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Apple's new mini Dock Connector to feature 9-pin, orientation independent design - sources - Page 3

post #81 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Yes but in case he didn't read that thread, the reason MagSafe would be bad for the phone connector is that magnets can interfere w/audio.  As far as who says it isn't, the Thunderbolt spec.  It calls for 20 pins.
I don't think it needs to be all 20 pins it's only for charging and data transmission. It could even use USB protocol over TB.
Quote:
A 4th option (or tweak on #2) is that it is USB3x2.  Let's say that since the pin counts match, it might be USB3, just w/a different connector.  What if the pins being on each side to allow for it to be inserted either way all function when it is inserted?  The 9th pin would not be doubled, but it's possible they could maybe push extra power beyond spec this way for faster charging, maybe faster data.  I'm probably wrong for several technical reasons, but it's a fun idea.  If the edge was forming the ground pin, it might not matter that it wasn't duplicated.

I like the out of the box thinking but I don't think it's feasible nor necessary. The bandwidth of the wire is not the reason the data transfer is slow and by the time the bottlenecks exceed USB 3.0 speeds in the iPhone we'll probably be well past USB 4.0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

Like the adapter, hate headphones being on the bottom of the phone.

Why would you want them elsewhere? I love the headphones on the bottom. I've been wanting this since the Touch first got it. No more cable getting in the way or my display or camera lens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanJobs View Post

Can someone explain to me why they went back to the "T" shaped design?
Have you tried to yank the L-shaped connector out? With the wire parallel to the lock it can still pull your machine. Purhaps not all the way but it doesn't seem like a good design even though it looks better. Being perpendicular means it can't yank on your system more than the magnetic attraction allows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

It's from January, but that is all addressed here:  http://www.anandtech.com/show/5425/why-thunderbolt-wont-come-to-the-iphone-anytime-soon

The problem with that article is that it doesn't address how other devices connect to Thunderbolt. There has to be an Intel-based system with TB but you can connect to cameras, displays, external drives, etc. and non of them are running Intel CPUs in them. This means that Apple could have the same local controller on their devices that would convert the signal appropriately if it's connected to a Mac or a WinPC with Intel.

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post #82 of 108
I'm not familiar with the new Air or MBPR, is this the same connector that is used on them?
post #83 of 108
Originally Posted by justmeblue View Post
I'm not familiar with the new Air or MBPR, is this the same connector that is used on them?

 

Not in the slightest. This isn't MagSafe 2; this is Dock Connector 2, which is entirely new.  

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #84 of 108

How does the 9th pin work, and it's position would have to mean there was another one on the opposite side, adn that the next iOS devices would have two 9pin contacts... I don't get that last pin at all tbh.

post #85 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post

How does the 9th pin work, and it's position would have to mean there was another one on the opposite side, adn that the next iOS devices would have two 9pin contacts... I don't get that last pin at all tbh.

It depends on what you mean by "other side."

Scenario one: Cable is simple. The connector would have, from left to right 12345678 and underneath would have 12345678 without rotating the connector 180°. If you were to rotate the connector 180° it would then 87654321 on top and 87654321 underneath. This basically means that the same piece of metal is exposed on the top and bottom. It also means the iPhone needs to intelligently determine which way it's plugged in.

Scenario two: Cable is a little complex. The connector would have, from left to right 12345678 and underneath 87654321. When you rotate the connector the pins are still all lined up as 12345678. It's basically what a rollover cable is to ethernet.

Note that in either scenario the phone doesn't need to have connectors on both side of the plug for it to work. it only needs to connect to the pins once to make a connection. As for the 9th pin, that's the metal contact on the outside. This would most assuredly be the ground (for the power connectors). This is a good design, like in some countries's outlets, because it means the ground occurs first thus adding a level of safety as you plug it in.



edit: Messed up the pinout for the 2nd scenario.
Edited by SolipsismX - 8/14/12 at 7:49am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #86 of 108

No, I get that first part, that the software maps whatever physical pin is virtual pin #1 and so on, my question about the 9th pnin, is that First off how does it work at all? it's plastic, not metal, and second off it's in such a strange position, that it would (seemingly) have to be mappeed independently of the other pins, because of it's location.

post #87 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

It's to stop Samsung from copying the plug...


Samsung will come out with this plug when the galaxy s4 comes out.

post #88 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Just what society needs another idiot proof connector, are people that stupid they do not know how to plug something in, I know people still have problem plug in two prong power cords into the wall with on prong bigger, they have not figure out how to rotate it 180 degrees.

It's not about idiot proofing, it's about flexibility.

post #89 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post

No, I get that first part, that the software maps whatever physical pin is virtual pin #1 and so on, my question about the 9th pnin, is that First off how does it work at all? it's plastic, not metal, and second off it's in such a strange position, that it would (seemingly) have to be mappeed independently of the other pins, because of it's location.

1) It is unique compared to the other pins but that doesn't invalidate its purpose. It's also metal as the image clearly shows.





2) I'm not sure what you mean by virtual pin as they are all physical pins. The only variance is that one side of pins might not be used at any given time depending on the rotation.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #90 of 108

That's what Apple's counting on, more proof that they copy :)

post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I can't remember if anyone else picked it up, but I've been calling this one Dock Connector 2 already. Anyone think that's a valid name?

 

Don't dare start on that "the new Dock Connector" crap.

 

😝

Myself I call it the dock connector and nothing else.

An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #92 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What about that faster Samsung NAND? And why the heck has Apple deigned to keep such slow NAND in their devices?!

It's partly to do with SSD controllers utilising RAID 0 across the many NAND chips in the SSDs, so reads/writes occur to the (individually slow) NAND chips simultaneously. iOS devices have a maximum of two NAND chips (16GB devices have one chip), so the RAID 0 only doubles the speed. I think it's possible the hardware encryption maxes out at ~20MB/sec too.

So in other words, the iPhone 6/5/4SL wouldn't gain any advantage from USB 3. Apple are unlikely to use USB 3 just for the hell of it, as the USB 3 chips are much less tested, and much more power hungry than their power-sipping USB 2 equivalents. Also, it most certainly won't have Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is an extension of the PCI-E bus, which iOS devices don't have anything remotely akin to. It might be possible to emulate the PCI-E standard in software, but it'd be very slow and thus pretty much pointless as a USB 2 replacement. Until NAND speed increases a fair bit, even USB 2 won't be saturated.

If this connector is real, I think it'll be 17 pin, not 8. If it is just 8, there'd be a real struggle to keep essential features like analog audio out/accessory detection along with power and USB. However, if all the communication was done over USB, then you could use as little as 4 pins. USB comms would make simple accessories like speaker docks much more complex though, as they'd need USB chipsets and analog to digital converters that're currently in the phone itself.

Oh also, the picture appears to show a metal ring around the white plastic area the contacts sit on. This indicates to me that the connector is fake, as each time you inserted the connector, the iOS device's own pins would get shorted by the metal ring, and it'd cause additional wear too.
post #93 of 108

Although some people have illnesses, hunger, death and the like, I am so goddamn frustrated by the orientation requirement on Apple and other cords.  Sometimes I think life isn't worth living this way.

post #94 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

USB3 is a 9-pin standard...

So is FireWire 800.

post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) It is unique compared to the other pins but that doesn't invalidate its purpose. It's also metal as the image clearly shows.
1000
2) I'm not sure what you mean by virtual pin as they are all physical pins. The only variance is that one side of pins might not be used at any given time depending on the rotation.

 

I can't see it, maybe I'm not looking hard enoujgh *maximizes picture* and by virtual pin, I mean that physical pin 1 is virtual pin 1 if it's it's connected "right side up" (these terms are very vague) and when "upside down" pin 9 becomes pin 1 to the driver connecting it to the computer.
 
 
Unless of course, Apple's just reversing the actual pin layout, and then I just gave up a decent idea for nothing. :/
post #96 of 108
Originally Posted by bwik View Post
Although some people have illnesses, hunger, death and the like, I am so goddamn frustrated by the orientation requirement on Apple and other cords.  Sometimes I think life isn't worth living this way.

 

A human being can be outraged about more than one thing at once. Yes, it's probably insignificant in comparison to larger events elsewhere in the world, but this is AppleInsider, not LargereventselsewhereintheworldInsider.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Just what society needs another idiot proof connector, are people that stupid they do not know how to plug something in, I know people still have problem plug in two prong power cords into the wall with on prong bigger, they have not figure out how to rotate it 180 degrees.

I usually plug in my iPhone just before I go to bed, when it's pitch-black. Orientation-independent chargers would make life a lot easier.

post #98 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusj0015 View Post

I can't see it, maybe I'm not looking hard enoujgh *maximizes picture* and by virtual pin, I mean that physical pin 1 is virtual pin 1 if it's it's connected "right side up" (these terms are very vague) and when "upside down" pin 9 becomes pin 1 to the driver connecting it to the computer.
 
 
Unless of course, Apple's just reversing the actual pin layout, and then I just gave up a decent idea for nothing. :/

Are you having a laugh? You honestly can't see how the number 9 on the image pointing to the metal connector that wraps around the connector?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


 

Like the orientation independent T-shaped MagSafe 2 adapter that Apple introduced in June to replace the first-generation L-shaped adapters, the company's new Dock Connector will help facilitate slimmer, more compact handheld designs that consumers can quickly plug in and charge without the hassle of having to orient the plug in the correct direction when attaching a cable.
 

Wait a minute - wasn't the original Magnetic power adapter on Macbook Pros T-Shaped and could be inserted either way (I had one on the first MbookPro i got)? Then the second generation was L-Shaped (on my current MbookPro), which has a lower profile, but blocks ports if it's inserted in the reverse orientation. Then Apple switched back to T-Shape (with some improvements) for the 3rd iteration.

 

Why is Appleinsider trying to ignore the first generation T-Shaped adapter? Because it shows Apple made a mistake with the L-Shape and that isn't allowed on AI?

 

Also, saying the new iPhone plug and Magsafe Adaptors are "orientation independent" is not true - they both only function in 2 different orientations, therefore they are dependent on one of 2 orientations. If they were square, they'd function in 4 orientations, and if they were round and designed depth-oriented like headphone jacks, etc, they'd be orientation independent because it wouldn't matter how you stuck them in.  

post #100 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg View Post

Oh also, the picture appears to show a metal ring around the white plastic area the contacts sit on. This indicates to me that the connector is fake, as each time you inserted the connector, the iOS device's own pins would get shorted by the metal ring, and it'd cause additional wear too.

Good post. Thanks. Nice observation of the metal on the leading edge of the plug. Perhaps this is a fake but somehow I doubt it. It would be fairly difficult to build such a tiny precise fake. The site that published it has posted some other seemingly credible info as if they have an inside source in Asia someplace.

 

After examination of the original photos from the previous thread I noticed there is also a recess on the side of the plug which presumably snaps into a retaining spring of some sort to keep the connector secure. When the plug is beginning to be inserted it pushes the spring open which could also retract the pins from being shorted and once the plug is far enough in, the spring is released into the recess and the pins are exposed to the contact points. The leading metal ring actually prevents wear on the plug itself. Just a hypothesis, although it does seem overly complicated. It is just one possibility that may explain your very valid concern about the metal ring around the plug. 

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post #101 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Just out of interest, have you tried Signal Scope Pro?  It has proven very useful to me.

I've got all of their stuff too. There's a lot of good apps in this field. For design work there are a lot of apps as well that I've got, and a lot that I don't. Truth is that all of these, even when you add the plug-ins into the mix, are so cheap when compared to my Mac software, and downright ridulous when compared to my professional testing hardware, that the only thing that prevents me from buying even more, it the confusion from learning all of this software, and the space on my devices.
post #102 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It depends on what you mean by "other side."
Scenario one: Cable is simple. The connector would have, from left to right 12345678 and underneath would have 12345678 without rotating the connector 180°. If you were to rotate the connector 180° it would then 87654321 on top and 87654321 underneath. This basically means that the same piece of metal is exposed on the top and bottom. It also means the iPhone needs to intelligently determine which way it's plugged in.
Scenario two: Cable is a little complex. The connector would have, from left to right 12345678 and underneath 12345678. When you rotate the connector the pins are still all lined up as 12345678. It's basically what a rollover cable is to ethernet.
Note that in either scenario the phone doesn't need to have connectors on both side of the plug for it to work. it only needs to connect to the pins once to make a connection. As for the 9th pin, that's the metal contact on the outside. This would most assuredly be the ground (for the power connectors). This is a good design, like in some countries's outlets, because it means the ground occurs first thus adding a level of safety as you plug it in.

Exactly what I'm thinking.. I hope it's true too. Eight pins plus an outside shield/ground is still pretty good, depending on what they give us to work with. Five isn't so good.
post #103 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

It's all about speed and simplicity. And to be honest having poor eyesight may also hinder to plug the iDevice connector correctly at the first attempt. So if I have to plugin my iPhone I usually have to put on my glasses first.

 

For my part I appreciate the double sided connector.

When plugging it in at night before going to bed with a dark room it's super annoying that you can't tell if it isn't going in because it's flipped or because you're slightly off.  On the flip side I have several phone accessories I will no longer be able to use now if I get the iPhone 5, some of which can't be replaced because they were special deals on obscure items.  Sadly it's making me consider the iPhone 4S at the reduced price.

post #104 of 108
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post
On the flip side I have several phone accessories I will no longer be able to use now if I get the 6th iPhone, some of which can't be replaced because they were special deals on obscure items.

 

Why do you think the adapter won't work with them?

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #105 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

Not only is the NAND slow, it's also less reliable than SSD NAND. One of the reasons Apple is thought to have bought Anobit is that they have technology to increase the endurance of cheap NAND through controller logic.

Adding to Gazoobee's comment about Apple not using cheap NAND their purchase of Anobit is an interesting one because endurance has been a problem for both 1) higher performance NAND, and 2) more compact NAND. Now I have not heard of any issues with Apple's NAND endurance so I have to think that their interest in Anobit is to allow them to push the size and speed envelope while still maintaining acceptable NAND write longevity.

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post #106 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Yes but in case he didn't read that thread, the reason MagSafe would be bad for the phone connector is that magnets can interfere w/audio.

 

The reason MagSafe would be bad for the phone connector is that magnets can erase the magnetic strip on the credit cards in your pocket.

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post #107 of 108

1. Whenever a site gets an accurate photo of any new Apple part or device Apple immediately demands they be taken down. Lawyers are launched at whoever uses them. Hasn't happened with any of the supposed new iPhone parts or these new dock photos. That means they're very likely either fake or deliberate Apple disinformation. Same for the shots of supposed new iPhone back shell and motherboard.

 

2. Going from a 30-pin to 19-pin dock connector is easy for both Apple and 3rd party accessories makers, just eliminate the pins for Firewire and obsolete iPod hardware. A 19-pin dock makes sense, a 9-pin dock does not (accessory makers would have to totally retool and redesign their add-ons, much more hardware and software/firmware required). Totally different accessory architecture. More complex and expensive to make compatible accessories. Again this means these 9-pin shots are likely fake.

 

3. References in iOS 6 files to 9-pin dock are likely either mistaken or deliberate Apple misinformation. They've been putting all sorts of fake model numbers and stuff in OS files for a while now, this could easily be more of that.

 

It is very unlikely these photos and the 9-pin dock connector are for real. You've been punked. Again.

post #108 of 108

Originally Posted by dshan View Post
1. Whenever a site gets an accurate photo of any new Apple part or device Apple immediately demands they be taken down. Lawyers are launched at whoever uses them.

 

2. Going from a 30-pin to 19-pin dock connector is easy for both Apple and 3rd party accessories makers, just eliminate the pins for Firewire and obsolete iPod hardware. A 19-pin dock makes sense, a 9-pin dock does not (accessory makers would have to totally retool and redesign their add-ons, much more hardware and software/firmware required). Totally different accessory architecture. More complex and expensive to make compatible accessories. Again this means these 9-pin shots are likely fake.

 

3. References in iOS 6 files to 9-pin dock are likely either mistaken or deliberate Apple misinformation. They've been putting all sorts of fake model numbers and stuff in OS files for a while now, this could easily be more of that.

 

It is very unlikely these photos and the 9-pin dock connector are for real. You've been punked. Again.

 

1. This hasn't happened in over three years. Apple does not do this anymore. It instantly legitimizes everything that we see before the takedown. They know better than to do that. Dozens upon dozens of pictures have been posted since Apple stopped doing that that have been proven to be real.

 

2. Why would Apple care at all about third parties? They're going to do what is best for them and anyone else can build stuff they want if they want.

 

3. Or they're legitimate. They only put fake model numbers in one version once.

 

Sounds to me like they're all legit.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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