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AT&T defends plan to block 3G FaceTime for non-Mobile Share customers - Page 2

post #41 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Honestly, T-Mobile rocks more and more every day. I have unlimited everything for $50 a month with no contract. If you factor in the subsidized cost of an unlocked iPhone into the works, that is less than an additional $20 a month carried over the two years of a contract. 


I'm thinking the same.  TMobile & Sprint with unlimited data & cheaper plans.   Are their networks really that bad??

post #42 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

 

Unfortunately, Apple knows the financial future of technology companies rests upon not only the United States of America and Europe but on BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) as well.  Purchasing Sprint would actually do very little for Apple although I understand your sentiment.

 

I should add that we cut the cable (aka "cut the cord") mere days before Apple added Hulu Plus to AppleTV (3rd generation) and I haven't looked back.  Netflix has a significant catalog of television and movies.  We also have a Roku 2 XS for Amazon Prime and UFC.  Although I could use AirPlay from our Macs, the quality isn't sufficient for a live streaming event as yet; I suspect 802.11ac will be required for seamwless live streaming from Mac to television via AirPlay.  We have poor reception of over-the-air broadcast television as we are nested in a valley.   We rent videos from Redbox.

 

I encourage everyone to at least attempt to cut the cable for a few days.  If you can pass a psychological barrier of one month then you will likely never return.  Imagine what you can do with an extra $100 per month!

 

Good point about Apple not buying Sprint...Apple should concentrate on China (BRIC's).

 

I too have cut the cord for the past 4 years and also live in a valley with no over-the-air reception. I rent from Redbox and have had Netflix in the past. Having said that, I do miss watching the golf, Formula One, and tennis.

 

Trying to watch things online is a bit fragmented, although I agree it can be done. I watched a CNN Rep. Primary Debate and halfway thru it stopped and told me to watch the rest on TV. Fareed Zakaria's GPS (one of the best programs on TV) was a video podcast for about a year then stopped. PBS News Hour is shown online a day after the broadcast.

 

But I take your point it is awfully hard to go back to paying a $100 mo. for TV. Especially with all the crap channels and the incessant commercials! Ugh!

 

Enjoyed your comments on the Cable industry. :)


Edited by christopher126 - 8/22/12 at 8:42am
post #43 of 141

Since AT&T hasn't seen fit to roll out, or even PLAN to roll out, LTE coverage where I live (Portland, OR), and now are putting all kinds of restrictions on my cell-phone plan (which I've had with them since the first iPhone), I'm interpreting all of this as they are BEGGING me to jump to Verizon when the iPhone 5 comes out!  I already dumped them when I got the new iPad (which, btw..I can tether from without hassle).  I guess moving my entire families phones to Verizon is the next move.
 

post #44 of 141
Fwiw - facetime over a 3g network would be seriously brutal. If you guys suffering with 3/4g complain about bandwidth now... Imagine your internet speeds getting worse than that when people add in their facetime calls.

Facetime over WiFi is barely decent even with a solid 10mbps connection. Doing facetime at 1-4mbps... ATT is doing us a favor.

Don't get me wrong, I think ATT should just say go ahead... But everyone else will pay dearly with really bad internet connectivity.
post #45 of 141
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post
But everyone else will pay dearly with really bad internet connectivity.

 

… Then that's AT&T's problem.

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post #46 of 141
So does this mean if I bring my own iPhone not purchased or subsidized by ATT that FaceTime would work over cellular with an unlimited contract? Seems that the logic used in the AT&T post would require it.
post #47 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98 View Post

 

I doubt T-Mobile will give me 45mbs as I am I getting on my iPad 3.

With LTE-A that T-Mobile is rolling out next year (which by the way, LTE chips support LTE-A) can reach speeds of up to 1 Gbps [WHOOOOO]!

post #48 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

I think ATT and Verizon's plans are diabolical. These shared plans are almost insultingly expensive. I know they have to get money to build an infrastructure that has insatiable demands but, wow. I wish there was some way to pool resources so that they weren't all building their own infrastructure. And to not allow FaceTime on it. The very occasional FaceTime user isn't what's using up the bandwidth.

 

But on that note, c'mon over to Sprint, folks. I love their rates and their customer service has gotten superb. Call quality is great and I've had maybe 2 dropped calls in a dozen years. Data speeds in the DC area were awesome for the pre-iPhone/Android era but *mostly* poor now. I can stream music and use maps fine in even the most rural places but browsing can be weak at times. You probably won't be able to use FaceTime at all lol.gif right now but when LTE finally comes to your area you won't be charged extra for it.

 

[Disclaimer: I did work at Sprint 12 years ago but had nothing to do with wireless and am not a shill for them. I. I'm using this plan and got a bit of a discount through this referral which is an open secret. Mods - feel free to redact this portion if you find this seems too much like advertising.]

 

Actually, given the glacial pace of AT&T's LTE network deployment I must question their resolve to building their own infrastructure.

 

Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Kansas City, San Antonio and Waco already have Sprint LTE.  Apparently, Sprint expects to cover nearly 200 million potential subscribers by the end of 2014.

 

According to the American Customer Satisfaction Index, Sprint is the most improved company in customer satisfaction, across all industries, over the last three years.

 
 
post #49 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

Verizon hasn't said anything specifically about Facetime over Cellular at this point. They are pushing customers to towards their everything plans as well, but the difference is that they are doing it at the time of upgrade. Example: If you are due for an upgrade and you want the phone you're upgrading to to be subsidized, then you have to give up your unlimited plan in favor of one of their everything plans. But, If you buy your phone at the full unsubsidized price, you can keep your unlimited plan. If you don't upgrade then you keep your same plan. While this sucks ass too, it makes more sense to me as at least they're doing it at a time when essentially you're starting a new contract. AT&T is also pushing it's clients towards their everything plans, and even though they're not forcing you, they're doing it by limiting the function of your phone over their network.....Pretty shitty...

 

I read somewhere else Verizon won't block FaceTime because of a Net Neutrality Agreement. Either way, when the new iPhone comes out, I'm switching to either Sprint or Verizon. I'm done with AT&T. Not only because of this FaceTime blocking crap, AT&T's LTE network is pretty limited compared to Verizon. I would imagine AT&T will be losing a ton of customers over this. I hope a lawsuit is filed soon or the FCC gets involved. I don't see how this can be legal.  

post #50 of 141

Virtually every internet-enabled app on the iPhone competes with AT&T services.

Q: So what makes FaceTime so special?

(A: nothing!)

 

AT&T is making a switch to Verizon look very easy, inexpensive and very worthwhile.

post #51 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

FaceTime is not that big of a deal. Most people don't use it at all or if they do it is usually on WiFi. If you and the person you usually FaceTime with download Skype, you can use that to video chat when there is no WiFi available....or just pay the premium and don't worry about it. That is what AT&T wants you to do. Pay the premium and then rarely use FaaceTime. The perfect profit generation machine.hmm2.gif

 

People don't use it because they don't know if they can.

It's bad enough that you need to know they have an iPhone 4 or better,

but then you specifically need to know that they've got wi-fi access... WTF?

 

It's not going to be widely used until it can be used anywhere by a majority.

Right now, it's not a real option, and that's the carriers' fault.

post #52 of 141
Just go here for net neutrality.

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints
post #53 of 141

Well then Apple should just let people download the FaceTime app, like they would Skype or ooVoo, the AT&T+Apple exclusive contract is over, I think that Apple has a little more freedom to make AT&T mad now.

 

 


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post #54 of 141

AT & T's argument is lame.  Data is data... the call is Zeros and Ones, the apps use Zeros and Ones, FaceTime uses Zeros and Ones.  C'mon... the cell companies (Cable companies too; Voice, Internet and Television are all Zeros and Ones) are ripping the consumer off.  Moreover, if one purchases their own device.... AT & T still charges full freight.  Any device, using any app, on any network at any time for a flat fee.  Get it and be vocal!!!!

post #55 of 141

I pay $125 (with taxes) now for two iphones, 550min family talk, and 2GB/m x2. With this new plan I would have to pay $150 + taxes. AT&T wants to shove a useless texting plan down our throats because it "lost" revenue after Apple allowed Messages to bypass their SMS system. If their service was getting noticeably better, perhaps they could have an argument for this price hike, but their service remains bad, FAIL!

post #56 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

 

Here in Louisville the data speeds are completely pathetic.  Speed test just gave me rates of 0.02Mbps down and 0.46 Mbps up with 1080ms ping on my iPhone 4S.  Re-test gave me even worse upload speeds.  Sure it's unlimited, but it's slow as crap.  This download speed is the worst I have ever seen on it actually.  It doesn't like being downtown.  I'm on that same plan, which was nice as I got to pay what I was paying when we had our LG Lotus phones and not feel the extra $10/phone smartphone fee.  Add $20 for the phones, subtract $20 from the plan cost.  I have poor quality as far as dropped calls and calls getting garbled.  We just got these phones in Feb, so I'll be eligible for new phones right around the time Apple releases the 2013 iPhone.  We'll see where the carriers are by then as far as LTE goes and how the pre-paid market is doing.  Love my phone, frustrated by the service, but I know I will pay even more if I go to Verizon or AT&T.

 

I have excellent news for you!  Many core technologies for smartphones will reach an important milestone in 2013 including: 
 
  • Improved backhaul for carriers (not just the signals like Verizon has but expanded capacity),
  • Ubiquity of 28 nm CMOS processes as well (15%-30% improved battery life for some functions, e.g. Wi-Fi) (HTC One X aren't all 28nm for example)
  • 4G LTE Advanced solutions 
  • 802.11ac Wi-Fi (up to 1300 Mbps on 5GHz and 450 Mbps on 2.4GHz)
  • PowerVR Series 6 (Rogue) GPU (20x better performance and 5x more efficient than current GPUs) and,
  • ARM Cortex A15 MPCore CPU (5x better performance than current CPUs)
 
post #57 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus009 View Post

People don't use it because they don't know if they can.
It's bad enough that you need to know they have an iPhone 4 or better,
but then you specifically need to know that they've got wi-fi access... WTF?

It's not going to be widely used until it can be used anywhere by a majority.
Right now, it's not a real option, and that's the carriers' fault.

I don't think any of your concerns are really issues at all.

First off, in my experience most people don't want to video chat except possibly with relatives and only then on rare occasion.

If you want to video chat more than likely you know the other person and know what kind of phone they have as it is probably your spouse.

We have had video chat on Skype for years. The current version works really well for video, but it is tiresome to hold the smartphone in position for very long and a regular audio only call is much more relaxed especially for extended time.

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post #58 of 141
Fine. I'll just use Tango and my grandfathered unlimited data plan. It works just as well as FaceTime, and over cellular data networks, and is compatible with Android users.
post #59 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

 

Actually, given the glacial pace of AT&T's LTE network deployment I must question their resolve to building their own infrastructure.

 

Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Kansas City, San Antonio and Waco already have Sprint LTE.  Apparently, Sprint expects to cover nearly 200 million potential subscribers by the end of 2014.

 

According to the American Customer Satisfaction Index, Sprint is the most improved company in customer satisfaction, across all industries, over the last three years.

 
 

As posted elsewhere:

 

 

  • …Sprints network, right?
  • No true 4G, right. 
  • Slow as hell, right?*
  • No simultaneous voice and cellular data, right?

3G and 4G Wireless Speed Showdown: Which Networks Are Fastest?

post #60 of 141
Well here's a thought, what about facetime over the so called 4G or LTE network? There's no mention of blocking that. It would suck if those that own the new iPhone were able to facetime over the network whilst blocking those still on 3G only.
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post #61 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerstalker View Post

.

As far as this goes, whoever this guy at AT&T is he is an idiot.  How does the facetime feature being built into the phone have anythign to do with this. 

Unfortunately no he is not an idiot. Legally he is correct.

The rules in question only say that carriers can't block 3rd party functions that copy carrier native ones. For example they can't block IMessages going over 3G/4G because it copies SMS/MMS. But if all the apps are 3rd party like Skype and FaceTime they can legally do what they want since the issue isn't cobbling said 3rd party apps to force folks to use the carriers offering and likely pay more for it.

The idiot in this case is the person that tried to use these rules which don't apply. The applicable argument is that data is data and the carriers shouldn't be allowed to nitpick what we paying customers can do with our data so long as we agree to paying the charges, deal with their legally allowed speed throttling etc.

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post #62 of 141

You are right

 

If FaceTime could do audio only, which would be easier on the network, then it would be Clear that AT&T blocked similar service.

My Guess is that Apple never offer this iChat Feature because of the talk they had with AT&T before the first iPhone.

 

It is inevitable that one day, Cellular provider will become Internet provider and VOiP will get real Quality of Service (QOS), comparable, i hope to current voice technology.

 

BUT, as a result, they will loose all the money they make on voice, and SMS, and since they hate making less money, the will rise the price of the MB...

 

So at the end, we will have what we want but will pay a lot more for it.

post #63 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post

It could be argued that having Facetime available to all subscribers, including those who remain on the current minute/data plans, would encourage people to lower the minutes portion of their plan. If that is the case it could also be argued that AT&T is blocking its usage to keep it from competing with a similar service that they offer. I don't know how well it would stand up but I see the two as competing services, voice communication and video communication can still be boiled down to communication.

Now that is a way to attempt to argue within the quoted rules, pity the initial case wasn't as smart and went with just focusing on Skype etc

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post #64 of 141
With the iPhone available with many carriers, time to jump ship from AT&T. It's all about profit and exec. salary rather than improving the customer experience. Anyone know the innovation example, a washing machine that also washes potatoes. An innovative company would have invented one that does it all. Time for Apple to become a carrier and blow these MOJOS out of the water. RIM couldn't keep up, Nokia hanging by a thread, Samsung had to copy and now the time is right to morph into a carrier. Jobs would have thought of it, make it all VOIP. Snooze, you lose.
post #65 of 141
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
With Verizon they allow you to keep your current plan until you decide to upgrade your phone. Then you have no choice but to move ot the Share Everything Plan.

 

Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.


In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.

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post #66 of 141
Makes me think of Apple not allowing apps that have the same function as built in apps.

Curious that the (very) Appleionado doesn't grasp that...
post #67 of 141
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
Makes me think of Apple not allowing apps that have the same function as built in apps.

 

Then maybe reading the article will make you think something different (correct).

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post #68 of 141

The problem with you AT&T, is that, you don't understand how business works. Companies like Apple and others are trying to provide customers with innovative products and services. You on the other hand are trying to take advantage of loop holes within the law system to rip off customers pockets.

 

AT&T, it doesn't matter that what you are doing is within the law, IT PISSES CUSTOMERS OFF!!

YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVING PEOPLE A REASON (FEEDING THEIR DESIRE) TO USE OTHER CARRIERS. YOU ARE GIVING T-MOBILE AND SPRINT FREE ADVERTISING. You are giving ME (your customer for years) many reasons to change carrier.

 

On the long run you will see that customers care more about how much they pay than for how much coverage you have, just because you are trying to limit these services like Facetime through 3G.

post #69 of 141

What does the app have to do with pushing people to sign up for there MORE EXPENSIVE shared CRAP! Why does changing the plan to the shared plan suddenly make it OK to use FaceTime?

There are millions of apps out there, does that mean every time I put an app on my iPhone I have to change my plan?

What actually changes? 

I'll tell you, absolutely NOTHING!!

AT&T B.S.!!!!

post #70 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleJim View Post

With the iPhone available with many carriers, time to jump ship from AT&T. It's all about profit and exec. salary rather than improving the customer experience. Anyone know the innovation example, a washing machine that also washes potatoes. An innovative company would have invented one that does it all. Time for Apple to become a carrier and blow these MOJOS out of the water. RIM couldn't keep up, Nokia hanging by a thread, Samsung had to copy and now the time is right to morph into a carrier. Jobs would have thought of it, make it all VOIP. Snooze, you lose.

Agree 100%

post #71 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.


In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.

 

Just did exactly that last weekend .

Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.

45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.

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post #72 of 141
Originally Posted by Rind View Post
Just did exactly that last weekend .

Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.

45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.

 

For three iPhones, unlimited talk, text (which we will never use for any reason), and 2GB data TOTAL, Verizon would charge us $200 a month.

 

It's $120 a month for unlimited talk, text, and 6GB data TOTAL (2GB each) on Straight Talk.

 

And more than that, Straight Talk with infinity/infinity/6GB is LESS MONEY than our current Verizon plan, 1000/250/0GB!

 

We can no longer justify staying with those morons.

 

Here's my list of concerns, though…

 

Network: It's AT&T, right? Or do they supplement with other GSM providers, too? What sort of coverage/quality/dropped calls?

Data: It works on an iPhone, right? At what speeds? I know they don't have LTE access yet and we won't be able to use LTE on our LTE iPhones, sure, but is it at least HSPA+? There's probably no HSPA+ service through AT&T where we live though, anyway… 

 

Can other users thereof comment specifically on that? I know jragosta has been able to do it, but he had trouble that I forget about.

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post #73 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad 68030 View Post

Just go here for net neutrality.
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

 

I just posted a complaint stating something like this:

 

"AT&T is forcing me to buy a more expensive plan to use FaceTime video-call service over cellular connection. AT&T is blocking FaceTime on my existing Data plan despite the fact that I pay monthly for a 3GB data allotment and only intend to use FaceTime within the limits of my plan. I believe this is a  violation of the network neutrality rules"

 

Guys, I encourage all of you to do the same.

post #74 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Jailbreaking is a time consuming pain in the ass though.  

 

Only a geek wants to spend that much time fooling around with the guts of their phone and boot-loaders and such and you have to give up on having all the latest stuff as you are always one release behind. 

 

Huh??  The jailbreak I have for 5.1.1 took less than 10 minutes and was all automated.  Did it for a friend who wanted to use a 3GS on Boost Mobile.

post #75 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

So if Facetime were a download from the app store that integrated into the phone app then we would be good to go?

Not necessarily.

Skype won the issue in part because it has or at least had, a text feature and an audio call feature both of which directly compete with AT&T offerings. That you had to download it is moot.

The key feature of FaceTime is video chatting which AT&T doesn't offer, so the rule isn't immediately applicable. that is the issue with the argument. Positioning it as an later native to making voice calls plus a data is data argument might win but 'you allow Skype' not really

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post #76 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

They don't 'believe,' eh?

Do they 'believe' in class action lawsuits? I 'believe' the time has come.

I would love for this to become a reality. The problem is that under their terms of service you cannot file a class action suit. You can only go through an arbitration service of their choosing. Personally, I find this to be the most heinous part of all of this. For U.S. customers, AT&T and basically every other carrier out there are trying to limit and remove your right to challenge them in court. This is your 7th Amendment:
Quote:
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

AT&T and all the others out there do not want to go to court with you, or even a class of you. They just want to control your data.

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post #77 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Get bent, AT&T. 
 
So you're saying you're legally allowed to block all smartphones from making calls because "the phone app is built in"? Or from using the Internet because "the browser is built in"?

Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.

That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.

And unfortunately for us it is a legit legal argument under this particular rule.

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post #78 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Kansas City, San Antonio and Waco already have Sprint LTE.  Apparently, Sprint expects to cover nearly 200 million potential subscribers by the end of 2014.

 

 

Actually they are plannig to cover 250-270M by the end of 2013 and it will also be LTE-A

post #79 of 141
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.
That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.

 

I don't understand your point about Skype in this regard, though. Could you elaborate?

 

Skype presents an even greater threat to AT&T's revenue than FaceTime ever could.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #80 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misra View Post

So does this mean if I bring my own iPhone not purchased or subsidized by ATT that FaceTime would work over cellular with an unlimited contract? Seems that the logic used in the AT&T post would require it.

Nope. Because they are blocking it based in the data plan you have, not if you got a subsidy.

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