I rember it well. The first time I dropped my iPhone into a bowel of water all I could see was a Samsung phone with my name on it.
post #13 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

The F700 dumbphone is not mimicking Apple.

 

But some post-iPhone Samsung smartphones and tablets ARE mimicking Apple, from the icons to the hardware details to the charger to the packaging. Some are REALLY close to the iPhone 3G, for instance, and not nearly as close to their own F700.

 

The F700 stuff seems like a waste of time.

 

 

 

Which is why the court refused to allow Samsung to admit it as prior art

post #14 of 74

Uh oh, the half empty, half filled water.  Hack psychologists use that.

 

I think that an engineer is going to use a bowl that is filled with water because water is cheap enough.

 

But I am still trying to figure out why they simply just say that from the back of the phone it looks very much like the back of an iPhone 1st gen,  only a lot thicker.

 

One thing about Apple product designs that become big sellers is that they are usually iconic, just like the early Motorola handsets that first came out were iconic during the 70's.  Boy did everyone that had one seem cool and important.  

 

What I laugh about are the people that use cell phones to look like they are doing some important business deal, when in fact, all they are really doing is find out if they can hear someone through the bad cell connection.

post #15 of 74
principal designer, AI......

(As far as I can tell, the company has no principles).
post #16 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Uh oh, the half empty, half filled water.  Hack psychologists use that.

I think that an engineer is going to use a bowl that is filled with water because water is cheap enough.

But I am still trying to figure out why they simply just say that from the back of the phone it looks very much like the back of an iPhone 1st gen,  only a lot thicker.

One thing about Apple product designs that become big sellers is that they are usually iconic, just like the early Motorola handsets that first came out were iconic during the 70's.  Boy did everyone that had one seem cool and important.  

What I laugh about are the people that use cell phones to look like they are doing some important business deal, when in fact, all they are really doing is find out if they can hear someone through the bad cell connection.

Is meaningless rambling treatable I wonder?
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post #17 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Is meaningless rambling treatable I wonder?

Oh, don't mind him... he occasionally draws a blank... ;-)
Edited by anantksundaram - 8/10/12 at 7:15pm
post #18 of 74

Im confused.....Isnt the Android (Google) OS responsible for the way the icons look on all Android devices?? Not Samsung in reality??

 

Confused in Wisconsin.
 

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post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMok View Post

Im confused.....Isnt the Android (Google) OS responsible for the way the icons look on all Android devices?? Not Samsung in reality??

Confused in Wisconsin.

 

Most android OEMs use a "skin" on top of Android, which in essence acts as an GUI on top of the normal OS. HTC has "Sense", Moto has "Motoblur", Samsung has "TouchWiz", etc. They all look different. While Android at one time looked a lot like iOS, over time it has diverged. Samsung, however, has designed TouchWiz to emulate iOS as much as possible, which is central to this case.

You can see the difference in user interface between a TouchWiz device like the Galaxy S line and "vanilla" Android like the Galaxy Nexus (which doesn't have a skin).
post #20 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post


Most android OEMs use a "skin" on top of Android, which in essence acts as an GUI on top of the normal OS. HTC has "Sense", Moto has "Motoblur", Samsung has "TouchWiz", etc. They all look different. While Android at one time looked a lot like iOS, over time it has diverged. Samsung, however, has designed TouchWiz to emulate iOS as much as possible, which is central to this case.
You can see the difference in user interface between a TouchWiz device like the Galaxy S line and "vanilla" Android like the Galaxy Nexus (which doesn't have a skin).


Thanks! Great info. Now it makes sense to me.....

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They were both wrong.

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post #21 of 74

It was probably the reflection of an iphone in that bowl of water that inspired her.

post #22 of 74

So, just for the record.

 

According to Samsung these AREN'T the same:

 

 

700

 

 

But these ARE:

 

 

700700

 

Did I get that correct?

post #23 of 74
Where in this story is the bowl of water reference mentioned? Typically awful AI story.
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizSandford View Post

Where in this story is the bowl of water reference mentioned? Typically awful AI story.

 

Park, a senior designer at Samsung, gave testimony claiming the design patents for the F700 were applied for in December of 2006, well before the first public announcement of Apple's iPhone. Most important are the designer's statements regarding the handset's design inspiration, which she claims came from a bowl of water and not from any Apple patents.

 

And CNET:

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57491367-37/samsung-our-phone-design-was-inspired-by-a-bowl-of-water/

post #25 of 74

Toilet Bowl is probably the case if it were true, but we know it's not. 

post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizSandford View Post

Where in this story is the bowl of water reference mentioned? Typically awful AI story.

Do you have trouble reading, or are you just lazy?

post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObjectiveSee View Post

...dropped my iPhone into a bowel of water...
Enema opinion, that sounds uncomfortable.

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post #28 of 74

Yes, I definitely see the resemblance to a bowl of water..

 

Wait- what!??

 

Seriously Samsung needs to lay off with this F700 thing. It's embarrassing, especially since they seem to believe it's their strongest card. Quite the opposite, it utterly proves Apple's argument that Samsung was NOT working on anything like the iPhone before the iPhone, since this phone has nothing in common with the concept of the iPhone. It's black? Is that their argument? I don't get it. It has a damn slideout keyboard and the UI couldnt have looked more different than iOS. Nobody gives a shit what it was inspired by, because it's utterly irrelevant to their defence. 

post #29 of 74

Shouldn't that be Park Hyoung Shin? 

post #30 of 74

This just boggles the mind.  So the short bus designer sees a bowl of water and creates that?  Looks more like a urinal troff.  Thats some grasping at straws right there.  

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post #31 of 74
Funny how the fandroids and Apple hating crowd on c|net, Engadget and the like claim this is about "rounded rectangles" when it seems to be more about software than anything else. If Samsung hadn't made TouchWiz look and act so much like iOS we might not be here right now. I do think some of their hardware mimicked Apple too but it's certainly about more than rounded rectangles.

http://allthingsd.com/20120810/breaking-apple-offered-to-license-its-patents-to-samsung-for-30-per-smartphone-40-per-tablet/
post #32 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I am searching for a funny comment about the design coming from a bowl of water but I simply can't ... Lies really are not funny I guess.

Actually, when the Sammy phone (or the original iPhone) is placed on a flat surface -- it does resemble a meniscus... the surface of water when you slowly overfill a glass of water -- where the surface is perfectly flat, but the edges curve downward to touch the glass.

The "bowl of water" could be a language difference... Like "smooth" sales.

It does sound funny, though.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 8/11/12 at 4:23am
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post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Uh oh, the half empty, half filled water.  Hack psychologists use that.

I think that an engineer is going to use a bowl that is filled with water because water is cheap enough.

But I am still trying to figure out why they simply just say that from the back of the phone it looks very much like the back of an iPhone 1st gen,  only a lot thicker.

One thing about Apple product designs that become big sellers is that they are usually iconic, just like the early Motorola handsets that first came out were iconic during the 70's.  Boy did everyone that had one seem cool and important.  

What I laugh about are the people that use cell phones to look like they are doing some important business deal, when in fact, all they are really doing is find out if they can hear someone through the bad cell connection.

Yeah! The "iconic" expression of the iPhone is best illustrated by a neighbor's daughter, who when asked what kind of cell phone she wanted, said: "the one that [pinch zoom gesture]".
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #34 of 74
Apple's point of view "The F700 does bot exist!"
post #35 of 74

I struggle to understand the strategy Samsung is employing here.

 

Is there some advantage to be gained by throwing the case? Perhaps they're looking for more time to present a better one?

 

 

 
post #36 of 74

I think this is not fair to use pictures of Galaxy S vs Iphone 3G which were modified (like for tabs !)

 

Here is a real picture of the 2 devices on the main screen (and not in App Drawer for the Galaxy S) :

 

 

700

 

The design of the Galaxy S reminds the F700, but there is no doubt that they try to be closer than the Iphone 3G. 

However, how a customer can make a mistake between the 2 devices ?? 

 

Samsung deserve to be punished (not in billion of dollars in my opinion), but that could be great, first of all, to see rules in terms of patent modified ! This system is broken since a long time now !

post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Apple's point of view "The F700 does bot exist!"

 

I read somewhere that Apple, in one of its approved iPhone patents, cited the F700 as prior art...  thus admitting it exists and using the patent to illustrate how the iPhone differentiates itself from the F700...  And, the Judge, therefore, considers it not to be relevant to this case.

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvri View Post

I think this is not fair to use pictures of Galaxy S vs Iphone 3G which were modified (like for tabs !)

 

Here is a real picture of the 2 devices on the main screen (and not in App Drawer for the Galaxy S) :

 

 

700

 

The design of the Galaxy S reminds the F700, but there is no doubt that they try to be closer than the Iphone 3G. 

However, how a customer can make a mistake between the 2 devices ?? 

 

Samsung deserve to be punished (not in billion of dollars in my opinion), but that could be great, first of all, to see rules in terms of patent modified ! This system is broken since a long time now !

 

Well seeing as how the "app drawer" view was how Samsung represented the Galaxy S in their marketing materials, then it really is quite relevant.

 

I notice that they have now changed that view, probably reacting to fanboy comments as they are wont to do.

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post #39 of 74
Originally Posted by jcallows View Post
she got her inspiration after hitting her head on a toilet bowl

 

Samsung manages to invent (steal) a flux capacitor, goes back in time and kills Steve Jobs before he creates Apple, and then heads back to the future only to find that the movie interpretation of higher dimensional theory is now long outdated and they're just right back where they started, sans stolen Iranian plutonium.

 

Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
Apple's point of view "The F700 does bot exist!"

 

Trolls' point of view: this is the best (only) argument we have left. 

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post #40 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogCowabunga View Post

Was the bowl of water half empty or half full?

 

The bowl is always full...  It's just half full/empty of water -- the other half is full of air.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvri View Post

I think this is not fair to use pictures of Galaxy S vs Iphone 3G which were modified (like for tabs !)

 

Here is a real picture of the 2 devices on the main screen (and not in App Drawer for the Galaxy S) :

 

 

700

 

The design of the Galaxy S reminds the F700, but there is no doubt that they try to be closer than the Iphone 3G. 

However, how a customer can make a mistake between the 2 devices ?? 

 

Samsung deserve to be punished (not in billion of dollars in my opinion), but that could be great, first of all, to see rules in terms of patent modified ! This system is broken since a long time now !

 

The other main contention point here is how Samsung phones are displayed in-store.  Surely human-interaction plays into this, but most of the Android phones I've seen in Best Buy have the App Drawer open...  I have to assume this is an instruction from Samsung on how to best display their product (since all other companies typically include this kind of info with their products).  Something I'm sure we'll hear discussed in this case at some point.

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